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  #101    
Old April 30th, 2013, 12:09 PM
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But yeah. You're right when it comes to the fact that it may not really be possible to segregate PC members into groups like 'popular' and 'not-so-popular' as there's no yardstick available for us to measure popularity by. It ain't black and white. After all, a member that's considered popular in a certain part of PC might not be as popular in other areas and different people have different views about their popularity, as a result. We're aiming to give everyone a fair chance. But we aren't doing that if we're basically letting some people ask others to post in their thread while denying a few others based on something as arbitrary as the 'amount of popularity' the person is associated with. That's what you wish to say, right?

The only way to deal with it, I think, is to go with what Kura's suggesting. Reporting cases where some members feel as if a popular member is trying to pimp out their thread would bring it in the staff's notice. And it isn't as if the report is immediately acted upon by a single staff member and dealt with. We, at times, have lengthy discussions regarding what sort of action should be taken in case there's a situation that's a little difficult to deal with. All of the staff team ponder over it and provide their thoughts. And then we go with majority.
Yes! Somewhat, yeah. I feel that the line is actually very blurry, because I feel that context should be taken into /extreme/ consideration here, which is why (not that reporting is a BAD idea , per se) if a report were to be made, caution should be taken as far as the staff is concerned, because it's very easy to misunderstand members and wrongly punish them when in fact, they didn't intend to hurt anyone's feelings at all. Basically this.

> Kura reports
> Dero sees report, discusses it with other staff/h-staff
> Comes to the conclusion to deal with said member
> Member decides to appeal punishment; decides that staff misunderstood.

As rare as that possibility is, do keep in mind that (as far as I know, anyway) it's not like members are included in any way in report discussions, so they can't really defend themselves as far as whether or not they intend to do something, or whether staff have really messed up. In that sense, it becomes a huge slippery slope that I think no one wants to deal with, haha.

Y'know, the more that I think about it, if people are seeing this, I feel that a lot of people are going to be a lot more hesitant in "advertising" their threads, because the actual real possibility exists that people are going to be reporting things left and right, taking things out of context and then it just becomes a mess. .___. That's a worst case scenario thing anyway, and I hope this doesn't happen.
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  #102    
Old April 30th, 2013, 12:15 PM
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I honestly see no reason for anyone to be punished no matter what their popularity levels are.

To be quite frank I think that there really should only be punishment when there is clear and present abusive promotion of the thread in question. Perhaps prohibiting all members from linking their thread too often would be fine. Two or three times in the normal course of a casual 4 hour conversation window is fine. More than that would be a bit excessive. No one should be punished or discouraged unless their thread is seriously dominating the section and there's clear and present evidence that the promotion is causing too much traffic.
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  #103    
Old April 30th, 2013, 12:18 PM
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Because advertising IS after all, a rule here, but gosh, even if it was "Bro, don't let me see you do that again" to avoid this sort of behaviour, then we are all cool. Let's just try and make it fair to everyone ok? That is what I want.

So any opinion to the 2-thread version of this?
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  #104    
Old April 30th, 2013, 12:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Kura View Post
Because advertising IS after all, a rule here, but gosh, even if it was "Bro, don't let me see you do that again" to avoid this sort of behaviour, then we are all cool. Let's just try and make it fair to everyone ok? That is what I want.
In that case, I feel that going with Pachy's suggestion here would be more plausible. But in that sense (at least in the showdown server) that rule is already in place. If you advertise a link too much, you're bound to get muted and/or banned anyway, given enough persistence. If it's a once in a while thing, then fine, but it gets annoying if you do it every single time.

I personally feel that there shouldn't be a numerical limit on how many times a MIC thread should be promoted, as it's sort of common sense (lol sorry if this sounds rude) that you know you're going too far when the link to your MIC thread is dominating a conversation.
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  #105    
Old April 30th, 2013, 12:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Twilight Sky View Post
In that case, I feel that going with Pachy's suggestion here would be more plausible. But in that sense (at least in the showdown server) that rule is already in place. If you advertise a link too much, you're bound to get muted and/or banned anyway, given enough persistence. If it's a once in a while thing, then fine, but it gets annoying if you do it every single time.

I personally feel that there shouldn't be a numerical limit on how many times a MIC thread should be promoted, as it's sort of common sense (lol sorry if this sounds rude) that you know you're going too far when the link to your MIC thread is dominating a conversation.
Agreeing here too, really, with Pachy. I think it's a good compromise.

Either way, if I see abuse, I'll report it. I admit my tolerance level is a lot shorter than many others, but I'll definitely try my best to be liberal too :3
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  #106    
Old April 30th, 2013, 12:45 PM
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Originally Posted by Twilight Sky View Post
Yes! Somewhat, yeah. I feel that the line is actually very blurry, because I feel that context should be taken into /extreme/ consideration here, which is why (not that reporting is a BAD idea , per se) if a report were to be made, caution should be taken as far as the staff is concerned, because it's very easy to misunderstand members and wrongly punish them when in fact, they didn't intend to hurt anyone's feelings at all. Basically this.

> Kura reports
> Dero sees report, discusses it with other staff/h-staff
> Comes to the conclusion to deal with said member
> Member decides to appeal punishment; decides that staff misunderstood.

As rare as that possibility is, do keep in mind that (as far as I know, anyway) it's not like members are included in any way in report discussions, so they can't really defend themselves as far as whether or not they intend to do something, or whether staff have really messed up. In that sense, it becomes a huge slippery slope that I think no one wants to deal with, haha.

Y'know, the more that I think about it, if people are seeing this, I feel that a lot of people are going to be a lot more hesitant in "advertising" their threads, because the actual real possibility exists that people are going to be reporting things left and right, taking things out of context and then it just becomes a mess. .___. That's a worst case scenario thing anyway, and I hope this doesn't happen.
The thing is...the chances of that happening are very low, imo. We discuss stuff quite a lot. People like me don't really comment much apart from cases where things are really black and white (y'all know I'm st00pid :p) but there are quite a few others who really engage in long discussions and consider almost everything about the case in question. I can't really provide proof since I'm...not really allowed to reveal what goes on behind the curtains but...yeah, I can just provide reassurance that something like that has a very low chance of happening.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pachy View Post
I honestly see no reason for anyone to be punished no matter what their popularity levels are.

To be quite frank I think that there really should only be punishment when there is clear and present abusive promotion of the thread in question. Perhaps prohibiting all members from linking their thread too often would be fine. Two or three times in the normal course of a casual 4 hour conversation window is fine. More than that would be a bit excessive. No one should be punished or discouraged unless their thread is seriously dominating the section and there's clear and present evidence that the promotion is causing too much traffic.
The thing is...I never meant to say that the member should be punished. It was more along the lines of the staff members telling the member to cool his jets since s/he's going overboard. :p

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kura View Post
Because advertising IS after all, a rule here, but gosh, even if it was "Bro, don't let me see you do that again" to avoid this sort of behaviour, then we are all cool. Let's just try and make it fair to everyone ok? That is what I want.

So any opinion to the 2-thread version of this?
I actually like it, tbh. It'd work, imo.
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  #107    
Old April 30th, 2013, 01:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Derozio View Post
I actually like it, tbh. It'd work, imo.
Thing is.. the big main thing has apparently already been voted on without it's consideration so.. is there any chance that it actually would be considered? Or are you just going to follow through with the huge shebang?

A bit disappointed though. Would've thought that it would work, and if it seemingly got too popular (obviously it'd be popular at first but if it kept booming over the next few months) THEN that's when we can upscale it to having it's own section.
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  #108    
Old April 30th, 2013, 02:31 PM
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I don't know, Kura. Projects like these are taken care of by the hstaff. I've no idea about the progress of MIC or if the two thread idea has even been considered. But let us hope that it has. =(
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  #109    
Old April 30th, 2013, 02:50 PM
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Wait really? Regular mods have no say in that? I know they predominantly look after their section but I would've thought they had more voice than that.. especially since this suggestion was opened up to everyone on PC and not just left to staff. Why was it opened to us when all that really mattered was the opinion of yes/no of 12 people anyhow?

Well either way, I'm just hoping that good will come from it, whatever ends up happening. Thanks for listening, Derozio (and others, too.)
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  #110    
Old April 30th, 2013, 11:39 PM
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Naah, we have as much of a say as other non-staff members when it comes to these things. :p But it would be wrong to say that the opinion of all the moderators and other members isn't considered while making a decision. They do look at the general consensus, I'm sure. So our opinion does matter, you know?

And no problemo, Kura! This is probably the first time I've ever participated in a discussion that's related to the community as a whole. I actually felt like I was, you know, somewhat useful. Because all I've been doing since I was promoted was look after my own section and post in the staff threads. The fact that I could contribute, however little, makes me really happy. I should be thanking you guys, instead! So yeah, thanks! <3;
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  #111    
Old May 1st, 2013, 01:26 AM
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^Although I'm still not the biggest on the section, I said yes to a trial because people here in general supported it.

I do agree that in general people shouldn't try to advertise their threads obnoxiously - I don't mind people asking for it in say irc the once, just not going on about it or only going on places to just advertise it. Not something I'd suggest infracting for straight up if it happens too, a reminder would I hope do if it does happen. As for popularity issues, although it will be impossible as said to stop it from happening, it sure is possible to try to limit it to some reasonable amount imo. Or I hope, anyway. We will see!

@ 2 thread idea - I'll point it out in the planning and see what others think. I'm not made up my mind on which I prefer myself... I do think though that 2 threads is a bit harder to keep track of? And double the threads might get messy (say someone reads a question they're interested in hearing the answer - they then have to go and find the answers thread and shift through that to get the answer. Which is at worst a minor annoyance, but nonetheless!). Granted it does
Quote:
Maybe we can also help keep it uncluttered by saying that each person can only ask one question per week so we dont get a flood of possible questions, too.
Sadly this sounds like it would be a bit annoying to keep track off. Maybe better as a suggestion... but then I don't see it being too necessary either (clutter is just going to be hard to avoid).
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  #112    
Old May 1st, 2013, 04:20 AM
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Originally Posted by bobandbill View Post
^Although I'm still not the biggest on the section, I said yes to a trial because people here in general supported it.

I do agree that in general people shouldn't try to advertise their threads obnoxiously - I don't mind people asking for it in say irc the once, just not going on about it or only going on places to just advertise it. Not something I'd suggest infracting for straight up if it happens too, a reminder would I hope do if it does happen. As for popularity issues, although it will be impossible as said to stop it from happening, it sure is possible to try to limit it to some reasonable amount imo. Or I hope, anyway. We will see!

@ 2 thread idea - I'll point it out in the planning and see what others think. I'm not made up my mind on which I prefer myself... I do think though that 2 threads is a bit harder to keep track of? And double the threads might get messy (say someone reads a question they're interested in hearing the answer - they then have to go and find the answers thread and shift through that to get the answer. Which is at worst a minor annoyance, but nonetheless!). Granted it does
Sadly this sounds like it would be a bit annoying to keep track off. Maybe better as a suggestion... but then I don't see it being too necessary either (clutter is just going to be hard to avoid).
Well, I'd say a whole section takes a lot to keep track of too. If we're getting a new mod anyway for this whole new section, why don't we instead just mod someone else in Other Trivia to help look after this and help keep track of it? 2 threads is easier to look after than.. hundreds.

If it is too much to handle, 2 threads being closed is MUCH easier to do than shutting down a whole section.


I am also a bit peeved that this was apparently agreed upon on popular vote.. but I see no poll in this thread.. so why didn't you let us decide instead of just assuming "people in general supported it" when I look back and I just see discussion about concerns rather than "I see no problem with it." So did you vote based on us, or based on your own opinion? The first is unfair to us, and the second is unfair to you IMO.. but this is a whole other matter.
Felt it was already for it to begin with, so it seems like this thread is here just to appease us. That's how I feel, anyway.
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Last edited by Kura; May 1st, 2013 at 04:46 AM.
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  #113    
Old May 1st, 2013, 05:09 AM
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Well, I'd say a whole section takes a lot to keep track of too. If we're getting a new mod anyway for this whole new section, why don't we instead just mod someone else in Other Trivia to help look after this and help keep track of it? 2 threads is easier to look after than.. hundreds.

If it is too much to handle, 2 threads being closed is MUCH easier to do than shutting down a whole section.
I don't follow - shutting down a whole section...? If by that you mean thread moderation or somesuch I don't think it's very hard. Also we're not yet fully decided on the location/etc (by that I mean we'll fully decide after the trial, and it's something to worry about after we see how it actually goes in the first place), so worrying about if we get a new mod or not is something to follow after said trial.
Quote:
I am also a bit peeved that this was apparently agreed upon on popular vote.. but I see no poll in this thread.. so why didn't you let us decide instead of just assuming "people in general supported it" when I look back and I just see discussion about concerns rather than "I see no problem with it." So did you vote based on us, or based on your own opinion? The first is unfair to us, and the second is unfair to you IMO.. but this is a whole other matter.
Felt it was already for it to begin with, so it seems like this thread is here just to appease us. That's how I feel, anyway.
Nick wanted to bring it up here first, so he can explain why he did that. =p I don't see why there's too much to be peeved about though... I'm not massively opposed against the idea (I would be if there hadn't been some way to keep some handle on some threads dominating the forum too much - as a way was suggested that got my approval. And then me being on the fence isn't reason for me to deny it a trial run - ie a way to better gauge how it would go rather than going 'well maybe ___ would happen'. In other words - I didn't just vote myself because other people liked it, don't worry about that. (I took a while as I gave it a fair bit of thought actually...)

And I saw all those posts about concerns - I can't say I don't see the majority of people who posted though weren't at least interested in the idea however. I wouldn't say that we just assumed it - I followed the thread throughout for one. *motions to earlier posts within it which included me posting my own concerns*
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  #114    
Old May 1st, 2013, 05:47 AM
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Fair enough, Marcin! I think I am just overthinking it all and making myself frustrated lol..

I am adamant that my idea can and will work. Why don't.. while you guys are beta testing this in the supporter lounge.. I will take it upon myself to create the threads in Other Trivia and look over them. After a couple weeks/ a month, it can be closed.

I just want to see this happen properly, and I see too many problems doing it the other way so let me show you a solution. You guys wanted members to host events more right? Let me do it.
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Last edited by Kura; May 1st, 2013 at 06:04 AM.
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  #115    
Old May 1st, 2013, 07:43 AM
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I'm okay with you trying that after we have the trial period.
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  #116    
Old May 1st, 2013, 10:25 AM
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Originally Posted by Patchisou Yutohru View Post
I'm okay with you trying that after we have the trial period.
Sure, but just curious as to why after and not during? Two trails at once and that way both mods and supporters can have a taste of what it's like, and see what they prefer. My proposed idea is a weekly-changing thing so unless you will hold up posting the thing after the trail for a month, it'd be pretty unfair to pit it against my idea.

Technically there is nothing against the rules for me posting it right now in Other Trivia, and could give it a go now, but I'm also trying to be considerate of what you want too and so we have a fair matchup here.
I think it's unfair to me to tell me to do it after it becomes popular because individuals can then get a spotlight.. and obviously don't want that spotlight taken away.

If you can give me a good reason why I should do it after instead of at the same time, I'll be more than considerate of it.. but right now I'm a bit skeptical on how this has all played out to your hands, and I really don't want to be humored by being pushed back.


Edit: Basically it is like you're telling me "sure go ahead with your idea" AFTER you get feedback from supporters and other mods telling you to go ahead with your own idea. How is that even fair.

I am proposing.. do both trials at once, make a poll in the supporter section asking supporters and mods which one they prefer before releasing it to the public. Yes in a way it is unfair that regular members don't get to vote (I won't even get to vote either) but hopefully the supporters will be a good representation of the public.

Tell me that is not fair.
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  #117    
Old May 1st, 2013, 10:48 AM
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I'm just concerned that if we have them going on at the same time, one will be overlooked.
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  #118    
Old May 1st, 2013, 11:02 AM
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Yes, mine might be overlooked by supporters, but not necessarily if you make an announcement about it in the Supporter Section. Not sure how long both will run, but at least it'll give something to the regular members while they wait for the big thing, (if it goes through.. though I am sure it will.)

Otherwise you will have to hold off at least a month from posting the section so that what I have won't be overlooked either.

I don't want this to become about personal agendas.. so how were you going to propose it should go? I've already said how I think it should be handled, but I want to hear what you have in mind.


Edit: Also if my idea is successful regardless, it COULD always be kept for those people who don't want a thread to themselves if we go through with your idea, too, because they don't want questions that are TOO personal thrown at them. Or if people see general questions asked in the thread that they feel like sharing. It could be sticked in the AMA section if it came to that, so both running at the same time could possibly also work.
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  #119    
Old May 1st, 2013, 11:08 AM
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Another solution instead of a whole subsection would be something like the picture thread had: One thread for questions, another thread for answers. This would be put in other trivia to prevent people from spamming the first thread with too many questions over and over again in new posts. Hear me out here.
There are 2 threads, the question thread, and the answer thread. The first thread is sorta like the poll of the week. People contribute questions throughout, and at the end of every week, all of those questions get bolded/ added/ replaced onto the first posts of both threads (or maybe only the answer thread; it's up to the mod.)
Then in the second thread, people sorta do what they do in OVP threads, where they copy/paste those questions they want to answer that week, in a post, and answer them below in bolded text. You know.. like
Example:
what is your favourite food?
I really love pasta!
Forgive me if there's more to this idea, but from what I re-call, this paragraph is generally the gist of it.

My opinion (and no offense here, Kura) is that this is really inconsistent. I feel that creating a whole new subsection would be more ideal. .___. I do understand that the goal you're (seemingly?) trying to go for is more organization but...how would two separate threads really accomplish that? It seems that you haven't really explained that part in great detail (at least, versus creating a different section entirely).

See, I didn't really like the whole format the PYP had, which is why I believe it was an excellent idea that it was merged: why not just combine them, that way people can comment and yet post pictures all in one thread? Is it really that hard to search for a specific reply, or a specific question (given how PC's search function works, I'd imagine it wouldn't be too difficult)? I'm not trying to come off as rude or anything, but I just do not see what two separate threads would accomplish here.

Making a new section would make organization /so much easier/. The only "cons" (so to speak) in creating the new section is...selecting a new moderator? In which, even that, I'd imagine wouldn't even be too difficult. oo; When you're creating an entirely new section, with a batch of AMAs(especially with how often they pop up), each member would have their own AMA thread, and they would get asked the standard questions and they would reply afterwards. I really don't see what's particularly wrong in this system, and you haven't really pointed out what's necessarily wrong with creating a whole entire subforum either (unless I somehow skipped over that part).

u___u lmao don't take my post as rude or anything but these are just flaws that I find with your idea. I hope this post helps, anyway.
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  #120    
Old May 1st, 2013, 11:17 AM
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Originally Posted by Twilight Sky View Post
Forgive me if there's more to this idea, but from what I re-call, this paragraph is generally the gist of it.

My opinion (and no offense here, Kura) is that this is really inconsistent. I feel that creating a whole new subsection would be more ideal. .___. I do understand that the goal you're (seemingly?) trying to go for is more organization but...how would two separate threads really accomplish that? It seems that you haven't really explained that part in great detail (at least, versus creating a different section entirely).

See, I didn't really like the whole format the PYP had, which is why I believe it was an excellent idea that it was merged: why not just combine them, that way people can comment and yet post pictures all in one thread? Is it really that hard to search for a specific reply, or a specific question (given how PC's search function works, I'd imagine it wouldn't be too difficult)? I'm not trying to come off as rude or anything, but I just do not see what two separate threads would accomplish here.

Making a new section would make organization /so much easier/. The only "cons" (so to speak) in creating the new section is...selecting a new moderator? In which, even that, I'd imagine wouldn't even be too difficult. oo; When you're creating an entirely new section, with a batch of AMAs(especially with how often they pop up), each member would have their own AMA thread, and they would get asked the standard questions and they would reply afterwards. I really don't see what's particularly wrong in this system, and you haven't really pointed out what's necessarily wrong with creating a whole entire subforum either (unless I somehow skipped over that part).

u___u lmao don't take my post as rude or anything but these are just flaws that I find with your idea. I hope this post helps, anyway.
Not rude at all.. but if I recall, the PYP thread was split up originally because it was getting too many posts back then.. and then it died down. You had to sift through tons of comments just to see the pictures and it was difficult.

Two threads help with organization, as you said. I personally see more cons in the new section.. as in.. why is it even there? That's what the about me + vming is for.. popularity things.. people asking uneasy questions, people trolling in threads, people asking random stuff just to bump postcount..
but heck, I'm trying for a compromise instead of shooting the idea down directly.

As I said, no harm in giving my idea a shot since it can be easily closed in OT, and we also don't have to worry about postcount-hungry people. If you're worried about management, I said I would be willing to take over it since I am adamant in seeing it succeed.

It could be a flop, like you say, there are always gonna be concerns about stuff.. but you never know if you don't try especially something like this that doesn't require loads of planning and huge amounts of rule-making like a whole new section would.

I'd hope you could see nothing wrong with giving both a beta test like I am proposing.

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Old May 1st, 2013, 11:24 AM
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Two threads help with organization, as you said. I personally see more cons in the new section.. as in.. why is it even there? That's what the about me + vming is for.. popularity things.. people asking uneasy questions, people trolling in threads, people asking random stuff just to bump postcount..
but heck, I'm trying for a compromise instead of shooting the idea down directly.
Not that there's an issue with giving your idea a shot or anything like that, but I thought I'd just mention that people attempting to boost postcount/trolling/whatever is something that's going to happen in both ends honestly, and I feel that would fall under the "spamming" argument that people brought up a lot in this thread (if I'm correct). Meaning that, if it happens, just report it to staff/h-staff and they'll take care of it. It's procedural in that case. o.o
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Old May 1st, 2013, 11:40 AM
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Originally Posted by Twilight Sky View Post
Not that there's an issue with giving your idea a shot or anything like that, but I thought I'd just mention that people attempting to boost postcount/trolling/whatever is something that's going to happen in both ends honestly, and I feel that would fall under the "spamming" argument that people brought up a lot in this thread (if I'm correct). Meaning that, if it happens, just report it to staff/h-staff and they'll take care of it. It's procedural in that case. o.o
Yeah that is a fair point, I just thought it would be MUCH easier to manage in one thread rather than across a whole board.
And if postcount was turned off in an AMA section then I dont think we'd have to worry about spamming all too much. It's ALL too easy to just go around and ask "What's your favourite colour?" in 40 different threads just to bump postcount.

I am getting too technical now but.. I honestly think both should be given a chance.
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Old May 1st, 2013, 11:44 AM
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Honestly I think that it should be for the best if supporters/mods could test both of them and give their pros/cons then we'll be settled. Then HStaff would decide according to supporters/mods and their own experiences. No harm in this at all imo.
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Old May 4th, 2013, 11:29 AM
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The forum is up in beta.

Anyone who has access to the Supporter HQ (meaning if you only have Style forum access, you can view it as well as those with VIP forum access) has access to the forum.

After the forum beta period, we'll give Kura the go ahead to make her threads to see how that goes.
We expect the forum beta period will only be about a month long.
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Old May 4th, 2013, 12:16 PM
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^I approve this message.

Incredibly happy this is actually taking place, everyone should pat themselves on the back. Especially you Nick!
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