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  #51    
Old September 29th, 2013 (03:29 PM). Edited September 29th, 2013 by facekeyboarding.
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Quote originally posted by PlatinumDude:
Chandelure:

-Fire Blast/Overheat
-Shadow Ball
-Hidden Power (Fighting)
-Trick/Energy Ball
Nature: Modest
EVs: 120 HP/252 SAtk/8 SDef/128 Spe
Item: Choice Specs
Ability: Flash Fire

While Chandelure doesn't appreciate having Stealth Rock on the field, it can switch in to any of Ferrothorn's offensive moves and scare it out with Fire Blast/Overheat or cripple it with Trick.

-Surf
-Wish
-Protect/Shadow Ball
-Ice Beam
Nature: Modest
EVs: 248 HP/252 SAtk/8Spe
Item: Leftovers
Ability: Water Absorb

Vaporeon is a great counter to Chandelure, as it can switch in on almost any move but Energy Ball. Surf provides reliable, high-power damage, wish provides a solid HP fix, Protect gives Vaporeon the gift of being able to wait another turn for its wish to come true/leftovers to kick in. Ice beam is a great counter for any grass types that try to switch in, especially well known grass sweepers like Venasaur or Breloom. This Vaporeon would work well with a substitute set up, as switching into a substitute would greatly assist it in retaining health.
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  #52    
Old September 30th, 2013 (02:50 AM).
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Ferrothorn @Leftovers

Ability: Iron Barbs
Nature: Relaxed
Evs: 252 HP / 48 Def / 208 Spd (note 0 speed Evs)

-Stealth Rock
-Leech Seed
-Power Whip
-Gyro Ball/Thunder Wave

Ferrothorn can take anything that Vaporeon dishes out. Set up Leech Seed to sap away at Vaporeon's massive HP whilst replenishing its own. Set up Stealth Rock for switches. Or hit it hard with a super-effective STAB Power Whip.
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  #53    
Old September 30th, 2013 (04:07 AM).
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Houndoom (F) @ Life Orb
Trait: Flash Fire
EVs: 252 SAtk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Nasty Plot
- Flamethrower
- Dark Pulse
- Hidden Power [Fighting]

252 SpA Life Orb Houndoom Flamethrower vs. 252 HP / 208 SpD Ferrothorn: 530-629 (150.56 - 178.69%) -- guaranteed OHKO

0 Atk Ferrothorn Gyro Ball (150 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Houndoom: 132-156 (45.36 - 53.6%) -- 42.58% chance to 2HKO
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  #54    
Old September 30th, 2013 (05:06 AM).
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Snorlax @Leftovers

Ability: Thick Fat
Nature: Adamant
Evs: 252 Atk / 52 Def / 200 SpD / 4 Spe

- Body Slam/Return
- Pursuit
- Earthquake
- Crunch/Fire Punch

Snorlax can easily switch into Houndoom resisting STAB fire attacks because of Thick Fat and taking minuscule damage from other attacks because of it's huge bulk. It can then OHKO Houndoom with a super-effective Earthquake taking advantage of its poor defences if it doesn't switch out.
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  #55    
Old September 30th, 2013 (05:29 PM).
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Conkeldurr @ Flame Orb
Adamant Nature, Guts
128 HP / 252 Atk / 128 SpD
- Drain Punch
- Mach Punch
- Facade
- Payback

Doesn't care about much of Snorlax's attacks as none of it's super effective and it can just use Drain Punch to hurt Snorlax very badly and heal itself at the same time with Snorlax's huge HP. Getting paralyzed from Body slam isn't a huge issue as Conkeldurr is already very slow and it can use the paralysis to its advantage to get Guts boost, Facade bonus damage, and even better use of Payback (correct me if I'm wrong on the last item in the statement)
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  #56    
Old September 30th, 2013 (06:19 PM).
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Quote originally posted by Perdition Haze:
Latios w/ Choice Scarf
252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid nature
~ Draco Meteor
~ Psyshock
~ Surf
~ Trick

Ludicolo is quite fast under rain due to its Swift Swim ability, but Latios is pretty fast as well. By maximizing its Speed EVs and making it hold a Choice Scarf, Latios will be able to outspeed Ludicolo and land the first move. With Draco Meteor, this Pokémon should be able to knock out an opposing Ludicolo with just one single hit. Draco Meteor does not always have hundred-percent accuracy though, so if you don't want to take the risk, then you may go with Psyshock instead.
252 SpA Latias Draco Meteor vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Ludicolo: 204-240 (67.54 - 79.47%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Latios is 2hko'd by Ludiocolo's Ice Beam and as thus cannot switch in or return the KO.

Quote originally posted by facekeyboarding:

-Surf
-Wish
-Protect/Shadow Ball
-Ice Beam
Nature: Modest
EVs: 248 HP/252 SAtk/8Spe
Item: Leftovers
Ability: Water Absorb

Vaporeon is a great counter to Chandelure, as it can switch in on almost any move but Energy Ball. Surf provides reliable, high-power damage, wish provides a solid HP fix, Protect gives Vaporeon the gift of being able to wait another turn for its wish to come true/leftovers to kick in. Ice beam is a great counter for any grass types that try to switch in, especially well known grass sweepers like Venasaur or Breloom. This Vaporeon would work well with a substitute set up, as switching into a substitute would greatly assist it in retaining health.
The bolded contradicts itself, Energy Ball 2hko's and so does Shadow Ball.


Quote originally posted by Several People in this thread:

Definition of a counter: A Pokemon that can switch into the opposing Pokemon with little or no risk, and proceed to threaten a KO. Basically, a counter is the perfect switch-in to a Pokemon.
That means, if it cant switch in on the entirety of a foe pokemons moveset, live and then return the ko/force a switch its not a counter.


Anyway @ above post.


Cresselia @ Leftovers
252 Hp / 176 Def / 80 Sp.Atk
Bold Nature
- Moonlight
- Reflect
- Thunderwave
- Psychic

Comes in, lives everything, sets up a Reflect to cushion Payback, then heal with Moonlight and smashes Conk with STAB Psychic or drive it out.
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  #57    
Old September 30th, 2013 (07:24 PM).
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Zoroark @ Life Orb
4 HP / 252 Sp.Atk / 252 Speed
Rash Nature
-Sucker Punch
-Nasty Plot
-Dark Pulse
-Taunt

Zoroark, under the disguise of another Pokemon, can trick Cresselia into a Psychic which doesn't effect him. Reflect doesn't stop Dark Pulse from a 2HKO, T-Wave is meh but Zoroark is still fairly speedy and if disguised as a Ground pokemon would not even happen, and Moonlight won't work once he uses Taunt. He can easily set up with Nasty Plot and start tearing holes in the rest of the opponent's team after a few turns of forcing Cresselia to either switch or become set-up bait.

(off topic but did I do this alright? just checking because apparently it's an issue)
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  #58    
Old September 30th, 2013 (08:42 PM).
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Since Zoroark is virtually impossible to directly counter with its illusion ability, I'll just put a set that can counter it without its illusion.

Lucario @ Life Orb
4 HP/252 Atk/252 Spe
Adamant nature
-Close combat
-Ice punch
-ExtremeSpeed
-Swords Dance

Takes 1/4x damage from all of Zoroark's dark type moves and hit back with super effective Close combat.
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  #59    
Old September 30th, 2013 (09:37 PM).
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Chandelure (M) @ Choice Scarf
Trait: Flash Fire
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
- Flamethrower
- Shadow Ball
- Hidden Power [Fighting]
- Energy Ball

252+ SpA Chandelure Flamethrower vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Lucario: 494-584 (175.17 - 207.09%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252+ Atk Life Orb Lucario Ice Punch vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Chandelure: 57-68 (21.75 - 25.95%) -- possible 4HKO
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  #60    
Old October 1st, 2013 (09:02 AM).
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Blissey @ Leftovers
Trait: Natural Cure
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Def / 252 SDef
Calm Nature

- Toxic
- Flamethrower
- Softboiled
- Seismic Toss / Stealth Rock

252+ SpA Chandelure Flamethrower vs. 4 HP / 252+ SpD Blissey in sun: 163-193 (25 - 29.6%) -- possible 4HKO

Then Blissey can just use Toxic and spam Softboiled. She also doesn't really care about Flamethrower burns thanks to Natural Cure.
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  #61    
Old October 1st, 2013 (09:13 AM). Edited October 1st, 2013 by Aeroblast.
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Scrafty @ Life Orb/Lum berry
Jolly Nature, Shed Skin

-Dragon Dance
-Drain Punch/Hi jump kick
-Crunch
-Ice Punch

Scrafty doesn't fear Chansey's Seismic toss and in return dish out huge damage with Drain punch while healing half as much HP which is huge.

252 Atk Life Orb Scrafty Drain Punch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 330-390 (46.87 - 55.39%) -- 74.22% chance to 2HKO with Life Orb
252 Atk Scrafty Hi Jump Kick vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 440-518 (62.5 - 73.57%) -- guaranteed 2HKO with Lum berry

Scrafty's Shed skin means Toxic isn't a huge problem, even more so if it carries Lum berry. Scrafty can get free Dragon dance with correct predictions which will make him even harder to stop.

Edit: Ninja'd -.- But I think this still walls it so I'll edit some calculations.
Edit2: I just finished changing my post to accommodate the above post which he deleted for some mysterious reason -.- I'm still keeping this up because same Scrafty still owns Blissey in the 2 posts above.
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  #62    
Old October 1st, 2013 (09:19 AM).
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Heracross@Choice Band
6 Hp / 252 Atk / 252 Speed
Adamant Nature
Trait: Guts
- Close Combat
- Megahorn
- Stone Edge
- Night Slash

Lives everything whilst resisting both stab moves and returns the KO.
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  #63    
Old October 1st, 2013 (09:38 AM). Edited October 1st, 2013 by Fading Tree.
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Keldeo @C. Scarf/Specs
Modest/Timid, Justified

Hydro Pump
Secret Sword
HP Ghost
Surf
4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Speed

Can take down a +1 Scrafty, and can out speed based on natures. With Scrafy not using Zen Headbutt, Scrafty isn't even a threat to Keldeo, unless he gets a crit.
ninja'd
--------------------------
@Heracross
--------------------------
Ambipom @ Life Orb
Adamant, Technician
- Fake Out
- U-Turn
- Aerial Ace
- Shadow Claw
---------------------------
Possibly one of the less conventional sets, Fakeout, for strong damage, U-turn to switch out incase of a switch it, Aerial Ace for fighting types, and S. Claw to counter the predicted chadelure .... Cofhagarus would be a problem with this set <_<; as it is heavily reliant on technician
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  #64    
Old October 1st, 2013 (11:56 AM).
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Aggron

-Head Smash
-Heavy Slam
-Earthquake
-Aqua Tail/Fire Punch
Nature: Adamant
EVs: 116 HP/252 Atk/140 Spe
Item: Choice Band
Ability: Rock Head

Since Ambipom isn't using Low Sweep or Low Kick, Aggron can come in safely, resisting any move Ambipom throws at it and threaten it out with Head Smash or Heavy Slam.
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  #65    
Old October 1st, 2013 (12:54 PM).
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Quote originally posted by Fading Tree:
Keldeo @C. Scarf/Specs
Modest/Timid, Justified

Hydro Pump
Secret Sword
HP Ghost
Surf
4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Speed

Can take down a +1 Scrafty, and can out speed based on natures. With Scrafy not using Zen Headbutt, Scrafty isn't even a threat to Keldeo, unless he gets a crit.
ninja'd
--------------------------
@Heracross
--------------------------
Ambipom @ Life Orb
Adamant, Technician
- Fake Out
- U-Turn
- Aerial Ace
- Shadow Claw
---------------------------
Possibly one of the less conventional sets, Fakeout, for strong damage, U-turn to switch out incase of a switch it, Aerial Ace for fighting types, and S. Claw to counter the predicted chadelure ....
Cofhagarus would be a problem with this set <_<; as it is heavily reliant on technician
Ambipom as a Heracross COUNTER? Seriously? >____> Good luck switching in, i mean taking 600% from Close Combat isnt that much. ._.

Quote originally posted by PlatinumDude:
Aggron

-Head Smash
-Heavy Slam
-Earthquake
-Aqua Tail/Fire Punch
Nature: Adamant
EVs: 116 HP/252 Atk/140 Spe
Item: Choice Band
Ability: Rock Head

Since Ambipom isn't using Low Sweep or Low Kick, Aggron can come in safely, resisting any move Ambipom throws at it and threaten it out with Head Smash or Heavy Slam.
Poliwrath@Leftovers
Relaxed Nature
252 HP / 216 Def / 40 Sp.Atk
Trait: Water Absorb
- Circle Throw
- Scald
- Rest
- Sleep Talk

Resists Aggrons whole moveset bar Earthquake which 4hko's most of the time. Scald and Circle throw in return waste Aggron.
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  #66    
Old October 1st, 2013 (01:47 PM). Edited October 1st, 2013 by Fading Tree.
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Quote originally posted by Dark Azelf:
Ambipom as a Heracross COUNTER? Seriously? >____> Good luck switching in, i mean taking 600% from Close Combat isnt that much. ._.
revenge kill .. unless it was scarfed.

Rotom @ Leftovers
Levitate
~ Thunderbolt
~ Shadow Ball
~ Will-O-Wisp
~ Pain Split
180 HP / 252 Def / 76 Spe

It can burn the Poliwrath (long as it doesn't have a sub), Thunderbolt it, and pain split off damage.
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  #67    
Old October 1st, 2013 (01:54 PM). Edited October 1st, 2013 by Lazer.
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Drifblim @ Flame Orb
Trait: Flare Boost
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
- Psychic
- Shadow Ball
- Thunderbolt
- Hidden Power [Fighting]
Resists Circle Throws, and it's already burned and has a high enough HP to switch into Scalds. Throw a Thunderbolt at it and that Poliwrath should be done.

Post ninja'd, currently editing.

Krookodile (M) @ Choice Band
Trait: Moxie
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Crunch
- Earthquake
- Stone Edge
- Fire Fang
It's immune Thunderbolt and resistant to Shadow Ball. Crunch should be able to defeat Rotom backed by a Choice Band and possibly some Moxie boosts.
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  #68    
Old October 1st, 2013 (02:18 PM).
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Krookodile is not very ideal since it gets severely crippled by burn, but it's good enough.

Tangrowth @ Leftovers
Regenerator
252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SAtk
Bold Nature
- Giga Drain
- Hidden Power Ice
- Sleep Powder
- Leech Seed
252+ Atk Choice Band Krookodile Fire Fang vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Tangrowth: 136-160 (33.66 - 39.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock
4 SpA Tangrowth Giga Drain vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Krookodile: 236-278 (71.29 - 83.98%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

Fire Fang 3HKOes, but Giga Drain and Leftovers recovery should be enough to prevent that.
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  #69    
Old October 1st, 2013 (03:36 PM).
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Darmanitan @ Life Orb
Sheer force, Adamant Nature
252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe

- Flare Blitz
- Rock Slide
- Superpower
- U-turn

Can take anything Tangrowth throws at it and KO it with STAB flare blitz.
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  #70    
Old October 1st, 2013 (03:50 PM).
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Milotic (F) @ Leftovers
Trait: Marvel Scale
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 Spd
Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
- Scald
- Recover
- Ice Beam
- Dragon Tail
It can take all of Darmanitan's moves and Scald+Recover until Darmanitan faints.
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  #71    
Old October 2nd, 2013 (08:22 AM).
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Rotom-W@Choice Specs
128 HP / 252 S.Atk / 128 Speed
Modest Nature
- Volt Switch
- Hydro Pump
- Hidden Power [Fire]
- Trick

Resists the whole set and can either Volt Switch or Trick it.

Quote:
revenge kill .. unless it was scarfed.
Yeah but this is about countering only. It cant switch in so its not a counter.
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  #72    
Old October 2nd, 2013 (09:28 AM).
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Gastrodon@Leftovers
Storm Drain
252 HP / 84 Def / 172 SpD
Calm Nature
~ Toxic
~ Scald
~ Ice Beam
~ Recover

not necessarily a counter, but it defiantly walls Rotom-W. Voltswitch, and hydro pump are ineffective, even if Gastro is burned it can toxic stall the rotom with recover.
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  #73    
Old October 2nd, 2013 (12:09 PM).
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Tentacruel @ Life Orb
Rain Dish
4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Hydro Pump
- Sludge Bomb
- Ice Beam
- Giga Drain
252 SpA Life Orb Tentacruel Giga Drain vs. 252 HP / 172+ SpD Gastrodon: 276-328 (64.78 - 76.99%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
0 SpA Gastrodon Scald vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Tentacruel: 34-41 (11.25 - 13.57%) -- 9HKO at best

Yessssssss.
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  #74    
Old October 2nd, 2013 (01:26 PM).
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Quote originally posted by Wolflare:

Tentacruel @ Life Orb
Rain Dish
4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Hydro Pump
- Sludge Bomb
- Ice Beam
- Giga Drain
252 SpA Life Orb Tentacruel Giga Drain vs. 252 HP / 172+ SpD Gastrodon: 276-328 (64.78 - 76.99%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
0 SpA Gastrodon Scald vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Tentacruel: 34-41 (11.25 - 13.57%) -- 9HKO at best

Yessssssss.


Regice @ Leftovers
Clear Body
248 HP / 252 SpA / 8 Spe
Modest Nature
- Rest
- Sleep Talk
- Ice Beam
- Thunderbolt
252 SpA Life Orb Tentacruel Hydro Pump vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Regice: 99-118 (27.27 - 32.5%) -- possible 4HKO
252+ SpA Regice Thunderbolt vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Tentacruel: 162-192 (53.82 - 63.78%) -- guaranteed 2HKO


Who ever said Ice was a horrible defensive typing?
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  #75    
Old October 2nd, 2013 (01:50 PM).
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Mamoswine (M) @ Life Orb
Trait: Thick Fat
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Superpower
- Icicle Crash
- Ice Shard
- Earthquake

Mamoswine can take its Ice Beams and resists Thunderbolts. A Superpower should be able to defeat Regice.
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