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Pokémon X & Pokémon Y The Kalos region awaits! Explore a new world, capture new Pokémon, and fight off Team Flare in the newest installment of the core Pokémon series.
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  #51    
Old March 19th, 2013, 03:04 PM
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Originally Posted by inferno7453 View Post
Although no one from the E4 has used Steel-type Pokémon, the champion of RS, Steven used them, and it was really hard if you didn't have Pokémon that were strong against them.
Steel would definitely make for a good Elite 4 type, and it would be pretty tough to beat. Metagross was a freaking nightmare in RS, i still have nightmares about that...
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  #52    
Old March 22nd, 2013, 03:40 PM
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I liked Unova's Elite Four in that you could choose which order you battled each one, but I would prefer if that were to happen again that the levels of each elite members didn't remain static.

Something I would like to see is a departure from specific types and a turn to a more strategic Elite Four with a mix of different Pokémon. For example:

Elite Member 1: Specializes in Attack
Elite Member 2: Specializes in Sp. Attack
Elite Member 3: Specializes in Speed
Elite Member 4: Specializes in HP, Defense, and Sp. Defense

Champion: A well balanced and competitively challenging team

It's nothing more than a pipe dream really, but I wouldn't actually mind if they broke away from each Elite member having a special type.
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  #53    
Old March 22nd, 2013, 03:55 PM
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Steel would definitely make for a good Elite 4 type, and it would be pretty tough to beat. Metagross was a freaking nightmare in RS, i still have nightmares about that...
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  #54    
Old March 22nd, 2013, 07:00 PM
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I'd like for Steel to make a pretty good type in the E4 to come back to. Facing Steven in R/S/E has shown me how devastating and powerful Steel-types are, especially when you face him post-game. @_@;

I mean he's no Cynthia or anything like that, but he can hold his own!

I'd also wouldn't mind what Shivi suggested, too~! :3 A more...stat-centered elite four (lol I couldn't think of any other way to word it) would definitely be cool, and break away from the traditional "E4 having types" kind of thing.
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  #55    
Old March 22nd, 2013, 08:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Aerilyn View Post
I liked Unova's Elite Four in that you could choose which order you battled each one, but I would prefer if that were to happen again that the levels of each elite members didn't remain static.

Something I would like to see is a departure from specific types and a turn to a more strategic Elite Four with a mix of different Pokémon. For example:

Elite Member 1: Specializes in Attack
Elite Member 2: Specializes in Sp. Attack
Elite Member 3: Specializes in Speed
Elite Member 4: Specializes in HP, Defense, and Sp. Defense

Champion: A well balanced and competitively challenging team

It's nothing more than a pipe dream really, but I wouldn't actually mind if they broke away from each Elite member having a special type.
Sounds fun! Also relates to what Fifth Gen had in a way. For example, Marshal was specialising in Attack, Shauntal in Special Attack, Grimsley in Speed and Caitlin in the others. I think from that pattern, something along those lines actually is possible for this generation if they just move to just elite people rather than elite type-loving people. :(
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  #56    
Old March 23rd, 2013, 05:07 AM
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It would certainly make the Elite 4 more of a challenge considering you wouldn't know which Pokémon they'd have on them. Whereas with specific types, you can almost guess which Pokémon they'll be using before you battle them and you can be ready for it.
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  #57    
Old March 24th, 2013, 12:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aerilyn View Post
I liked Unova's Elite Four in that you could choose which order you battled each one, but I would prefer if that were to happen again that the levels of each elite members didn't remain static.

Something I would like to see is a departure from specific types and a turn to a more strategic Elite Four with a mix of different Pokémon. For example:

Elite Member 1: Specializes in Attack
Elite Member 2: Specializes in Sp. Attack
Elite Member 3: Specializes in Speed
Elite Member 4: Specializes in HP, Defense, and Sp. Defense

Champion: A well balanced and competitively challenging team

It's nothing more than a pipe dream really, but I wouldn't actually mind if they broke away from each Elite member having a special type.
THIS^ It's just like Norman's gym, where the trainers before him all specialize in one stat, only this would be way harder. Something like this would either force people who don't EV train to EV train, or require mad tactics. Plus I can see a Steel, Ghost and Flying combo for the Attack specialization, and a Dragon, Fire and Psychic combo for the Sp. Attack specialization. And I think it'd be cool if each one of the E4 had a forme of Deoxys specific for their specialized stat.
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  #58    
Old March 24th, 2013, 01:04 PM
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Originally Posted by inferno7453 View Post
THIS^ It's just like Norman's gym, where the trainers before him all specialize in one stat, only this would be way harder. Something like this would either force people who don't EV train to EV train, or require mad tactics. Plus I can see a Steel, Ghost and Flying combo for the Attack specialization, and a Dragon, Fire and Psychic combo for the Sp. Attack specialization. And I think it'd be cool if each one of the E4 had a forme of Deoxys specific for their specialized stat.
That's a problem, may I remind you that the target audience for Pokemon are kids, which are less likely to do extensive strategics and/or to use a mechanic that costs time and isn't exactly the most fun thing to do.

Maybe if the game had a hard setting or something this could fit but I find it unlikely to go on normal game play, unless it was something toned down so the need wouldn't be this apparent and could be circumvented more easily.
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  #59    
Old March 24th, 2013, 01:23 PM
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That's a problem, may I remind you that the target audience for Pokemon are kids, which are less likely to do extensive strategics and/or to use a mechanic that costs time and isn't exactly the most fun thing to do.

Maybe if the game had a hard setting or something this could fit but I find it unlikely to go on normal game play, unless it was something toned down so the need wouldn't be this apparent and could be circumvented more easily.

I agree. Although I myself don't EV train, I'd love to have a challenge like this. Thinking about the kids though definitely you'd need the Hard and Normal modes. The normal one could be the same team, but without the same specialization, like less stat value for that specific stat (instead of 200 speed, have 120 speed).
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  #60    
Old March 24th, 2013, 03:59 PM
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You don't really need to EV train for such an E4.
Get a Physical Attacker for the spDef E4
And a Special Attacker for the Def E4
Get some uber spdef or a calm mind user pokemon to counter the spAtk E4 (works also for the Def E4)
And Curse/Bulk UP or epicly defensive poke for the Atk E4 (works also for the spDef E4)
Also, there are a lot of status moves (like stealth rock, leech seed, ..Etc) and some damage-dealingm oves (like Foul Play, Seismic Toss, ... etc) that don't require EV training.
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  #61    
Old March 24th, 2013, 05:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Kurapika View Post
You don't really need to EV train for such an E4.
Get a Physical Attacker for the spDef E4
And a Special Attacker for the Def E4
Get some uber spdef or a calm mind user pokemon to counter the spAtk E4 (works also for the Def E4)
And Curse/Bulk UP or epicly defensive poke for the Atk E4 (works also for the spDef E4)
Also, there are a lot of status moves (like stealth rock, leech seed, ..Etc) and some damage-dealingm oves (like Foul Play, Seismic Toss, ... etc) that don't require EV training.
Again, the audience. If you grabbed a kid that played Pokemon odds are, it doesn't give a crap about stats and is just mashing the a button on the strongest attack (not only kids do that though), and that's it.

It's more likely they'll know about the type advantage but they won't care for the stats part of the game, they'll maybe take a glance at it and start using moves that favor that stats, but nothing deep and/or strategic about it. Pokemon is a game for the casual gamers, while it does have the more hardcore parts (Competitive Battling, RNG and it's setup) they're optional and depending on whether you frequent websites and read guides on the game, you may not even know about these parts.

And now about the strategies you mentioned:
- Get {Stat}er Pokemon: Kids would likely get Pokemon for the rule of cute and/or the rule of cool, not practicality or stats.
- Move Strategies: Strategy more advanced than "Use a par/brn/slp/psn move and then keep attacking" is rare.

This is a business, they focus the game to be more attractive to the target audience, that's why the puzzles are usually easy and the battling scene can be done so casually - save from a few trainers like Morimoto and Cynthia were in BW -, the only way this suggestion could be done would be bumping the difficulty of the whole game - because if you spend the entire game beating trainers that have random Pokemon or a single type when it comes one that is actually specialized in a way they can have a diverse team with a more competitive movepool you'd be lost -, maybe if the game had a hard setting on ...
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  #62    
Old March 24th, 2013, 09:10 PM
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Mmmmm, I dunno, I mean, that's a pretty big sweeping generalization of how kids play. Though however accurate is probably subjective, I suppose. EV training is, of course, for the more advanced trainer, but I'm sure it's within reach for children to learn. /shrugs. Could be wrong, though.

Honestly though, this is the elite four we're talking about here. If you're a kid, especially being a kid that's a longtime Pokemon fan, then you should have enough sense to know that the Elite Four is not going to be easy by any means (at least, the basic concept of the E4 is that they're not supposed to be easy). When you apply that to adults, we know how to strategize fairly easily, especially those of us that have been in competitive battling for a long time.

That doesn't mean that kids don't know how to strategize as well, but perhaps not to the extent that the older gamers do. When you're talking about the Elite four, the concept to grasp here is that you have a bunch of trainers that usually have level 55+ Pokemon, so the obvious answer to a kid is to have a higher level Pokemon, with a semi-decent moveset. It really doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out a strategy to beat the elite four. If they could figure out type matchups, then they can figure out stats. I don't think stats are a hard concept to grasp at all, assuming that there's some sort of tutorial included in-games that explains it.
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  #63    
Old March 25th, 2013, 02:17 AM
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Mmmmm, I dunno, I mean, that's a pretty big sweeping generalization of how kids play. Though however accurate is probably subjective, I suppose. EV training is, of course, for the more advanced trainer, but I'm sure it's within reach for children to learn. /shrugs. Could be wrong, though.

Honestly though, this is the elite four we're talking about here. If you're a kid, especially being a kid that's a longtime Pokemon fan, then you should have enough sense to know that the Elite Four is not going to be easy by any means (at least, the basic concept of the E4 is that they're not supposed to be easy). When you apply that to adults, we know how to strategize fairly easily, especially those of us that have been in competitive battling for a long time.

That doesn't mean that kids don't know how to strategize as well, but perhaps not to the extent that the older gamers do. When you're talking about the Elite four, the concept to grasp here is that you have a bunch of trainers that usually have level 55+ Pokemon, so the obvious answer to a kid is to have a higher level Pokemon, with a semi-decent moveset. It really doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out a strategy to beat the elite four. If they could figure out type matchups, then they can figure out stats. I don't think stats are a hard concept to grasp at all, assuming that there's some sort of tutorial included in-games that explains it.
I suppose so, but to get across EV training, you'd need to either get across some items or to do selective grinding, both of which take time.
And IV training is just mass breeding; the manhours that take to do this aren't going to do wonders on holding the attention of kids.
But I dunno, I could be just generalizing.
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  #64    
Old March 25th, 2013, 05:10 AM
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I feel that EV and IV training, as a whole, is generally just kind of an separate topic kind of thing, but I do agree in that they're very specific methods of training and very time-consuming at times. Depending the kid though, they might either want to rush to complete the game or want the strongest Pokemon team ever. While I doubt your overall kid knows much about IV training, EV training is quickly gaining precedence, despite the former pretty much dictating the latter, so to speak. There's just lots of technicalities involved in these methods that may/may not appeal to kids depending on whether or not they actually care.

But when it comes to the E4, all one really needs to know is to have a higher leveled Pokemon and figure out the E4's weaknesses~! ...A very basic way to put it, at least. But in any case, assuming the difficulty of the game is customizable, then kids who play through the normal/easy hopefully won't find the E4 -too- difficult, if difficult at all, if they specialized in stats. ^^;
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  #65    
Old March 25th, 2013, 06:23 AM
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Gen 5's method was much better in my opinion. I liked having the choice of who I wanted to face when. The old method wasn't bad, though, I just believe it was too linear for my liking.
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  #66    
Old March 25th, 2013, 07:51 AM
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I hadn't given it that much thought, but I wouldn't mind if the Elite 4 was presented in Gen 6 the same way as in Gen 5, although to be honest I'd be equally fine with it if it went back to the 'standard' way, 4 in a row. Types aside, if you were high enough level to beat one Elite 4 member, you were high enough to beat them all (in Gen 5)- which is fine! Though I'm also fine with battling through 4 trainers, each tougher than the next. I remember the first time I took on the League in Ruby and how terrified I was when he sent out his level 55 Salamence. Somehow, I just think there's a greater sense of achievement when you beat the 4 when they're organised in a linear way- but that's just me.
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  #67    
Old March 25th, 2013, 08:55 AM
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Gen 5's method was much better in my opinion. I liked having the choice of who I wanted to face when. The old method wasn't bad, though, I just believe it was too linear for my liking.
ya I liked that too. I think it'll probably occur again, because why else make it that way in gen 5 WITH positive feedback? uh, grammar, but yeah I see it returning in this generation because why not.
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  #68    
Old March 25th, 2013, 07:06 PM
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I definitely liked generation five's method, although the static level thing was kind of iffy to me. I mean, I guess it makes sense so that all four of them are considered equal, while the champion is on his/her own level, but I don't really like that. I'd rather have the top five trainers be ranked, not have four tied for second and then a champion. Keep the choice mechanic, but give us some level curving.
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  #69    
Old March 26th, 2013, 09:01 AM
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If I may... I'm a teenager, and me and my little brother both play pokemon very seriously. My brother does know about ev's, and he actually uses them more than I do. I don't think you guys who are talking about ev's and how kids don't recognize them realize this, in my experience with my brother and his friends, kids do battle competitively and do care about stats and ev's. just saying.
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  #70    
Old March 30th, 2013, 10:13 AM
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Generation 5's was cool I guess because it was different but in all honesty the other system was far far superior, it's the Pokemon League so I want there to be suspense and a challenge and Generation 5's method voided that substantially. I'm confident that the old system will come back though. One type of middle ground that might be cool is to actually have an Elite Six with the 1st and 4th member static but the 2nd and 3rd depend on what door you enter after the 1st and 2nd Elites, a la Norman's gym, I think this would be pretty cool actually. Also Elite predictions:

1st-Water
2nd-Fire
3rd-Rock
4th-New Type xdddd
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Old April 21st, 2013, 10:07 AM
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Originally Posted by giradialkia View Post
I hadn't given it that much thought, but I wouldn't mind if the Elite 4 was presented in Gen 6 the same way as in Gen 5, although to be honest I'd be equally fine with it if it went back to the 'standard' way, 4 in a row. Types aside, if you were high enough level to beat one Elite 4 member, you were high enough to beat them all (in Gen 5)- which is fine! Though I'm also fine with battling through 4 trainers, each tougher than the next. I remember the first time I took on the League in Ruby and how terrified I was when he sent out his level 55 Salamence. Somehow, I just think there's a greater sense of achievement when you beat the 4 when they're organised in a linear way- but that's just me.
The more I think about it, the more I have to agree. While I liked the opportunity of choosing the order in which we battled the Elite 4 of Gen V, the feeling of achievement after beating each one just wasn't there. Sure, the older system was more linear, but you could feel the excitement level rising as each one got stronger and you got closer to the Champion's doors.
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  #72    
Old April 21st, 2013, 10:19 AM
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The more I think about it, the more I have to agree. While I liked the opportunity of choosing the order in which we battled the Elite 4 of Gen V, the feeling of achievement after beating each one just wasn't there. Sure, the older system was more linear, but you could feel the excitement level rising as each one got stronger and you got closer to the Champion's doors.
I agree completely. I liked the old Elite Four better because it was more exciting. The anticipation rose with every battle and it felt like there was no turning back as you moved forward.

I really did not like the way the Elite Four was set up in BW. I would prefer if they went back to the old style in the new games.
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  #73    
Old April 21st, 2013, 10:57 AM
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I definitely liked generation five's method, although the static level thing was kind of iffy to me. I mean, I guess it makes sense so that all four of them are considered equal, while the champion is on his/her own level, but I don't really like that. I'd rather have the top five trainers be ranked, not have four tied for second and then a champion. Keep the choice mechanic, but give us some level curving.
So pretty much everyone agrees with that =P Which I definitely still support, since I thought having the Elite 4 as just one level cap silly. It really took all the challenge out of fighting them.
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  #74    
Old April 21st, 2013, 04:17 PM
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I agree completely. I liked the old Elite Four better because it was more exciting. The anticipation rose with every battle and it felt like there was no turning back as you moved forward.

I really did not like the way the Elite Four was set up in BW. I would prefer if they went back to the old style in the new games.
I think I'd have to agree with you there. I liked being able to choose the order of who I battled in Gen V, but the old method always seemed a lot more intense. Like you said, it definitely had more of that 'no turning back now' feeling that made it feel like you're in the big leagues. Gen V's league lacked that and I think that's why it had more of an empty feeling to me.
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  #75    
Old April 21st, 2013, 06:25 PM
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Agreeing with the people who preferred the old style better. I was actually pretty nervous when facing the Elite four, and the theme song playing during those moments just makes you tense, y'know (well, it makes me tense lmao).

Either way, I'd like the old elements brought back in this generation's E4. n__n Would be a nice thing to have.
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