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Pokémon Gaming Central For topics that aren't necessarily restricted to one game, Pokémon Gaming Central ranges from comparing and contrasting the differences in the gaming generations to discussing the gaming franchise as a whole.


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  #1    
Old March 10th, 2013, 09:18 PM
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I think Gamefreak is really lazy. There game has stuck to the basics for so long and I'm tired of it. I would really like to see their games evolve and turn into something beautiful like Golden Sun Dark Dawn.

The navigation system is really boring in Pokemon. Up, Down, Left, Right walking is getting really boring.
In Golden Sun, you get to move all over the screen. I want to move my character at diagonals. Gamefreak needs to move away from old concepts and accept that their games are running out of ideas.

The puzzles are super easy. Gamefreak needs to take a good hard look at their fan-base and stop making the same game over and over again.

I would like to see an option where when a battle starts, you have a bunch of options like using the pokedex and scanning Pokemon. I hate it when the game does everything for me.

I have a bunch of other stuff on my mind and don't have time to write it all. Commanding Pokemon with voice?

I really want to play Pokemon but I can't stand what the game has become. Anyone else feel this way? I know that some of you are totally for what Gamefreak does but I'm reaching out to those who want to see some major changes. Type away!
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  #2    
Old March 10th, 2013, 09:21 PM
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Old March 10th, 2013, 09:25 PM
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Yeah, I do agree, the same thing over and over does get boring after a while.
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Old March 10th, 2013, 09:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lugiaz Soul View Post
I think Gamefreak is really lazy. There game has stuck to the basics for so long and I'm tired of it. I would really like to see their games evolve and turn into something beautiful like Golden Sun Dark Dawn.

The navigation system is really boring in Pokemon. Up, Down, Left, Right walking is getting really boring.
In Golden Sun, you get to move all over the screen. I want to move my character at diagonals. Gamefreak needs to move away from old concepts and accept that their games are running out of ideas.

The puzzles are super easy. Gamefreak needs to take a good hard look at their fan-base and stop making the same game over and over again.

I would like to see an option where when a battle starts, you have a bunch of options like using the pokedex and scanning Pokemon. I hate it when the game does everything for me.

I have a bunch of other stuff on my mind and don't have time to write it all. Commanding Pokemon with voice?

I really want to play Pokemon but I can't stand what the game has become. Anyone else feel this way? I know that some of you are totally for what Gamefreak does but I'm reaching out to those who want to see some major changes. Type away!
Ok...starting off, Golden Sun has had the same Mechanics for 3 generations of games. Not to mention nearly the same graphics quality even after moving from the GBA to DS. It follows the same basic plot and has all the same rudimentary systems through the 3 games. To finish, Golden Sun does not hold a CANDLE to the sales Pokemon does. Even though I am a big fan of the series, with exception to Dark Dawn as that was the biggest let down I've ever had, Golden Sun cannot compete with Pokemon.

Next, all of the BIGGEST selling games do way worse on the repetitive scale. All Sports games, Call of Duty, Mario, Legend of Zelda, Kirby, Metroid are like this. They are all the same stories retold with different elements JUST like Pokemon. Almost all of the greatest games share this little tidbit. There is nothing lazy about Gamefreak or Pokemon's development.


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Old March 10th, 2013, 10:01 PM
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Alot like Xander said many major best selling game franchises have been using the same formula for years and only change it slightly. My brother said once before : Pokemon is one of those games that can keep the same formula every game and not be boring and still sell." It just works best in the formula it has. I personally wouldn't want GameFreak to change the formual up too much cause alot of it's fine the way it is and I'm used to it. It would be confusing if things were to change completely cause Pokemon's known for that formula it started with in the first game. They all have the same basic story with some added elements. I don't see that as being lazy, just GameFreak sticking with the story and formula their known for cause it works the best.
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Old March 11th, 2013, 12:00 AM
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Xander mostly explained it all, most major gaming franchises (like Pokemon of course) use the same formula for years and they may do a little change here and there but as AWsquared said, Pokemon can keep the same formula for every game, and still makes money. Also, Pokemon games have improved a lot over each generation, such as changing the battle mechanics.

If Pokemon's basic formula were changed now, it would cause too much confusion, especially with the older fans who still play the games. Pokemon's basic formula of stuff like 8 Gyms, an Elite Four and Champion and a villainous team has been a staple for the past 17 years and they probably won't change it anytime soon.
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Old March 11th, 2013, 03:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Killjoy View Post
Don't fix what ain't broken?
He said it best.

Since this isn't exactly about X and Y, but Pokémon games overall and what you think about them, I'm just going to shift this on over to Syd's forum.
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Old March 11th, 2013, 04:59 AM
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If the navigation is really boring, why don't you play Pokemon Colosseum or XD?

And majors changes mostly leads to major problems with the game too.

And what's the point of having an option to scan the Pokemon in battle? It's way more convenient the way it is now and it'll just make the battle longer if you have to scan THEN attack.
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  #9    
Old March 11th, 2013, 06:27 AM
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I definitely agree with what Xander said. If you think that GameFreak is being lazy about Pokémon, then you're also thinking that other game developers are lazy about other games like Super Mario Bros., since those games use the same storyline like Xander said.
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Old March 11th, 2013, 09:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lugiaz Soul View Post
I think Gamefreak is really lazy. There game has stuck to the basics for so long and I'm tired of it. I would really like to see their games evolve and turn into something beautiful like Golden Sun Dark Dawn.

The navigation system is really boring in Pokemon. Up, Down, Left, Right walking is getting really boring.
In Golden Sun, you get to move all over the screen. I want to move my character at diagonals. Gamefreak needs to move away from old concepts and accept that their games are running out of ideas.

The puzzles are super easy. Gamefreak needs to take a good hard look at their fan-base and stop making the same game over and over again.

I would like to see an option where when a battle starts, you have a bunch of options like using the pokedex and scanning Pokemon. I hate it when the game does everything for me.

I have a bunch of other stuff on my mind and don't have time to write it all. Commanding Pokemon with voice?

I really want to play Pokemon but I can't stand what the game has become. Anyone else feel this way? I know that some of you are totally for what Gamefreak does but I'm reaching out to those who want to see some major changes. Type away!
Dude, they make changes in side games like Colloseum and Mystery Dungeon. The main games are always gonna stick to the formula. As for easy puzzles, it's a kid's game man.
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  #11    
Old March 12th, 2013, 12:52 AM
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The thing with any franchise is that some people will tire of the same thing, while others will hate it when they change it up.

With Pokemon you can have the best of both worlds as others have mentioned already. Main series is in the foreseeable future going to remain the same, because that's what sells an awful lot. (Millions of sales last gen after all). Meanwhile the spinoffs offer a different take on the series, like the upcoming MD game, or Conquest/Pokepark for recent games that are actually currently out. Note that Game Freak only make the main games, but well, why fix what isn't broken? All game companies are a business, and so they want to make money. They don't want to risk an already good run (good run being one of the best selling franchises and running for many years across multiple consoles), and they don't have to either.
Quote:
I have a bunch of other stuff on my mind and don't have time to write it all. Commanding Pokemon with voice?
A gimmick at best, and maybe not the best idea. After all, as someone put it elsewhere a long time ago, not many people want to play Pokemon on a bus trip and need to shout 'Go, Lickylicky!' just to play. Nor does it really add much in terms to gameplay.
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  #12    
Old March 12th, 2013, 03:06 AM
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Welll I don't think the core mechanics sjould be changed, but I do believe that the games could have been a lot better. Ever since the games were released for the nds, I think game freak has been rather lazy when it came down to graphics and mapping... the unova region feels unnatural to me, and even though the sprites are animated, some were just animated versions of the previous gen's sprites.
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Old March 13th, 2013, 01:37 AM
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If they added something revolutionary... wouldn't that give them less possibilities to do something new in future?
Pokemon is the most selling product of Game Freak, they obviously want to upgrade it slowly so they can have room for further development
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  #14    
Old March 14th, 2013, 01:01 PM
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Quote:
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Don't fix what ain't broken?
What he said. I have been playing Pokemon since the release of red and blue. Now at 23 years old I still play, I have yet to get bored.
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Old March 22nd, 2013, 01:48 PM
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The gameplay is pretty dated at this point yeah (random encounters), but simple mechanics does wonders for a series that caters to a younger audience to begin with. The problem with Pokemon, especially with gen 5, is the region design and technical capabilities. I do agree that Pokemon is repetitive (for an RPG, especially), but it's a million seller and there's absolutely no reason to move away from the formula. EXPAND on it, definitely, like what Zelda or Halo does, but that's never gonna happen.

That said, OP, I recommend you try out Drill Dozer on the GBA and the HarmoKnight demo that was recently up on the 3DS eShop. Game Freak is at its best when not milking Pokemon.
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Originally Posted by XanderO View Post
Next, all of the BIGGEST selling games do way worse on the repetitive scale. All Sports games, Call of Duty, Mario, Legend of Zelda, Kirby, Metroid are like this. They are all the same stories retold with different elements JUST like Pokemon. Almost all of the greatest games share this little tidbit. There is nothing lazy about Gamefreak or Pokemon's development.
No, Pokemon is the worst of this. Game design is more than story. Don't talk crap you don't know about. Zelda and Mario are more repetitive than Pokemon? (The only Mario games that are repetitive are the NSMB games, which are backed by some of the best level designs in the series.) Metroid is repetitive at all (And it doesn't share the same story, for god's sake)? How about you play them before saying anything. It doesn't help that Pokemon is a turn based RPG, whereas competitive games like sports and CoD only need minor update and adventure/platformers game only need new and innovative level design to help keep them feel fresh. Pokemon might introduce new gameplay mechanics but that means absolutely nothing to the normal consumer, unless you're a die hard fanboy but you're not the real target audience. To the normal consumer, a new pokemon game just means new Pokemon and new locations, but that's it. There's nothing much there gameplay-wise. It's the reason why most consumers only stick with a generation or two before getting bored, and that's why you see a lot of people who only liked gen 1 and 2. (And the people who played gen 3 at their age are growing up to talk bias of it, now.) Anything further than that and you get a fan, or most likely a fanboy. Mario, for example, on the other hand is universally loved, both by adults and kids alike, and everyone sticks with it because the formula is just too fun too feel repetitive, with level design that keeps on giving and new mechanics that does wonders for platformers.

Jesus christ, Metroid? Good god.

Last edited by Spinosaurus; March 22nd, 2013 at 01:55 PM.
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Old March 22nd, 2013, 04:35 PM
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Yes Metroid...because it has the same built in mechanics through 5 generations of games. Then when they switch to a more 3D look, all of those games share the same basic mechanics. The gameplay does not improve through out. The ONLY thing that changes are characters, and that includes enemies and monsters, weapon/items, and story/location...What other game does that? Oh let me think...Oh ya POKEMON. Nintendo, Super Nintendo, Gameboy, and Gameboy Advance Metroids use the same boring side scrolling travel in every game.

It has the same goals despite different stories, just like every major videogame listed before. The 3D ones all use the Samus helmet vision and a fighting style very similar to playing a Duke Nukem or some other severely outdated FPS game.

Also I have played them. I currently have the two for the 3DS' Virtual Shop downloaded and own Other M. I've played it with various friends who are advocate players of the series.

There has to be a reason why Pokemon is also a better selling title than Metroid. Metroid has been around much longer than Pokemon and it still sells way better. So really its a stupid comparison since Metroid can't compete with Pokemon. Since its sells are worse its obviously a worse game franchise.

As for Mario, repetitive is repetitive. If it can be overcome for one game it can be over come for all games like it. Its Save the Princess, travel through 8 worlds because she's never in the castle you go to. Spin offs like party, which are also incredibly repetitive and yes quite boring at this point as they have severely dumbed down the party's integreal system. I liked the difficulty of earning my stars and buying upgrades that the first three had, but after that everything is pretty much just handed to you. Paper Marion is getting to the point where its repeating basic story line stagnancy even went as far as to try and copy basic Mario gameplay and add in an RPG element into it which while Sticker Star is possibly one of my favorite Paper Mario games, its fairly boring when played for long periods.

Competitive games are not excluded from the boring factor either. They are big the first few months after release, if a new game does not come out, then it just slowly dies until the hardcore players stay, if they don't constantly alternate through their games like my cousin does. Even my brother who used to love those kind of games has given up on it because he realized its the same game over and over and over again.

So, please kindly STHU. You do not know anything about me, or about any of the franchises you are trying to use to spread more of your useless and petty Pokemon hatred. I happen to like all of them outside of the sports and CoD series games and play them fairly regularly. I also don't go around spouting out hate rants on a site dedicated to a specific franchise about that specific franchise. If you hate it so much just stop playing the games. Stop dealing in areas about those games and move on so maybe you'll finally find something that won't make you just sit around with nothing to do but waste your time and just whine about everything.
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Old March 22nd, 2013, 06:09 PM
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Personally, i'm a bit between this. When I plasyed Pokemon Ruby, I was astounded at the possibilities of the new capabilities of the stuff. I could play for hours with the Acro Bike, DIVE underwater (Which tok away from the 2D feel of the Ocean for once. The time components were still a little clunky from Gold/silver, such as Berry growth and the tides, but the weather attribute was a nice addition to the playing and strategy to games. Kekleon was awesome trying to find as many as i could. The entire game was nothing but improvements aside from the clock.

And I LOVED the journal entry addition to FR/LG. Plus the Sevii Islands made it feel like I was cheating a little and getting to go to the Orange Islands.

Then Came Diamond/Pearl, which astounded me with its new 2.5 dimension feel. The clock was finally fixed, using the clock of the DS, which kept in check even when the thing was off, which was a problem back in the gameboy/GBA days. But other than a boost in creative art style, nothing major, They even removed Dive, so the boost directional movement was gone. They didn't even have whirlpools, which were cute in Gold/Silver.

Though they did bring back both Whirlpools and Dive in HG/SS. plus they added the Following Pokemon thing from yellow, which was nice. And they gave us the carrying pot for the nuts. I was on the fence on those, as the new clock would make it easy to check with the new nuts, but instead they let us keep the nuts on us as well.

Then came Black and White, which is so young that I feel guilty talking about it. I didn't see anything new about it other than the 2.75D. We still don't have 3D yet and we won't really until we get 1st person of just over the character 3rd person perspective in these games. I don't remember anything new.
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Old March 22nd, 2013, 08:26 PM
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I'm playing baseball with this thread and right now, it's on strike two. Everyone cool your jets, or you may be infracted if you get too rowdy. And the thread will be locked on strike three. And we don't want that. So if you can't say anything nice, don't say nothin' at all.

Carry on.
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Old March 22nd, 2013, 08:43 PM
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I do agree that pokemon is quite repetative, but I don't think i'll ever stop playing regardless. One reason GF keeps with the same basic concepts and all that, is probably because they are making the games for kids to play.. It's pretty much been like that since the start, I don't see it changing at all.
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  #20    
Old March 22nd, 2013, 08:54 PM
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It's been mentioned so many times and is constantly quoted for truth; if it ain't broken, don't fix it. What they can do, however, is make minor tweaks to the formula to add a new twist to the game experience such as overhauling a type chart to nerf a certain dominant type like Psychic was back in Gen 1 or reworking the EV/IV mechanics to make it easier for competitive players to form their teams outside of Pokemon Online or Pokemon Showdown.
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  #21    
Old March 22nd, 2013, 09:20 PM
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I would like to concur with the OP, but the games have been seeing changes since BW and that trend seems like something to continue, so I don't think now is a good time to pass such judgements. Ultimately, regardless, something like Pokemon tends to be largely spent with regards to innovation unless they rather drastically change the entire thing, and that's not going to happen for as long as it remains a successful commercial franchise. The majority of people soak up repetition, and eagerly; something this thread seems to evidence at only a glance through; I would agree that this is unfortunate. My only recommendation is to play new Pokemon games less frequently, let's say only buying one version each generation, then the differences they do have are easier to appreciate.
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  #22    
Old March 23rd, 2013, 04:05 AM
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Originally Posted by XanderO View Post
Yes Metroid...because it has the same built in mechanics through 5 generations of games. Then when they switch to a more 3D look, all of those games share the same basic mechanics. The gameplay does not improve through out. The ONLY thing that changes are characters, and that includes enemies and monsters, weapon/items, and story/location...What other game does that? Oh let me think...Oh ya POKEMON. Nintendo, Super Nintendo, Gameboy, and Gameboy Advance Metroids use the same boring side scrolling travel in every game.

It has the same goals despite different stories, just like every major videogame listed before. The 3D ones all use the Samus helmet vision and a fighting style very similar to playing a Duke Nukem or some other severely outdated FPS game.

Also I have played them. I currently have the two for the 3DS' Virtual Shop downloaded and own Other M. I've played it with various friends who are advocate players of the series.
So you're argument for the 2D Metroids is that they're still side scrollers, ignoring the things that that Metroidvanias need like new level designs, level structure, enemies and boss pattern and desgins, new physics and new abilities? Metroid Fusion plays NOTHING like Super Metroid, or the original. Metroid Fusion was more linear, precise and fast paced than it's exploration and puzzle based predecessor, and that alone is a huge difference, forget the different abilities throughout. I don't know about about Metroid Prime since I only played a bit of 3, but I heard from several people that they're completely different so I'll take it from them. Might as well call the other Metroidvanias repetitive as well. Pokemon, on the other hand, is an RPG, and interestingly enough, the only big name RPG that is repetitive and gets that complaints.

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There has to be a reason why Pokemon is also a better selling title than Metroid. Metroid has been around much longer than Pokemon and it still sells way better. So really its a stupid comparison since Metroid can't compete with Pokemon. Since its sells are worse its obviously a worse game franchise.
That has got to be the most ridiculous reasoning to determine a series quality. Sales? Get out. Metroid was never popular in Japan because of the serious sci-fi theme, aliens and shooting aspects, hence it was a mostly franchise geared for the west. As for the games quality, Metroid is more critically successful (going by metacritics), and in that regards, it's normal to consider it the better game series. (No Pokemon game went above 90% in metacritics, if you're curious, whereas all main Metroid games have) It's the same case with every single franchise you mentioned.

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As for Mario, repetitive is repetitive. If it can be overcome for one game it can be over come for all games like it. Its Save the Princess, travel through 8 worlds because she's never in the castle you go to. Spin offs like party, which are also incredibly repetitive and yes quite boring at this point as they have severely dumbed down the party's integreal system. I liked the difficulty of earning my stars and buying upgrades that the first three had, but after that everything is pretty much just handed to you. Paper Marion is getting to the point where its repeating basic story line stagnancy even went as far as to try and copy basic Mario gameplay and add in an RPG element into it which while Sticker Star is possibly one of my favorite Paper Mario games, its fairly boring when played for long periods.
My arguments with Mario are still the same with Metroid. Innovative level designs (the only thing you need for platformers), structure (for 3D Marios), enemy and boss pattern, new physics and abilities, etc are all you need.
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So, please kindly STHU. You do not know anything about me, or about any of the franchises you are trying to use to spread more of your useless and petty Pokemon hatred. I happen to like all of them outside of the sports and CoD series games and play them fairly regularly. I also don't go around spouting out hate rants on a site dedicated to a specific franchise about that specific franchise. If you hate it so much just stop playing the games. Stop dealing in areas about those games and move on so maybe you'll finally find something that won't make you just sit around with nothing to do but waste your time and just whine about everything.
I have NEVER ranted about Pokemon. (I ranted about B/W's weird design decision back in summer and X/Y's graphics, but that's it) You seem to hold a grudge on me because I criticize your favorite franchise, which is quite childish for a staff. If you don't like my criticism, tell me, or better and prove me wrong. It's fairly simple. This is a message board, I am free to express my opinion however I like it provided it is within the forum's rules. You are personally attacking me with your last sentence particularly, which for your information I do have a life. (I box, I go the gym nearly weekly, work out near daily, hang out with friends whenever I can.) I barely even come here unless I'm bored. In the end, how the hell did you come to that conclusion? We're arguing about Pokemon's repetitiveness and how it fares compared to other big names. You are arguing that games that are MUCH more interactive and responsive are more repetitive than Pokemon, which has battles that is just choose and click.

Just curious, but was it you who posted this post comment? If it was, then I can't believe you didn't talk to me about it in my face instead of hiding yourself like this. I don't like scared people like you, and given the message's context I'm going to take it with the staff. (Had I known it was a mod I'd have done that sooner.)
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If you hate Pokemon so much why are you on a pokemon site? If you have nothing worth saying then just don't bother posting.
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I'm playing baseball with this thread and right now, it's on strike two. Everyone cool your jets, or you may be infracted if you get too rowdy. And the thread will be locked on strike three. And we don't want that. So if you can't say anything nice, don't say nothin' at all.

Carry on.
Relax, there's nothing heated, it's only a discussion relevant to the thread. The only thing that is, though, was XanderO's last paragraph in his previous post, which I have every single right to respond to.

Last edited by Spinosaurus; March 23rd, 2013 at 04:11 AM.
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Old March 23rd, 2013, 06:23 AM
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Relax, there's nothing heated, it's only a discussion relevant to the thread. The only thing that is, though, was XanderO's last paragraph in his previous post, which I have every single right to respond to.
It's not your discretion as to what you think is heated enough to warrant a locked thread though. It's mine. As of right now, it's borderline, especially when you're both calling out personal things and grudges and such. It's not totally overboard yet, so it's not getting locked, and you have the right to respond. That's fine. But I also have the right to lock it if it goes the wrong way. So there's no point replying to me here. I know what I'm doing, nor am I mad at either of you.

Like I said last time, just carry on.

Edit: Because I'm not posting again.

Quote:
It is pretty hard to be calm when the thread title borders on the flaming side of things. Just saying...
Then clearly you don't know me. I am calm, but posts like this where you think you know me will rattle me. So just stop and let me do my job.
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Last edited by Jak; March 23rd, 2013 at 06:45 AM.
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  #24    
Old March 23rd, 2013, 06:32 AM
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Blade_of_darkness
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sydian View Post
I'm playing baseball with this thread and right now, it's on strike two. Everyone cool your jets, or you may be infracted if you get too rowdy. And the thread will be locked on strike three. And we don't want that. So if you can't say anything nice, don't say nothin' at all.

Carry on.
It is pretty hard to be calm when the thread title borders on the flaming side of things. Just saying...

Now, if Gamefreak were lazy & boring, chances are they would be unable to come up with new Pokémon ideas, as well as ideas for new regions. They've done this for five generations, & they're working on a sixth region. So, if there's any reason for all this friction, this is it.
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Last edited by Blade_of_darkness; March 23rd, 2013 at 06:38 AM.
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  #25    
Old March 23rd, 2013, 07:01 AM
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Ignoring all other posts here, I'm responding to the first one only.

I feel like Gamefreak's ideas have just begun. Now first off, ignoring game mechanics a bit, their plots are starting to get more creative. But, I'm only making that a brief point. Now as for game mechanics, there are infact some puzzles that are still difficult... kinda. With X and Y I'm sure there will be many harder puzzles to come to light. I'm most certainly ok with the current walking system, what's wrong with it? Sure you can't move diagonally, but you can't in many other loved games and series today. Now, the fact that you have a bike and running shoes to help the walking go faster should make up for this.

Now, no matter how boring the current mechanics are, there are new ones every generation. Oh, and looking at animations, they slowly evolved with the generations too. None > At the first part of battle > Throughout the battle > Full 3D. I think this is nice...

Anyway, obviously somethings here didn't correspond to the first post, but I rest my case, they'll do good.
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