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Old August 15th, 2013 (06:27 AM).
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Since we have the weather element abilities around. Do you think its possible that there is a Trick Room ability. Perhaps calling it Wonder Room or something like that. How much would it change your game style if there is?
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Old August 15th, 2013 (06:52 AM).
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Quote originally posted by AdrianD:
Since we have the weather element abilities around. Do you think its possible that there is a Trick Room ability. Perhaps calling it Wonder Room or something like that. How much would it change your game style if there is?
If there is one id rather it be a hidden/ rare ability.
Well it would be kinda hard to determine how this will affect my strategy , ill have to know how many pokemon have the ability , how strong is it , is their a way to reverse the ability , and is their anyway of stopping it
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Old August 15th, 2013 (06:55 AM).
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Quote originally posted by MrGriszell:
If there is one id rather it be a hidden/ rare ability.
Well it would be kinda hard to determine how this will affect my strategy , ill have to know how many pokemon have the ability , how strong is it , is their a way to reverse the ability , and is their anyway of stopping it
It would likely need the Trick Room move to counter it
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Old August 15th, 2013 (08:03 AM).
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That'd be really nice. If they ever introduce an ability like this, then I could easily see Trick Room teams becoming a trend. xD It would give slow Pokémon like Bronzong, Slowking, Exeggutor, Claydol, and Aggron a chance to actually shine. These teams could turn out to be a little overpowered, though. Maybe even more than sun, rain, and sandstorm teams.
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Old August 15th, 2013 (09:19 AM).
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I would LOVE it =) But... Trick Room isn't really the same as weather as it only affects speed =)
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Old August 15th, 2013 (12:59 PM).
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As good as the idea sounds, I think this will be on the level with Moody in terms of gamebreaking, maybe even worse.
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Old August 15th, 2013 (01:10 PM).
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Yeah, it sound like it'll break the game...and is sure to ruin speed based teams...
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Old August 15th, 2013 (04:21 PM).
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I could definitely see an ability like this being considered "broken" and banned from competitive play, particularly given how some teams tend to rely on Speed a lot.
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Old August 16th, 2013 (12:50 PM).
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Quote originally posted by AdrianD:
Since we have the weather element abilities around. Do you think its possible that there is a Trick Room ability. Perhaps calling it Wonder Room or something like that. How much would it change your game style if there is?
(Just dumping this here for reference. IIRC...)
Quote:
Trick Room: reverses the Speed order of active Pokemon for 5 turns
Magic Room: nullifies all Pokemon's items during battle for 5 turns
Wonder Room: reverses base Defense and Special Defense stats for 5 turns
I would love for Trick Room to manifest in the form of an Ability, as it serves as a counterpart of sorts to the numerous weather-related moves... I've actually been wishing for such an Ability ever since I heard of it since its introduction in Generation 4. Although, now that I think about it, it does have the potential of being a "broken" Ability, as a lot of powerful Pokemon are balanced by their slow Speed stats (then again, you have a few Pokemon that are powerful and fast, such as Aerodactyl and Salamence...usually, they have brittle defensive stats to compensate, but sometimes that hardly factors in battle)

As for balance, maybe the Trick Room Ability could still be limited to somewhere between 5-8 (either a set value between 5-8, or the value is randomly chosen from the range of 5-8 each battle or each time the Pokemon in question is sent out) turns, as opposed to being permanent like other weather-related Abilities such as Drought, Drizzle, Sand Stream, Snow Warning, and Cloud Nine/Air Lock...? Alternatively, the Pokemon given such an Ability could have mediocre offenses and defenses (slow Speed is already a given in order to take full advantage of a Trick Room-based Ability)... I'd also prefer it if such an Ability were given to a legendary Pokemon (either a legendary mascot Pokemon, a Lati@s-esque Pokemon, or a member of a Pokemon trio); although I like the increased usefulness of weather-related Abilities on non-Uber-tiered/non-Legendary Pokemon, I feel like weather-related Abilities are more fitting to Legendaries, as their stories often invoke such weather-related events (i.e., how Groudon and Kyogre exclusively wreaked havoc in Generation 3 with Drought and Drizzle, respectively, before Vulpix/Ninetales and Politoed came along with new Hidden Abilities).

Moreover, I'd like it if there were a Magic Room Ability (sigh...Embargo would've worked great for a "Magic Room Ability" name if the move Embargo didn't already exist...) and Wonder Room Ability, in order to complement a potential Trick Room Ability (just like how sunlight, rain, sandstorm, and hail have respective moves and Abilities). However, I'd prefer it if the Magic Room Ability affected foe Pokemon only and excluded the user's held item (essentially a reversed "Klutz" Ability)...

Consequently, it would make for an interesting/great legendary Pokemon trio, IMO, if Trick Room, Magic Room, and Wonder Room were each bestowed in the form of Abilities upon one member of said trio in a future Pokemon game... This would probably make Magic Room and Wonder Room see increased use (in their Ability variants), as Trick Room seems to be the only move used most often in its move variant form.
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Old August 17th, 2013 (10:35 AM).
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Honestly, I don't ever see this happening and if it did it would be banned ( this is worst then Moody imo).
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Old August 20th, 2013 (04:10 PM).
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it would be cool, but banned from competitive play most likely. Trick room teams are amazing and very hard to beat, but setting them up takes a really good player as the strategy is totally different. Having a Pokemon that could instantly set this up for the entire match would just be too broken imo. Introduce an item that extends the duration of Trick Room and I think that would be sufficient enough.
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Old August 20th, 2013 (05:47 PM).
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I skimmed through this thread, so forgive me if I'm missing anything, but am I the only one who thinks that an ability like this won't be broken?

Sure, a lot of slow 'mons are powerful, but trick room is not impossible to get around. A lot of people don't know this (and heck, I didn't know about this until like, the other day lol), but you can also pack the same Pokemon with an auto-TR ability just to reverse the dimensions back to normal (or just have one Pokemon that knows TR to reverse the dimensions back). Instead of weather wars, you'd have to pack a slot towards dimensional wars. Yeah, I can see the ability becoming powerful, but I don't think it'd be broken necessarily.

Heck, I'd agree with having some sort of item like Heat Rock or Damp Rock that lengthens the period of time that Trick Room lasts. I feel that TR is a rather underrated move, and you can only do so much within those 5 turns that they vanish up pretty quickly (and thus, some 'mons can't even set up properly, due to the limited amount of time), so that could be an option if an auto-TR ability is out of the question.
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Old August 20th, 2013 (06:19 PM).
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Weather inducing abilities aren't as overpowered as possible auto-Trick Room, because weather isn't a game-decider for all Pokemon. Even then Drizzle and Drought are enough to make previously overlooked Politoed and Ninetales to become staple for many teams. Imagine what Trick Room ability could do, it'll be even worse because all Pokemon are affected by Trick Room, all the way from Magikarp to Arceus. Pokemon(s) with said ability would have to be at the sunkern level of weaksauce to have any chance outside Uber.

I could see an item like Damp rock equivalent for all the room moves, but I think that's as far as it goes.
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Old August 20th, 2013 (08:19 PM).
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Quote originally posted by Seattle:
Weather inducing abilities aren't as overpowered as possible auto-Trick Room, because weather isn't a game-decider for all Pokemon. Even then Drizzle and Drought are enough to make previously overlooked Politoed and Ninetales to become staple for many teams. Imagine what Trick Room ability could do, it'll be even worse because all Pokemon are affected by Trick Room, all the way from Magikarp to Arceus. Pokemon(s) with said ability would have to be at the sunkern level of weaksauce to have any chance outside Uber.

I could see an item like Damp rock equivalent for all the room moves, but I think that's as far as it goes.
Neither is Trick Room. While they may be hard to defend and attack against, so are fully equipped weather teams. The only added benefit a Trick Room team gets is speed since it reverses the speed priority of the Pokemon. Priority attacks still move as they are supposed to iirc. This is different from two Weather attacks that add a boost to same type attacks, do percentage damage over time, increase the stats of Pokemon, or effect the healing rate of attacks.

While it can't be negated as far as memory serves, its far from being completely over powered. Weather induced abilities definitely have a better set up than the trick room ability and give more benefits that are harder to counter without carrying a Weather Ability user or wasting an attack slot on a Weather attack to counter.

I've fought my fair share and I've had much harder times dealing with Rain teams than Trick Room teams. Though I had the added bonus of using mixed speeds in my teams usually so I almost always benefited against a Trick Room team.
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Old August 21st, 2013 (04:31 AM).
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I think that a Trick Room ability would be a great idea along with a rock which extends the effect of Trick Room kind of like the Damp Rock.

However, Trick Room as an ability can't be used on something that is too good. Something around the area in terms of ninetales or politoad will be necessary for this. This meaning that Reuniclus shouldn't get it.

It could however be added onto something that is in the middle that could make it work if Game Freak intend on adding the ability to an old Pokemon. Something with a base stat for speed of 60 that is defencive should work in my opinion.
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Old August 21st, 2013 (01:55 PM). Edited August 21st, 2013 by Aeroblast.
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Quote originally posted by XanderO:
Neither is Trick Room. While they may be hard to defend and attack against, so are fully equipped weather teams. The only added benefit a Trick Room team gets is speed since it reverses the speed priority of the Pokemon. Priority attacks still move as they are supposed to iirc. This is different from two Weather attacks that add a boost to same type attacks, do percentage damage over time, increase the stats of Pokemon, or effect the healing rate of attacks.

While it can't be negated as far as memory serves, its far from being completely over powered. Weather induced abilities definitely have a better set up than the trick room ability and give more benefits that are harder to counter without carrying a Weather Ability user or wasting an attack slot on a Weather attack to counter.

I've fought my fair share and I've had much harder times dealing with Rain teams than Trick Room teams. Though I had the added bonus of using mixed speeds in my teams usually so I almost always benefited against a Trick Room team.
I personally can't see a Trick Room pokemon outside Ubers unless its only useful purpose is the ability and nothing else. Speed is an invaluable asset and moving before the opponent does can make or break a match, and many teams that favor speed get crippled instantly (Pokemon who make the best use of priority are usually slower). If your team isn't centered around speed then it probably actually helps you fight against faster pokemon, but on the flip side unless you have a dedicated counter for trick room teams you're screwed. Currently Trick room isn't as broken, because it only lasts for 5 turns maximum, forcing Trick room users to switch often. -7 Priority doesn't help them, either.

It's an interesting concept which makes me think about the metagame, though whether it will break it or not is another matter. At the bare, bare minimum Trick room ability will definitely overcentralize the metagame as much as Stealth Rock does. Whether that's a bad thing or not, it's up to you to decide I guess.
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Old August 21st, 2013 (05:03 PM).
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Quote originally posted by Seattle:
I personally can't see a Trick Room pokemon outside Ubers unless its only useful purpose is the ability and nothing else. Speed is an invaluable asset and moving before the opponent does can make or break a match, and many teams that favor speed get crippled instantly (Pokemon who make the best use of priority are usually slower). If your team isn't centered around speed then it probably actually helps you fight against faster pokemon, but on the flip side unless you have a dedicated counter for trick room teams you're screwed. Currently Trick room isn't as broken, because it only lasts for 5 turns maximum, forcing Trick room users to switch often. -7 Priority doesn't help them, either.

It's an interesting concept which makes me think about the metagame, though whether it will break it or not is another matter. At the bare, bare minimum Trick room ability will definitely overcentralize the metagame as much as Stealth Rock does. Whether that's a bad thing or not, it's up to you to decide I guess.
If it overcentralizes than I definitely think that it's a bad thing. Sure people can argue now that this would be easy to counter or have a similar effect like weather wars, but I just feel that this would change the metagame too drastically. Right now we are in a fast paced metagame where speed(on most teams) will make or break your team. Having the ability to completely swing that in the opposite direction would just be a little broken to me. I mean even if it isn't then teams would almost be required to carry a mon that can counter that, just like you pretty much have to have a SR user and a spinner now. Teams, imo, would become too dependent on having mons for this.
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Old August 21st, 2013 (05:32 PM).
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Quote:
Currently Trick room isn't as broken, because it only lasts for 5 turns maximum
"Isn't as broken".

I'd just like to mention that currently, TR is nowhere near broken. By the time you set up TR and attempt to get anywhere close to a sweep, Trick Room's turn-count would already be half-gone. And all the opponent has to do is stall out the turns (which isn't really difficult), so I wouldn't consider it broken, it's nowhere even near that. I'd actually argue the opposite and say that TR is underwhelming because it's so hard to set up in it without losing crucial turns in the process.

Now, if there were more TR abusers in Gen 6, then I could see your argument proving true as well as others that it could potentially be borderline broken, but as of this point, no. Maybe a lot more powerful (and more usable) if it was given an item that extended its turn-count, though.
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Old August 21st, 2013 (05:40 PM).
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I would only be okay with this if there was a limit to the number of turns this lasts, and if it was heavily limited. Perma-weather abilities are already gamebreaking to the point that the entire OU and ubers tiers revolve around them. Playing around weather is one thing. Playing around the fact that your speed has been destroyed for the entirety of the match is another.

Quote originally posted by Twilight Sky:
"Isn't as broken".

I'd just like to mention that currently, TR is nowhere near broken. By the time you set up TR and attempt to get anywhere close to a sweep, Trick Room's turn-count would already be half-gone. And all the opponent has to do is stall out the turns (which isn't really difficult), so I wouldn't consider it broken, it's nowhere even near that. I'd actually argue the opposite and say that TR is underwhelming because it's so hard to set up in it without losing crucial turns in the process.
In the VGC doubles, Trick Room is the most used strategy, followed by tailwind and weather. The fact that people randomly carry Trick Room just to counter TR is a testament to its strength. But you're completely right, that it's underpowered in singles.
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Old August 21st, 2013 (05:42 PM).
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Quote originally posted by Twilight Sky:
"Isn't as broken".

I'd just like to mention that currently, TR is nowhere near broken. By the time you set up TR and attempt to get anywhere close to a sweep, Trick Room's turn-count would already be half-gone. And all the opponent has to do is stall out the turns (which isn't really difficult), so I wouldn't consider it broken, it's nowhere even near that. I'd actually argue the opposite and say that TR is underwhelming because it's so hard to set up in it without losing crucial turns in the process.

Now, if there were more TR abusers in Gen 6, then I could see your argument proving true as well as others that it could potentially be borderline broken, but as of this point, no. Maybe a lot more powerful (and more usable) if it was given an item that extended its turn-count, though.
I'd agree 100% that is isn't currently broken and is hard as hell to use. However, having a Pokemon that could summon this instantly and have it last the duration of the game really could potentially be broken. If it's just an item, then no. It would last 8 turns instead of 5 which isn't too significant.
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Old August 21st, 2013 (07:38 PM).
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Yeah, an hourglass item to boost Trick Room into 8 turns has been on my wishlist since 4th gen.
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Old August 21st, 2013 (07:52 PM).
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As it is some abilities already seem TOO good like whether abilities and magic guard. I also get the feeling that a pokemon that gets an ability like that would probably compensate largely from some other aspect to attempt and keep it from being too strong.
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Old August 21st, 2013 (07:56 PM).
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Quote originally posted by Tim09:
As it is some abilities already seem TOO good like whether abilities and magic guard. I also get the feeling that a pokemon that gets an ability like that would probably compensate largely from some other aspect to attempt and keep it from being too strong.
Yeah, but remember that if this was an ability, it would affect the entire team and the opponents team, not just the Pokemon carrying the ability.
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Old August 21st, 2013 (08:27 PM).
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Quote originally posted by jellicentfan1:
Yeah, but remember that if this was an ability, it would affect the entire team and the opponents team, not just the Pokemon carrying the ability.

Indeed. It could be weaker than caterpie (195 base stats!!!) but still be potentially OP just cause it's presence sets up a trick room. I don't think OP abilities are the direction they should be taking even if they are interesting though. I'm quite surprised that weather abilities actually happened as hidden abilities for non-legendary pokes.
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Old August 22nd, 2013 (03:27 PM).
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I don't know about a Trick Room ability being broken, but the potential to over-centralise battling is certainly there. It would be "safe" to use the slowest stuff possible, or run something that can counter Trick Room (if such a thing comes into existence). It would completely change the look of competitive battling.

However, is that actually a bad thing? As much as one pokémon / ability / move forcing the game to move around it sounds ludicrous, in reality all this would do is make people more inclined to run slower pokémon. It has potential to centralise in the same way needing to be fast centralises now, and I never really see people complaining about teams needing to either be fast or have priority moves.

I mean, considering Stealth Rock (a move that renders multiple types of pokémon unfavourable to unplayable) is legal, I'm not sure an ability that swaps the direction of speed wars would be too bad.
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