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  #1    
Old March 13th, 2013, 08:07 AM
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The experience points have been sort of re-vamped prior to Generation V. The higher the defeated opponent's level is compared to the user, the more experience points the user will gain.

So, would you like the experience points system to remain the same in Generation 6? Could they possibly add an alternative system other than the EXP system? Could pokemon grow to be strong in another way? Or, could they simply revert to the previous mechanics?
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  #2    
Old March 13th, 2013, 08:13 AM
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Gen 5 experience gaining was perfect, no need to shake things up too much. Only thing I would like is some kind of denominator for the EXP share, level 1 Pokemon with it gaining EXP from level 60 Pokemon going up against level 60 Pokemon had them gain like 40 levels in one go.
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Old March 13th, 2013, 08:33 AM
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Something I was just thinking about, which is related to the experience system. Do you think that the experience system could be altered due to possible DNA themes in this generation to allow for Pokemon over level 100...?
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Old March 13th, 2013, 08:50 AM
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Something I was just thinking about, which is related to the experience system. Do you think that the experience system could be altered due to possible DNA themes in this generation to allow for Pokemon over level 100...?
NO. Just NO. The 100 level cap is good were its at, perhaps even a bit useless. I would actually prefer it if they lowered it to 90 or 85. Nothing good comes out of level 100, except for boosted stats for stuff like the Battle Subway or other more focused aspects of the game.
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Old March 13th, 2013, 08:52 AM
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I actually liked Generation Five's experience system, as much as I thought I was going to hate it. It definitely made grinding lower level stuff a bit easier, and I'm all for that, so I don't think we need any adjustments to the system. As far as Nica's question goes, nope nope nope. The level cap is perfectly fine, let's not screw with it =P
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Old March 13th, 2013, 09:03 AM
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Agreeing with those (like Jake) who say that Gen V's experience system was definitely the way to go. Audino hunting wasn't particularly difficult by any means (only time-consuming at worst), and as soon as you sent out a Pokemon with Lucky Egg to defeat it, oh man it's like you hit the jackpot of experience points. Some people gain an instant level, while others gain multiple, of course.

I'd like something like this to return, and maybe Gen VI would have something similar of it's own to offer.

As far as the level cap is concerned, I'd like for it to actually be reduced to a reasonable one, like 70. I dunno, I do think that 100 seems a bit too steep for me, as there's no actual reason in the games that I should be grinding to that level, save if there's some sort of special side-quest where I have to battle a Red-esque trainer that uses level 80+ Pokemon, really.
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Old March 13th, 2013, 09:06 AM
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They can't really reduce the level cap though. That kind of break transferring Pokémon over from the fifth generation games. Say you have a level 90 something Pokémon, and try to transfer it over. Wait, the level cap is now 80. They aren't compatible! I guess they technically could auto-level stuff down, but that's just throwing away people's work to get their Pokémon to that high of a level. 100 is high, but it was just a goal to strive for, not a requirement. I don't really see anything wrong with it.
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Old March 13th, 2013, 09:21 AM
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They can't really reduce the level cap though. That kind of break transferring Pokémon over from the fifth generation games. Say you have a level 90 something Pokémon, and try to transfer it over. Wait, the level cap is now 80. They aren't compatible! I guess they technically could auto-level stuff down, but that's just throwing away people's work to get their Pokémon to that high of a level. 100 is high, but it was just a goal to strive for, not a requirement. I don't really see anything wrong with it.
What's the difference between level 100, and level 90? What's the difference between level 90 and level 80? What's the difference between level 80 and level 70? If you can answer what separates 30 levels, then you have very well made your point. Reducing the level cap is very possible, the same way they reduce it whenever you have overleveled Pokemon participate in level 50 tournaments. If you trade a Pokemon that's level 100, it'll just be level 70. And heck, if you think that's too much of a stretch, I'll go so far as to bump it up to 80 then, because let's be frank, there is really no difference been 80 and 100, which you haven't stated in your post so far.

Was that hard work all for naught? I'd argue not, since most (I daresay a good majority) of people complete their EV training well before level 50, let alone anything past that. When you actually think about it, back in the day, level 100 seemed like something to strive for. Obviously I can't speak for anybody, but I don't see that going very well for myself. Personally, I have grinded more in my Black 2 than I have in any other Pokemon game since Emerald Version. The highest leved Pokemon I have, I think is level 75-78, and that was because of the ridiculous amount of grinding I had to do because I was a) bored, b) mostly for side-quest purposes, like for challenging Benga and other extremely high-leveled trainers.

But after you beat those high-leveld trainers? Where's the satisfaction? After you pat yourself on the back for going to level 100, the only thing left is..."well, what now?"

You also have to take into consideration a lot of Pokemon's experience gains, as you're very well aware that not all Pokemon gain experience at the same rate. How long would it take a Pokemon like Hydreigon to reach level 100, as opposed to Altaria? Unlike Hydreigon, Atlaria doesn't require as many experience points to reach level 100, while Hydreigon needs a ridiculous amount, and I know from personal experience because I know how frustrating it was just to evolve my Zweilous all the way to a Hydreigon at what, level 64?

You have a good point that level 100 is definitely something to shoot for, but I believe that, for those like myself, it has lost value. If there was certain incentives to shoot for as far as leveling up your Pokemon to level 100, then by all means, I couldn't care less. But it just seems like a gigantic waste of time when you're done beating pretty much the strongest trainers in the game.

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Old March 13th, 2013, 09:22 AM
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I like the current EXP system, but I'd like a better way to grind, even if it's just as simple as being able to find higher-level wild Pokemon. Although all I really want is a way to rebate trainers.
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Old March 13th, 2013, 09:32 AM
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What's the difference between level 100, and level 90? What's the difference between level 90 and level 80? What's the difference between level 80 and level 70? If you can answer what separates 30 levels, then you have very well made your point. Reducing the level cap is very possible, the same way they reduce it whenever you have overleveled Pokemon participate in level 50 tournaments. If you trade a Pokemon that's level 100, it'll just be level 70. And heck, if you think that's too much of a stretch, I'll go so far as to bump it up to 80 then, because let's be frank, there is really no difference been 80 and 100, which you haven't stated in your post so far.

Was that hard work all for naught? I'd argue not, since most (I daresay a good majority) of people complete their EV training well before level 50, let alone anything past that. When you actually think about it, back in the day, level 100 seemed like something to strive for. Obviously I can't speak for anybody, but I don't see that going very well for myself. Personally, I have grinded more in my Black 2 than I have in any other Pokemon game since Emerald Version. The highest leved Pokemon I have, I think is level 75-78, and that was because of the ridiculous amount of grinding I had to do because I was a) bored, b) mostly for side-quest purposes, like for challenging Benga and other extremely high-leveled trainers.

But after you beat those high-leveld trainers? Where's the satisfaction? After you pat yourself on the back for going to level 100, the only thing left is..."well, what now?"

You also have to take into consideration a lot of Pokemon's experience gains, as you're very well aware that not all Pokemon gain experience at the same rate. How long would it take a Pokemon like Hydreigon to reach level 100, as opposed to Altaria? Unlike Hydreigon, Atlaria doesn't require as many experience points to reach level 100, while Hydreigon needs a ridiculous amount, and I know from personal experience because I know how frustrating it was just to evolve my Zweilous all the way to a Hydreigon at what, level 64?

You have a good point that level 100 is definitely something to shoot for, but I believe that, for those like myself, it has lost value. If there was certain incentives to shoot for as far as leveling up your Pokemon to level 100, then by all means, I could care less. But it just seems like a gigantic waste of time when you're done beating pretty much the strongest trainers in the game.
The difference in those thirty level is effort. Maybe it doesn't hold value to you, but getting something to level 100 still holds a lot of value for multiple people. Heck, there's people who pride themselves in raising their Pokémon to level 100. It's one of the ultimate goals for people to strive for in a Pokémon game: getting their Pokémon to the level cap. Lowering that cap just cheapens the accomplishment of it, both for people who have Pokémon who already are at the cap, as well as new players coming in to play this generation.

Heck, a large amount of the time I've had Pokémon hit level 70 just playing through the regular story and some of the post-game. At that point I'm not even finished with the game, and with what you're suggesting I'm already at the level cap? No thank you. I'd rather have a harder goal to accomplish than have it given to me easier just for the sake of saying "Yay I'm at the level cap!"

As far as EV training goes, that really isn't relevant to this argument. People aren't required to EV train or even battle competitively/over WiFi, so what's the point of bringing that up? Sure, the games can auto-level them to the proper levels for those events, but big whoop.

And the difference between level 70/80 and 100? That number means something. It's how much work you put into it.

Although I truly liked this experience system, the one thing it did make harder was leveling up your Pokémon when you got to higher levels and were trying to hit level 100. So yes, grinding things with higher base experience (like Hydreigon) are going to have a harder time leveling up, but they always have. Honestly if you are choosing to raise something like that, it comes with that risk.
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Old March 13th, 2013, 09:44 AM
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Thing is, the level cap while existing is by no means an actual goal, and like most RPG's, its just there to act as a stopper. I always hated that about most level systems, and it would be nice if GF decides to take this archaic system and say, "hey you know what? Level 80 is more then enough to allow some difficulty, so that's the new standard. And thinking about it, the bonding system could actually alleviate the lower level cap, as stat bonuses could be obtained with how close you are to your Pokemon.
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Old March 13th, 2013, 09:46 AM
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The difference in those thirty level is effort. Maybe it doesn't hold value to you, but getting something to level 100 still holds a lot of value for multiple people. Heck, there's people who pride themselves in raising their Pokémon to level 100. It's one of the ultimate goals for people to strive for in a Pokémon game: getting their Pokémon to the level cap. Lowering that cap just cheapens the accomplishment of it, both for people who have Pokémon who already are at the cap, as well as new players coming in to play this generation.

Heck, a large amount of the time I've had Pokémon hit level 70 just playing through the regular story and some of the post-game. At that point I'm not even finished with the game, and with what you're suggesting I'm already at the level cap? No thank you. I'd rather have a harder goal to accomplish than have it given to me easier just for the sake of saying "Yay I'm at the level cap!"

As far as EV training goes, that really isn't relevant to this argument. People aren't required to EV train or even battle competitively/over WiFi, so what's the point of bringing that up? Sure, the games can auto-level them to the proper levels for those events, but big whoop.

And the difference between level 70/80 and 100? That number means something. It's how much work you put into it.

Although I truly liked this experience system, the one thing it did make harder was leveling up your Pokémon when you got to higher levels and were trying to hit level 100. So yes, grinding things with higher base experience (like Hydreigon) are going to have a harder time leveling up, but they always have. Honestly if you are choosing to raise something like that, it comes with that risk.
@ Bolded, that's pretty much my point! Where you get to level 100, all you're pretty much going to say is "Wow, I reached the level cap, good job, me!" I understand that throughout your post, your emphasize on effort as the true reason why the level up should stay. But, what I'm trying to get at is, where's the value in that effort? Like I said, I wouldn't mind if it was bumped up to 80, because 80 is close enough to 100 that it shouldn't make any actual difference once way or another, if 70 is too low of a number. It is by that time that by the time you reach level 80, you should be more than strong enough to at least beat the strongest trainers in the game that are at the same level as you, if not a few levels lower. If you want to emphasize about effort, talk about effort as far as beating powerful trainers, because that's the primary reason one levels up their Pokemon, right? I really hope one doesn't level up their Pokemon for the sake of getting it to 100 and being like "uhhhh yay", because that's all I'm really seeing here.

I'm sorry, but you just aren't really explaining the value or the ultimate purpose behind reaching level 100. Offer some sort of incentive, maybe battle someone like the strongest trainer who ever existed, who's Pokemon is all level 100 and then I'll have no problem with the level cap as it is. But as it stands, it's just clearly redundant for me.

And fair enough, I speaking more or less on a personal level as far as EV training goes, because as you said, that is by no means an obligation, but most people do. The point I was trying to get at is that there is no reason to keep level 100, because there is nothing important or symbolic about level 100 whatsoever. Of course, you might argue back by "What's the important meaning behind level 80?" The same thing: nothing, the only difference between the two is that one is slightly easier to get to and doesn't require as much time. By the time you're level 80 anyway, you're pretty much the strongest trainer in the game seeing as even the Elite Four would most likely lag a few levels behind you at worst.

The effort going into leveling up your Pokemon only truly shines when you beat the powerful trainers that are close to your level, at least, that's how I feel. That's when you can be ultimately proud of yourself because you can utilize strategy to overcome your opponent and not rely simply on your level to overwhelm them. That is what I really recognize as effort, not getting to a random high-level number "just because".
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Old March 13th, 2013, 09:59 AM
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Look at it this way:

There are different pokemon experience groups, where it indicates that some pokemon are harder to raise than others. Experience levels can go between: Erratic, Fast, Medium Fast, Medium Slow, Slow, and Fluctuating. Erratics are the fastest experience group, and Fluctuating are the slowest.

So, say that I've raised a pokemon that's in the Erratic experience group: Milotic, and one from the Fluctuating experience group: Breloom. Now, let's say that I want to raise them to level 100; is it more of a challenge to raise Milotic to level 100, or Breloom to level 100? Breloom right? So, while Milotic is one of my favourite pokemon to raise to level 100, it was more challenging to raise Breloom to level 100, so, I dunno about others, but I definitely felt more accomplished raising that Breloom to level 100, than Milotic. So, really, I think there is at least some accomplishment to level 100. I wouldn't want pokemon's battle experience to be changed in that regard.

But, I do agree that it now-a-days, I do agree that raising a pokemon to level 100 does not hold much meaning as it did before we found out about Effort Value training, or the mechanics of pokemon nowadays, automatically puts pokemon to level 50 when it comes to say, the battle tower. But honestly? I miss that value that raising a pokemon to level 100 used to hold for us. So, how can the experience system help that?

That's why I was thinking: what if the experience system was completely changed to something else? What if the experience system has to take in account our bonds with out pokemon, along side our pokemon's battle experience? Of course, that's speculating about that possible bonding system. Even if we got the most strongest pokemon in the world, does it matter if we don't know how to use that pokemon's power in battle, or if the pokemon disobeys us for whatever reason?
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Old March 13th, 2013, 12:30 PM
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That's why I was thinking: what if the experience system was completely changed to something else? What if the experience system has to take in account our bonds with out pokemon, along side our pokemon's battle experience? Of course, that's speculating about that possible bonding system. Even if we got the most strongest pokemon in the world, does it matter if we don't know how to use that pokemon's power in battle, or if the pokemon disobeys us for whatever reason?
I'm not quite exactly sure what you're saying here. D: Is it along the lines of like, happiness and friendship, and typing that into gaining experience?
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Old March 13th, 2013, 12:36 PM
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I'm not quite exactly sure what you're saying here. D: Is it along the lines of like, happiness and friendship, and typing that into gaining experience?
Well, yeah, basically. There are all sorts of experiences a pokemon can have; maybe even compatibility with it's trainer?
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Old March 13th, 2013, 12:45 PM
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Well, yeah, basically. There are all sorts of experiences a pokemon can have; maybe even compatibility with it's trainer?
The problem I see with this is, what happens if the Pokemon dislikes its trainer? Is there some sort of slowdown with experience gain the less your Pokemon likes you? D:
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Old March 13th, 2013, 12:49 PM
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The problem I see with this is, what happens if the Pokemon dislikes its trainer? Is there some sort of slowdown with experience gain the less your Pokemon likes you? D:
Eh, it can say that type of experience is still pretty low, and yeah, I guess maybe it would have a slower rate of growth?
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Old March 13th, 2013, 12:51 PM
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That's basically what I'm expecting from the bonding system, a way to allow experience gains to be more meaningful then crunching numbers. Pokemon always seemed like one of those series were there could be some serious depth if the developers allowed for it, and the bonding system can potentially be that.
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Old March 13th, 2013, 01:08 PM
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Eh, it can say that type of experience is still pretty low, and yeah, I guess maybe it would have a slower rate of growth?
That would make sense, now that I think about it! Pokemon is kind of supposed to be around the bonds that you and your own Pokemon share, right? I mean, you see multiple NPCs throughout various games comment about how the Pokemon and the player share a close bond, and I think it's about time that the closeness would actually be utilized for something. xD
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Old March 13th, 2013, 01:36 PM
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Eh, it can say that type of experience is still pretty low, and yeah, I guess maybe it would have a slower rate of growth?
Unless a Pokemon can specifically dislike a trainer, I'd assume it would be the "normal" amount of EXP. That way you don't have an overly difficult time training new ones. Then, I'd have to wonder how it would affect the EXP Share.
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Old March 13th, 2013, 03:35 PM
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Gen 5's system wasn't bad but I do wish it was a little bit easier on the slightly overleveled Pokemon (in terms of wild Pokemon in the area)... In B2W2 it's nearly impossible to get to level 15 before fighting Cheren, and for like... solo runs with no items, it's like, impossible to win unless you're at 15... lol at least from my experience. (I happen to have 6 copies of either Black2 or White2 so I think I know what I'm talking about... XD)

It was a little annoying that you end up training against level 4-7 Pokemon (in the Ranch) whereas the gym leader has level 11-13 Pokemon... I guess that's not so much the experience problem but rather event placement and wild Pokemon levels I guess. Well with this experience system all I can say is that these kind of things should be kept in mind when planning the game.
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Old March 13th, 2013, 03:48 PM
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Gen 5's system wasn't bad but I do wish it was a little bit easier on the slightly overleveled Pokemon (in terms of wild Pokemon in the area)... In B2W2 it's nearly impossible to get to level 15 before fighting Cheren, and for like... solo runs with no items, it's like, impossible to win unless you're at 15... lol at least from my experience. (I happen to have 6 copies of either Black2 or White2 so I think I know what I'm talking about... XD)

It was a little annoying that you end up training against level 4-7 Pokemon (in the Ranch) whereas the gym leader has level 11-13 Pokemon... I guess that's not so much the experience problem but rather event placement and wild Pokemon levels I guess. Well with this experience system all I can say is that these kind of things should be kept in mind when planning the game.
Or when you play on hard mode and the trainers are at Lv.36 and the wild Pokemon are Lv.16
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Old March 14th, 2013, 03:57 AM
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Agreeing with those (like Jake) who say that Gen V's experience system was definitely the way to go. Audino hunting wasn't particularly difficult by any means (only time-consuming at worst), and as soon as you sent out a Pokemon with Lucky Egg to defeat it, oh man it's like you hit the jackpot of experience points. Some people gain an instant level, while others gain multiple, of course.

I'd like something like this to return, and maybe Gen VI would have something similar of it's own to offer.

As far as the level cap is concerned, I'd like for it to actually be reduced to a reasonable one, like 70. I dunno, I do think that 100 seems a bit too steep for me, as there's no actual reason in the games that I should be grinding to that level, save if there's some sort of special side-quest where I have to battle a Red-esque trainer that uses level 80+ Pokemon, really.
100 isn't really big honestly. :(

But guys, getting to level 100 has been great from the start, but wouldn't you like beyond level 100 to be unlocked post-game through getting/catching a certain amount of Pokemon? I think it'd be an awesome prize, to bypass the ultimate cap!
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Old March 14th, 2013, 04:41 AM
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100 isn't really big honestly. :(

But guys, getting to level 100 has been great from the start, but wouldn't you like beyond level 100 to be unlocked post-game through getting/catching a certain amount of Pokemon? I think it'd be an awesome prize, to bypass the ultimate cap!
It might not be big for most people, in which yeah, that's okay! It's just that I don't really see it as that big of a goal anymore. I just remember as a kid, reaching level 100 was so much of a big deal that you got bragging rights with it, and that you had pretty much the ultimate, unbeatable Pokemon, if you did. Nowadays though? That's hardly the case, as there's no "bragging rights" with going to level 100, but instead a "oh, I got to level 100! That's cool."

Like I said, If GF added some meaning to it, then I'd be completely okay with it. I just don't see why they'd have to make it so high for very little reason. The same applies for bypassing the level cap. I just feel it'd be something that would appeal strictly to the younger audience (but there are always exceptions, of course).
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Old March 14th, 2013, 05:34 AM
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Even if you've bypassed the level cap, there would still be an optimum level, even if the level is 1000. When you've reached that, perhaps it would become more of an accomplishment than just reaching level 100, but... yes, then you'd have to ask yourself, "what next"? Even if you've reached level 1000, it's still going to be just level 1000. Technically you'll won't be able to fully reach your pokemon's maximum potential until you've done some EV training, and even then, a pokemon has their own limits.

In any case, I'm sort of indifferent when it comes to levels, or things like that, hence why I was thinking last night that they could also slightly change the amount of experience points given throughout the game. I really hope that Audino is in this game too, and maybe another pokemon that has a tenancy to give out a very big number of experience points as well. Nowadays... yes, I'm a lazy guy when it comes to pokemon, so, the more exp to get, the better, imo.

Now I'm thinking, wouldn't it also be cool if there was a chance to get exp outside of battles? Like, special training? Say there was a minigame that requires your pokemon to run, and jump through obstacles. Won't that encourage your pokemon to run and jump faster? Wouldn't that count as "experience"?
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