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Fourth Generation Diamond, Pearl, and Platinum kicked off the fourth generation of Pokémon. Two years later, fans of the Johto region were treated to a remastered adventure in HeartGold & SoulSilver. Discuss the games, explore the features, share your experiences, and help other players out!



View Poll Results: Exactly what the title says.
Only if it had Dragon Claw 3 15.79%
Only if it had Outrage 5 26.32%
In general, yes 4 21.05%
No, Dragon Rush is good enough for it 7 36.84%
Voters: 19. You may not vote on this poll

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  #1    
Old August 15th, 2013 (05:55 AM).
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As we all know, Cynthia's Garchomp is one of the most feared Pokémon in the history of the franchise, with its monstrous stats and powerful attacks. However, one of its primary STAB moves, Dragon Rush, has an underwhelming 75 accuracy. So, my question is, do you think it would be harder or easier if it had, say, Dragon Claw or Outrage instead of Dragon Rush? Dragon Claw is weaker but doesn't miss, so Flying-types would be more prone, making it harder to stall it out. And Outrage, while more powerful, would lock her into the attack and then confuse her, so it'd be easier for you to throw a Steel-type in its face when it uses it.

But that's just what I see it as. What do you think? Does having Dragon Rush make it harder? Discuss.
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Old August 15th, 2013 (09:20 AM).
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I haven't played any of the Sinnoh games for a while, but I remember in Platinum that Dragon Rush hit every single effing time.
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Old August 15th, 2013 (01:43 PM).
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Cynthia's whole team would have wasted me if it weren't for all the Full Restores and Revives I had.

But if her Garchomp (or indeed any of her team) had more powerful moves than they already have, I'd probably never have beaten her.
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1) A trio of ROM hacks [gen1, gen2, gen3] that, aside from the generation, are pretty much identical: You start in Kanto and post-elite four you travel through Johto as it would have been "3 years ago".
2) A demake of Heart Gold / Soul Silver. Possibly using Fire Red as a base.
3) An official Pokémon game, following the standard "gotta catch 'em all" format, but aimed more at the older players.
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Old August 15th, 2013 (04:49 PM).
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I've never had that Garchomp miss that Dragon Rush. I swear, it's some AI hax job that they have.
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Old August 15th, 2013 (04:57 PM).
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Dragon claw would've wrecked me (or drangon rush) if I didn't OHKO it with glaceon ice beam.
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Old August 15th, 2013 (05:25 PM).
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Haha, not really. The thing about Dragon Rush is it still hits 3 times out of 4, and there's a good chance on No.4 you're not going to KO it, but it'll KO you on the next turn (And probably outpace you too).

The only way they could make it significantly harder would be to swap Gastrodon for a Hippowdon and have that lead. There's a reason it's banned to Ubers in Gen IV competitive play - and Sand Stream used alongside Garchomp is a significant part of it.
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Old August 15th, 2013 (11:18 PM).
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I say Dragon Rush is pretty much OK with it because at least it has one weakness in Attacks other wise how could any one beat it
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Old August 16th, 2013 (03:40 AM).
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Her Garchomp has some crazy accuracy with that Dragon Rush and it hit hard too. In all honesty though, I wouldn't know if she'd be harder if it didn't have Dragon Rush. What I do know is that she was damn hard to beat! :'D
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Old August 16th, 2013 (05:20 AM).
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Haha, yeah, the Dragon Rush always hit for her, never for me. However, I gotta admit her Garchomp is fast. Mine was two levels above hers and she still got to pwn my Garchomp with a Dragon Rush. Luckily I had a sure-fire pwn with me, Palkia.

Well I was about to choose Dragon Rush is good enough, but I took Outrage as an answer because, well, considering the locking and the Steel stalls, she still has a Full Restore to boost back Garchomp's health and Dig back at ya. And an Ice type would have to be Weavile or someone as fast to beat that steep Outrage and the humongous power.

Considering she still has Milotic and Togekiss, that's saying something. Her only gap to exploit must have been Gastrodon, and even Gastrodon is gone in Platinum. In Pearl and Diamond, she's fairly easy (Dialga/Palkia) but not with Giratina, I suppose. Especially because of Spiritomb. But Platinum... I'm glad she hasn't had Outrage or Dragon Claw.

---EDIT---


Quote originally posted by Amore:
Haha, not really. The thing about Dragon Rush is it still hits 3 times out of 4, and there's a good chance on No.4 you're not going to KO it, but it'll KO you on the next turn (And probably outpace you too).

The only way they could make it significantly harder would be to swap Gastrodon for a Hippowdon and have that lead. There's a reason it's banned to Ubers in Gen IV competitive play - and Sand Stream used alongside Garchomp is a significant part of it.
OH GOD NO NOT HIPPOWDON BERTHA WAS TOUGH ENOUGH NOOOOOOOOOO
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Old August 16th, 2013 (10:12 AM). Edited August 16th, 2013 by Lucky1Yena.
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I think I found why Cynthia is so hard to defeat.

Quote originally posted by Bulbapedia:
  • In the games, Cynthia's Pokémon have perfect IVs, with all being 31.
Not sure what it means exactly but it is probably important.
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What would I like to see in the future? A few things, actually.
1) A trio of ROM hacks [gen1, gen2, gen3] that, aside from the generation, are pretty much identical: You start in Kanto and post-elite four you travel through Johto as it would have been "3 years ago".
2) A demake of Heart Gold / Soul Silver. Possibly using Fire Red as a base.
3) An official Pokémon game, following the standard "gotta catch 'em all" format, but aimed more at the older players.
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Old August 16th, 2013 (03:42 PM).
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Quote originally posted by Lucky1Yena:
Not sure what it means exactly but it is probably important.
Each Pokemon has a hidden value called IVs, also known as Indiviual Values, that determine the stat of a Pokemon, from 0-31. A pokemon with 0 IV on Attack would mean lower Attack stat, and vice versa. 31 is the maximum IV for one stat, and Cynthia's Pokemon all have 31 IVs, thus being "perfect."
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Old August 16th, 2013 (04:06 PM).
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Outrage is a lot more powerful than Dragon Rush, and it's also more accurate. Cynthia's Garchomp was hard enough to beat already, but if it had Outrage, it would've been even harder. It would have wrecked through half of my team within just three turns, probably. Haha.
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Old August 16th, 2013 (10:33 PM).
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While I was facing Cynthia I found it pretty easy to beat her Garchomp. At first after playing her team a couple of teams I had developed a perfect team to take her own. My order was basically made up by type advantage, meaning that I used a dragon type pokemon to kill the garchomp without having to use my icetype as back up, since ice is super eeffectivIn the end it all turned out the same outcome from me beating Cynthia and he annoying garchomp.
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Old August 17th, 2013 (06:47 AM).
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Quote originally posted by Seattle:
Each Pokemon has a hidden value called IVs, also known as Indiviual Values, that determine the stat of a Pokemon, from 0-31. A pokemon with 0 IV on Attack would mean lower Attack stat, and vice versa. 31 is the maximum IV for one stat, and Cynthia's Pokemon all have 31 IVs, thus being "perfect."
I know my part in this is getting a little off-topic now, but is there any way of determining what each IV is for each of your own Pokémon? Or if you can select which ones your team has?
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What would I like to see in the future? A few things, actually.
1) A trio of ROM hacks [gen1, gen2, gen3] that, aside from the generation, are pretty much identical: You start in Kanto and post-elite four you travel through Johto as it would have been "3 years ago".
2) A demake of Heart Gold / Soul Silver. Possibly using Fire Red as a base.
3) An official Pokémon game, following the standard "gotta catch 'em all" format, but aimed more at the older players.
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Old August 19th, 2013 (02:03 PM).
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Quote originally posted by Lucky1Yena:
I know my part in this is getting a little off-topic now, but is there any way of determining what each IV is for each of your own Pokémon? Or if you can select which ones your team has?
Not easily without hacking.

You can determine your pokemon's IV's if you fill in a calculator with it's current stats, levels and EV's, but even those are hard to know without either hacking or prior ev training. There are methods to somwhat work out the highest IV for each pokemon based on it's charestics (likes to run) for example.

The only way you have a slight chance of choosing is through controlled and closely examinined breeding.
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Old August 24th, 2013 (10:35 PM).
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I remember for a fact that, when I faced off against her Garchomp for my first times during story mode, Dragon Rush never missed. Between the 3 times I faced off against her, she used it at least 5 times, although I never counted the exact number

In fact, I was surprised to learn it had 75% accuracy later on.
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