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Fifth Generation Are Pokémon slaves to humans? Team Plasma thinks so. Travel the Unova region and prove them wrong in Black & White, and then return two years later in Black2 & White2.


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  #1    
Old December 3rd, 2012, 11:11 PM
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Let's look at Reshiram. Part-Fire, Part-Dragon, originally speculated to be a light type, fire involves light, it is brought to life with the Light Stone and on Bulbapedia it says,

"There is also same resemblance to the Zoroastrian belief of two equally powerful deities, one representing light and truth and the other representing lies and darkness. In this case, Reshiram can resemble Ahura Mazda, due to its light and winged appearance and the fact that it sided with truth, but also the fact that Reshiram is a Fire-type Pokémon, and Ahura Mazda was associated with fire."

With the themes of Black and White, a dark and light theme could have totally fitted fine - but yet due to Zekrom not having a Dark-typing instead of Dragon, it is less likely that Reshiram having a Light-typing would've worked.

DISCUSS!

- Did you originally think Reshiram WAS the first Light-type Pokemon?
- Do you think this would've worked?
- Why do you think GF didn't do it?
- Are you happy they didn't introduce a Light-type in this way?
- Are there any other things you've noticed within the game that could've fit in with introducing said typing?

Please don't answer this as a list, use that as a basis for your answers and please discuss a lot!!!

If this turns into whether you'd want a light type or not I'll move it to PGen but if we can keep it Unova-related that'd be amazing. Also if you wanna talk about different/new moves etc everything else the Light-type would bring I guess you could discuss that in Pokemon General but for now the rest fits well here.
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Old December 3rd, 2012, 11:33 PM
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I think that in most cases, Light is covered by a combination of other types. Sometimes it's Psychic, others it's Electric or even Fire. From a type matchup point of view, I doubt it would do much good to the current type balance. Sure, make it weak to Poison/Grass or other poor offensive types and then strong against currently overpowered types, such as Dragon, Steel, etc. and it might help. Even then, it doesn't really make sense.

I doubt that Game Freak intended to add it in. The trio makes sense when you consider Kyurem being Ice. Had it been Dragon/Normal or something, I could understand.

Lastly, I think if they wanted to introduce it, they would have already. Ho-oh sparkles in the sunlight and produces rainbows. Ampharos is a lighthouse Pokemon and Lanturn would make more sense with a light affinity than Electricity. In other words, Gen 2 would have been the right time. Alongside Dark, as well.
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Old December 3rd, 2012, 11:44 PM
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I agree with Archer here, it wouldn't have worked out cos most over types already cover it like Psychic, Electric and Fire. Also, it really wouldn't fit the current type chart.

Also, I wouldn't even know what it would be strong or weak against cos it looks pointless. If they were to introduce a Light-type already, it should have been during Generation 2.

As for Reshiram, I speculated it to be Dragon and Psychic or Fire. I was correct with the latter though. But I don't know why people speculated it to be the first Light-type, must be because it's white in color or something.

So yeah, I am pleased they didn't introduce it, cos it wouldn't fit in the current type balance.
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Old December 4th, 2012, 03:11 AM
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I don't think so, because I'm pretty sure that the fandom has been asking for it for such a long time that they have become aware of it and made a conscious decision not to include it in the games in any future generation. I don't expect to see it introduced next generation or any generation there-after.
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Old December 4th, 2012, 04:19 AM
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no light is not needed we have psychic
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Old December 4th, 2012, 05:38 AM
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- Did you originally think Reshiram WAS the first Light-type Pokemon? Nope, I would go with Celebi.
- Do you think this would've worked? Maybe... If it was weak to fire, dark, ghost and electric and was super effective to dark, ghost and psychic...
- Why do you think GF didn't do it? Because they thought it wouldn't be a success. They will probably have thought about it, but it's their decision.
- Are you happy they didn't introduce a Light-type in this way? Yes, if there was going to be one, I would introduce it with Celebi or Jirachi. Maybe the lake guardians.
- Are there any other things you've noticed within the game that could've fit in with introducing said typing? Well, no. They could have changed types a bit though. Here's what I would do:
Maractus: Ground, Grass
Boldore: Rock, Ground
Gigalith: Rock, Steel
Palpitoad: Water
Heatmor: Fire, Bug
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Old December 4th, 2012, 07:12 AM
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There really isn't a need for a Light type, because Dark types are not categorized as pure darkness like in Kingdom Hearts. It basically describes Pokemon who are sneaky, liers, and cheaters. Their weakness to Fighting describes how matarial artists are honorable and fight like gentlemen. The only new types that are a possibility are Cyber and Space.
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  #8    
Old December 4th, 2012, 08:35 AM
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I think any new types at this point of the franchise would be a bad move and a bit awkward.
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Old December 4th, 2012, 09:49 AM
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I speculated on Reshiram possibly being a light type for a while but then I assumed it would be dragon/flying or dragon/steel.

I think the light type could of worked if they had introduced it earlier, not sure how if would go down if they did it now.

I dont think they will add anymore typings, though a space/time typing would have been AMAZING for d/p/p and have them only weak and supereffective against each other.
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Old December 4th, 2012, 12:06 PM
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I actually never thought of light type lol. I was thinking Psychic. But I think a light type would be pretty awesome. Maybe they didn't do it because it would be weird to suddenly introduce a new type after 5 gens. Maybe because the didn't want a type exclusive to one Pokemon.
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Old December 5th, 2012, 12:01 AM
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I never speculated light type. I don't think they will add anymore types. Honestly, I'd expect to see a ??? type pokemon before a light type pokemon.
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Old December 5th, 2012, 11:50 PM
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I'm surprised guys! I'm going to actually be the odd one out and reply differently, so feel free to disagree with this post if you'd like.

I think it could've worked out really well. You'd have the central ying/yang themes, and you'd have dark/light, good/evil. While light would imply that the person who caught Zekrom was evil, it could've been twisted in the opposite game. So for example say you caught Zekrom, you were capturing it so it didn't attack Unova, and you caught Reshiram to help you save Unova. If you changed up their purposes a bit, good/evil could definitely work out with light and dark. Adding to that, it would've been a badass way for them to introduce it, with them being cover legendaries of the new revolutionary fifth generation games which had so far changed up so much of what we already knew in previous games. I don't think GF did it though because they didn't want to make the ultimate Pokemon game set. If they did, they would have, making Black and White the darkest of all the games covering good vs evil to the extent of dark/light. Plus Bllack City and White Forest - coincidentally DARK and LIGHT! It was meant to be gaiz. :( If only, GF.
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Old December 8th, 2012, 06:35 PM
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It would have been nice to see for sure. I guess if they did release light type, that would open the door to some crazy new pokemon.
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Old December 8th, 2012, 08:13 PM
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I agree with most of the others and say that Light type is not needed because it seems to be a combination of Psychic and Electric.
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  #15    
Old December 8th, 2012, 09:58 PM
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It is way too late for that.
Last time they added something new was in Gold/Silver... 12 years ago.
I don't see much reason in adding it, though I disagree that Psychic is Light. Mewtwo... a Light type?
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Old December 9th, 2012, 07:51 AM
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I originally though he was going to be the first Light-type. It would have worked because if they did Zekrom would have been Dark and the Final Battle would have been Light vs Dark. I think they didn't add it because the last time they added new types was in Gold and Silver and it would have been strange to just randomly introduce a new type now. Finally the light and dark stones would have mad it a perfect opportunity to introduce it.

Truly light would have been cool if it was a type that was focused on healing because healing moves are far and few between.
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Old December 9th, 2012, 08:25 AM
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I'm still going to rely on the lost in translation trope and say that the Dark type being called the Aku (roughly translated as "evil") type in Japanese wouldn't really blend well with Zekrom in the first place (especially from a viewpoint when canon says he's meant to be a representation of ideals, of all things). Aku represents underhanded tactics and cheap shots, which is really present in almost every Dark-type attack you could find. If anything, the direct opposite of this Aku type is the Kakusei (Fighting) type, because in Japan, Kakusei does not only mean fighting, but also has ties with heroism and righteousness. Kakusei opposes Aku because it's fighting fair against underhanded sucker punching. So that's the good Light type missing into the equation, I think. Along with the literal light (as in visible light) being passed on to Psychic, Electric and Fire types.

Although I do think Nica did bring some good points that I agree with, because the yin and yang concept can really tie into the Aku concept, and it's not that unthinkable say Zekrom was really intended to be affiliated with darkness and cheap tactics. So yeah, perfect opportunity to introduce a righteous type like a Light type since it makes sense to the Western audience. However, I think they made a good decision to avoid this chaos and stick with different types altogether, since some of the canonical concepts tied into their actual draconian types I think are alright, anyway. Also with fire representing the old, i.e. truth, electricity representing the new, i.e. ideals. Sure it is a bit underwhelming, but the current type chart is how it is, and really I don't see it changing any time soon.
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Old December 9th, 2012, 10:54 AM
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Light (as a type) is not fitted for use in pokémon. Reason is simple: Light travels 300,000,000 m/s. So if a pokémon would have to use light as it's type it would have to be a tremendously fast pokémon. And they can't afford to do that as it would 'ruin' all other pokémon who were fast before the introducement of the 'light' type. They could alter it's speed but that would ruin all the realism that was already in the games (not much) to even less. In other words it would not be good for the games.
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Old December 9th, 2012, 10:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pokewalker View Post
Light (as a type) is not fitted for use in pokémon. Reason is simple: Light travels 300,000,000 m/s. So if a pokémon would have to use light as it's type it would have to be a tremendously fast pokémon. And they can't afford to do that as it would 'ruin' all other pokémon who were fast before the introducement of the 'light' type. They could alter it's speed but that would ruin all the realism that was already in the games (not much) to even less. In other words it would not be good for the games.
Not really... just because it's fast doesn't mean it'd ruin everything else. They could be fast/defensive and have sucky stats, or be fast and be like Ninjask, for example. Nevertheless if Reshiram was extremely fast, it'd mean that Zekrom would have to be pretty slow, making Reshiram specialise in special def / def and Zekrom in attack / spa. Could've worked out and people wouldn't have said Zekrom misses out due to being the physical one.

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Originally Posted by Cid View Post
I'm still going to rely on the lost in translation trope and say that the Dark type being called the Aku (roughly translated as "evil") type in Japanese wouldn't really blend well with Zekrom in the first place (especially from a viewpoint when canon says he's meant to be a representation of ideals, of all things). Aku represents underhanded tactics and cheap shots, which is really present in almost every Dark-type attack you could find. If anything, the direct opposite of this Aku type is the Kakusei (Fighting) type, because in Japan, Kakusei does not only mean fighting, but also has ties with heroism and righteousness. Kakusei opposes Aku because it's fighting fair against underhanded sucker punching. So that's the good Light type missing into the equation, I think. Along with the literal light (as in visible light) being passed on to Psychic, Electric and Fire types.

Although I do think Nica did bring some good points that I agree with, because the yin and yang concept can really tie into the Aku concept, and it's not that unthinkable say Zekrom was really intended to be affiliated with darkness and cheap tactics. So yeah, perfect opportunity to introduce a righteous type like a Light type since it makes sense to the Western audience. However, I think they made a good decision to avoid this chaos and stick with different types altogether, since some of the canonical concepts tied into their actual draconian types I think are alright, anyway. Also with fire representing the old, i.e. truth, electricity representing the new, i.e. ideals. Sure it is a bit underwhelming, but the current type chart is how it is, and really I don't see it changing any time soon.
Hey I like your post. :) I didn't actually think about how it would be perceived to the audience the games are primarily aimed at :( idk, they COULD have made it change on country - so Reshiram itself was different depending on what country it was in, while for Japan it could become a light type if something happened, and fighting if something happened in the English games. But ya, way too complicated tho. Or just light in general still might've worked maaaybe?

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I originally though he was going to be the first Light-type. It would have worked because if they did Zekrom would have been Dark and the Final Battle would have been Light vs Dark. I think they didn't add it because the last time they added new types was in Gold and Silver and it would have been strange to just randomly introduce a new type now. Finally the light and dark stones would have mad it a perfect opportunity to introduce it.

Truly light would have been cool if it was a type that was focused on healing because healing moves are far and few between.
Yeahh it'd have been awesome but seeing Reshiram as a healer kind of is crazy, although originally it did look quite angelic, really, so that could've fit in.
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Old December 9th, 2012, 10:23 PM
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Light (as a type) is not fitted for use in pokémon. Reason is simple: Light travels 300,000,000 m/s. So if a pokémon would have to use light as it's type it would have to be a tremendously fast pokémon. And they can't afford to do that as it would 'ruin' all other pokémon who were fast before the introducement of the 'light' type. They could alter it's speed but that would ruin all the realism that was already in the games (not much) to even less. In other words it would not be good for the games.
Trees don't move at a rate that is even visible to the human eye, that's how slow they are. Yet Pokemon based on trees don't have their speed based on it. Same with most grass types - they have no ability to move in real life, but have varying speeds in-game. Steel can't even move in real life on its own, and yet some Steel-types are very fast. Speed isn't linked to type in any case, why would it be linked to type with a Light type?

Edit: Even considering that, ever heard this quote? "No matter how fast light travels, it finds the darkness has always got there first, and is waiting for it." -Terry Pratchett
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Old December 10th, 2012, 05:09 AM
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Quote:
- Did you originally think Reshiram WAS the first Light-type Pokemon?
No. 5th gens in I doubted we would see a new type now when the system was more or less balanced, and it would have brought other issues (need to rework moves like Hidden power, maybe the IV system, what about older Pokemon that could also be defined as a 'Light' type, if none are changed then having a rather small amount of Light Types in total...etc etc).

We only saw new types in gen 2 when all these were minor issues, and because the system was quite broken (see: overpowered Psychic types). Now there's just no need for them.

So introducing it now would have been far from perfect imo. 2nd gen was really the better time (or first time around, of course).
Quote:
I think it could've worked out really well. You'd have the central ying/yang themes, and you'd have dark/light, good/evil. While light would imply that the person who caught Zekrom was evil, it could've been twisted in the opposite game.
It might have... but then again, I'd say firstly the ying/yang concept is already very well established in the story (it's not just good/evil or dark/light), and that the Pokemon franchise typically doesn't go into the 'evil Pokemon' thing. Closed you get to that in games are Shadow Pokemon, and that's due to people than the Pokemon themselves, and the odd Pokedex entry I guess. But I don't think Zekrom/Reshiram were ever intended to be evil, nor the person catching them evil (protagonists are always good in this series, and N was socially ruined, not evil).

Also agree with what Cid said.
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Old December 10th, 2012, 08:28 AM
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Trees don't move at a rate that is even visible to the human eye, that's how slow they are. Yet Pokemon based on trees don't have their speed based on it. Same with most grass types - they have no ability to move in real life, but have varying speeds in-game. Steel can't even move in real life on its own, and yet some Steel-types are very fast. Speed isn't linked to type in any case, why would it be linked to type with a Light type?

Edit: Even considering that, ever heard this quote? "No matter how fast light travels, it finds the darkness has always got there first, and is waiting for it." -Terry Pratchett
Objection. While it is true what you're saying, I do not see 'light' being introduced as a type. Then every pokemon would be resistant to a light attack, because light shines on them all day. You could say that it would vary in the heaviness of the light attack, but that would have to be pretty intense and then it'd have to use so much heat for it that it'd result in a fire-like attack. I think that's why GF didn't put it in; the two types have to much in common.
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Old December 19th, 2012, 12:00 AM
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Objection. While it is true what you're saying, I do not see 'light' being introduced as a type. Then every pokemon would be resistant to a light attack, because light shines on them all day. You could say that it would vary in the heaviness of the light attack, but that would have to be pretty intense and then it'd have to use so much heat for it that it'd result in a fire-like attack. I think that's why GF didn't put it in; the two types have to much in common.
If anything that'd make it further tie in with Reshiram, given that it currently is a fire dragon and all.

Nevertheless darkness would probably be hurt x2 by it because light overcoming dark, etc, morals like that.
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Old December 19th, 2012, 02:40 AM
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Adding types takes a lot of work to balance out all the type effectivenesses and resistances and stuff. They only added them in GSC for actual game balance purposes; nothing even resisted Psychic in Gen I, so they added Steel and Dark to counter it. Now that it's actually balanced, they can just keep adding Pokemon to innovate. It's also just too late to add a new colour type because so many moves that would have been light are already another type (Flash, Flash Cannon, etc) and errata'ing that would actually just wreck things.

There's not enough reason to do it. "It would be cool and fit with the theme" doesn't counteract the work that has to be done and the fact that light would feel very lacking due to the lack of current Pokemon that would fit into Light.
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Old December 19th, 2012, 03:04 AM
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no light is not needed we have psychic
Winning argument right here, guys.

No, I don't they intended to add it in, nor would they ever.

The whole Light type seems a waste of effort in my opinion.
It opposes Dark type, but we've already got Fighting and Ghost beating Dark Types, if Dark were to super effect Light, then it would just be a clone of Psychic Types.

There is however quite a few Pokémon that could use Light as a type:
Litwick (Candle)
Lampent (Lamp)
Chandelure (Chandelere)
Ampharos (Used to light lighthouses often)
Reshiram (as stated in OP)
A lot of Fire and Electric Pokémon.
Espeon (seems fitting since it's opposite [Umbreon] is a dark type)

There's lots more too...
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