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  #1    
Old May 13th, 2013 (12:51 AM). Edited May 30th, 2013 by Pokedra.
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UU Tier List Thread
Alright let's see if this gets anywhere, it comes down to you people to post a bit and share your opinions. Don't be shy and keep posting, perhaps we can get out own little list out.

Basically we grade Pokemon into 'tiers', think Ambipom is coolest thing since sliced bread? Or do you think Porygon-2 sucks? Post here to state your opinion.

Yes this idea was Smogon's originally, no we are not trying to be Smogon. This is a little test if you will...of the community's interest.

Tiers
Quote:
Top Tier - These are some of the best Pokemon in the tier, they can sweep/wall most of the metagame with little to no support and have mostly superficial flaws. Usually versatile and unpredictable at times as well.
High Tier - These are very solid Pokemon, they can sweep/wall a big portion of the metagame but do have a few noteworthy flaws that hold them back or require team support to truly shine. Basically top tier but just don't quite make the cut.
Mid Tier - These are decent Pokemon, they cannot sweep/wall a good portion of the metagame unless played with proper team support. They have noteworthy flaws but do have a offensive/defensive niche that still makes them worthwhile.
Low Tier - Pokemon that have offensive/defensive niches that allow them to perform a role but require heavy team support and usually carry crippling flaws.
Ambipom Tier - Truly garbage Pokemon. The worst of the worst(think Dusclops).
List (no particular order).
Top Tier
- Zapdos
- Raikou
- Togekiss
- Flygon
- MienShao

High Tier
- Heracross
- Roserade
- Yanmega
- Cresseila
-
-
-
-
-

Mid Tier
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-

Low Tier
- Ambipom
-
-

Ambipom Tier
- Dusclops

Current Pokemon up for debate

Note you can bring up something else up for discussion.

Example of a Discussion for this thread/Voting post
Quote:
Poster A
Heracross for Top tier.
Provides reasoning why it's good.

Poster B
Disagree, High Tier.
Provides reasoning why it's flawed/needs support to properly work.

Etc.etc.
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  #2    
Old May 14th, 2013 (09:51 AM). Edited May 14th, 2013 by Dark Azelf.
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Lol Ambipom tier. Honestly though, Dusclops is pretty decent, just outclassed by Cofa. Low tier imo.

Also yeah Ambipom is meh, its best vs offense with free hits on tech fake out, i dont think it deserves that low despite it sucking lol. Id say low tier too.

Regardless i feel Heracross is overated and overhyped. Its easy to wall and stop and i dont think it deserves to be #1 in usage by a long shot. Hitmontop, Cofa, Crobat, Gligar, Nidoqueen etc are basically on every team and essentially giving Chadelure a free switch in is really not intelligent. Even stuff like Qwilfish lol. :/ Moxie set is utter garbage unless your opponent sucks and has no resists...lol. High tier at most imo, its best set is the SDer and CBer with guts which no one uses...soo.

Also ill bring up Raikou, Togekiss, Zapdos, Meinshao and Yanmega for top tier unless i get any disagreements.

Specs tinted lense Yanmega bascially 2hko's the whole tier bar a few niche counters like P2, Lax and Crobat even 4x resists like Chandelure which is honestly ridiculous and has a great speed for the tier too. Really all you need is a good spinner to support it, its that scary.

Togekiss is just bs hax and insanely bulky. It can also support the team exceedingly well with Heal Bell and Wish and walls stuff like Shaymin totally.

Zapdos and Raikou hit stupidly hard and even things like Umbreon and Snorlax struggle taking repeated hits from them.

Meinshao is just awesome, hits really hard, resists SR and regenerator lets it live a retardedly long time. Also being one of the tiers top scouts, wall breakers or revenge killers and actually beats resists with HP ice unlike Heracross, it struggles with ghosts however.
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  #3    
Old May 14th, 2013 (10:05 AM).
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Heracross deserves High Tier at best. The ever-present Scarf set is a decent late-game cleaner, but it's walled by so much stuff that pretty much everyone runs (Nidoqueen being the biggest one) that it doesn't function anywhere near as well as it used to. The sets DA brought up that are actually its strongest and by far most devastating sets, but no one runs them for the most part. It's just not that threatening anymore, and most teams have at least one or two checks for it because it's so common.

Lol @ Dusclops being Ambipom tier (because it totally is)
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Old May 15th, 2013 (01:12 AM).
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jake♫ View Post
Heracross deserves High Tier at best. The ever-present Scarf set is a decent late-game cleaner, but it's walled by so much stuff that pretty much everyone runs (Nidoqueen being the biggest one) that it doesn't function anywhere near as well as it used to. The sets DA brought up that are actually its strongest and by far most devastating sets, but no one runs them for the most part. It's just not that threatening anymore, and most teams have at least one or two checks for it because it's so common.

Lol @ Dusclops being Ambipom tier (because it totally is)
Good points. Vote taken.

Thoughts on Flygon?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark Azelf View Post
Lol Ambipom tier. Honestly though, Dusclops is pretty decent, just outclassed by Cofa. Low tier imo.

Also yeah Ambipom is meh, its best vs offense with free hits on tech fake out, i dont think it deserves that low despite it sucking lol. Id say low tier too.

Regardless i feel Heracross is overated and overhyped. Its easy to wall and stop and i dont think it deserves to be #1 in usage by a long shot. Hitmontop, Cofa, Crobat, Gligar, Nidoqueen etc are basically on every team and essentially giving Chadelure a free switch in is really not intelligent. Even stuff like Qwilfish lol. :/ Moxie set is utter garbage unless your opponent sucks and has no resists...lol. High tier at most imo, its best set is the SDer and CBer with guts which no one uses...soo.

Also ill bring up Raikou, Togekiss, Zapdos, Meinshao and Yanmega for top tier unless i get any disagreements.

Specs tinted lense Yanmega bascially 2hko's the whole tier bar a few niche counters like P2, Lax and Crobat even 4x resists like Chandelure which is honestly ridiculous and has a great speed for the tier too. Really all you need is a good spinner to support it, its that scary.

Togekiss is just bs hax and insanely bulky. It can also support the team exceedingly well with Heal Bell and Wish and walls stuff like Shaymin totally.

Zapdos and Raikou hit stupidly hard and even things like Umbreon and Snorlax struggle taking repeated hits from them.

Meinshao is just awesome, hits really hard, resists SR and regenerator lets it live a retardedly long time. Also being one of the tiers top scouts, wall breakers or revenge killers and actually beats resists with HP ice unlike Heracross, it struggles with ghosts however.
And so we have a disagreement here.

Dusclops is not that great and deserves to be that low in all honesty, in a metagame run by entry hazards, it's weak to all of them and it's a wall. Not only that, it lacks reliable recovery which because limits it's walling potential, worst of all it kills any momentum your team has. It has zero offensive presence and things that don't fear a burn can setup on it, it also doesn't help it can't take advantage of Leftovers like most walls. I mean yeah it can take a hit well but the entry hazard/repeated hits will wear it down quickly and Taunt basically ends any use it has.

Ambipom should not that low. Honestly it can be played well and be meh rather then garbage. Simply spamming LO Fake Out is not the way to go though, it's best used to pick off weakened Pokemon. U-Turn/Return should be it's main moves otherwise, it's got such a bad rap because people think spamming Fake Out = win!.

Agreed Heracross should be top tier but every good team can handle it so it rarely succeeds. CBCross is an awesome status absorber and wallbreaker though.

Agreed with all your top-tier Pokemon except Yanmega. The best Pokemon in a tier should not require any support whatsoever to succeed and all the Pokemon you listed except Yanmega can be thrown into a random team with some synergy and have success. Yanmega needs a spinner to be used, with SR up it's basically deadweight as it will struggle to get even one KO before going down (plenty of Pokemon can survive one of his hits and KO in return). But I digress, when SR is down Tinted Specs Yanmega is amazing. Going to say High Tier.

And yeah Scarf MienShao is so good it's not funny, Reckless over Regenerator and you basically have one of the best clean-up sweepers once paired with a Pursuiter. Outspeed the whole tier almost and spam 152 power STAB HJK. Basically anything that doesn't resist it gets neutered.
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  #5    
Old May 15th, 2013 (09:18 AM). Edited May 15th, 2013 by Dark Azelf.
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I disagree, Specs Tinted Lense Bug Buzz OHKO's so many things its ridiculous from Yanmega. Even some 4x resists get destroyed by it, its probably the single best wall breaker in the entier tier. Only Snorlax, P2 and Crobat are the only things that dont lose to Specs Bug Buzz on the switch in. You simply cannot use 2x resists vs this Pokemon. That is HUGE, making it semi impossible to check. For example, Zapdos and Empoleon sometimes are 2hko'd even with no SR up on their max/max sp.def sets which is insane.

Also, like you said with Meinshao (who is high tier), needs a Pursuiter to not be dead weight vs ghosts, Yanmega needs a spinner. So i dont get the difference really and i mean its not as if Foresight top and toise dont exist so yeah lol.

Flygon would be high or top tier. CB Flygon wrecks stuff and steels are kinda scarce and scouting is great when you dont overuse U-Turn. On the other hand people just waste it as a weak little outclassed scarfer that never does damage so...going to say top tier.

EDIT:

Also Roserade for high tier too ? Probably the best utility pokemon and it can also run some really nasty sp.attacking sets (potentially being able to 2HKO Snorlax with Leaf Storm with SR damage). Sleep Powder is also ever annoying with the mechanics this gen.
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  #6    
Old May 15th, 2013 (10:54 PM). Edited May 15th, 2013 by Pokedra.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark Azelf View Post
I disagree, Specs Tinted Lense Bug Buzz OHKO's so many things its ridiculous from Yanmega. Even some 4x resists get destroyed by it, its probably the single best wall breaker in the entier tier. Only Snorlax, P2 and Crobat are the only things that dont lose to Specs Bug Buzz on the switch in. You simply cannot use 2x resists vs this Pokemon. That is HUGE, making it semi impossible to check. For example, Zapdos and Empoleon sometimes are 2hko'd even with no SR up on their max/max sp.def sets which is insane.

Also, like you said with Meinshao (who is high tier), needs a Pursuiter to not be dead weight vs ghosts, Yanmega needs a spinner. So i dont get the difference really and i mean its not as if Foresight top and toise dont exist so yeah lol.

Flygon would be high or top tier. CB Flygon wrecks stuff and steels are kinda scarce and scouting is great when you dont overuse U-Turn. On the other hand people just waste it as a weak little outclassed scarfer that never does damage so...going to say top tier.

EDIT:

Also Roserade for high tier too ? Probably the best utility pokemon and it can also run some really nasty sp.attacking sets (potentially being able to 2HKO Snorlax with Leaf Storm with SR damage). Sleep Powder is also ever annoying with the mechanics this gen.
I agree without SR Yanmega would be a top tier without a doubt but the prevalence of SR ensures you need to run a spinner to run Yanmega at it's best and that in my eye separates a Pokemon from being great from one being 'good'. Add Registeel to the list too of Pokemon that can handle Yanmega, Specs bug Buzz fails to 4HKO with Lefties I believe and Registeel can TWave it and proceed to SToss it to death or leave it crippled for something else to pick off. Agreed with how deadly it is but simply being so weak to SR, there are a tonne of things that outspeed and easily KO it or can use priority limit Yanmega's use in my opinion. It's good but it needs to support to be great.

Mienshao is different, no good player spams HJK when a Ghost is still around. Ghost types can be taken out, Chandulure for example can only switch in so many times and repeated hits can easily destroy their Ghost-type. If they attempt to save that Pokemon for MienShao, then it only makes predicting easier for you. MienShao appreciates a Pursuiter, it does not require a Pursuiter to be at it's best. Your opponent may be reluctant to send out their Ghost in fear of getting destroyed by MienShao but sooner or later you can force them to use it, also MienShao can still scout with U-Turn so it's not dead weight, Yanmega basically needs SR off the field to work. Mienshao deserves top tier imo, LO Scout set and CS set are just too good.

Top and Toise are not garrbage, they're actually good but to run them on an offensive team kills momentum in my opinion. I mean Honchkrow + MienShao could be quite the beastly offensive core, Top + Yanmega...eh not so much. How about we wait for another opinion before grading Yanmega and Mienshao?

Agreed with Flygon, Scarf is pretty 'meh' but Band is very good in a tier with such limited Steel types. Victini + Flygon is simply amazing. Definitely think Flygon can be top. Roserade too, Specs Leaf Storm is so damn powerful, it did about ~80% to my 252/212 Umberon. Yeah and Spikes support and whatnot, only problem is base 90 speed and pathetic physical durability.

Your thoughts on Kingdra for top tier? I mean this thing did get a suspect test and whatnot, it's UU's Mence Jr. Your opponent has no idea what to do when you first send it in. Is it DD, Specs or RD? Send Slowbro in predicting DD set and you might eat a Specs Draco Meteor (high chance to OHKO with SR iirc), send Flygon to revenge kill only to find out it's RD. Speaking of which RD is amazing, LO Hydro Pump does about 60% to Snorlax so usually Surf + Hydro Pump + SR will take it out. Empoleon takes like 55% from Hydro Pump in the rain, barring misses or heavily invested SpD Empoleon. Specs is solid but not top tier, neither is DD due to Flygon and Mienshao running around but RD Kingdra is possibly the most destructive Pokemon in the tier imo. Most of the best UU offensive players reuse this thing on their teams.
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Old May 15th, 2013 (11:43 PM).
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Just gonna run through all the pokemon on the list so far.

Zapdos



Top Tier
Zapdos really has a lot of potential for varied sets from bulky sets that make use of his great typing and access to Roost, to more threatening attacking sets that utilize his 125 base SpA. He's nothing to scoff at and his moveset of Thunderbolt / Heat Wave / Hidden Power [Grass]/[Ice] really make him quite threatening offensively because no much can honestly switch in on that and just take it. He's too versatile and too good at all of his roles to be anything lower than top tier.

Raikou



Top Tier
While he certainly has his checks and counters (such as Snorlax and Flygon), he's going to harm your team no matter what. The SubCM set is just terrifying to go up against because it's so easy to get boosts in and start mauling teams with and even some of his checks are scared of him after he gets a +1. He's too scary not to place in Top Tier because of how threatening he is no matter what you carry on your team.

Togekiss



Top Tier
Bulky hax mon with roost. That is all.

Flygon


I've never seen Flygon in my battles. So I won't say anything. He seems like a good pokemon for the tier considering he can Outrage and there's basically no steels other than Bronzong.

Heracross



High Tier
He's too easy to stop. The nidos can take anything he throws at them except Earthquake (which has been added instead of Pursuit or Stone Edge on some sets recently to deal with them). Same goes for Hitmontop and Qwil thanks to their typing and Intimidate. Not to mention most people are running stupid ass Moxie on Heracross meaning he's the easiest thing to status in the world once you know he's not running Guts. He's too easy to deal with considering the current state of the meta. Not to mention Chandelure destroys him if he locks himself into not Stone Edge if he's scarfed. He's not awful though. Like you guys have already said. CB Guts is great and so is SD Guts. He can still hit like a truck to things that I didn't mention, the only problem is there are too many pokemon currently that stop him. I personally don't get why he's #1 in usage right now.

Roserade



High Tier
She's effective at what she does. Setting up spikes, absorbing status with Rest / Natural Cure, hitting pretty hard with Leaf Storm on that 125 SpA. She's pretty good but at the same time her movepool is so shallow offensively, her offensive sets don't have too much merit because a lot of things can wall it pretty good. However, she's definitely great at setting up spikes thanks to her bulk and reliable recovery.

Ambipom



Ambipom Tier
I've never fought an Ambipom that did anything for its team except waste a slot for a Pokemon. I just don't see the appeal. You guys think he has merit, but I do not. He literally just seems like a pokemon you throw on a team because you can't think of a 6th pokemon that works and you're thinking "hey, Tech boosted Fake Out could be nice for some harass!" I just don't get it. This is coming from my experience facing them though.

Dusclops



No opinion on him. I've only fought one and I shut it down with Taunt, entry hazards, and burning it. It didn't do much for the opponent's team except waste some of my PP that didn't matter. But it was one time so I can't say anything about Dusclops.

Mienshao



No opinion. I've never fought one...lol. Sounds deadly though the way you describe him.

Yanmega



High Tier
While I agree with Elf that Yanmega is very scary and hard to deal with, Stealth Rocks can really **** up his day. A little too easily if you ask me. I've personally never had a problem with him because of this, but maybe I'm just facing bad people. I do see him as being insanely threatening with quality rapid spin support, but if the spinner goes down, Yanmega is sure to follow.
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Old May 17th, 2013 (01:31 AM). Edited May 17th, 2013 by Pokedra.
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Nice post, Aero.

Agree with most of your comments, as for Ambipom. It's the way it's played rather then the Pokemon itself that makes it pure trash. A well-played Ambipom is very average but it's not the worst. It has a minor niche so to speak.

Been toying around with a Specs Anti-Lead Yanmega which has been pretty nifty, still pathetic SpD and the 4x weakness to SR is still far too crippling for me to label it a top tier.
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Old May 20th, 2013 (01:46 AM).
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Kingdra



Top Tier
My opinion on Kingdra is pretty weird. I see him as potentially a very strong pokemon, but I've never seen him played entirely right. His only good physical set is Sub+DD if you ask me because he's so susceptible to being ****ed over by burn or paralysis and lum berry only goes so far if you're not running Sub. His other physical sets are too reliant on the Rain Dance setup turn which is just asking to paralyzed by something like Qwilfish who will not only paralyze you, but also lower you attack with Intimidate. I do think his Rain Dance special set is quite powerful though, and his Specs set is pretty scary too if you're not running something like Snorlax.

Apart from that, I do think he needs proper support, such as a status absorber or a strong spinner in order to function properly. Or something to setup Rain Dance such as Prankster Tornadus. That's why I place him in High Tier. He's a strong and threatening pokemon but he requires support to be effective.
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Old May 20th, 2013 (02:06 AM).
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If you want to see him played right then take a look at some of the best UU offensive players like kokoloko

Snorlax is no match for the RD set, it takes around ~72% just switching in with SR up. I mean misses and stuff but no Umberon/Snorlax are checks at best. Most Empoleon are 2HKO'ed by Hydro Pump. It doesn't require Tornadus as support, Kingdra is bulky enough and the plethora of Fire-types allow easy RD setup.

Not saying I disagree with what you're saying but status is not as big an issue as you're making it out to be. Firstly when first bringing Kingdra in, people have no idea what set it is and have to act cautiously. When used to your advantage this could be the turn you setup, also bear in mind it's best used as a clean-up sweeper. When the things that could status it are weak enough to be taken out by LO Rain-boosted HP (which OHKO's like 95% of the tier anyway) and it's so fast it outspeeds Scarf MienShao and Flygon.

I firmly believe him to be top tier, the suspect test was a strong indicator of how good it can be when played right.
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Old May 24th, 2013 (02:52 PM).
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Im not sure about Kingdra. I mean its really really weak. Its kind of in the same boat as Scrafty in that what it cant hit super effectively/isnt really frail, basically crushes it. Flygon/Meinshao revenge kills its non RD sets, Empoleon basically hard walls it and it struggles with bulky Grass types like Shaymin and and waters like Milotic. Even retarded things like Cress beat it (lol).

Every time ive used it/seen it/faced it well....its been really....underwhelming. :s
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Old May 24th, 2013 (04:10 PM).
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It 2HKO'es the two strongest UU walls in the game after SR under one turn of setup, sure that's not great since they can hit back but that's probably one of the most powerful moves in UU. Empoleon is also 2HKO'ed after SR, if you just spam Hydro Pump in the rain, nothing in UU resists it, nothing. Surf under rain also pretty much OHKO's 80% of the metagame as well.

LO Hydro Pump Modest 252 Kingdra deals about 55-60% to Standard SpD Snorlax.
Specs Modest 252 Roserade hits for about ~70%, that's insane.

DD is meh, RD is the only way to go.

Cresseila is actually fairly good though, no one expects it and it is pretty bulky. Moonlight is useful in UU with only Hail and lolmanual weather. I'd say Mid Tier.
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Old May 29th, 2013 (11:57 PM).
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I'd give Kingra high tier personally. Under Rain it really does pose a significant threat, but so much can hit it back otherwise, and if it has no set up it really does pretty much no damage to anything. Set-up isn't hard to get with it though, so that bumps it up from mid tier to high tier for me I guess.

Cresselia is either mid tier or high tier. She can tank a hit very well (especially with the Fighting types everywhere), and throw around status in TWave, which is highly crippling in UU (especially with all the dumb Scarf Moxie Heracross running around). Besides, she can take weak SE hits (like Mienshao's U-Turn), Moonlight it off, and just keep going. She's still hit hard by a lot though (Heracrosses Megahorn sucks), so I guess mid tier. With proper teammates she flourishes (CressKiss core is hot).
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Old May 30th, 2013 (01:56 AM). Edited May 30th, 2013 by Pokedra.
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Well I guess I'm going to have to make a case here.

Firstly, under rain nothing can take a hit from it, absolutely nothing. Unless you want to run Ferroseed with a lot of SpD invested then nothing is surviving this things rain-boosted Hydro Pump. Snorlax is easily 2HKO'ed by it and Umberon, the two most specially defensive Pokemon in the entire tier. With SR down, even ridiculously bulky Pokemon like Togekiss can be taken out in one hit. Not only that but Water/Dragon is simply beautiful in UU, it hits almost everything neutrally.

Also everyone seems to be ignoring the fact that Kingdra under rain cannot be revenge killed. Raikou who everyone believes is Top Tier (of which I agree) is easily revenged by Scarf MienShao and Flygon. Kingdra outruns both of these and easily KO's both.

Also weak before setup is a misconception. Kingdra without rain hits just as hard (if not harder) then unboosted LO CM Raikou. Even unboosted hits can cleanly KO less bulky Pokes. I mean no one here calls Raikou weak lol. After set-up not one Pokemon in the Top tier category can really match Kingdra's nukes. I'm not saying this out of bias, many top players swear by Kingdra. It just needs to be played right.

I mean if you consider it to be too weak then we probably need to move Togekiss and Raikou down, because +1 TBolt and +2 Air Slash still hit weaker then rain-boosted Hydro Pumps and still have worse coverage to boot. Granted the accuracy is an issue but eh. Also going to add CBFlygon needs proper support to reliably beat Steels (lolFirePunch), Kingdra has no such issue and it has better defenses/resists to boot.

tl;dr Being weak is honestly not an argument because it's not only wrong, it also applies to all the current top tier Pokemon.

Agree with Cresseila Jake, honestly it's a monster.

Anyways I'm going to bring up Meleotta for discussion because it is so damn underratted. I think it can be easily high tier. SubCM is simply amazing, 128 SpD/SpAtk means she's basically a UU-Latias but slower. Psyshock lets her destroy Snorlax and she can setup on so many Pokemon due to that montrous SpD. 100/78/128 is very bulky and she backs it up with even greater power. High Tier for sure, I run it on a stall team and with Spikes/SR/TSpikes it can literally sweep teams.
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