They ruined pokemon

[bulbasaurlover]

I don't bother playing my black and white anymore it's too fast, confusing, and boring. Besides, i liked the first generation games WAYYYYYYYYYYY better. Nothing personal but the games these days aren't what they used to be.

[Sudeki]

Originally Posted by bulbasaurlover

I don't bother playing my black and white anymore it's too fast, confusing, and boring. Besides, i liked the first generation games WAYYYYYYYYYYY better. Nothing personal but the games these days aren't what they used to be.

This exact same thing is said for almost every single game with sequels. It is also just an opinion which everyone has. Obviously enough people have liked the BW/BW2 games.

[LilJz1234]

Most people doesn't like to adapt to changes, so when they see new Pokemon coming out, most of their reactions are 'We were getting used to the last generation and now they're bringing out more?!'

But over time, people will end up enjoying the later games/Pokemon. I really didn't like the new Pokemon they put out when I first saw them. Then I saw the anime and played the games and I gotta say, my opinion on the 5th gen completely changed. I love the fifth gen now

So did they really ruin Pokemon? In my opinion, no.

[dbp]

This is both hilarious and absurd. If I could break the rules, I'd've just typed myself laughing and then left it at that. Come on, man, you can't be serious.

All arguments about Pokemon being ruined are either "they changed it, now it sucks" or "they didn't change it, RUINED FOREVER", and all it really does is make the person arguing the point sound like an old man. The music they play today is nothing but filth. Why does everything on Cartoon Network suck? And so on. The good old days only exist in the memories of that particular individual. It's not an objective viewpoint.

It's one thing to fall out of Pokemon. I'm that guy, and I'm sure I'm not the only one here. I'd even go along with you if you said the main games are too heavily dependant on a formula that fundamentally hasn't changed all that much (making a case for stagnation). But to say that the reason for such is because they made additions to it (that's what sequels do) causing it to be "fast, confusing and boring" and thereby ruined it as if Pokemon was the gold standard of all video gaming is rather pretentious. It's fine that you like the first generations moreso. You can state that without having to play the "ruined" card, though.

I'm not defending Black and White. All I'm really saying is that you have to be a lot more careful about the way you say things. Using a bold statement like "ruined" has to have objective qualifiers. A better post would have been something like:

"I've played Black and White, but I just don't feel the same excitement about the games that I used to feel. I feel like Pokemon isn't holding my interest anymore. Is it just me? Does anyone else feel that way? Does anyone feel the opposite? Why or why not? Also, offer suggestions, or tell me what you do to keep Pokemon fresh in your experiences."

That last part invites a bit more discussion into the topic, makes it a bit more conversational. But anyway, yeah. You know. I can't close this properly to save my life.

[Keiran777]

There is literally nothing better about the first generation games, you are just a different person and are speaking out of nostalgia. I can't even make it to Brock nowadays before getting bored and giving up.

I just ordered White 2 for myself and I've never been more excited for a Pokemon game because I can't wait to link it with my Black 2 and play Challenge Mode.

The only big thing Gen 5 is missing are secret bases, which Gen 1 didn't have. There were too many bugs and too little features in Gen 1 for me to consider it better than any other generation.

[LilJz1234]

Originally Posted by Keiran777

There is literally nothing better about the first generation games, you are just a different person and are speaking out of nostalgia. I can't even make it to Brock nowadays before getting bored and giving up.

I just ordered White 2 for myself and I've never been more excited for a Pokemon game because I can't wait to link it with my Black 2 and play Challenge Mode.

The only big thing Gen 5 is missing are secret bases, which Gen 1 didn't have. There were too many bugs and too little features in Gen 1 for me to consider it better than any other generation.

Not to mention they HIGHLY improved the graphics, the battle mechanics, the storyline and the new move sets are also in par with the new battle systems.

[Pinkie-Dawn]

See, guys, this is the reason why I made that Gen V thread at the Pokemon General section in the first place; it's because of people like the OP of this thread that the franchise is going to destroy itself if GF doesn't please the haters, no matter how many new fans it gains. The fanbase is becoming just as bad, if not worse, than Zelda, Sonic, and Final Fantasy's fanbase because of Gen V.

It's one thing to fall out of Pokemon. I'm that guy, and I'm sure I'm not the only one here. I'd even go along with you if you said the main games are too heavily dependant on a formula that fundamentally hasn't changed all that much (making a case for stagnation).

For a good reason. Star Fox Adventures and Banjo Kazzoie Nuts & Bolts, for example, were heavily criticized for changing the gameplay entirely. If it ain't broken, don't fix it.

[LMFAO. Word up.]

For me the first generation games were works of art and I loved them even the second generation managed to slip in nicely without any issues, when they got to generation 3, which is when I mainly started to watch the Anime I loved the pokemon, then Emerald came out and it introduced so much stuff which would have made Gen 1-2 better Eg: Double battles, Abilities and Natures. Then they rereleased pokemon red as Fire Red and it was so amazing! It added R/S/E features to the original pokemon games which I loved!

Heartgold and Soulsilver I didn't like because they copied the Sinnoh battle style and for me it was too slow and boring.

Sinnoh pokemon for me were just dreadful, everything was so overpowered and nothing in the game seemed to be special which was a real disappointment to say I own both diamond and platinum.

When they released Black and White I was set in my ways to hate it, but on release it was actually a pretty good game, the game play was smooth the battles were fast and didn't drag on, I loved the rematch system for the Elite Four and it made me quite happy when I played them.

So for my pokemon goes in 2 ways; It will bring out a game which will completely change the face of pokemon, then it will bring out a game with stupid features and it will sort of lower the bar for games, then when people are starting to get bored with them they release something new with new features to raise the bar again.

[Shadow420]

Well of course Pokemon hasn't been ruined. Each generation new features are added and the graphics become more and more amazing. Compare R/B's graphics to those of B2/W2. Which do you think looks better?

It's not just the graphics, though. New battle mechanics have been introduced (eg. new battle styles and moves that work differently because of them) as of each generation, and it has me looking forward to the potential that Gen VI has. The storyline has gotten deeper with each new incarnation, too. So how can anyone say Pokemon has been ruined?

And to be perfectly frank, I happen to enjoy the oldest games just as much as the newest ones. All of this Gen V hate is really unwarranted...

But who am I to argue with people's opinions?

[Forever]

Considering this isn't limited to B/W and includes B2/W2 too, I'm going to throw the generation's comparison over to Pokemon Gaming Central as there appears to be nothing similar to that nature there.

[PersianTrainer]

I have not played any games from the 4th generation (Sinnoh, I plan on buying some.) - I own Black2 on DS, all others I played on Emulators.

1st Generation (Red/Blue/Yellow) - they where fun, but I didn't played them until after I played gen 3 games, so I found it a bit boring

2nd Generation (Gold/Silver/Crystal) - also I found it a bit boring, I know they are for GameBoy, so quality really bad (I mean for graphics) + Johto has to be the region where my least favorite of Pokemon where released

3rd Generation (Ruby/Sapphire/Emerald + Fire Red/Leaf Green) - it was Fire Red and Sapphire the first games I actually played, so I found them fun. I had the actual games on GBA don't know what happened to them. Really liked it that it had color. Now I play them on Emulator.

4th Generation (Diamond/Pearl/Platinum + Heart Gold/Soul Silver) - I have not yet gotten a chance to play them, in January I plan on buying one or two.

5th Generation (Black and White/Black2 and White2) - I have Black2 and never gotten bored, its my favorite so far in the games, so much stuff to explore, really like the Rotational battles. Really love the graphics too, and of course Roxie's music too. Most of my favorite Pokemon are from this generation and some from the previous generation too.

Can't wait to be surprised when Gen. 6 is released.

I prefer the newer games over the older ones. Well thats my opinion.

[dbp]

There's seems to be some over reactions to one post. Using the term "ruined" was unnecessary, but I also don't think the guy hates Pokemon now or anything. Sounds to me like some people encounter this a lot more than they'd like to. But I honestly wouldn't say this fanbase is as bad as Sonic or Zelda or whatever. I hear that tossed around a lot when there's a disagreement people have heard one too many times. It's just as easy to play the broken base card as it is the ruined forever card. But you can't base your judgment off of a few (too many) altercations.

Besides, I'd honestly argue the fanbase was worse in its older years. Like someone else said, people have always stated that each new generation was worse than the one prior. That's never changed. There was a time where everyone was defensive/opinionated over and about everything, and there only a handful of Pokemon compared to what there is now. This dates back as early as the second generation, maybe earlier (though if true, I wasn't old enough to realize it). But most of those people have all grown up, now, and aren't really that concerned about a video game anymore. To us, it's a fun memory. A new generation of players have gotten into Pokemon, and I feel it's different from what I remember.

Correct me if I'm painting an overly positive picture, but it seems like most people these days don't care about the total number, the designs, the generation's seniority or anything. They like that the series is very diverse, and not only that, but has wider coverage than it used to. It seems to be a whole lot easier to connect to people as Pokemon fans and enthusiasts because the series has had a long time to establish itself. In a sense, the old guard basically died off (by which I mean mellowed out), and are just happy to share the memories, and the new generation learns from these perspectives (if they aren't super jaded). Conversely, the new generation's enthusiasm and involvement with newer creatures can get older gamers excited and even interested in the series as it is currently, even if some people just like a handful of new designs. Overall, it's come to a point where, for the most part, we're all just happy Pokemon exists for some reason or other, and the details don't matter as much as the experiences.

Just tossing in a couple more pennies. No need to overreact on either side of the fence, guys. Maybe we should do more to find out the why on both sides (don't be afraid to talk to each other, we're all here for the same general reason ;)), as opposed to hasty conclusions. But for now, just smile and enjoy the ride.

Also, as far as the evolution of a franchise goes and sucessful reinvention, that's a topic for another time. There's plenty of discussion there, but you'll find its actually hard to come up with the best possible solution, and not everybody gets it right.

[Heracles4]

On the contrary, B/W and their sequels are so frickin slow. It takes forever to walk, to enter a building, to exit a building, to talk to people, to enter the battles, to battle, to exit the battles. Pretty much everything. And I hate that it takes so long.

I also hate that there is no safari zone,the dream world, that poison doesn't hurt out of battle,TMs aren't a one time use anymore, etc


IMO, the gba games were the best...If only they could take them, put them on ds cartridge thingy-mabobbers, and take the new games and convert them into that format

[Brendino]

Ruined is definitely not the right word for what has happened to the Pokemon franchise. Much like the Pokemon themselves, the series has evolved. There will always be people that prefer the original, unevolved versions of a Pokemon (say Bulbasaur), but as a Pokemon evolves (into Ivysaur then Venusaur), there's no denying that it's more powerful than it was before, even though some will stand by their unevolved partners. This holds true for the games, too. As technology progresses, the visuals, mechanics and details of the game move forward. Some may see these changes as "fast, confusing and boring", but I'd say the majority are excited about the changes, and can't wait to see what Gen VI and beyond bring us.

I absolutely loved the originals when they came out, but when you look back 15 years, you come to realize that there were many bugs, glitches and flaws that make them nowhere near as good as today's games (technologically, at least). As for whether or not that makes them better, that's up to opinion.

[Arlo~]

Pokemon Blue was my first video game ever. I still love Pokemon just as much now. Now that I can trade over the internet, it makes me love it more.

Yeah, I wish there were secret bases and that TMs weren't multi-use, but that's not affecting the fact its still a pokemon game, and I still love it. My two favourite pokemon are Gengar and Snivy. I love I as much as V.

[rocky505]

Originally Posted by Heracles4

On the contrary, B/W and their sequels are so frickin slow. It takes forever to walk, to enter a building, to exit a building, to talk to people, to enter the battles, to battle, to exit the battles. Pretty much everything. And I hate that it takes so long.

I also hate that there is no safari zone,the dream world, that poison doesn't hurt out of battle,TMs aren't a one time use anymore, etc

They're not slow at all. Gen I and II had to suffer with slowness with no running shoes and had to rely on the bike that couldn't be used in some places that could be ran around in types of places similar to them in Gen V(Pokemon Tower in Gen I and Celestial Tower in Gen V)

I don't see how anyone could hate the TMs being infinite now either, that is one of the greatest things ever done in the history of the games.

[AWsquared]

Originally Posted by Heracles4

On the contrary, B/W and their sequels are so frickin slow. It takes forever to walk, to enter a building, to exit a building, to talk to people, to enter the battles, to battle, to exit the battles. Pretty much everything. And I hate that it takes so long.

I also hate that there is no safari zone,the dream world, that poison doesn't hurt out of battle,TMs aren't a one time use anymore, etc


IMO, the gba games were the best...If only they could take them, put them on ds cartridge thingy-mabobbers, and take the new games and convert them into that format

If "B/W and their sequels are so frickin slow" is you're only reason as to why the games suck now, then that's not really a valid point. Actually it's quite the opposite , the games are faster and smoother than the originals. They have also improved a ton graphic wise and gameplay wise. I personally think that Black and White have the best story so far. And while I only just recently got Black2 and White2 , however they're really good games, probably better than Black and White 1. I think more people should loosen up their nostalgia goggles and give them a chance causethe series has improved a boat-load since Red and Blue. Yeah, I didn't like alot of the 5th generation Pokemon at first, but after playing Black and White, they've grown on me and I've gained alot of favorites. Same thing happened with Gen IV. I didn't like half of them until I started playing the games more and now they've grown on me and now I love them. The series has definitely evolved since Red and Blue.When I look back and play Red and Blue again now , I notice all the flaws they have. These flaws have since been greatly improved on. If you don't want to walk you can always ride your bike or use the Running Shoes. And also if you can't wait a few seconds to enter a building , then why bother with playing any of the games? (or any video game for that matter since most games require a good amount of patience. )

In a way you can say the Dream World is like a Safari Zone. There's also the Eastern part of Unova which has many non-Unova Pokemon that are available so I really see no need for a Safari Zone this time. It was fun though.
Poison no longer hurting outside of battle is actually a really good thing. I like not having to rush to the Pokemon center or use up Antidotes everytime a Pokemon is poisoned. And it's pretty much an improvement from the feature implimented in Gen IV where a Pokemon survives poisoning with 1 HP left when outside of battle. TMs having unlimited use is also a really good thing. Some TMs are only found in the wild and can't be bought and so having more an unlimited of them means you can teach as many Pokemon that moves as possible. So that's a much need improvement that I'm glad Game Freak implemented.

So actually Pokemon is far from ruined, it's vastly improving. All arguments I've seen that are pretty invalid arguments. Saying "The games suck and aren't what they used to be" isn't a good reason why they're bad. It's just stating an opinion actually, no real why the games are bad now adays. In my opinion, they aren't. They're much better.

[Hikari10]

I think 5th Generation games are totally awesome. I enjoyed Black and White, and I've only just started on Black 2 and White 2 and I have to say, the speed was a big improvement over 4th Generation and the use of infinite TMs was a featured well deserved. Also, 5th Generation is my fave for that and loads of other reasons, including the fact they broke a lot of trends seen in previous games.

I only started playing Pokemon games during the 3rd Generation, and if I were to compare today's games to the earliest generation, you can tell the graphics are much cooler now and the new features introduced made our lives easier.

Pokemon didn't get ruined, it got better and it will always continue to introduce new mechanics.

[Wind Heart]

I personally think Pokémon has become far way better than before. Items more organized in Gen 2, Abilities introduced in Gen 3, infinite (almost, x999) items storage in Gen 4, and infinite TM usage (and repel usage system in B2W2) in Gen 5! Pokémon is on the right track imo.

[Suicune™]

Different people have different views but I still love Pokemon and Black & White 2 are the best games since Emerald IMO.

[Wandering~Leaf]

I hate it when people do this (no offense). The games should never affect your love of Pokemon, because the love should be directed at the Pokemon. Even though I haven't played the Gens. I,II, or III, I still love those Generations anyways, because I've had the chance of being with those Pokemon all the same.

So really, I don't see the harm that the new versions have done to the franchise...I like most of the Pokemon in Generation 5, and that most likely won't change just because some sequels came out to it (although I did think that it was rather bland that the Legendary was just Reshiram/Kyurem, and Zekrom/Kyurem. :\).

[Tetrakeet]

These are my humble opinions..

I enjoyed Black and White a lot myself, and I started from Red/Blue. What I do dislike is the "expansion pack" route that Nintendo took with Black and White 2. Why? Because the reason I buy new Pokemon games is to discover new Pokemon, not play an entire "new" game without the 100s of new interesting Pokemon to catch.

I understand that some people may enjoy the DLC/expansion/sequel models for a lot of games and it does work well for many games. In my personal case, I was disappointed with Nintendo for not making a brand new Pokemon color and instead choosing to separate one game into two games. Obviously it was a smart financial move though, as Nintendo's income will undoubtedly double (or quadruple in the case of 1 person buying Black 1-2 and White 1-2).

The game industry must be worried in general because companies are dropping like flies recently. Pokemon seems to be playing it safe for now and using previously successful titles ("Soul" Silver, "Heart" Gold etc.) to maintain it's financial stability. I still have hope for a fresh new Pokemon game though, hopefully Nintendo is able to keep up the new Pokemon coming thanks to the income that Black and White 2 gave them.

Apart from Black and White 2, I have no other complaints with Pokemon games (the "colored" games) though.

P.S. I voted "Yes" since I liked nearly all of them, I do wish there was a "For the most part" option though.

[jellotime91]

I grew up with Pokemon... Started with RBY and then basically stopped playing Pokemon when RSE came around. Then, when DP came about, I couldn't resist spending the money from my very first paycheque to buy a DS Lite and Pokemon Diamond. I absolutely loved it. Then I kind of fell away from it again and didn't play Pokemon again until recently, when I bought a 3DS last November.

When I first played Pokemon Black, I thought the new Pokemon were absurd. I mean, an Ice cream cone? A BAG of GARBAGE? But then I remembered some of the most interesting Pokemon of gen 1: Muk? Koffing? Hitmonchan / Lee? Mr. Mime? Jynx? Voltorb? Magnemite? I mean what were these things?

I've since learned to appreciate the unique designs of Gen V. In every other respect (except the removal of Pokemon following you and the quick touch-screen menu), the BW games are indisputably better than the previous ones. The awesome storylines, the gorgeous (in DS standards) 3D cutscenes, the exciting battles with Pokemon that actually move! Gen 5 brought so many welcome changes to the series, despite the things it lacked, that I've learned to love it like I did Gen 1.

Where else could they really have gone with Pokemon? I mean, more recolours of animals like Squirtle? I'd rather have unique, original designs than gen 1 part 2.

[Pingouin7]

Originally Posted by dbp

All arguments about Pokemon being ruined are either "they changed it, now it sucks" or "they didn't change it, RUINED FOREVER"

This is exactly what I was going to say.

[Lapras*]

I don't know why I'm posting because dbp and others said it perfectly! The first generation games were only amazing because you were young you probably haven't played anything like this before. When you play BW, you've probably already played Pokemon a couple times and a bunch of other games and when you don't get the same feeling that you got the first time, it means that the game isn't as good, right? Eh.. it's just an opinion, really.

But honestly, I could never ever go back to the older generation games, they're just so different and the newer games are so much faster and smoother. I do agree with Heracles4 on one point though, it does take an awkwardly long time to enter a building as the game zooms in on the player. Also to exit a building, open your bag, your Pokemon, I'm just nitpicking here but I see what you're saying, it is annoying because like I said it's an awkward amount of time.

I think I might be one of the only people who actually doesn't like the first or second games as much, and I'm talking about the game itself, not the experience I had playing GSC. It's probably because I started with RSE and went backwards, and it was honestly just weird, everything was just so different and the newer games are so much better (I already said that but still). I had a great time playing GSC, it was really fun but I still don't think the games are amazing, there are/were a lot of flaws.