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  #1    
Old April 6th, 2013 (06:45 PM).
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Greetings all! For the past couple of years PC has remained largely static in terms of how community-wide votes/ polls are conducted in the Emulation section. Very few changes have been made to how they are run due to not seeing a need for change, or even laziness when it comes to deciding on possible steps forward. The annual PC tradition of complaining about the winner is unlikely to go away as a result, but hopefully a shake-up of the voting process could help to alleviate some of the problems that this system is being blamed for.

The goal of this thread is to gauge the community's opinions on how future competitions should be run and what alterations (if any) could be applied as fairly as possible.

Some possible changes that have been raised by members so far include:
  • Making ballots secret
  • Enforcing a post number/ membership length requirement to newer voters
  • Preventing voters from voting for the same hack more than a certain number of times on a single ballot (over multiple categories)
  • Preventing team members (not just the owner) from voting for a hack
  • Having a weighted score distribution of some kind
  • Making it so only hacks that have a public beta can be voted for
  • Having a dozen or so pre-selected hacks up for category nomination in the first round rather than every hack on the forum being eligible
  • Adding a nomination round where people nominate hacks which are then check up against qualification criteria before moving to a public voting round
  • Allowing Sideshow Showcase hacks to be eligible in certain categories (e.g Graphics and Gameplay)
  • Removing the public vote entirely and leaving it up to just a handful of veterans

By all means, these are not the only ideas up for debate - They're just to get the ball rolling. What we really want to hear is what you want changed. This may turn out to be an massive overhaul of what has been a pretty copy+paste system so if you would like to be heard, now is the time to speak up!

We would mainly like to hear from people who have experienced one, two or even more Hack of the Year/ other large community competitions, but if you have an idea to improve future contests then don't hesitate to chime in!
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  #2    
Old April 7th, 2013 (02:32 AM).
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AmazingCharizard
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Personally, I would welcome the most changes you listed there. I don´t like it when e.g. people with 1 post apart from the last suggestion. Excluding "newbies" might be a good idea but if only a selected number was allowed to vote...I dunno, doesn´t seem right here
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  #3    
Old April 7th, 2013 (03:05 AM).
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I agree with all of the points listed apart from the last one, because even if it was done fairly if the Noobhack of the Year doesn't get voted there will be another crapstorm and people will say "ETS RIGED!"
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  #4    
Old April 7th, 2013 (06:32 AM).
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DrFuji View Post
  • Making ballots secret yes
  • Enforcing a post number/ membership length requirement to newer voters yes
  • Preventing voters from voting for the same hack more than a certain number of times on a single ballot (over multiple categories) no. Because sometimes a hack really does the have best mapping and scripting or whatever.
  • Preventing team members (not just the owner) from voting for a hack yes
  • Having a weighted score distribution of some kind yes
  • Making it so only hacks that have a public beta can be voted for yes
  • Having a dozen or so pre-selected hacks up for category nomination in the first round rather than every hack on the forum being eligible yes
  • Adding a nomination round where people nominate hacks which are then check up against qualification criteria before moving to a public voting round yes
  • Allowing Sideshow Showcase hacks to be eligible in certain categories (e.g Graphics and Gameplay) yes
  • Removing the public vote entirely and leaving it up to just a handful of veterans! no, that ruins the whole point of the contest I think. The public vote might suck (in fact it always sucks) but I like that everyone gets a say. HotY should reflect what the average people like, even if anyone with half a brain knows it's terrible.

                                                                      
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  #5    
Old April 7th, 2013 (06:37 AM).
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My opinion kinda falls to the same category as that one Spherical Ice and hinkage.
Also, I think having some kind of scoring system instead of straight polls would be a good idea.
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  #6    
Old April 8th, 2013 (01:52 PM).
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I've been here for 2-3 HOTY (Sienna(Kind-of), Life of Guardians, and Light Platinum) I also remember doing I think a few HOTM's too. There really needs to be a change in the voting system and I'm glad it's starting to change now. I like alot of these but I do have problems with two of them.
Quote:
Preventing voters from voting for the same hack more than a certain number of times on a single ballot (over multiple categories)
I kind-of like this because competitions won't be clogged with newbies and band-waggoners that will vote for a single hack for everything just because of the popularity, so in a way, this is a good idea. But, like Hinkage said, some hacks do deserve more than one category to some voters. It's an okay idea, but it would be very hard to execute it so everyone will be happy.

Quote:
Removing the public vote entirely and leaving it up to just a handful of veterans
I approve of this because I am a veteran now and I can have more say than other people.
Mwahahahahaha!

In all honesty, like Spherical Ice said, noobs will say it's rigged just because the "Noob Hack" didn't win. Also, like Hinkage said, it would ruin the contest. I kind-of like this because the votes wouldn't be clogged with the posts from noobs and band-waggoners, but again, not everyone would be happy about everything and it might make matters worse.
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  #7    
Old April 11th, 2013 (12:22 AM).
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Maybe for the final judging for HoTY get a few more people involved other than just staff because most of you seem to have the same or similar opinions about hacks and what you prefer?
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  #8    
Old May 16th, 2013 (10:42 AM). Edited May 20th, 2013 by Projectwolfie.
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Sorry about taking so long to post...

Sideshow showcase should definitely be available for gameplay. Heck, here on PC it's definitely arguable that Sideshows like Yet Another Fire Red Hack or Touhoumon Emerald 1.82 are far and above what you'd get out of your normal Hack Showcase offering in actual gameplay. HOWEVER, if ballots aren't secret along with this things can turn out rather bad. Graphics should not have Sideshow included as for the most part they either are using graphics from other sources or barely even change them at all. Scripts however, may be interesting as many still do quite a bit of work "under the hood" so to speak.

I would also like to propose a limit for hacks based on how long it's been since they have been worked on. This clears out the people who are going to automatically vote for something annually without even doing so much as looking at the other offerings, while giving newer hacks people don't necessarily try because they're not as popular a chance. About a year old or so only should suffice. I hear the argument about the fact that there aren't enough to facilitate this, but I believe we have plenty to work with.

Veterans only sounds silly for such a large event, you'd get rage spilling over everywhere.
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  #9    
Old July 16th, 2013 (11:48 AM).
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I think the Hack of the Year committee should solely exist of previous winners.
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  #10    
Old July 19th, 2013 (01:15 PM). Edited July 19th, 2013 by molivious.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Manipulation View Post
I think the Hack of the Year committee should solely exist of previous winners.
you mean consist? but anyway, that's not why I'm here.

Disregarding the fact that I'm a nobody and merely just a passersby in the hacking scene, I should still be allowed to give my two cents, right? (I'll be borrowing the word "committee" from you Manipulation, thanks)
Quote:
  1. Making ballots secret
  2. Preventing team members (not just the owner) from voting for a hack
  3. Having a weighted score distribution of some kind
  4. Making it so only hacks that have a public beta can be voted for
  5. Allowing Sideshow Showcase hacks to be eligible in certain categories (e.g Graphics and Gameplay)
Agree. In fact, these should be "pinned down". They'll do more good than harm. As for #4... as long as you're involving #1 (qualification criteria part) in the quote BELOW, then sure. With all due respect to the ones who made them, I personally don't think all hacks with public betas are automatically eligible. For #5, I'm going with Projectwolfie's opinion.
Quote:
  1. Adding a nomination round where people nominate hacks which are then check up against qualification criteria before moving to a public voting round
  2. Having a dozen or so pre-selected hacks up for category nomination in the first round rather than every hack on the forum being eligible
1) Good idea. Additionally, a poll could be handy in this case just so you could apply to what's mentioned in #2 (quoted above).
2) Yup. this is probably the best way to "downsize" such a huge selection. A good combo with #1.

The nomination phase should be done this way, in this order, imo.

Quote:
  1. Enforcing a post number/ membership length requirement to newer voters
  2. Preventing voters from voting for the same hack more than a certain number of times on a single ballot (over multiple categories)
  3. Removing the public vote entirely and leaving it up to just a handful of veterans
Hmm... there may be other ways you could manage an "intelligent" election without having to undergo these (pardon the language, can't think of another word) strict boundaries.

But as for #1, 1 month requirement (prior to the election), at least 30 posts, and no more than 3-5(?) infraction points (or w/e it was called), should be fair enough to keep away from those "spambots". If you could track their recent activity, that would help too, instead of checking how much posts they've had (since they could've made all those alt accounts years ago). Now...

IMO, there should be at least two phases for the whole election process.

- Phase 1 -
Spoiler:
Nomination. Pretty much what I've commented on the 2nd quote. People nominate, the committee decides whether it's a valid nominee.

Nomination (members) -> Elimination (committee).


- Phase 2 -
Spoiler:
Election. Now this is where things get colorful and messy. There will be votes here and there, coming from reliable and unreliable sources alike. How do we sort out those "n00b votes" and "acceptable votes"?

Let the voter give brief reviews/comments for their chosen hacks to explain why they gave their votes (and scores) to that hack under that criteria. "Why?", you may ask. To ensure that they've actually played or seen that game. This also gives everyone a chance to vote at the same time, not just veterans. Truth is, even the so-called "veterans" may have biases, not just the "n00bs". Let's not deny that fact. No offense to anyone, don't misunderstand, we all just want everyone to get their fair shot, don't we?

While I also must admit that even this system is not 100% foolproof, it still allows us to dispatch a good number of those votes that are usually just submitted to mess and rig with the system.

Just to point it out, this process will be no different than phase 1:
Vote (members) -> Elimination (committee)

But anyway, as for scoring. Members should be allowed to "score" for as much hacks as they want, provided that their vote is considered/accepted as "valid". Scoring will be done in a scale of 1-10, 10 being the highest. And at the end of Phase 2, comes the tallying of votes. Since it's a scoring system, there should be a formula, such as:
Spoiler:
Code:
                                    Total score
                                 ----------------
                                 Total # of voters

So now, for example, 4 different people voted for X hack (mapping) with the following scores: 8 / 7 / 7 / 6

8+7+7+6
--------
   4

Therefore, X hack receives an average of 7 (mapping)


I know it's probably not the best idea, though, because its a much, much, more tedious thing to do (for the committee/tallymen/syndicates) than the standard voting process. Feel free to critique/argue/agree/comment/flavor it up. This is a discussion thread, no?
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  #11    
Old October 6th, 2013 (07:55 AM).
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Quote:
Originally Posted by molivious View Post
Spoiler:
you mean consist? but anyway, that's not why I'm here.

Disregarding the fact that I'm a nobody and merely just a passersby in the hacking scene, I should still be allowed to give my two cents, right? (I'll be borrowing the word "committee" from you Manipulation, thanks)
Agree. In fact, these should be "pinned down". They'll do more good than harm. As for #4... as long as you're involving #1 (qualification criteria part) in the quote BELOW, then sure. With all due respect to the ones who made them, I personally don't think all hacks with public betas are automatically eligible. For #5, I'm going with Projectwolfie's opinion.
1) Good idea. Additionally, a poll could be handy in this case just so you could apply to what's mentioned in #2 (quoted above).
2) Yup. this is probably the best way to "downsize" such a huge selection. A good combo with #1.

The nomination phase should be done this way, in this order, imo.

Hmm... there may be other ways you could manage an "intelligent" election without having to undergo these (pardon the language, can't think of another word) strict boundaries.

But as for #1, 1 month requirement (prior to the election), at least 30 posts, and no more than 3-5(?) infraction points (or w/e it was called), should be fair enough to keep away from those "spambots". If you could track their recent activity, that would help too, instead of checking how much posts they've had (since they could've made all those alt accounts years ago). Now...

IMO, there should be at least two phases for the whole election process.

- Phase 1 -
Spoiler:
Nomination. Pretty much what I've commented on the 2nd quote. People nominate, the committee decides whether it's a valid nominee.

Nomination (members) -> Elimination (committee).


- Phase 2 -
Spoiler:
Election. Now this is where things get colorful and messy. There will be votes here and there, coming from reliable and unreliable sources alike. How do we sort out those "n00b votes" and "acceptable votes"?

Let the voter give brief reviews/comments for their chosen hacks to explain why they gave their votes (and scores) to that hack under that criteria. "Why?", you may ask. To ensure that they've actually played or seen that game. This also gives everyone a chance to vote at the same time, not just veterans. Truth is, even the so-called "veterans" may have biases, not just the "n00bs". Let's not deny that fact. No offense to anyone, don't misunderstand, we all just want everyone to get their fair shot, don't we?

While I also must admit that even this system is not 100% foolproof, it still allows us to dispatch a good number of those votes that are usually just submitted to mess and rig with the system.

Just to point it out, this process will be no different than phase 1:
Vote (members) -> Elimination (committee)

But anyway, as for scoring. Members should be allowed to "score" for as much hacks as they want, provided that their vote is considered/accepted as "valid". Scoring will be done in a scale of 1-10, 10 being the highest. And at the end of Phase 2, comes the tallying of votes. Since it's a scoring system, there should be a formula, such as:
Spoiler:
Code:
                                    Total score
                                 ----------------
                                 Total # of voters

So now, for example, 4 different people voted for X hack (mapping) with the following scores: 8 / 7 / 7 / 6

8+7+7+6
--------
   4

Therefore, X hack receives an average of 7 (mapping)


I know it's probably not the best idea, though, because its a much, much, more tedious thing to do (for the committee/tallymen/syndicates) than the standard voting process. Feel free to critique/argue/agree/comment/flavor it up. This is a discussion thread, no?
I agree with your suggestion, this would be a good and fair system for the best hack election.


Also I suggest an award for the hack with least number of bugs/glitches in the public beta. This needs a lot of analysis though. The hack owner should list the bugs/glitches in the first post so that it can be evaluated, even that should be considered for the Hack of the Year award too.

Another thing, to concentrate only on the Hack of the Year election the Hack of the Month award should be removed.
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