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Pokémon X & Pokémon Y The Kalos region awaits! Explore a new world, capture new Pokémon, and fight off Team Flare in the newest installment of the core Pokémon series.

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  #551    
Old March 19th, 2013 (10:22 PM).
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Originally Posted by XanderO View Post
No...I said it pretty loud and clear. I'd like for them to add a Wind type to the games. Flying =/= Wind. Many Wind attacks are not flying and so far the only 2 Pokemon based off of Wind are not Flying types. Wind and Flying don't have to have the same weaknesses or resistances. Like Wind could be SE to Rock due to erosion. Same with Ground. They are two separate types that don't directly involve one another.
It could happen, in fact I wouldn't be surprised at all if GF did this. When I first played pokemon, I was confused because rock and ground were two separate types, I thought they would be the same thing, but no. I was also confused when ghost and dark were two different types, so a wind type would totally make sense to me.

Perhaps the wind type would be not very effective against fire, because fire gets bigger when air is blown on it.

And besides, the move 'Tailwind' should be wind move.
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  #552    
Old March 19th, 2013 (10:33 PM). Edited March 19th, 2013 by Zorua.
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No...I said it pretty loud and clear. I'd like for them to add a Wind type to the games. Flying =/= Wind. Many Wind attacks are not flying and so far the only 2 Pokemon based off of Wind are not Flying types. Wind and Flying don't have to have the same weaknesses or resistances. Like Wind could be SE to Rock due to erosion. Same with Ground. They are two separate types that don't directly involve one another.
But yet you don't elaborate as to what weaknesses they have/don't have and what strengths they have/don't have. At the very core of things, flying and wind are essentially the same in the Pokemon World. Given that there's only a handful of "Wind" attacks so far (a good portion of them already having a type) what's the necessity for it? And how would it change competitive play? How would it benefit competitive play? If you're going to create a type, you'd best be prepared to answer the landslide of questions that come with it, because it is a pretty risky move that carries the consequence of throwing things off-balance. @_@;

And yes, you made it clear that Wind could potentially be SE to rock but...how can anything touch wind? You can't physically touch it, so how are you going to defeat it? If I'm correct, wind is also air, so in that sense, wind would be super effective against every Pokemon in existence bar Ghost types (and certain water types but Pokemon doesn't work like that), since they're already "dead" and I don't think they need to breathe, since Wind types can, to a more extreme, utilize asphyxiation attacks as well as utilize wind pressure and basically control their opponent's breathing and, if you want to get really technical, their entire bodily functions since, assuming that there's oxygen in the Pokemon world (borderlining on "duh" with this), and of course, both Pokemon and people breathe it, that gives wind the advantage already. You're breathing what could potentially kill you, and that applies both to real life and Pokemon.

There are just too many logical fallacies with Wind for it to be possible. And honestly, erosion sounds more like a status effect, because it's something that damages over time, same thing like what Poison does. But since it affects rocks only (and idk whether or not it affects steel types, but I assume so) it'd be fairly redundant.
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  #553    
Old March 20th, 2013 (12:38 AM).
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It seems like the majority of these Machine types would be part Steel though, wouldn't they? Especially if we're talking about Bionic parts, they could just be pure steel, if nothing else fits. I mean, it seems super cool, don't get me wrong, but what would they be weak to, and what would they be strong against? It's these kinds of things that are always on my mind when considering a new type!

I really didn't think of weaknesses. I probley think it would not have a weakness but not much of a strength either. It might make the battles exciting or maybe incrediable boring and long.

If it had any weakness, I that machine vs machine might be good or fire and water (as that is known as the most common machine weakness).

Although don't take it into depth, I just though it would be cool

Although if I had to choose a new type to be added, I would call it "Random".
Think about it, the pokemon equation (to work out how much damage is done) uses a random number. They have moves like metronome that uses a random move. It could be possible to use a Random type.

Although it just a idea.
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  #554    
Old March 20th, 2013 (08:39 AM).
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What would that be even weak to though? Nor is anything in the actual world, well, "random". I definitely don't see that happening. Maybe a Pokémon could be based on that concept and be a Normal type, but definitely not as a type all on its own.
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  #555    
Old March 20th, 2013 (09:03 AM).
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Originally Posted by Twilight Sky View Post
But yet you don't elaborate as to what weaknesses they have/don't have and what strengths they have/don't have. At the very core of things, flying and wind are essentially the same in the Pokemon World. Given that there's only a handful of "Wind" attacks so far (a good portion of them already having a type) what's the necessity for it? And how would it change competitive play? How would it benefit competitive play? If you're going to create a type, you'd best be prepared to answer the landslide of questions that come with it, because it is a pretty risky move that carries the consequence of throwing things off-balance. @_@;

And yes, you made it clear that Wind could potentially be SE to rock but...how can anything touch wind? You can't physically touch it, so how are you going to defeat it? If I'm correct, wind is also air, so in that sense, wind would be super effective against every Pokemon in existence bar Ghost types (and certain water types but Pokemon doesn't work like that), since they're already "dead" and I don't think they need to breathe, since Wind types can, to a more extreme, utilize asphyxiation attacks as well as utilize wind pressure and basically control their opponent's breathing and, if you want to get really technical, their entire bodily functions since, assuming that there's oxygen in the Pokemon world (borderlining on "duh" with this), and of course, both Pokemon and people breathe it, that gives wind the advantage already. You're breathing what could potentially kill you, and that applies both to real life and Pokemon.

There are just too many logical fallacies with Wind for it to be possible. And honestly, erosion sounds more like a status effect, because it's something that damages over time, same thing like what Poison does. But since it affects rocks only (and idk whether or not it affects steel types, but I assume so) it'd be fairly redundant.
I don't list any actual weaknesses/Strengths because it hasn't been made yet and others with a similar opinion may have a different idea of what it can be weak or strong against. In all of Pokemon's history WIND has never been associated with Flying type.

In the Pokemon World Rock and Ground would also be the same. Water and Ice would also be the same. They are all different elements.

As for touching. You cannot physically touch ghosts. You cannot physically touch fire. You cannot physically touch water. You cannot physically touch electricity. You cannot physically touch Psychic powers. You cannot physically touch darkness. You cannot physically touch the act of Fighting. You cannot physically touch Flying. Only if it has a solid form can you physically touch an object.

Ghosts are not real and in all stories their bodies are incorporeal. So you cannot touch. Water has less density than our bodies and we essentially slip through or absorb it but actually touching it is impossible as the molecular make up isn't something you can physically touch. We can feel it but not touch it. Fire isn't real. Its a light made illusion from extreme heat and gas. You cannot touch though you can still feel it. Electricity is a change or movement on a molecular scale. It can pass through our bodies but we cannot grasp or actually touch it. Psychic Powers are brought through force of mind. Thoughts and mind projections cannot be held or touched. Darkness is a lack of light. Its a shadow that is created when light is blocked. Cannot be touched as it doesn't have a physical form. Fighting is an action. While you can feel and touch the target of the action you cannot touch an action itself. Flying like fighting is an action.

You are also confusing Wind for Oxygen or being able to breath. That is incorrect you do not need oxygen for wind. You barely need air for wind. You just need a overlaying magnetic force to create a current and the force that flows along the current is the resulting wind. Space has wind in the form of Solar radiation currents.

There are too many logical facilities to completely destroy everything we know about Pokemon as is. Wind is more logically stable than most of the made up types we have in Pokemon. As for Erosion, Water is strong against Ground and Rock for that very reason. Otherwise Ground would either resist or be immune to water as Ground absorbs water to create nutrients. That aspect was given to Grass which is another spin off of the Ground Element as the Ground element represents all thing that are in the ground. Earth, rock, plant and metals.
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  #556    
Old March 20th, 2013 (09:04 AM).
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I don't see a reason for Wind type. Flying types use Wind in their attacks, More technically, Force of wind.Although flying and wind are not the same but they are deeply related.
It would be like demanding a different Grass type and a Leaf type.
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  #557    
Old March 20th, 2013 (09:24 AM).
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Flying was never associated with Wind though and most of the wind based attacks are not flying typed. By reverse, there is no need for Rock or Steel types because both are originally from Ground type. Water and Ice don't both need to exist as Ice is a sub element of Water. You can easily change Ice attacks to water and keep the freeze chance. Same with Rock attacks to ground. Some steel would be split between Ground and other elements. Bullet Punch would become fighting. Flash Cannon would become Normal. Gyro Ball possibly normal.

More reason for Wind than Ice or Rock. At least its element isn't associated with its so called replacement.
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  #558    
Old March 20th, 2013 (10:02 AM).
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In my opinion there dosent need to be a Wind type. Just change the Flying type to represent Wind/Air as well as Flying, I dont see why it needs to be a seperate type for it. I dont really see why this isnt already the case tbh but it's Pokemon, it dosent always make sense.
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  #559    
Old March 20th, 2013 (10:15 AM). Edited March 20th, 2013 by Zorua.
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In the Pokemon World Rock and Ground would also be the same. Water and Ice would also be the same. They are all different elements.
So is Psychic and Ghost, because those are supernatural things, so is Rock and Steel because they can be minerals also, and so is Dark and Ghost, because of forces of evil and darkness.

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As for touching. You cannot physically touch ghosts. You cannot physically touch fire. You cannot physically touch water. You cannot physically touch electricity. You cannot physically touch Psychic powers. You cannot physically touch darkness. You cannot physically touch the act of Fighting. You cannot physically touch Flying. Only if it has a solid form can you physically touch an object.
There are a few holes within your argument there. What is that sense that allows you to feel when you're burned by something, or hurt by something? I mean, by what you're implying through that argument, it apparently doesn't exist. :\ The sense of touch allows you to feel pain from fighting, it allows you to feel burns from fire, it allows you to feel the freezing cold of water as well as the frigid temperatures of Ice. They're not in SOLID tangible form yes, but you can still touch them and know immediately what they feel like.

As for Flying, I'm pretty sure you can touch a bird, since those are physical, and anything that has wings, of course. I mean, 3/4s of all flying types are birds, so...I'm pretty sure that's just for consistency purposes, but that's just me.

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Ghosts are not real and in all stories their bodies are incorporeal. So you cannot touch. Water has less density than our bodies and we essentially slip through or absorb it but actually touching it is impossible as the molecular make up isn't something you can physically touch. We can feel it but not touch it. Fire isn't real. Its a light made illusion from extreme heat and gas. You cannot touch though you can still feel it. Electricity is a change or movement on a molecular scale. It can pass through our bodies but we cannot grasp or actually touch it. Psychic Powers are brought through force of mind. Thoughts and mind projections cannot be held or touched. Darkness is a lack of light. Its a shadow that is created when light is blocked. Cannot be touched as it doesn't have a physical form. Fighting is an action. While you can feel and touch the target of the action you cannot touch an action itself. Flying like fighting is an action.
  • Ghosts have the ability to materialize themselves into a physical form. Therefore, in a very strict sense, they are able to be touched, hence is why moves other than normal or fighting (that have direct contact) can affect them.
  • You have a very solid point about Electricity as well as Fire and Water, so I'll leave those alone.
  • You can't really physically touch Psychic energy. That I agree with. However, Psychic energy cannot simply come out of nowhere, there has to be a physical form controlling it.
  • Darkness I agree with, but I believe Dark is more like an act an evil more than anything else, and in a very strict sense, you can defeat whatever is "evil", and therefore making dark tangible in that sense. However, that theory is very far-fetched, so I'll give you the rest.

The point that I'm getting at is that it just...wouldn't make sense to me if wind was introduced. Fighting is more of a representation or symbolism to Pokemon who resemble blackbelts, or heroes, or things of that nature. I mean, in my perspective, you're tackling whats supposed to be a representation and instead turning it into something non-physical. Something that applies to pretty much every single type in Pokemon. Minus rock and steel, of course.

You're probably going to make an argument about "well, can wind be a representation?" Yeah, of course. But answer this: What creatures are supposed to symbolize wind? Considering that birds as well as other flying beings are technically of the "flying" type, what do you have left? Yeah sure, you have Suicune, who's technically the embodiment of the North Wind, but also keep in mind that Suicune's role has very little to do with the wind itself as much as it does purifying the waters that it comes across. You don't see Suicune guarding "Wind", you see it guarding water, and being around water, making it's home around water, hence water type.


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There are too many logical facilities to completely destroy everything we know about Pokemon as is. Wind is more logically stable than most of the made up types we have in Pokemon. As for Erosion, Water is strong against Ground and Rock for that very reason. Otherwise Ground would either resist or be immune to water as Ground absorbs water to create nutrients. That aspect was given to Grass which is another spin off of the Ground Element as the Ground element represents all thing that are in the ground. Earth, rock, plant and metals.
If there's too many logical fallacies, then why are you applying logic to Wind, as if it would make it any more logically possible than the rest of the existing types? You continue to say that yes, Flying and Wind are different things, but why can't Flying types learn wind attacks? They have wings for a reason, do they? I mean, how the heck else can Zapdos learn Heat Wave, as well as other Pokemon like Honchkrow? Heck, I'd argue that a good amount of Pokemon that are flying types can learn a good amount of "wind" attacks (whirlwind, gust etc), so why do you continue to push for it as a separate type?

And you're probably going to make the argument that "well Derk, that's silly, because that means other Pokemon that can learn moves of other types don't make sense, either". But then again, you would neglect what I said about representation. Heck, if GF wanted to make a Wind type, shouldn't Tornadus be that perfect Pokemon for it? It's ENTIRELY based on wind, and there isn't anything that's not "Wind"-y/ish about it. But for the sake of consistency, it's flying, as making it Wind-type would make no sense whatsoever, because even though that you point out differences between Wind and Flying, those differences are very minimal at best.

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there is no need for Rock or Steel types because both are originally from Ground type
I'd disagree with you with that, because Ground hardens into rock which hardens into steel (if I'm correct on this) . Yes, it's an evolutionary process which totally makes sense, and all three have different weaknesses as well as different strengths. I don't believe you can erode something that's technically steel-hard (but I could be wrong on that), but you could on something that's either rock or ground. You can freeze something that's steel, but I doubt it would do much, hence not very effective, while on the other hand, freezing temperatures might break down regular rocks as well as make soil very uninhabitable for plants, hence Ice being supereffective against both. Technically, if you were strong enough, you can break steel (somehow) and you can break apart rocks, hence fighting being super-effective against both. But I don't see what punching the ground would do on a significant level, which is why it's neutral for the most part.

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Water and Ice don't both need to exist as Ice is a sub element of Water. You can easily change Ice attacks to water and keep the freeze chance.
And as such, attacks like Blizzard and Ice beam, as well as Aurora Beam as well as Hail would suddenly just disappear, right? .__. Of course, all of these things come from one basis: Water. And it's a process how water can turn into hail as well as ice. You're also forgetting that this is a children's Pokemon game and I don't think making a complex process of water having a freeze chance and educating them on that would entirely make the most sense. What makes sense to most is this: Ice can freeze, and Water can either drown you or can burn. Yes, it makes total sense that diving into freezing water can indeed cause frostbite as well as hypothermia, but why go into the technicalities, as that's not the point in a Pokemon game?

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Bullet Punch would become fighting. Flash Cannon would become Normal. Gyro Ball possibly normal.
This I agree with you, as I'm not entirely sure why Bullet Punch is a steel move in general. I can only go through the huge assumption (going by the name here) that it means striking with the force of a bullet, and since the material of a bullet (depending on which one you use) could blast apart rocks, I believe that it's something stronger than rock, hence steel.

Flash Cannon is more like an attack of light more than anything else, but as we all know, light-type doesn't exist yet. I would imagine. Gyro Ball makes sense in the fact that you're getting hit by something EXTREMELY slow and yet you're getting hit very hard at the same time. Note that there is no steel type with a speed above 90 that can learn this move (and even if they could, it wouldn't be very effective). Steel types aren't known for being very fast types at all, so I can see why this would make sense above all.

I guess at a very huge stretch (going back to the Flash Cannon argument here), Flash cannon would technically come from Steel types bending light into some sort of offensive attack, but again, that's a stretch.

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More reason for Wind than Ice or Rock. At least its element isn't associated with its so called replacement.
Less reason actually, because Wind, again, has no representation of anything. Water and Ice can be related, but what is Wind supposed to be related to?

EDIT: I don't mean to come across as rude or anything in this post! I'm just very passionate about this stuff. :x Sorry if it comes off that way.
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  #560    
Old March 20th, 2013 (10:52 AM).
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If they ever make a wind or Air type I imagine it being Strong against electric, and weak against fire (because flames absorb air), and electricity is weakened/slowed down by air resistance. Also it'll be useful as Electric has only one weakness, that being Ground, heck Gen V introduced an electric type with no weaknesses because it's ability negates ground attacks...
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  #561    
Old March 20th, 2013 (09:03 PM).
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Originally Posted by Twilight Sky View Post
So is Psychic and Ghost, because those are supernatural things, so is Rock and Steel because they can be minerals also, and so is Dark and Ghost, because of forces of evil and darkness.
Psychic and Ghost are two different spectrums of Supernatural forces. Psychic Energy is from a living brain while ghosts are the remains of souls that did not pass on. Both foundation for each is completely different. Ghosts also are not evil, neither is darkness. Darkness is only associated as evil for religious purposes. It is an unknown entity and cannot be fathomed by normal men. Since it is so mysterious, it is deemed evil out of pretext.


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There are a few holes within your argument there. What is that sense that allows you to feel when you're burned by something, or hurt by something? I mean, by what you're implying through that argument, it apparently doesn't exist. :\ The sense of touch allows you to feel pain from fighting, it allows you to feel burns from fire, it allows you to feel the freezing cold of water as well as the frigid temperatures of Ice. They're not in SOLID tangible form yes, but you can still touch them and know immediately what they feel like.
Feeling is a Sense. Touch is an action. They are completely different. You can feel without touching and you can touch without feeling. Watch fear factor or any of those shows where they just try to freak people out. One of the most common things is to bury them alive. MANY people halucinate and start feeling things crawling over them. They can actually feel insects or unknown creatures crawling over their bodies yet there is no contact made as there is nothing there. They feel something but they are not touching anything. Same if you try a placebo experiment. You give some people a sugar pill. Tell them what symptoms they are going to feel. 1 out of almost every group will start to feel the symptoms even though what was given to them was just a sugar pill.

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As for Flying, I'm pretty sure you can touch a bird, since those are physical, and anything that has wings, of course. I mean, 3/4s of all flying types are birds, so...I'm pretty sure that's just for consistency purposes, but that's just me.
Not all flying types are birds and again Flying is an action not an element. Many things can fly you can touch all of these things that can fly, but you cannot touch the actual action of flying.



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  • Ghosts have the ability to materialize themselves into a physical form. Therefore, in a very strict sense, they are able to be touched, hence is why moves other than normal or fighting (that have direct contact) can affect them.
  • You have a very solid point about Electricity as well as Fire and Water, so I'll leave those alone.
  • You can't really physically touch Psychic energy. That I agree with. However, Psychic energy cannot simply come out of nowhere, there has to be a physical form controlling it.
  • Darkness I agree with, but I believe Dark is more like an act an evil more than anything else, and in a very strict sense, you can defeat whatever is "evil", and therefore making dark tangible in that sense. However, that theory is very far-fetched, so I'll give you the rest.
  • Ghosts are completely incorporeal. If you are going by Pokemon standards, each of them are contradictions to their own movesets more than half the time. Gastly and Misdreavous are made completely of gas. There is no solid form for either of them. Gastly in one Anime could not be hit by any physical attack what so ever. In a more modern view, ghosts are what was left of your soul that didn't pass on due to what ever lingering feelings. In most of the oldest myths, you could not touch a ghost nor could they touch you. Some if you tried a ghost could steal your soul and kill you without even touching you. They just pass through and grab your soul and pulls it out of your body. The only two ways to get rid of ghosts were through spiritually charged mediums (in the forms of tags in japan, dolls that were blessed by priests, or with magnetic iron as it dissipate their forms.
  • Psychic energy is energy of the mind and nothing else. Its all mental control and force. Most of the times a psychic blast controls the air around and slams the air with force similar to a sonic boom. There is no physical force in psychic energy.
  • Darkness as stated is not evil. Its unknown. People fear the unknown and just slap labels on everything like that to prevent others from following a path they cannot follow.

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The point that I'm getting at is that it just...wouldn't make sense to me if wind was introduced. Fighting is more of a representation or symbolism to Pokemon who resemble blackbelts, or heroes, or things of that nature. I mean, in my perspective, you're tackling whats supposed to be a representation and instead turning it into something non-physical. Something that applies to pretty much every single type in Pokemon. Minus rock and steel, of course.
Well then, now we are getting into personal opinions. There is no right or wrong in personal opinions. That's why they are called that. There are many types right now that many fans find pointless just as you see Wind. I don't see a reason for Rock and Ground split, but I'm a traditional RPGist. My Ground element even includes Grass, Roots, Wood, and Leaves.

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You're probably going to make an argument about "well, can wind be a representation?" Yeah, of course. But answer this: What creatures are supposed to symbolize wind? Considering that birds as well as other flying beings are technically of the "flying" type, what do you have left? Yeah sure, you have Suicune, who's technically the embodiment of the North Wind, but also keep in mind that Suicune's role has very little to do with the wind itself as much as it does purifying the waters that it comes across. You don't see Suicune guarding "Wind", you see it guarding water, and being around water, making it's home around water, hence water type.
Actually we already have Pokemon that represent wind. You don't need one specific animal or creature to represent it. There are always many creatures that make up an element. Fiaries while traditionally don't hold to one specific element are a good example of possible wind element creatures. Harpies are another. We have a demon god that controls the winds through magic and fans (Tengu) already used. We have a Demon God of Storms (Fuujin) and Demon God of thunderous weather (Raijin). We even have a wolf like creature that embodies the north wind. They can even go as far as to create litteral wind bodied creatures like a living whirlwind. Many RPGs have done to.




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If there's too many logical fallacies, then why are you applying logic to Wind, as if it would make it any more logically possible than the rest of the existing types? You continue to say that yes, Flying and Wind are different things, but why can't Flying types learn wind attacks? They have wings for a reason, do they? I mean, how the heck else can Zapdos learn Heat Wave, as well as other Pokemon like Honchkrow? Heck, I'd argue that a good amount of Pokemon that are flying types can learn a good amount of "wind" attacks (whirlwind, gust etc), so why do you continue to push for it as a separate type?
Why am I trying to apply logic when Pokemon is already incredibly illogical? Because you are trying to use logic to discredit a reason for a new type. Not all flying types have wings also so using "they have wings for a reason" is a poorly built defense. A lot of wind based creatures didn't have wings. Some could fly without wings through use of the wind alone.

The Quilin or Kirin is usually associated with Wind/Lighting attributes. (chinese Quilin is earth elemented as its also known as the Yellow Dragon.)
The Azure Dragon in Chinese mythology is wingless and represents Wood, but controls the element of wind.

I can't remember the name of it and its proving hard to find, but there is a beast who's howls cause hurricane like storms to appear. He could also blow hurricane force wind from his mouth.


Quote:
And you're probably going to make the argument that "well Derk, that's silly, because that means other Pokemon that can learn moves of other types don't make sense, either". But then again, you would neglect what I said about representation. Heck, if GF wanted to make a Wind type, shouldn't Tornadus be that perfect Pokemon for it? It's ENTIRELY based on wind, and there isn't anything that's not "Wind"-y/ish about it. But for the sake of consistency, it's flying, as making it Wind-type would make no sense whatsoever, because even though that you point out differences between Wind and Flying, those differences are very minimal at best.
If they add a Wind type whose to say he won't lose his flying type? Actually all three of the Kami Trio would fit in fairly well. Also Tornadus doesn't learn all the wind based attacks as odd as it is. He's based off of the Demon god of Storm but doesn't learn all the wind based attacks.



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I'd disagree with you with that, because Ground hardens into rock which hardens into steel (if I'm correct on this) . Yes, it's an evolutionary process which totally makes sense, and all three have different weaknesses as well as different strengths. I don't believe you can erode something that's technically steel-hard (but I could be wrong on that), but you could on something that's either rock or ground. You can freeze something that's steel, but I doubt it would do much, hence not very effective, while on the other hand, freezing temperatures might break down regular rocks as well as make soil very uninhabitable for plants, hence Ice being supereffective against both. Technically, if you were strong enough, you can break steel (somehow) and you can break apart rocks, hence fighting being super-effective against both. But I don't see what punching the ground would do on a significant level, which is why it's neutral for the most part.
Everything can erode. Even steel eventually gives out to constant beating through some element. Actually freezing metal makes it brittle which makes it easier to break. Also Ice isn't super effective against rock, just ground. Steel resists ice while Rock is neutral. Also hitting steel upon steel will break steel. Fighting or not, as there is more than just physically picking up and using an item that creates force. Propelling steel through use of another machine or even simply dropping it. Steel on steel, one of the steels will break. Yet, in Pokemon Steel resists Steel type.


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And as such, attacks like Blizzard and Ice beam, as well as Aurora Beam as well as Hail would suddenly just disappear, right? .__. Of course, all of these things come from one basis: Water. And it's a process how water can turn into hail as well as ice. You're also forgetting that this is a children's Pokemon game and I don't think making a complex process of water having a freeze chance and educating them on that would entirely make the most sense. What makes sense to most is this: Ice can freeze, and Water can either drown you or can burn. Yes, it makes total sense that diving into freezing water can indeed cause frostbite as well as hypothermia, but why go into the technicalities, as that's not the point in a Pokemon game?
No one said anything about getting rid of attacks. Retyping an attack simply retypes it. Hail would now be a water move, same with Ice beam and Blizzard if Blizzard weren't retyped as wind. I'm also not forgetting anything. Its still a game that uses a good number of basic sciences with in it. The freeze cycle as well as evaporation cycles are taught in kindergarden. To 5 and 6 year olds. The games are made for 10 year olds. Its a concept that they can understand. Please don't put words in my mouth.



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This I agree with you, as I'm not entirely sure why Bullet Punch is a steel move in general. I can only go through the huge assumption (going by the name here) that it means striking with the force of a bullet, and since the material of a bullet (depending on which one you use) could blast apart rocks, I believe that it's something stronger than rock, hence steel.

Flash Cannon is more like an attack of light more than anything else, but as we all know, light-type doesn't exist yet. I would imagine. Gyro Ball makes sense in the fact that you're getting hit by something EXTREMELY slow and yet you're getting hit very hard at the same time. Note that there is no steel type with a speed above 90 that can learn this move (and even if they could, it wouldn't be very effective). Steel types aren't known for being very fast types at all, so I can see why this would make sense above all.

I guess at a very huge stretch (going back to the Flash Cannon argument here), Flash cannon would technically come from Steel types bending light into some sort of offensive attack, but again, that's a stretch.
To kinda kill your stretch. There is a WELL known Light based Normal attack called Flash. Flash Cannon. Flash. Normal typed. Also Morning Sun and Moonlight are both Normal attacks.



Quote:
Less reason actually, because Wind, again, has no representation of anything. Water and Ice can be related, but what is Wind supposed to be related to?
All the more reason to add it in and give it proper recognition other than a similar way that Sound attacks exist. Sound is already an unofficial type thanks to Sound Proof categorizing which moves don't work.


Quote:
Originally Posted by MRAS
If they ever make a wind or Air type I imagine it being Strong against electric, and weak against fire (because flames absorb air), and electricity is weakened/slowed down by air resistance. Also it'll be useful as Electric has only one weakness, that being Ground, heck Gen V introduced an electric type with no weaknesses because it's ability negates ground attacks...
Sorta a point to what I've said before. I would never have made this assoicaition, so my "Wind Type" wouldn't have been SE against Electric or Weak to Fire. Makes sense as I think about it, but I never would have thought of this on my own.
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  #562    
Old March 20th, 2013 (10:24 PM).
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i want a grass/dragon evo of tropius
and also some new normal/??? types
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  #563    
Old March 21st, 2013 (01:47 AM).
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What would that be even weak to though? Nor is anything in the actual world, well, "random". I definitely don't see that happening. Maybe a Pokémon could be based on that concept and be a Normal type, but definitely not as a type all on its own.
Gastly is just a ball of gas, and so is Haunter, but you can still hit them. Basically, in Pokemon you throw a rock at a ball of gas and it kills it (Pokemon Logic), so I still believe there to be no problem with a wind type.
Even then, just because it is wind type doesn't mean it can't have a physical form. Golurk is part ghost, yet it technically isn't a ghost, just a giant automaton. IMO, the Gengar line are the only actual ghosts. Sure Spiritomb, Dusknoir, and Cohagrigus are ghosts to some extent, except they are ghosts that can be hit by any attack (aside from normal and fighting).
Just because wind is technically unable to be hit, neither are ghosts but they can be hit in the pokemon world, so THERE! I WIN IN THIS ARGUMENT
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  #564    
Old March 21st, 2013 (02:03 AM).
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Magmaruby and Aquasapphire View Post
If they ever make a wind or Air type I imagine it being Strong against electric, and weak against fire (because flames absorb air), and electricity is weakened/slowed down by air resistance. Also it'll be useful as Electric has only one weakness, that being Ground, heck Gen V introduced an electric type with no weaknesses because it's ability negates ground attacks...
I'm sorry, but I just thought of Naruto and types of chakra.

I wouldn't see there being a wind type, a lot of flying types would change type otherwise.
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Old March 21st, 2013 (03:16 AM).
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Even then, just because it is wind type doesn't mean it can't have a physical form. Golurk is part ghost, yet it technically isn't a ghost, just a giant automaton. IMO, the Gengar line are the only actual ghosts. Sure Spiritomb, Dusknoir, and Cohagrigus are ghosts to some extent, except they are ghosts that can be hit by any attack (aside from normal and fighting).
Just because wind is technically unable to be hit, neither are ghosts but they can be hit in the pokemon world, so THERE! I WIN IN THIS ARGUMENT
Just to clarify that the Gengar line is also vulnerable to all attacks besides normal and fighting (also that there's abilities such as Scrappy that allow the user to hit Ghosts with Normal attacks). The only attack that does not affect them is ground. With Xander's acknowledgement of what would be representative of Wind-type, you're really only at the tip of the iceberg, as you would then have to figure out how it would flesh out as far as type balancing as well as competitively. Though MRAS' post seems to make the most sense regarding that.

Also, Golurk is a suit of armor possessed by a Ghost. It can be argued that Golurk's true form is never seen, so in that perspective, it's ghost-like in everyway. But I digress.
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  #566    
Old March 21st, 2013 (08:55 AM). Edited March 21st, 2013 by Guy.
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So this has been going on for a little while, but just as a reminder and not to confuse the two, but speculation about new types (i.e Machine, Wind, etc., etc.) can be directed and discussed over in the "An introduction of new types...?" thread. This thread here is just for speculation about new Pokémon ideas and type combinations [that haven't been used yet].
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  #567    
Old March 21st, 2013 (04:52 PM).
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Just to kind of carry the topic away from that, I'd love to see an Electric/Grass type. I have no idea what I would even base it off of, but I just really want to see one. Only weak to Fire and Ice, but neutral to pretty much everything else for the most part.
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Old March 21st, 2013 (05:10 PM).
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Just to kind of carry the topic away from that, I'd love to see an Electric/Grass type. I have no idea what I would even base it off of, but I just really want to see one. Only weak to Fire and Ice, but neutral to pretty much everything else for the most part.
That'd be awesome! Two of my favorites types into one Pokemon ♥

Dark/Psychic is something I'd like to see. 4x Weakness to Bug, but neutral to everything else, iirc? It'd be quite interesting. xD
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Old March 21st, 2013 (05:13 PM).
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Dark/Psychic is something I'd like to see. 4x Weakness to Bug, but neutral to everything else, iirc? It'd be quite interesting. xD
Also immune to Psychic, but that is pretty much fine. It's coverage isn't fantastic but it's STAB would hit everything except Dark and Steel for at least neutral damage. Not too shabby, plus it's super-effective hits are very shallow, so no big deal!
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Old March 21st, 2013 (06:56 PM).
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Dark+Psychic can be really funny and awesome. It would fit with some nasty mind controller (kind of Hypno's cousin :D) with rattled and a focus sash and some uber spatk it can probably be a beast, especially if it can learn some fire and/or fighting move, hmm....

Grass+Electric can be good a good tank, or with serene grace + introducing some grass move that can inflict some status alitement or let it be able to learn leaf blade and wild charge hmm...
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  #571    
Old March 21st, 2013 (07:45 PM).
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I could definitely see the Grass/Electric type being a solid offensive Pokémon. It has two types that compliment each other with great synergy, so it could definitely hit stuff with a wide range of moves. It could have things on the special spectrum (Giga Drain, Thunderbolt), and physical spectrum (Wild Charge, maybe Leaf Blade?), so it could be pretty versatile.
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Old March 22nd, 2013 (04:48 AM).
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Electric/Grass, hmm interesting type combination, I like it!
I found a (fanmade) grass/electric pokemon on Google images and I thought it was pretty cool:
Spoiler:


It looks like a special attacker but I think it could learn leaf blade.
I also made my own evo for this poke, it's called Lillamp (Lilly and lamp), stats:

Hp: 120
Atk: 90
Def: 100
SpAtk: 105
SpDef: 120
Spd 5
BST: 540

A special wall, and a physical wall to some extent, and is also has decent special attack as well as mediocre attack. It's speed is just horrible though. Maybe it could be offensive instead?

Hp: 60
Atk: 130
Def: 65
SpAtk: 95
SpDef: 70
Spd 120
BST: 540

Physical sweeper with OK special attack, but terrible defenses.
Powerful, but one ice shard will take it out easy.
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  #573    
Old March 22nd, 2013 (05:27 AM).
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I'd love an Ice/Rock Pokémon, but it would need to have Tyranitar-like stats to be even remotely viable. Weak to Stealth Rock, 4x weak to Fighting, 4x weak to Bullet Punch, not a very good defensive type at all.
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Old March 22nd, 2013 (05:35 AM).
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It can be viable in the lower tiers, though, given that Bullet Punch doesn't exist there. Would also have an interesting design likely, too. :3
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  #575    
Old March 22nd, 2013 (11:10 AM).
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Only problem is that it's still weak to the common Mach Punch down there =P But I do think that it would potentially look awesome!
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