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Pokémon Gaming Central For topics that aren't necessarily restricted to one game, Pokémon Gaming Central ranges from comparing and contrasting the differences in the gaming generations to discussing the gaming franchise as a whole.



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  #1    
Old May 23rd, 2013 (12:33 PM). Edited May 23rd, 2013 by Nuke.
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This is mainly contemplating battle mechanics, but any other game mechanics which you personally feel make no sense feel free to vent.

Now as we all know, Pokemon is far from flawless in executing all its concepts and on various occasions logic is thrown to the side in favour of a nice balanced battle system.

My reason for starting this thread is that after playing a lot of Pokemon lately my long standing issue with physical attacks affecting ghosts has surfaced again. Frankly it makes no sense, a ghost is a ghost, the concept of a ghost is that we go through it if we attempt to make contact. Therefore it makes no logical sense that physical moves can affect ghosts. While this is attempted to be addressed through Normal & Fighting types being unable to affect ghosts, this occasionally brings up a further problem in that special moves can't affect them e.g. Hyper Beam. Now obviously it's necessary for balance, but sometimes I really just wish Iron Tail didn't affect ghosts.

I suspect most responses will also include type (dis)advantages which are applied with no logical reason as to why they should be good or bad against the other type (e.g. Bug super effective against Psychic). Feel free to include game mechanics that are external from battles as well though.
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Old May 23rd, 2013 (03:33 PM).
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I remember seeing a thread about this somewhere. The line of reasoning is that Ghosts should be affected if a physical move is imbued with a power type, i.e. Fire punch, Iron tail. You said it yourself, balancing, Ghost types would be massively OP if they were immune to most types.

As for a mechanic I don't like, infinite bag space being added I guess, not having to plan what you'll bring on an expedition because you can carry an infinitely long scroll list of items is rather simplifying things.
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Old May 23rd, 2013 (04:14 PM).
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I don't have any complaints about battling mechanics atm, but I do have a problem with a feature that was only around for gen I of all things. But when receiving a gift Pokemon and having a full party, it gets sent to the PC in gen I. This was not the case in subsequent games, making generation I being ahead of it's successors in this regard. It's a bit weird, though. They fixed so many bad things, like the broken Slash, Wrap/Bind, etc, but they took away a good efficient feature. Rather weird. I hope it makes a comeback.
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Old May 23rd, 2013 (04:17 PM).
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Hidden Power's typing based on a Pokemon's IVs, which only makes breeding more tedious than it's suppose to be. Why can't we change HP's typing from a special area, and if the idea's too broken, you could have it cost shards to change a Pokemon's Hidden Power.
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Old May 23rd, 2013 (06:16 PM).
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I don't agree with not being able to speed up while you're surfing. You get three speeds on land (walk, sprint, bike) but you just get one speed in the water. Also, I hope they fix the default wailmer/lapras looking sprite for when you surf. It would be great if we saw our birds flying us and our water types swimming us across.
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Old May 23rd, 2013 (07:47 PM).
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Forcing you to use HM's, while some of those HM's are useless will always make me question Pokemon games. For me it will always be weird that Ghost type can't affect Normal type.
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Old May 23rd, 2013 (08:19 PM).
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The turn-based system...why can't they just dodge like in the show...?
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Old May 23rd, 2013 (08:33 PM).
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The fact that you are physically unable to run until your mom decides to give you a pair of magical speedy shoes.
Also that pretty much every stranger you meet is just willing to talk to you. Though I guess you would kinda need that in a game.
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Old May 23rd, 2013 (11:16 PM).
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The fact that people just don't care when we enter their houses. Heck, I come back home after a long journey and MOM is like, "........." until we speak to her and prove that we are not nothingness.

And the cries of the pokemon are SUPER unrealistic.
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Old May 23rd, 2013 (11:46 PM).
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Stealth Rock! Nothing has irked me more than introducing an entry hazard that can possibly take out half of your Pokemon's HP just when they switch in! Spikes and Toxic Spikes were A-OK with me, but come on man. Way to nerf multiple types in the metagame! Some of my favorite Pokemon got rendered almost unusable.....
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Old May 24th, 2013 (03:26 AM).
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Dragon being weak to Ice doesn't really make sense. I think it would be logical to only be weak to itself, as it can't hit any other types super-effectively. Although you could say that about Normal (which hits no type super-effectively). I don't disagree with it especially, it just confuses me. Unlike Steel being super-effective on Rock which, when I discovered it, made as much sense as Fire > Grass and Electric > Water.
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Old May 24th, 2013 (04:16 AM).
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inb4 EVs and IVs

Wurmple's evolution methods.
It's based on an invisible stat that can only be read by npcs, and unless you breed it (idk why you would though), this mechanic eliminates any chance of planning.


Quote originally posted by Amore:
Dragon being weak to Ice doesn't really make sense. I think it would be logical to only be weak to itself, as it can't hit any other types super-effectively.
Isn't it because, since they're reptiles (excluding Altaria), Dragons are cold blooded?
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Old May 24th, 2013 (05:06 AM).
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Which NPCs can read Wurmple's hidden value? I always just thought it was a lottery.
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  #14    
Old May 26th, 2013 (05:55 PM). Edited May 27th, 2013 by Alli.
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You have a higher chance of getting the "Can't Escape!" text when the foe has higher speed stat than your Pokemon. WTH? If i was fleeing my Pokemon would be back in the Pokeball already.

Also you can't choose whether or not to battle wild Pokemon. YOu would look like an idiot if you encounter a random Zigzagoon, send out your Pokemon, then let your Pokemon back in the ball and run away...

Also,
"Wild Poochyena appeared"
"Go Rayquaza!"
"Wild Poochyena's intimidate cuts Rayquaza's attack!"

........
Rayquaza is a huge dragon... Poochyena is like a little dog.
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Old May 26th, 2013 (10:35 PM).
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ANY Game Corner/Casino mechanic. The slots in every game prior to HG/SS were so rigged it was easier just to waste money on buying the coins instead of playing, and the Voltorb Flip's mechanic was often based more on luck than logic, the coins often came in far too slowly, AND it removed the ability to buy more coins. Even worse, some of the best TMs in the game were only found in this scam of a mini game. Just let us buy them as TMs in the Department Store, Game Freak!

And let's not forget the Safari Zone/Great Marsh mechanic. This area often has some of the the rarest Pokémon in the game, but you can't send out your Pokémon to weaken the opposing Pokémon, one of the most BASIC STRATEGIES you first learn in catching Pokémon. You also can't use your own Pokéballs, instead being forced to use Safari Balls, which have the capture rate of a GREAT BALL. Keep in mind you can find things such as CHANSEY, GIBLE, and LARVITAR, which have some of the lowest known catch rates among regular Pokémon. Oh, and did I mention that Safari Zone Pokémon can FLEE at the drop of a hat? And that you are limited to 20 Safari Balls, AND shinies can appear here, of all places?

I'm really glad these mechanics are gone as of Gen 5, and I hope it stays that way (or they COULD get replaced with more tolerable substitutes...)
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Old May 26th, 2013 (10:51 PM).
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Quote originally posted by Nuke:
I suspect most responses will also include type (dis)advantages which are applied with no logical reason as to why they should be good or bad against the other type (e.g. Bug super effective against Psychic).
Psychic represents the mind, bugs are a common fear of the mind hence why Bug types own Psychics...
One that has already been mentioned; A certain Pokemon's ability should be neutralized in certain situations, like Intimidate, when the Pokemon is up against a much more fierce foe. To correct this, maybe they could make intimidate only work on Pokemon that are lower or equal leveled? ...
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Old May 26th, 2013 (11:42 PM).
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Quote originally posted by Trainer_Altair:
Psychic represents the mind, bugs are a common fear of the mind hence why Bug types own Psychics...
One that has already been mentioned; A certain Pokemon's ability should be neutralized in certain situations, like Intimidate, when the Pokemon is up against a much more fierce foe. To correct this, maybe they could make intimidate only work on Pokemon that are lower or equal leveled? ...
Definitely agree with you on Intimidate; there's no way that a 30th level Luxray is going to intimidate an opponent twice his level. Granted, Pokémon don't go around with their stats tattooed on their bodies; but they can probably "size up" an opponent's relative strength.

As far as Bug being strong vs. Psychic, I also agree; a species type that's widely feared is going to disrupt the concentration and control needed to use Psychic moves. Steel is probably strong vs. Psychic for the opposite reason: a popular belief that metal shields against psychic detection and control (think of the "tinfoil hat" cliché).
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Old May 27th, 2013 (01:28 AM).
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I quite like that explanation actually, one of many matchups solved.
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  #19    
Old May 27th, 2013 (02:24 AM). Edited May 27th, 2013 by Spinosaurus.
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While we're on that subject, the reason why Bug is strong against Dark is actually a reference to Kamen Riders, a hugely popular sentai series in Japan about sentais that are insect based (think how some some Power Rangers have dinosaurs, or wild animals, or samurais, etc) and sentais basically rid the world of evil (Dark) forces. Heck, we already have a Bug type Pokemon that is based on super sentais. (Lydian)


Anyway, IVs are stupid. I get EVs (even though, I also think it's stupid), but IVs are just pointless and I can't help but feel Game Freak added it in just for the sake of having an unnecessary complicated mechanic. Who the hell came up with it? Also, random encounters. Get with the times, Pokemon.

Quote:
And let's not forget the Safari Zone/Great Marsh mechanic. This area often has some of the the rarest Pokémon in the game, but you can't send out your Pokémon to weaken the opposing Pokémon, one of the most BASIC STRATEGIES you first learn in catching Pokémon. You also can't use your own Pokéballs, instead being forced to use Safari Balls, which have the capture rate of a GREAT BALL. Keep in mind you can find things such as CHANSEY, GIBLE, and LARVITAR, which have some of the lowest known catch rates among regular Pokémon. Oh, and did I mention that Safari Zone Pokémon can FLEE at the drop of a hat? And that you are limited to 20 Safari Balls, AND shinies can appear here, of all places?
But that's the reason Safari Zone is so fun. It's just so tense and exciting. B/W(2) getting rid of it is one of the (many) reasons why I despise that game. You're no fun.

And also, about the casino thing, it's called gambling for a reason. And I personally love gambling. Getting a Porygon from the casino in Leaf Green was a great achievement for me and my friends.
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Old May 27th, 2013 (02:53 AM).
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I'm thinking that the type chart wasn't that fluent in it's coding. For example, why isn't poison strong against water? I mean, it contaminates the water and makes it corrosive acid, after all. Then, why isn't water good against Steel? It rusts apart all metals, doesn't it? Lastly, why isn't Electric good against Steel? I mean, all metals do conduct electricity, thus magnifying the damage. Oh yes, it isn't strictly towards the Type Chart, I mean, I never understood the complexities of the Game Stat Mechanics. The stat SPEED isn't given any importance, nor is the fact that a Level 1 Wurmple can hit a Level 100 Rayquaza (if given the chance) with a tackle or a String Shot fairly easily and the Rayquaza cannot interfere with the attack itself, only hope that the attack misses a fair calculation. If you have played Pokémon Conquest, they give a higher importance to Speed, as in, depending on the two Pokémon's Speed Values, the accuracy of the move differs.

Lastly, the move Tail Whip sounds like a total misnomer. I mean, a tail whip sounds to me like a strong tail being used like a whip. What gives? It LOWERS DEFENSE. That's just crazy.
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Old May 27th, 2013 (09:52 AM). Edited May 27th, 2013 by Miau.
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While it makes sense since this is the game and that's what the battles are about, the turn based system isn't at all realistic, and I think it wouldn't be that difficut to change. What I mean is, to continue on ★Hoenn★'s idea, why are Wurmple and Rayquaza taking turns in battle? I think the Speed stat could've been used brilliantly if say, for one move Wurmple does, Rayquaza does 10 moves. Of course, the Wurmple/Rayquaza example is already going too far, since the battle would already be terribly unbalanced with the current system. But imagine some sort of timeline; the battle starts at moment 0, and depending on their speed, each Pokemon gets to make a move at a certain moment, depending on their Speed. Ninjask would take a turn every 1 unit, because he is very fast, while Weavile and Swellow would move every 2 units, Starmie every 3 units, Charizard every 5 units and so on.

Then, HMs are pretty weird, if you ask me. I think Wailmer or Samurott would be perfectly capable of carrying their trainer across the water, Charizard can very well fly their trainer around, and smash or push heavy boulders. So why do I need to use a CD, or whatever that is, to teach them something that should already be in their nature? How to you use HMs anyway?

Quote originally posted by Spinosaurus:
Anyway, IVs are stupid. I get EVs (even though, I also think it's stupid), but IVs are just pointless and I can't help but feel Game Freak added it in just for the sake of having an unnecessary complicated mechanic. Who the hell came up with it?
I disagree. IVs, aka Individual Values, are exactly that, their meant to give some diversity and make the game more realistic. You have the base stats, which are common to all Pokemon in a species, but it's the IVs that set them apart. Think about it, it's just like in real life, all cheetahs have impressive speed, but some are just faster than others. Just like that, all Ninjask are known to be very fast Pokemon, but if you race two of them, it's obvious one will be faster than the other.
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Old May 27th, 2013 (10:17 AM). Edited May 27th, 2013 by Spinosaurus.
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Applying realism to game design in a game that isn't realistic to begin with is never a good idea (see: Halo 4). EVs are more than enough to differentiate two of the same Pokemon, and EVs are actually manageable because it's all about training against particular Pokemon. IVs, though, are set right from the beginning. They have no proper purpose (Aside from Hidden Powers, which someone in this very thread complained about, and rightfully so.), and just gimp you along the way because there's a high chance of having a Pokemon with low IVs. Competitive Pokemon all have 31 IVs in their all stats anyway via hacking/RNG abuse because nobody in their right mind would bother breeding for a Pokemon with perfect or amazing IV set. They're pointless.

It's also why I don't get "why isn't [type] stronger/weaker than [type] because [logic]". Why ruin the already balanced type chart just for the sake of realism? I know some types are way too strong while some are pretty weak, but the suggestions that are logical realistically doesn't help at all. The only thing that I could think of is having Poison be effective against Normal, but in the end nerfing Normal type is stupid. Most match ups are fine anyway and make sense, even if they're just small references ala Fighting vs Flying or the mentioned Dark vs Bug. Little details like that are great, anyway.
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Old May 27th, 2013 (11:57 AM).
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I wan to find the person who gives the Pokemon their weight and height and teach them which order numbers go in. A Gyardos is heavier than a Rayquaza. Oh, and how a Charizard or Deoxys look really big in Anime but are really the size of an average human being.
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  #24    
Old May 27th, 2013 (12:08 PM).
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I can see where you're coming from, but as someone who doesn't care about competitive battling, and is more interested in the RP side of Pokemon, having IVs makes a lot of difference. But like I said, I get your POV as well, since, just like you said, competitive battlers will have flawless Pokemon anyway via other methods. You'd be surprised though, that there are some people who will breed for (almost) flawless Pokemon, and are bothered by hacking and RNG abuse, so I guess they would care about the IV system as well, since it provides a way to work on their Pokemon even more.
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Old May 27th, 2013 (02:24 PM).
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Yeah...the majority of competitive battlers either go to extreme lengths (RNG or a lot of patience) to get flawless pokémon, or use Pokémon Online / shoddybattle / whatever on their PCs :P
I would have to come out in support of the IV system - it's like how people are individual. I'm (according to Soccer Manager) the exact same height and weight as Cristiano Ronaldo. Yet no matter how much I trained to improve my speed, got more muscle tone etc. I'd never have that natural gift with a football, would I?
And also, no offence to the people who said it, but I think having a time-based form of battling would be stupid, as it'd take too long [As it was, everyone complained at how much slower DP (And to a lesser extent Pt) were than Gen III]. And as it is speed means your Rayquaza gets to move before the lv.1 Wurmple (and if Wurmple actually gets a chance to land an attack, there's something wrong with your dragon mate :P).
Also, for the point about Water not being super-effective on Steel...pokémon live outside, so presumably Steel-types are stainless / galvanised?
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