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  #1    
Old December 20th, 2012, 01:26 PM
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A five-year-old boy who stole apples, threw counting beads around and attacked pupils and staff has been expelled - for kicking his teacher in the face.
Logan Steed was kicked out of Powers Hall Infant School in Witham, Essex, after being suspended four times in his first year for hitting, biting and punching pupils and staff.
He was told not to come back after teachers tried every disciplinary method they could come up with - even disrupting the class by evacuating every other child when Logan caused trouble.

The final straw came when Logan was sitting on a chair and kicked his teacher in the face as she bent over.
He cannot face any charges for his bad behaviour as an older child might, however, because the age of criminal responsibility is ten.
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Thoughts? I'm pretty damn shocked that a 5 year old could do this.
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  #2    
Old December 20th, 2012, 01:31 PM
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Wow o_o that kid is out of control. I honestly dont blame the school for kicking him out, he wasnt going to stop and it seems they tried just about everything and they have a responsibility to make sure kids are in a good learning environment and that everyone is safe. What about his parents though, did they know he behaved like this?
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  #3    
Old December 20th, 2012, 04:49 PM
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I was wondering if such a kid like him would exist and was immune to all disciplinary methods he's given. This kid is a bad seed.
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Old December 20th, 2012, 04:58 PM
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Anyone who thinks kids can't be mean-spirited like that is naive. Kids are far from innocent angels; even I, as a super timid person now, hit as a kid until I realized that I couldn't get away with it.
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  #5    
Old December 20th, 2012, 05:11 PM
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Oh wow... didn't think a kid could get that rough... I don't blame the school for kicking him out or anything..he obviously had out of control behavior.
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  #6    
Old December 20th, 2012, 05:12 PM
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o-o I wonder if he has some problem or anything. Because rather than people who has behavorial problems, I wonder if he has that or he's getting bad treatment.
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Old December 20th, 2012, 06:40 PM
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Someone needs to cut down on the sugar.

In all seriousness, they should seriously get the kid checked out. He might have a condition that makes him more violent than normal. Not sure who I pity more though, the little kid or the people he attacked.

I also find the apple thing kinda funny for some reason. Cause of its symbolism I guess.
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  #8    
Old December 20th, 2012, 09:56 PM
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I find it strange some of you are shocked by this, to be honest. :( Then again, I had to hear some pretty ugly stories about kids even worse than this when we went over behavioral problems in one of my classes. I vaguely remember them though, but I remember about one kid who went through early childhood normally and had urges to kill in later childhood and such. It was pretty sad, honestly. But I digress. I do agree with the school on this one. When nothing fails, perhaps this school isn't the place for him and he can find the therapy and treatment he needs elsewhere.

Quote:
In all seriousness, they should seriously get the kid checked out. He might have a condition that makes him more violent than normal. Not sure who I pity more though, the little kid or the people he attacked.
Mmhmm. They definitely need to get him assessed and have him in some type of therapy before it gets worse. He's only a child right now, but if this goes unattended for a long time, it could amount to something more. I'm not trying to say that all children that behave badly have something wrong with them, but when you take into account that nothing the school could do seemed to help him, then there's an underlying condition at hand. I hope he gets the help he needs though. I really do.
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  #9    
Old December 21st, 2012, 01:19 AM
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Originally Posted by Toujours View Post
Anyone who thinks kids can't be mean-spirited like that is naive. Kids are far from innocent angels; even I, as a super timid person now, hit as a kid until I realized that I couldn't get away with it.
This, basically. It boggles my mind that people see kids as adorable little angels. They're not. They're sociopaths whose emotional centers haven't developed yet. Empathy is one of the last emotions we develop. Many kids are completely self-centered well into their teens.

Anyone who works with kids for more than an hour should be aware of how awful some of them can be. And the thing is, they don't even know what they're doing is bad a lot of the time. So yeah, in a sense, they're innocent. They do horrible things without knowing why they're horrible (that's not to say they don't know they're wrong, just not why). That's part of what the parents' job is: teach them right and wrong and keep them in line until they develop enough where they don't need it anymore.
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  #10    
Old December 24th, 2012, 07:36 PM
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Of course it's in the UK...

That is a very weird piece of news indeed. I can definately see this child growing up to be a big criminal.
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  #11    
Old December 25th, 2012, 10:40 AM
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Kid needs to go to a Military school then and I do believe that have some at that age too
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  #12    
Old December 25th, 2012, 10:50 AM
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Kid needs to go to a Military school then and I do believe that have some at that age too
How is joing the military going to help solve his behavior? He'll probably just harrass the other soldiers, and perhaps foreign residence if he's ever transferred, when he's older. A psychologist would be the best solution.
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  #13    
Old December 25th, 2012, 12:38 PM
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Originally Posted by Pinkie-Dawn View Post
How is joing the military going to help solve his behavior? He'll probably just harrass the other soldiers, and perhaps foreign residence if he's ever transferred, when he's older. A psychologist would be the best solution.
Presumably military school would provide him with the authority needed to channel his instincts into productive outlets.
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  #14    
Old December 26th, 2012, 06:40 PM
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Way too young to jump on the psychological issue boat... sometimes a kid is mean spirited and ill behaved just because of the age, and can't think of the golden rule to treat others as how you want to be treated yet. I'm personally strongly against psychological diagnosis to be set in stone for so young. So many kids at school and at my workplace are drugged up and they really don't need to be...

Not saying that you can't take someone so young to a psychologist, but usually the case is you have to keep it up and nothing's all that confirmed until they're an older age anyway (like 8-10). You just keep it in mind that psychological issues *may* be a possible reason why a kid misbehaves... but 5 is just too young to blame it solely on ADHD.
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Old December 27th, 2012, 03:23 PM
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Young children are concerned with reasons that seem strange to us and of course everyone is different, could just be that at heart he is a bad person.
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  #16    
Old December 28th, 2012, 02:06 PM
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Here's the obvious thing that both sides are missing. No where in the article does it mention how the child was reared, or if there have been outside influences.

Think about it. No baby has ever thought to his or herself "I think I'll become a sociopath, it sounds pretty rad". Unless some of the wires are crossed upstairs or certain areas of the brain are underdeveloped, babies are usually born with a clean slate and a level playing field. It's how a baby is nurtured that typically shapes development.

Now, the problem with this boy could come down to a developmental or personality disorder, or it falls squarely on his upbringing. If you read the article, it says that so far, all tests for conditions and abnormalities came back negative. Looks to me like it's an issue with upbringing.

At the top of the chain here are the parents. They are the ones responsible for shaping a child, and every action and inaction counts. You can be what you feel is the nicest parent in the world, but it doesn't mean squat if the child rarely ever sees you. Additionally, parents usually speak in extremes about their children. They are either precious angels that get straight As, are involved in every club and generally do no wrong, or they are a miserable sack of crap (just like their dad/mom) who'll never amount to anything, and unless the parent is flat out abusive and never wanted the child in the first place, it's almost always going to be the former. Therefore, you have to weigh what the parents say about their child against what they aren't saying, even if they're in denial or oblivious. The proof of the boy's actions is out there with plenty of eye witnesses, so there's possibly something going on at home that isn't being noted.

Outside influences are a real factor too, especially when kids are that young. The parents' other relatives and friends and how they all interact with each other may have an influence, the places the boy was taken to could shape a certain perspective, and while TV's used as a scapegoat more often than not, it can't be discounted entirely. Maybe the parents let him watch programming that isn't intended for him to see. Maybe he finds it himself when they aren't home. Who really knows?

I think this goes way beyond "oh, but he's just a kid" or "kids are monsters". Those are just surface reactions based on personal experiences, or the lack thereof. It doesn't really say or add anything to the topic at hand, though.


The mother has some really rosy cheeks. Beyond rosacea, I never knew that was a thing. :D
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  #17    
Old December 28th, 2012, 02:38 PM
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even disrupting the class by evacuating every other child when Logan caused trouble.
Either the kid is amazingly destructive and needs help fast or the teacher is lazy and always take the easy way out of things. I doubt it's the former.

The whole issue with this is that the child isn't old enough for a psychologist, so he either needs help or the school needs some serious help with the disciplinary system.
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Old December 29th, 2012, 03:39 AM
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I work with this age group in a school, and I have to say, I can see this happening. There are lots of kids who are actually taught by their parents to not respect women, so they don't listen to female staff members.

Sad, but true.
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Old December 30th, 2012, 08:17 AM
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Wow, talk about rough. :/
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  #20    
Old January 8th, 2013, 04:15 PM
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There are some sorta interesting cultural differences in this thread, honestly. Especially with the... suggestion they send this kid to military school. This is not, by any means, unusual or even unexpected behaviour to me. Kids have tantrums and do crazy stuff like this literally all the time. Surprised this made the news at all - all they really need is a talking to from their parents so they understand why they've been bad. Not all kids are all shy and angelic and wonderful and whatever. Indeed, I'd say that the minority are. This one was slightly worse than most but nothing to really... care about, lol.

A suspension would probably have been appropriate to get this kid a bit more aware of what the problem is, but expulsion is a bit too much imo.

Last edited by Razor Leaf; January 8th, 2013 at 04:24 PM.
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