X/Y General Chat and Speculation

[Elendil]

Yeah HM's becoming natural traits would be better. I just don't get the logic that you need a fancy disc to teach your Pokemon how to swim, how to fly or go against a current. I mean really, they fly, swim, and do all the other stuff by natural survival skills, why not have them as such.

[François]

Originally Posted by vaporeon7

Nah, HMs are too important. What if you taught over Surf or something and trapped yourself?

You can just teach Surf again. They're reusable, remember!

[vaporeon7]

Maybe you can't use a fire attack to burn down a tree because there would still be fire when the tree is burning... idek.

[Suicune™]

They could even revert back to the old method of having limited TMS, although unlikely it's still something they could do which would be in favor of keeping HMS.

[Elendil]

Originally Posted by Suicune™

They could even revert back to the old method of having limited TMS, although unlikely it's still something they could do which would be in favor of keeping HMS.

I can't fault you for wanting a tradition being kept, but its a stagnating own, and it just slows things down. Everyone has their opinions though, and I'm glad you're sticking up for them. But man, wanting the world burn by reverting back to 1 one use TM's to give HM's a reason? You sir are sick.

[SnowpointQuincy]

Tackle now does 50 Normal-Type Damage. HM01 Cut does 50 Normal-Type Damage. Do you see a problem here. This HM move is as strong as an attack most pokemon know when they are BORN.

Compare that to Surf which is arguably the best Water attack in the game.

Cut and Slash should be combined into one move. 70 Power +1 Crit Stage - teachable to any pokemon who could learn Cut before - would make that HM useable. That increases the odds of a player having Cut with him.

As it is now, you never use Cut because in handicaps your Pokemon.

[Suicune™]

Originally Posted by Elendil

I can't fault you for wanting a tradition being kept, but its a stagnating own, and it just slows things down. Everyone has their opinions though, and I'm glad you're sticking up for them. But man, wanting the world burn by reverting back to 1 one use TM's to give HM's a reason? You sir are sick.

I'm not saying I want them to revert back, I support the infinite TM feature I'm just keeping the options open of what they could do.

[Magmaruby and Aquasapphire]

They'll most likely keep HM's they're like the Grass-Fire-Water starter trio,evil team, league, badges, a standard of the game.

[PokémonShinySilver]

Yep, HMs will make a return to Pokémon X and Y, no doubt about it. Acting in the same way as their predecessors did, and probably would remain that HM moves can't be forgotten normally unless you go to the move deleter, which would make the Pokémon forget the HM move.

[vaporeon7]

Originally Posted by François

You can just teach Surf again. They're reusable, remember!

But what if you were surfing at the time... would you just sink? Or what if someone traded the Pokémon with the move and you didn't have the HM yet?

[Aerilyn]

Originally Posted by vaporeon7

Or what if someone traded the Pokémon with the move and you didn't have the HM yet?

You wouldn't be able to use the move outside of battle until you receive the badge that is required before using the HM move on the field.

I don't believe HMs are going anywhere, even though I do prefer the idea of using certain Pokémon with certain field capabilities to navigate yourself around obstacles a la the Pokémon Ranger games. Which I still believe they could use in the main rpg's so trainers don't move off course too quickly.

Other than that, maybe we can expect a new HM or two like we did in DPPt. But if it's anything as useless as Defog, omg... :|

[Forever]

ya I'm hoping they don't make a repeat of Defog either. It was just... so useless. But by this generation I doubt HMs will have as much use as they did in the past anyways, and rather there will be more alternatives for the most part.

[glitchguy]

Yeah i hope they don't make something like Flash or Defog again.Actually i'd like to see more non-HM moves used outside of battle like for example Explosion used to clear out debris or blow down walls or something.

[vaporeon7]

Originally Posted by Aerilyn

You wouldn't be able to use the move outside of battle until you receive the badge that is required before using the HM move on the field.

Yeah but like Cut in R/B/Y. If you traded a Pokémon with Cut in, you never had to go on the SS. Anne and you could still use it/

[XanderO]

Originally Posted by Aerilyn

You wouldn't be able to use the move outside of battle until you receive the badge that is required before using the HM move on the field.

I don't believe HMs are going anywhere, even though I do prefer the idea of using certain Pokémon with certain field capabilities to navigate yourself around obstacles a la the Pokémon Ranger games. Which I still believe they could use in the main rpg's so trainers don't move off course too quickly.

Other than that, maybe we can expect a new HM or two like we did in DPPt. But if it's anything as useless as Defog, omg...

They stopped needing Badges to use HMs in Gen 5. I don't think they'll get rid of HMs either. HMs have been in the games for too long to be randomly removed.

[Twilight Sky]

Honestly, my expectations are(sadly) that this game might be a repeat of the previous games as far as HMs and whatnot are concerned. I don't think that we should expect any sort of dramatic overhaul in the games, at least that's how I feel. As much as i would like HMs to go away and for Pokemon to just use their natural instincts to guide you through caves and lakes and the like, they've been too much of a traditional thing to get rid of, as Xander already said~ u_u

That being said though, I do agree that, if possible, that there's at least a sparkle of hope for something as a possible alternative to HMs. While they've been a part of us for a really long time, a bit of change definitely wouldn't hurt.

[CycloneGU]

Originally Posted by .EJ

In that aspect, it's up to the reader to decide what to believe and what not to believe. As I pointed out it's a speculation thread so as it stands I'm pretty sure most people are aware that an eeveelution isn't confirmed. A simple Google search can clear up any doubts or rumors if somebody actually believes some of the speculation here. To limit the way people speak or word their sentences in a speculation thread is borderline ridiculous man (excluding forum rules).

My point is that people are coming here, reading all the Eeveelution discussion, and going away with the knowledge that an Eeveelution is coming. It's not even confirmed yet.

Originally Posted by Suicune™

We can't base it off a pattern since there's been a couple of occasions where we've had eeveelutons and then none. We could get an eeveelution with all this promotion of Eevee but then that could be irrelevant to Gen VI, we just don't know. It also could be any of the remaining types since they all have potential to be an eeveelution. IMO I think we could well get a flying type Eeveelution.

Flying-type Eeveelution comes to my mind as a nice one, as well. A Dragon-type would be a difficult one to use as I also find other Dragon-types (since they are weak to themselves) so I wouldn't want to see that type.

Originally Posted by Pinkie-Dawn

With TMs now becoming reusable and the existence of non-HM moves like Flash, there's really no point in having HMs back, because really, new players will think it's lame to have certain reusable moves that can't be removed easily.

HMs are blocked from use outside of battle until certain Gyms are beaten. I haven't seen GF do this with TMs, though some hacks have prevented these from use outside of battle in hacks.

Originally Posted by vaporeon7

Nah, HMs are too important. What if you taught over Surf or something and trapped yourself?

Let's complicate this. You get to a city only accessible by water. You then reach the PC and start organizing your Pokés, and accidentally say goodbye to your Surf and Whirlpool user (I've done accidents before, I just quit without saving). You are literally trapped on the island unless there happen to be more Surf users in the water around the island. Furthermore, you have to be able to fish for them; without the fishing rod, you ARE actually trapped.

Obviously the player can take care of this by catching as many Pokémon as possible, but if you really want to account for something like what you suggested, let's think about the fact that you can reteach an HM move to the original learner. Once you say goodbye to someone, you can't get that back.

Originally Posted by SnowpointQuincy

Tackle now does 50 Normal-Type Damage. HM01 Cut does 50 Normal-Type Damage. Do you see a problem here. This HM move is as strong as an attack most pokemon know when they are BORN.

Yes, Cut needs an upgrade in power. Tackle may one day exceed Cut otherwise.

Originally Posted by vaporeon7

But what if you were surfing at the time... would you just sink? Or what if someone traded the Pokémon with the move and you didn't have the HM yet?

Touche, sir, on the sinking.

However, if you receive a Surf user in trade, chances are the game would still disallow it outside of battle; after all, you have to receive the HM to use it normally, and this is usually programmed in a spot either before or immediately after you can start using it.

Originally Posted by XanderO

They stopped needing Badges to use HMs in Gen 5. I don't think they'll get rid of HMs either. HMs have been in the games for too long to be randomly removed.

Really? I missed this somehow?

Cyclone

[Magmaruby and Aquasapphire]

I hope they do the badge and HM thing, Gen 5 had very little use for HM so I guess it was justified but it also made it too easy. I hope this region has more harsh terrain that needs rock crushing, surfing, and climbing up slopes and waterfalls.

[Scarf]

Originally Posted by Magmaruby and Aquasapphire

I hope they do the badge and HM thing, Gen 5 had very little use for HM so I guess it was justified but it also made it too easy. I hope this region has more harsh terrain that needs rock crushing, surfing, and climbing up slopes and waterfalls.

I hope that whatever terrain obstacles they put in place are only to give you access to areas that you don't need to go to in order to get through the game, or that they are only for shortcuts. Give us the option of avoiding the use of HMs, even if it means a circuitous route full of tall grass. I really want to be able to run through a route without having to turn around and run back to the Pokecenter to grab my Route 1 Normal-type that knows Cut.

[Magmaruby and Aquasapphire]

What's the point of HM's if one doesn't use them in the main path...it seems like they would simply be taking up space if they did that.
For HM's I'll like to see Flash, Cut, Fly,Surf, Waterfall,Rock Climb,and Dive, and the 8th if they have an eighth should be a new move...if not than Whirlpool.

[Aerilyn]

Originally Posted by Scarf

I hope that whatever terrain obstacles they put in place are only to give you access to areas that you don't need to go to in order to get through the game, or that they are only for shortcuts. Give us the option of avoiding the use of HMs, even if it means a circuitous route full of tall grass. I really want to be able to run through a route without having to turn around and run back to the Pokecenter to grab my Route 1 Normal-type that knows Cut.

Should they do that, then I think the point of HMs entirely would be mute. Although, having said that, the need for HMs in Gen V overall was kept pretty minimum anyway. I almost thought it unnecessary to have them in Black and White. With your proposal, I think it would be best if they scrapped the HMs altogether and used field-type abilities to remove obstacles in our way like I had mentioned earlier.

With the minimum requirement for HMs in B/W, the cut from eight to six, and the removal of needing to beat gyms to use them, perhaps it's likely GameFreak is slowly phasing away from the HMs system altogether? Just putting that out there.

Originally Posted by Magmaruby and Aquasapphire

What's the point of HM's if one doesn't use them in the main path...it seems like they would simply be taking up space if they did that.
For HM's I'll like to see Flash, Cut, Fly,Surf, Waterfall,Rock Climb,and Dive, and the 8th if they have an eighth should be a new move...if not than Whirlpool.

You really want to have Flash back as an HM? D:

[vaporeon7]

If they make Flash a HM, I'd like to see it be able to be used in more places. They could even make it needed to be able to see something in a cave or building.

[Miss Doronjo]

Eh, truth be told, I'd much rather have a key item like a flashlight than a HM flash. After a while, there's really not much purpose of Flash than going through only one tunnel or something.

I did like how they made the use of HMs more optional of getting certain items, or getting past certain obstacles to get to secret places - I'd like that to be seen in X&Y.

[CycloneGU]

Originally Posted by Magmaruby and Aquasapphire

What's the point of HM's if one doesn't use them in the main path...it seems like they would simply be taking up space if they did that.

I present for your consideration Unova Route 23. Nice little area where Cut is used off the beaten path. And Cut is still one that I think should stay an HM.

Originally Posted by vaporeon7

If they make Flash a HM, I'd like to see it be able to be used in more places. They could even make it needed to be able to see something in a cave or building.

Flash once was an HM. They changed it to a TM probably due to limited use. In fact, I replaced Psychic (a TM move) with Flash (a TM move) for exploration of Victory Road. Once you've explored fully, and never have to go back, you can restore Psychic.

As for the Flashlight, I doubt it'll happen; the flashlight isn't as powerful.

Cyclone

[Suicune™]

I wonder what will replace Dive if they don't plan to reinstate it into Pokemon X & Y, tbh I don't even know what the purpose was for BW. Up until the announcement of X & Y I thought it was the testing grounds for RS remakes but it really had no real use other than some ruins underwater. Anyway back to my point, it could either get replaced by either a previously used HM such as Flash, Defog etc or they will introduce something new which is more likely IMO.