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Old 1 Day Ago (7:50 AM).
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This is something that a lot of fans seem to want, so it's time to gather your opinions on this!

Should Hidden Machines (Like Cut, Fly, Surf ect) remain in the game? Should there be another way to cut down trees, fly, get across water and more instead of taking up a slot in your Pokémon's moveset?

Share your thoughts on Hidden Machines!
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Old 1 Day Ago (7:52 AM).
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Yes, i've made a thread about this before.

You should learn the ability then be able to use it as long as you have a pokemon capable of using the old HM in your party.
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Old 1 Day Ago (8:06 AM).
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^ This.

HM seem to be pretty useless. I mean a Water Pokemon surely must know how to swim right? Big Flying Pokemons like Pidgeot should be able to fly right? They don't even need HMs lol
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Old 21 Hours Ago (1:29 PM).
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I had already chimed in on this issue in a thread about what improvements we would like to see in future Pokémon games.

I believe there are two ways to fix the issues of HMs without disposing of them entirely:
  • The more conservative (and realistic, knowing Game Freak) way: just let Pokémon forget HMs! Originally, HMs were impossible to forget as a way to prevent the player from being stuck somewhere (teach Surf to a Pokémon, store HM03 in the PC, go to a dock in the middle of a sea route, use a TM to replace Surf with another move, save the game, slap yourself once you realize what you've done) . Now, the bag is limitless and the player doesn't store HMs anywhere anymore. Just change the trading feature so that Pokémon in your party can't be traded, and the problem doesn't exist anymore.
  • A solution that is a bit more ... "out there": create four additional move slots. The original four are the normal moves, let's call them "battle moves". The new ones are usable outside of battle and can't be used while battling, let's call them "terrain moves". Each HM teaches one battle move and one terrain move.
    Do you remember how certain moves were split in two in Gen 4 as a result of Physical/Special split? Like Hyper Beam (originally physical) became two moves: a special version (that retained the name Hyper Beam) and a physical version (Giga Impact) . Let's split each HM move in two. Each HM now teaches a "battle move" (let's call it... "Tidal wave", for instance) that is usable in battle, and a "terrain move" (Surf) that does whatever the original move did outside of battle. "Battle moves" can be forgotten using TMs or by leveling up and learning new moves, "terrain moves" can't. That way, a Pokémon can still have a full set of efficient "battle moves" while knowing all the "terrain moves" you might need.

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Old 17 Hours Ago (5:27 PM).
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Yeah, as mentioned above, it might be a unique idea if certain things were usable on land instead of just having the HMs as a thing. Or, at the very least (as mentioned above, again), Pokémon should be able to forget HM moves now that TMs are re-usable.
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Old 15 Hours Ago (7:43 PM).
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I've always felt that it should become a type or even an appearance sort of thing. I don't like having to teach Honedge how to cut branches, so as a sword, it should inherently know the attack. I just want the whole HM thing to be scrapped and replaced with a move that is basically the HM but for the current situation you're in, kind of like an action button in your typical role-playing game. Pokemon like Wailmer know Surf already due to being Water-types, Honedge knows Cut due to being a sword, Machamp knows Strength because so on, so forth. It'd make things much easier as you no longer need to go on the search for the appropriate TM, as you already most likely have a Pokemon that already knows it (such as your Water/Grass-type starter, for example).
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Old 14 Hours Ago (8:15 PM).
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Even though HMs are somewhat of a staple in the games, I think it'd make a lot more sense if there were just certain Pokemon you could surf on, fly on, could cut down trees, move boulders, etc. without said ability taking up a moveslot. If you have a Lapras, you should be able to cross bodies of water on it, no machines necessary.
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Old 14 Hours Ago (8:28 PM).
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Originally Posted by Arsonist View Post
HM seem to be pretty useless. I mean a Water Pokemon surely must know how to swim right? Big Flying Pokemons like Pidgeot should be able to fly right? They don't even need HMs lol
Originally Posted by Sopheria View Post
Even though HMs are somewhat of a staple in the games, I think it'd make a lot more sense if there were just certain Pokemon you could surf on, fly on, could cut down trees, move boulders, etc. without said ability taking up a moveslot. If you have a Lapras, you should be able to cross bodies of water on it, no machines necessary.
Seconding these. It's a bit ridiculous for a lot of Pokemon to be unable to carry out certain HM tasks that would seem like second nature to them based on their physical traits or the environment that they live in (ie. ocean Pokemon needing an HM move to swim underwater).

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Old 9 Hours Ago (1:14 AM).
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Though some obstacle serve a purpose to reach certain place and certain obstacle just sit there to block an item next to it. I think it's time to consider to keep keyrole HM and remove/delete HM which does little purpose (shortcuts or any obstacle that have little purpose or a very little obstacle that required certain HM) this way it doesn't eat move slot and serves more important than just mere move slot for 0 purpose.

I think
- Pokemon with sharp edge could just cut anything
- Muscular pokemon can do rock smash or strength (move boulder)
- Any large bird should fly without hm
- Water-type or aquatic can surf on water regardless.
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Old 8 Hours Ago (2:15 AM).
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Gameplay mechanics > realism

If you can't even put a handful HM moves on your team, or if using HM moves makes you complain about being slightly less overpowered, you might be doing something wrong.

Now, I do admit that GF isn't doing that great of a job, making HMs a good mechanic. In gen 1 there weren't that many options for good moves, so putting HMs on your team helped getting some powerful moves and in BW they tried to emulate that by making most of the powerful TMs postgame only. But outside of that there were just too many instances where some HMs just felt unneccessary, like having three different Water type HMs.

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Old 6 Hours Ago (4:45 AM).
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Keep the HMs but let players delete the move from a Pokémon without needing the Move Deleter. Use a HM slave for moved like Cut since they aren't powerful or easy to delete and the problem is solved. Plus some HMS are actually good moves, why get rid of them? Moves like Waterfall are great for a Pokemon like Gyrados a d should remain on the game.
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Old 5 Hours Ago (5:19 AM).
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I think Phillip (the one just above) easily got the perfect description here, keep the stronger HMs as learnable moves (such as Fly, Surf and Waterfall) and also make them able to remove without needing a Move Deleter, but then I think the reason why it operates as it is now is so you avoid getting stuck somewhere.

Blue Yveltal also gave some good points, I could imagine Pokemon with sharp claws being able to cut bushes, muscular Pokemon being able to move boulders, and Water-type Pokemon naturally being able to cross water.
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Old 5 Hours Ago (5:25 AM).
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I feel it'd be nice change if they were to allow moves to have the similar out-of-battle effects as certain HMs (for example, Aerial Ace permitting you to travel from place to place, just like Fly, but in a quicker, more dangerous pace). As for getting rid of HMs all-together, I personally wouldn't be opposed to that!
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