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  #26    
Old April 21st, 2013 (08:14 PM).
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Verb of the Week

Avoir

Present Tense

J'ai
Tu as
Il/Elle/On/Qui a
Nous avons
Vous avez
Ils/Elles ont

Imparfait

J'avais
Tu avais
Il/Elle/On/Qui avait
Nous avions
Vous aviez
Ils/Elles avaient

Future Tense

J'aurai
Tu auras
Il/Elle/On/Qui aura
Nous aurons
Vous aurez
Ils/Elles auront

Avoir is an irregular verb with conjugations that do not follow any simple patterns.

The verb itself is particularly important when forming the past. Like Être, many verbs and contexts rely on the verb Avoir to form the Passé Composé, the Futur Antérieur tense, the Plus-Que-Parfait tense, the Conditionnel Passé and Subjonctif (past). Without it, it would be very hard to say that things have or will have occurred! Note that there are more verb forms that are less used that require a correct conjugation of Avoir to function properly.

Sample Phrases

As-tu reçu mon cadeau que j'avais envoyé par la poste ? (Past & Plus-Que-Parfait)
- Did you receive my gift by mail?
Je viendrai quand j'aurai terminé mes devoirs. (Futur Antérieur)
- I'll come when I will have finished my homework.
Si j'avais eu le temps, je te l'aurais apporté. (Plus-Que-Parfait & Conditionnel Passé)
- If I had had the time, I would have brought it to you.

What kind of phrases can you create using Avoir? Do you have any stories to share about having learned Avoir or how you have used it in the past?



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Old April 21st, 2013 (08:29 PM).
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Do you have any grey poupon? Non, parce que j'habite près de canada, j'ai soulement de moutarde érable :( Damn Canadians (I kid)

I think I can speak enough French to hold a basic conversation but it's been a while since I've communicated in it, so I know I'm rusty! I'd love to join this club to sharpen up on my French skills x) I took French for three years in high school and two semesters in college, but I've never been able to really communicate at an advanced level in it, and because I'm always so out of practice with it I forget things ;~;

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Old April 21st, 2013 (08:45 PM).
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HEY funny French story for y'all! However, I'm gonna spell it wrong I'm sure, and bear in mind I don't have the accents lol. Anyway, during Christmas time, my sister's French class was going over une creche and my sister said, "That sounds delicious!" and the teacher was like, "...That's the nativity scene." lmao
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Old April 21st, 2013 (09:05 PM).
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Q1: How do I use imparfait vs. passe compose? (I don't remember this DX)

Q2: When I say "j'avais eu" and "l'aurais apporte" do I slide the s onto the next word? And as an extention of this, do nous aurons and ils auront sound the same until you you say "nous aurons a la" and "auront-ils?" so you vocalize the consonant?
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Old April 21st, 2013 (09:24 PM). Edited April 22nd, 2013 by Team Fail.
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Quote originally posted by BlahISuck:
Q1: How do I use imparfait vs. passe compose? (I don't remember this DX)
Just gonna say that if you wanna use PC or Imparfait, passé composé is for events that had happened on a one-time basis in the past, ie, "J'ai travaillé à 18h." (I worked at 6 PM.) But, if you say something you did in the past, but you did it more than once, like going back to a place on some kind of basis, like a job or a restaurant that you like, you'd use Imparfait. ie, "Je suis allé travaillé." (I went to work.) I think this is right, feel free to correct me if I'm wrong. This is what I was told and what I can recall, but yeah.

I might tutor from time to time as well (Minor grammar things that I do know), so feel free to add me to the list. If you need proof, I can show my DELF A1.
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  #31    
Old April 21st, 2013 (10:01 PM).
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You mean je travaillais? Right? Je suis allé travaillé sounds a lot more like "I was going to worked" which kinda sounds like a nonsense phrase to me. It's absolutely right that it's like the continuous past. Like "Je travaillais quand le téléphone a sonné." I think. I know my verb conjugation sort of. Not really by heart or anything, but I think that's what it was.
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Old April 21st, 2013 (10:04 PM).
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Quote originally posted by EGKangaroo:
You mean je travaillais? Right? Je suis allé travaillé sounds a lot more like "I was going to worked" which kinda sounds like a nonsense phrase to me. It's absolutely right that it's like the continuous past. Like "Je travaillais quand le téléphone a sonné." I think. I know my verb conjugation sort of. Not really by heart or anything, but I think that's what it was.
Thanks. I'm trying to remember all my conjugations, but at 10PM and desparate of sleep, yeaaaah.

And oh god conjugation. I really hate doing it.
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  #33    
Old April 21st, 2013 (10:33 PM). Edited April 21st, 2013 by Yusshin.
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Quote:
Name: AzaleaLightning
Country: Etats-Unis
Interest: Tutee & Discussion
Do you have any grey poupon? Non, parce que j'habite près de canada, j'ai soulement de moutarde érable :( Damn Canadians (I kid)

I think I can speak enough French to hold a basic conversation but it's been a while since I've communicated in it, so I know I'm rusty! I'd love to join this club to sharpen up on my French skills x) I took French for three years in high school and two semesters in college, but I've never been able to really communicate at an advanced level in it, and because I'm always so out of practice with it I forget things ;~;
Welcome to the Club! Glad to have you, Azalea!



Quote:
HEY funny French story for y'all! However, I'm gonna spell it wrong I'm sure, and bear in mind I don't have the accents lol. Anyway, during Christmas time, my sister's French class was going over une creche and my sister said, "That sounds delicious!" and the teacher was like, "...That's the nativity scene." lmao
That's hilarious lol Reminds me of Talladega Nights XD



Quote:
Q1: How do I use imparfait vs. passe compose? (I don't remember this DX)
Like Team Fail stated, Passé Composé is for one-time instances. Imparfait deals with long-term situations or emotions in particular. The two are often mixed when something occurs while something else is happening, too.

♡ Example: in English, we would say, "I received a card from my mother."

In French, we would use Passé Composé because when you receive something, you take it and it's done. This is translated therefore as, "J'ai reçu une carte de la part de ma mère" or more simply, "J'ai reçu une carte de ma mère."

However, something that occurs over time in the past / an emotion would use Imparfait.

♡ Example: in English, we would say, "I was happy."

In French, this is translated as, "J'étais heureux." (Masculine)

This is because you are not happy for one second. This happiness typically doesn't appear and then dissipate instantly. You are happy for a long period of time.

Combined, you can use Passé Composé and Imparfait to describe events that happen as another action is being performed.

♡ Example: In English, we would say, "When I received the card, I was happy."

In French, words such as "Quand," "Lorsque," and "Pendant" are hints that something is going to interrupt another action. The aforementioned English phrase is translated as, "Quand j'ai reçu la carte, j'étais heureux."

Because receiving the card is interrupting the fact that you are happy, it is conjugated in Passé Composé.

♡ Other Examples:

Lorsque je faisais mes devoirs, le téléphone a sonné.
- While I was doing my homework, the telephone rang.
Pendant que je marchais dehors, il a commencé à neiger.
- While I was walking outside, it started to snow.
Quand j'allumais le console Xbox, mon chat m'a sauté dessus.
- When I was turning on my Xbox, my cat jumped on me.



Quote:
Q2: When I say "j'avais eu" and "l'aurais apporte" do I slide the s onto the next word? And as an extention of this, do nous aurons and ils auront sound the same until you you say "nous aurons a la" and "auront-ils?" so you vocalize the consonant?
"E," "ES," and "S" sometimes apply to the final conjugated, past-tense verb. Circumstances include:

Être
♡ Direct Objects
♡ Aforementioned Direct Objects

★ First off, Être conjugated in the past always adopts the "sex" of the pronoun used with it.

♡ Je suis parti(e)
♡ Tu es parti(e)
♡ Il est parti
♡ Elle est partie
♡ Nous sommes parti(e)s
♡ Ils sont partis
♡ Elles sont parties

Verbs conjugated with Être include: naître, partir, aller, mourir.

Verbs conjugated 99.9% of the time with Être include: monter, descendre, sortir, entrer.

Most verbs can be conjugated with Être pending the context. When a person is doing an action, Avoir is used; when a person receives an action, Être is used.

♡ Example: J'ai vendu ma commode. (I sold my dresser.) & Ma commode est vendue. (My dresser is sold.)

Notice that in the first case, I am doing something - selling - while in the second, my dresser is received an action. Also notice that in the latter scenario, "Commode" (feminine) has an "E" attached to the end of "vendu(e)." This is, again, because the action is being received. If it is being performed, this is not the case, unless the performed action is an "Être" verb (as shown above with the conjugation of "Partir.")

★ Direct Objects are the same in French and English (and Spanish, etc.) When you write a verb - for example, I gave (J'ai donné) - you ask afterwards "Who?" "What?" and "To Who?" If you can answer "Who?" or "What?" then you have a direct object; otherwise, "To Who?" is indirect and [u]does not adopt "E," "ES," or "S" after the conjugated past-tensed verb.

♡ Example: I gave my sister a flower. (J'ai donné une fleur à ma soeur.)
- You gave what? A flowere. * Direct Object
- To who? My sister. *Indirect Object

Now, simply writing "J'ai donné une fleur à ma soeur" does not warrant adding anything to the end of "donné" (if you noticed). You need to have either mentioned "flower" before this particular sentence (more on this later) or use indirect and direct pronouns before the verb.

In this case, in French we can simply "J'ai donné une fleur à ma soeur" to "Je lui l'ai donnée." The "E" is adopted because we have understood by this point that the "La" (simplified to "L' " due to a vowel succeeding it) is a flower, which is feminine. If it has been many flowers, this would have been written: "Je lui les ai données." In terms of masculine plural nouns, such as les jeux-vidéos, we could rewrite this phrase as "Je lui les ai donnés," where "lui" is still "my sister" and "les" now reflects multiple video-games.

Note that "des jeux-vidéos" adopts the "en" pronoun, and "en" does not under any circumstance adopt "E", "ES," or "S" endings to conjugated verbs. Never, ever!

★ Continuing on the aforementioned idea of "already-mentioned direct objects," if you have already described an object prior - and the context allows it to be understood that the direct object pronoun reflects this object - you adopt the necessary "E," "ES," and "S" endings.

♡ Example: "Marguerite m'avait dit qu'elle aime ces fleurs. Pour sa fête, je lui les ai offertes." (Marguerite told me she likes these flowers. For her birthday, I gave them to her.)

Notice that the context allows us to understand that "les" refers to the flowers, which is why "ES" is added to the end of "Offert(es)."

This is particularly noticeable in phrases where "que" is involved.

♡ Example: "Les fleurs que j'avais offertes à Marguerite étaient ses préférées."
(The flowers that I had offered Marguerite were her favourites.)

Note that no direct or indirect object pronounces exist. Because we are told before the "que" that there are flowers being given, "ES" is added to the end of "Offert(es)." The same is also true in the case of the last word, "Préféré(es)" where again "ES" is added to adjust and accommodate the fact that we are talking about flowers, and that flowers themselves were mentioned before the "que."

However, if the context explains the direct object after the verb, the first verb does not adopt "E," "ES," or "S" even if normally, under other circumstances, the verb would have done so.

♡ Example: J'ai fini ! Quoi ? Ma composition ! (I finished! What? My essay!)

Because "Composition" is read after the verb, the verb remains unaffected; you would not add "E" at the end of it. However, you would add it in the case where the sentence read, "La composition que j'ai finie était dure." (The essay that I finished was hard.)



Does that help?



Quote:
You mean je travaillais? Right? Je suis allé travaillé sounds a lot more like "I was going to worked" which kinda sounds like a nonsense phrase to me. It's absolutely right that it's like the continuous past. Like "Je travaillais quand le téléphone a sonné." I think. I know my verb conjugation sort of. Not really by heart or anything, but I think that's what it was.
It would actually be "Je suis allé(e) travailler." It can be said to really emphasize the actual going to work part, esp. because "Je travaillais" and "J'ai travaillé" translate as "I was working" and "I worked" respectively. Doesn't really mean the same thing in certain contexts.

Your telephone example is spot on, though.
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  #34    
Old April 22nd, 2013 (12:45 AM).
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My least favourite part of French grammar is the Subjonctif. It was bad enough to learn all the irregular forms, but there was also the (combination of) words it should be used with. I just know that it's not used in combination with "Espérer" (to hope) and that "peux" changes into "puisse".


Ah, Yussun, la géologie vous intéressez? Je suis en train de faire mes études de Géology à l'université. C'est amusant de trouver quelqu'un d'autre qui sache la méchanique de la terre comme ça.

Now would you look at that, subjonctif. :T
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Old April 22nd, 2013 (11:03 AM).
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no comprendo

So is…um… any of this.

Imparfait - past?

idk any of this
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Old April 22nd, 2013 (11:15 AM). Edited April 22nd, 2013 by Yusshin.
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Subjonctif is a bit of an oddball, since in English we skip out on "that" a lot i.e. "The kid I like" is supposed to be "The kid that I like." Regardless it being there or not, it doesn't change how the verb looks either.

Subjonctif is generally used after "que" and is popular with the verb "faut," "avant" and "apres."

I find it to be a "feeling" conjugation, but you need to be comfortable with the language audibly and verbally in order to "feel" it right. If it sounds nice, go with it lol Otherwise, like with "Esperer," use the normal forms. It's a lot of practice.

Quote:
no comprendo

So is…um… any of this.

Imparfait - past?

idk any of this
Imparfait is past for emotions and actions occuring over time.

Passé Composé is past for incidents that occur one time or that do not last very long.

They can be combined where something in Imparfait is occuring but is interrupted (the interrupting action would use Passé Composé).
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Old April 22nd, 2013 (11:26 AM).
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So past-perfect and past.

I find those terms a bit better because they make sense in any language :)

And avoir would be like to make or something?
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Old April 22nd, 2013 (11:31 AM).
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Do you have any grey poupon? No, sorry xD

I took French for over 4 years and j'adore cette langue <3 I haven't been practicing a lot recently so I may have forgotten lots of things but back when I took French in school, I was one of the best in my class. I'd like to get back into it by joining this club. I've been thinking of studying Translation in university (languages: German, English and French) but I'm not entirely sure if that's what I'd like to do and whether my French skills are good enough...

Well, enough of that, I'd be happy to join this club!
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Old April 22nd, 2013 (01:33 PM).
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And avoir would be like to make or something?
Nope, "to make" is Faire. Faire also means "to do" pending the context.

♡ Example: Je fais du gateau. (I'm making cake) & Fais tes devoirs! (Do your homework!)

Avoir means "to have" in English.

♡ J'ai du gateau. (I have some cake)
♡ J'ai fait mes devoirs. (Literally: I have done my homework) (Simple: I did my homework)

Quote:
I took French for over 4 years and j'adore cette langue <3 I haven't been practicing a lot recently so I may have forgotten lots of things but back when I took French in school, I was one of the best in my class. I'd like to get back into it by joining this club. I've been thinking of studying Translation in university (languages: German, English and French) but I'm not entirely sure if that's what I'd like to do and whether my French skills are good enough...
Welcome to the Club! I was considering translation in university, too, but now I'm aiming for an English major with two minors in either French & Geology or History & Geology. I could make a dandy translator, though. If I have time, I might grab a degree in that, too.

Quote:
Ah, Yussun, la géologie vous intéressez? Je suis en train de faire mes études de Géology à l'université. C'est amusant de trouver quelqu'un d'autre qui sache la méchanique de la terre comme ça.
Yes, geology has and always has been my thing. I do not know someone who loves rocks as much as me. I found a chunk of Calcite outside and correctly classified it as such. My teacher told me that it was probably Potassium Feldspar - given the cleavage - but I felt otherwise. I told her to spray it with HCl and turns out, it fizzed right up lol /score-one-for-me

I also found a nice chunk of diorite outside. She was surprised at what a great sample it was! She's using it as a test / quiz rock from now on lol

Anyway, back to French. VM me.
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Old April 22nd, 2013 (08:57 PM).
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Quote originally posted by Yusshin:
It would actually be "Je suis allé(e) travailler." It can be said to really emphasize the actual going to work part, esp. because "Je travaillais" and "J'ai travaillé" translate as "I was working" and "I worked" respectively. Doesn't really mean the same thing in certain contexts.
I thought that was correct :/ But yeah. Verbs are painful all in all.
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  #41    
Old April 22nd, 2013 (09:46 PM).
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Quote originally posted by Team Fail:
I thought that was correct :/ But yeah. Verbs are painful all in all.
It was very close. The form was right, but the final verb was just a tad off.

Je suis allé(e) travailler literally translates as "I went to work." The italicized part helps to determine (and understand) why an infinitif is used. Even in English, an infinitif is used - "to work" - so it being the same in French facilitates the task. If you want to use a verb after passé composé is used, just remember: infinitif!

♡ Je suis parti(e) jouer au football avec mes amis. (I left to play soccer with my friends.)
♡ Je suis sorti(e) prendre une tasse au resto. (I went out to grab a drink at the restaurant.)

Generally, I find it only occurs with moving verbs, like "to go" or "to leave," though it's not exclusive. I might find some more examples later to support the latter statement; can't think of any atm.
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Old April 22nd, 2013 (09:47 PM).
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I didn't mean adding e, es, or s for gender + plurality, but if you would pronounce the consonant - like normally you say nous-auron and don't pronounce the s. but if you said nous aurons a la would it sound like nous-aurons-a la? And like wise would Auront-ils sound like it's spelled versus ils auront sounding like ils-auron? Like usually the last consonant is silent, but you would link it if you had a vowel beginning the next word, yes?
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Old April 22nd, 2013 (10:04 PM). Edited April 22nd, 2013 by Yusshin.
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Quote originally posted by BlahISuck:
I didn't mean adding e, es, or s for gender + plurality, but if you would pronounce the consonant - like normally you say nous-auron and don't pronounce the s. but if you said nous aurons a la would it sound like nous-aurons-a la? And like wise would Auront-ils sound like it's spelled versus ils auront sounding like ils-auron? Like usually the last consonant is silent, but you would link it if you had a vowel beginning the next word, yes?
Ah, I only explained imparfait and passé composé and when to add "E," "ES," and "S."

★ In regards to this question in particular:

In the case where the phrase is along the lines of "nous irons à la fête," you do not pronounce that final "s" in "irons" because it would sound funny. There are no liaisons between "irons" and "à;" however, there is most certainly a liaison between the "S" in "nous" and the "I" in "irons," as you have already pointed out with "aurons." The same principle applies.

"Auront-ils" sounds like it is spelled due to a liaison forming between the "T" and the "I" in "ils." When it is written "Ils auront," the "T" is not pronounced, but a liaison instead occurs between the "S" in "ils" and the "A" in "auront," as you have pointed out already.

So, yes, you do link if two vowels seemingly are coming together, otherwise it sounds really weird.

The only time I can think where this doesn't occur is with the word "Plus." Some people pronounce the "S" and others don't. From my experience, the "S" is pronounced even in the absence of a vowel following it if it is in the positive sense. If it is negative, the "S" is pronounced only if a vowel follows it; however, I don't think this actually happens, since the negative context of "Plus" tends to warrant a "de" after it.

♡ Positive Phrase: J'en veux plus ! (I want more!) ("S" is pronounced)
♡ Positive Phrase: Plus qu'on attend, plus qu'on devient impatient. (The more we wait, the more impatient we become.) ("S" is pronounced)
♡ Negative Phrase: Je ne supporte plus ton arrogance. (I'm not dealing with / supporting your arrogance anymore.) ("S" is silent)
♡ Negative Phrase: Je n'ai plus besoin de ton aide. (I don't need your help anymore.) ("S" is silent)
♡ Negative Phrase: Ils ne veulent plus de toi. (They don't want you anymore.) ("S" is silent)

Also, the word "moins" is funky because the "S" is never liaisoned; it is always silent.

★ Also, about "aurons" and "auront" and their pronunciations in general, the "ons" in "aurons" is lighter-sounding than the "ont" in "auront." Think, how have you heard or pronounced "ils ont"? It sounds more like "awn" - a deeper sound. The "ons" in "aurons" is more like "ahn" which is a bit lighter sounding.

The same can be said about the difference between conditionnel and futur simple. What is the difference in sound between "ferai" and "ferais"? The "ai" in "ferai" is pronounced as you would think - "eh" (Canadian slang) or the letter "a" in the English alphabet (a, b, c, d, e, f, g...) - while the "ais" in "ferais" sounds more like the "e" in the word "fresh." The "aehhh" sound. That's because of the "S" at the end of "ferais" (obviously); it modifies the sound by a tiny wee little bit. It's a very subtle sound difference, like the "ons" in "aurons" compared to the "ont" in "auront," but nonetheless it exists.

★ Does that make sense?
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Old April 22nd, 2013 (10:08 PM).
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Old April 22nd, 2013 (10:14 PM).
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Quote originally posted by Yusshin:
It would actually be "Je suis allé(e) travailler." It can be said to really emphasize the actual going to work part, esp. because "Je travaillais" and "J'ai travaillé" translate as "I was working" and "I worked" respectively. Doesn't really mean the same thing in certain contexts.

Your telephone example is spot on, though.
But I said exactly what you said. That imparfait is continuous past.
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Old April 22nd, 2013 (10:15 PM). Edited April 22nd, 2013 by Yusshin.
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Quote originally posted by BlahISuck:
Yes! Even if I have little French ability, I still want to sound French.
Yep! A good way to practice is to watch TV in French. Add subtitles for context if you want, but it really helps in just toning your hearing, which ultimately improves pronunciation.

A lot of DVDs come with French audio so it shouldn't be too hard. You could even super-test yourself and make the subtitles in French: improve everything at once, nyaa.

Sometimes text makes it hard to illustrate the differences in pronunciations, so I'd definitely use DVD resources or check out the Weather Network in French (MétéoMédia). Typically comes free with the basic TV package.



Quote:
But I said exactly what you said. That imparfait is continuous past.
Yes, and I never said that you were wrong about that. I said your imparfait example was correct (the telephone one).

In that quote, I'm pointing out the difference between "Je suis allé(e) travailler," (which Team Fail spelled as "travaillé") "Je travaillais" and "J'ai travaillé." Then I explained about infinitifs following verb conjugations.

This: "Je travaillais quand le téléphone a sonné."

Was 100% correct. Perfect use of imparfait and passé composé.
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Old April 22nd, 2013 (10:19 PM).
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Quote originally posted by Yusshin:
It would actually be "Je suis allé(e) travailler." It can be said to really emphasize the actual going to work part, esp. because "Je travaillais" and "J'ai travaillé" translate as "I was working" and "I worked" respectively. Doesn't really mean the same thing in certain contexts.

Your telephone example is spot on, though.
But I said exactly what you said. That imparfait is continuous past. I don't get what you're trying to correct about me, because I never claimed imparfait and PC are the same and you just repeated what I said and then said I was wrong.
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Old April 22nd, 2013 (10:26 PM).
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Quote:
Yes, and I never said that you were wrong about that. I said your imparfait example was correct (the telephone one).

In that quote, I'm pointing out the difference between "Je suis allé(e) travailler," (which Team Fail spelled as "travaillé") "Je travaillais" and "J'ai travaillé." Then I explained about infinitifs following verb conjugations.

This: "Je travaillais quand le téléphone a sonné."

Was 100% correct. Perfect use of imparfait and passé composé.
The correction was from Team Fail's post which was carried over into your post and had nothing to do with imparfait. Team Fail had written "Je suis allé(e) travaillé" to which you stated:

Quote:
Je suis allé travaillé sounds a lot more like "I was going to worked" which kinda sounds like a nonsense phrase to me.
Which is correct; it is nonsense, unless it is written as "Je suis allé(e) travailler" in which it makes 100% sense. My explanation there was to clarify how to write that properly since Team Fail made a small error. You pointed out that it sounds wrong, but since no correction was given for that particular phrase, I wrote it out and explained the difference between that and the two tenses - j'ai travaillé and je travaillais - that we were talking about, since "Je suis allé(e) travailler" is more like a past form of the present participle. It was merely a spelling correction on Team Fail's behalf.

Again, everything you said was 100%. The first portion of my reply was directed at clarifying the correct way to spell "Je suis allé(e) travailler" since, again, Team Fail wrote it a tad wrong ("é" instead of "er") and no grammatical correction was offered outside of it "sounding funny" when translated.

★ Does that make sense now? Your use of imparfait was, again, 100% correct.
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Old April 22nd, 2013 (10:32 PM).
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Ooooh. Sorry. The quoting and stuff confused me and everything. I am really sorry.
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"Three lives of a gamer: the first'll be your best, because you can always restart if it isn't; the second pales in comparison, and the game will cheat you out; but the third one's going to be better, because it gets do or die from then."

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Old April 22nd, 2013 (10:33 PM).
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Quote originally posted by EGKangaroo:
Ooooh. Sorry. The quoting and stuff confused me and everything. I am really sorry.
No, no, it's fine. There were many quotes! And lots of chatter indeed. I was more concerned that you were taking it the wrong way / taking it personally lol

Glad that it's all worked out and we're all on the same page.
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