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  #1    
Old October 17th, 2013, 07:13 PM
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surprised there wasn't any topic about this. might as well start~

So, Windows 8.1. It's out in the wild now. People who have Windows 8 as an OS can upgrade it from the Windows Store, while those in early versions will have to shell out a couple hundred bucks to buy the physical version of the OS the day after the Win8 update comes out. They said there was supposed to be some "fixes" like the famous start button coming back, and improved start table...which imo...not much fancy. lol

http://www.theverge.com/2013/10/17/4...le-to-download

Anyone planning on upgrading just to see these changes? Have you upgraded already? What do you think?

On my end, the upgrade from the windows store failed on me twice. I'll might as well wait to buy the physical copy. lol
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Old October 17th, 2013, 08:41 PM
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I'm waiting for it to download from the Windows Store right now. It's a huge update though, almost 4 GB for me, but hopefully it fixes the problems I'm currently having with my laptop.
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Old October 18th, 2013, 12:32 AM
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I've been running Windows 8.1 for a long, long time, but I was never able to change my language, because every time I try to do that, Control Panel thinks I'm not Online.

I prefer to use Linux on my Surface Pro now, because it's way quicker, and solves all the problems Surface Pro owners have.
My other machines have OS X Mavericks + Windows 7, and I can't Upgrade to Windows 8 or 8.1, until Nintendo will finally support them.
Yes, I can do my job on Windows 8(.1), but their Apps don't run as fluent on them than on Windows 7.
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Old October 18th, 2013, 05:23 AM
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I'll be buying a new PC soon, with WIndows 8.
But by the time I have money it'll propbably have 8.1 instead.
I won't know what's changed, if I'm honest, I've never touched Windows 8.
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  #5    
Old October 18th, 2013, 05:34 AM
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3 changes I've noticed:

1. Start button is back, but it takes you to the start screen where all the programs, folders, etc that you pinned are. Start screen is literally just a full screen start menu. The start button didn't need to come back, it was fine being invisible in the left hand corner not taking up room in the taskbar.

2. To make the computer boot to desktop you have to right click in the taskbar, go into properties, and select the navigations tab, and tick the When I sign in blah blah to desktop

3. To search you know have to do Windows key + S instead of just pressing Windows key and typing what you want to find.

These are the main ones I wanted to note. You can also change the background of the start screen like a desktop wallpaper.
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Old October 18th, 2013, 05:50 AM
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Originally Posted by Meganium90 View Post
On my end, the upgrade from the windows store failed on me twice. I'll might as well wait to buy the physical copy. lol
Try installing all available updates for your current version of Windows, then attempt to update again. Pretty much the only problem I had were the connection timing out - if that's the case, resuming won't lose any progress.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Team Fail View Post
I'm waiting for it to download from the Windows Store right now. It's a huge update though, almost 4 GB for me, but hopefully it fixes the problems I'm currently having with my laptop.
Haha, hope you get lucky!

Quote:
Originally Posted by MKGirlism View Post
I've been running Windows 8.1 for a long, long time, but I was never able to change my language, because every time I try to do that, Control Panel thinks I'm not Online.

I prefer to use Linux on my Surface Pro now, because it's way quicker, and solves all the problems Surface Pro owners have.
My other machines have OS X Mavericks + Windows 7, and I can't Upgrade to Windows 8 or 8.1, until Nintendo will finally support them.
Yes, I can do my job on Windows 8(.1), but their Apps don't run as fluent on them than on Windows 7.
Using Linux on a non-built system is not recommended. You don't know what won't work, and what won't work properly, to boot. It might be workable, but your Surface Pro is designed to be used with Windows, and it has the best compatibility with Windows, for obvious reasons. Even if it looks like it's working fine, there tend to be severe power usage issues that hurt your runtime. It's also unlikely that your Surface Pro will get the same performance in Linux than in Windows due to possibly non-optimal drivers.

Do you use the Nintendo Wi-Fi Adapter for Wi-Fi needs? I'd strongly suggest that you just get a real wireless modem at this point. They tend to be more reliable, can be found for cheap, and works with more devices.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Varion View Post
I'll be buying a new PC soon, with WIndows 8.
But by the time I have money it'll propbably have 8.1 instead.
I won't know what's changed, if I'm honest, I've never touched Windows 8.
Learn to love Windows 8.1. 8.1 finally comes with a tutorial and help for navigating around the new interface, and you can always make it go to the backstage by changing some settings by right-clicking the taskbar and opening its properties. Do the same with your touchpad drivers, if needed, too.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zet View Post
3 changes I've noticed:

1. Start button is back, but it takes you to the start screen where all the programs, folders, etc that you pinned are. Start screen is literally just a full screen start menu. The start button didn't need to come back, it was fine being invisible in the left hand corner not taking up room in the taskbar.

2. To make the computer boot to desktop you have to right click in the taskbar, go into properties, and select the navigations tab, and tick the When I sign in blah blah to desktop

3. To search you know have to do Windows key + S instead of just pressing Windows key and typing what you want to find.

These are the main ones I wanted to note. You can also change the background of the start screen like a desktop wallpaper.
On that note:

1. You can also set the Start Button to always invoke the All Apps view - it's basically All Programs in older Start Menus, except full screen.

2. This small thing changes a lot on how you feel about Windows 8.1, by the way.

3. You can.
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  #7    
Old October 18th, 2013, 06:33 AM
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Originally Posted by ♪Twiggy♪ View Post
Do you use the Nintendo Wi-Fi Adapter for Wi-Fi needs? I'd strongly suggest that you just get a real wireless modem at this point. They tend to be more reliable, can be found for cheap, and works with more devices.
I know why, and it's for other reasons.

I've been using it for the last hour, and it also seems to have fixed some of the issues I've been having lately. I've had issues with Windows Explorer randomly crashing when running applications from Start, and more recently, the tile effects (Like the tile spinning out to the full screen when launching an app) suddenly quit working, but 8.1 fixed all that.
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Old October 18th, 2013, 07:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ♪Twiggy♪ View Post
Using Linux on a non-built system is not recommended. You don't know what won't work, and what won't work properly, to boot.
Lol, no.
I have ages of experience with Linux, I know what I do.
Better, MS-DOS was my first OS, and after that, I was on Debian for many years, and never heard of Windows, until I went to the Secondary School.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ♪Twiggy♪ View Post
It might be workable, but your Surface Pro is designed to be used with Windows, and it has the best compatibility with Windows, for obvious reasons.
Really?
Then explain why my Tablet gets overheated within a few minutes on Windows, while it stays cold on Linux?
Then explain why my Tablet randomly recognises Touch Input on Windows while I don't do anything at all, while Linux only recognises them when I actually Touch the Screen?
Sorry, but this statement is proven to be false, before it was made.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ♪Twiggy♪ View Post
Even if it looks like it's working fine, there tend to be severe power usage issues that hurt your runtime. It's also unlikely that your Surface Pro will get the same performance in Linux than in Windows due to possibly non-optimal drivers.
Everything works without installing those Drivers, actually, and the Battery Life lasts even longer under Linux.
Another statement that's false.

As for these 3 statements, I'd recommend to experiment yourself, before making the statements, because they're just not true.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ♪Twiggy♪ View Post
Do you use the Nintendo Wi-Fi Adapter for Wi-Fi needs? I'd strongly suggest that you just get a real wireless modem at this point. They tend to be more reliable, can be found for cheap, and works with more devices.
I wasn't talking about Nintendo WiFi Adapter, I don't even know how you came up on that.
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  #9    
Old October 18th, 2013, 08:10 AM
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Lol, no.
I have ages of experience with Linux, I know what I do.
Better, MS-DOS was my first OS, and after that, I was on Debian for many years, and never heard of Windows, until I went to the Secondary School.
It's quite unusual for a person of almost the same age as me to never have used Windows 9x even back during its heyday.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MKGirlism View Post
Really?
Then explain why my Tablet gets overheated within a few minutes on Windows, while it stays cold on Linux?
Then explain why my Tablet randomly recognises Touch Input on Windows while I don't do anything at all, while Linux only recognises them when I actually Touch the Screen?
Sorry, but this statement is proven to be false, before it was made.
Somehow, I doubt these statements are also true.

If your tablet is overheating, it means the tablet is doing something behind the scenes, making it do work. Chances are there are at least one application in the background taking up serious processing power.

Ivy Bridge processors usually don't heat up much even in a tablet, Windows environment in my experience - what did you install in Windows? Some background processes can take up unexpected CPU power. Light web browsing shouldn't kick the fans up even in a normal Windows 8 installation, even with some extra background processes, and all Microsoft PCs don't have them out of the box. (Windows services NEVER count.)

Intel Ivy Bridge processors are low-power in their own right, but they DO still require a fan, and if you even think about running anything that needs all the performance it can get, every single device can and will get hot, no matter what underlying operating system. You can't beat the laws of physics, no matter what. (There's a reason why most Intel Core-based processors use active cooling.)

If your Surface Pro is not responding to touch input in Windows, you have bigger problems. Using Linux is a Band-Aid for now - it does not fix the underlying problem. There's been several driver updates that should help a lot with regard to the touch screen's usability since the Surface Pro's initial release, too. Go try them out too. If these doesn't help, refresh/reset Windows. If that still doesn't work, consider getting it serviced - sometimes it really is faulty hardware. (I should have known better.)

Quote:
Originally Posted by MKGirlism View Post
Everything works without installing those Drivers, actually, and the Battery Life lasts even longer under Linux.
Another statement that's false.
Again, my statement is general - I do not know how well the Surface Pro runs Linux.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MKGirlism View Post
As for these 3 statements, I'd recommend to experiment yourself, before making the statements, because they're just not true.
Power management in Linux is generally spotty. Same for hardware compatibility. Some machines work incredibly well with Linux; others, not so much. This is more of a YMMV thing, really, but I do have first-hand experience in Linux not working as well as it should on my laptops. (I blame my laptop.)

Quote:
Originally Posted by MKGirlism View Post
I wasn't talking about Nintendo WiFi Adapter, I don't even know how you came up on that.
Oh, right. When you mentioned "Nintendo" without any context, that's what I first thought of. It wasn't until later that Team Fail linked to your post that made it clearer.

Either way, I'm still poking around Windows 8.1, and it certainly feels much... nicer than Windows 8. I'm very fine with Windows 8, but Windows 8.1? Now that's icing on the cake. I can probably ditch Windows 7, you know.

The only thing I'm going to feel a bit funny about the whole thing is probably the fact that this laptop came with Windows 7 and so I'll be seeing the Windows 7 stickers and COA forever. xD
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  #10    
Old October 18th, 2013, 08:23 AM
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Trust me, if I didn't run Linux on my Tablet already, I wouldn't even start about it, I know what I'm saying/doing.
As for Nintendo, I meant, their Dev Tools.
Most of them work on Windows 8(.1), but not fluent, and if I need help, they only provide me support for Windows XP, Vista, and 7.
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  #11    
Old October 18th, 2013, 09:29 AM
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The "boot up with desktop" is the main reason I want this update. Everytime my parents log on to this computer I have to guide their way to the desktop with a few clicks. I guess...all in all, not much *awesome* changes, methinks. lol

Quote:
Originally Posted by Twiggy
Try installing all available updates for your current version of Windows, then attempt to update again. Pretty much the only problem I had were the connection timing out - if that's the case, resuming won't lose any progress.
I don't have any updates to install on my end. It should be a hardware problem, I presume. I might need to do some extra file organizations or uninstall a few things before I proceed. But the 8.1 upgrade assistant is not out yet...which is really weird.
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  #12    
Old October 18th, 2013, 11:26 AM
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I'm not quite an active user of Windows 8 just yet, but I hope that Windows 8.1 is much better than Windows 8 as advertised. At least you have the option to boot to desktop now and the fact that the start button returned too.
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  #13    
Old October 18th, 2013, 12:05 PM
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Originally Posted by ZachLMedia View Post
I'm not quite an active user of Windows 8 just yet, but I hope that Windows 8.1 is much better than Windows 8 as advertised. At least you have the option to boot to desktop now and the fact that the start button returned too.
I hope they add an actual start menu again though. It'd be confusing for those learning how to use older OS (Like Vista or 7). I am liking the update though. I haven't had an app crash yet, nor have I had explorer crash yet, which I am very happy about.

Edit: Is anyone able to save their themes and close the window without having the background become solid black? I don't know why mine is doing that.
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Old October 18th, 2013, 12:43 PM
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It has Start button... I'm not updating until there's an official way how to remove it.
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Old October 18th, 2013, 02:55 PM
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Originally Posted by ZachLMedia View Post
I'm not quite an active user of Windows 8 just yet, but I hope that Windows 8.1 is much better than Windows 8 as advertised. At least you have the option to boot to desktop now and the fact that the start button returned too.
The start button was in Windows 8. It was just invisible, and I miss it.
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Old October 18th, 2013, 03:15 PM
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I hope they add an actual start menu again though. It'd be confusing for those learning how to use older OS (Like Vista or 7).
Same here, to be honest. It would be a nice move for people like me who still use Windows 7 but want to upgrade to Windows 8.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zet View Post
The start button was in Windows 8. It was just invisible, and I miss it.
Oh I knew that, it's just in the times I have tried Windows 8, I could never really get the cursor to be placed properly for me to get the start menu to show up from the taskbar >:
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Old October 19th, 2013, 09:36 AM
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Originally Posted by ♪Twiggy♪ View Post
It's quite unusual for a person of almost the same age as me to never have used Windows 9x even back during its heyday.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ♪Twiggy♪ View Post



Somehow, I doubt these statements are also true.

If your tablet is overheating, it means the tablet is doing something behind the scenes, making it do work. Chances are there are at least one application in the background taking up serious processing power.

Ivy Bridge processors usually don't heat up much even in a tablet, Windows environment in my experience - what did you install in Windows? Some background processes can take up unexpected CPU power. Light web browsing shouldn't kick the fans up even in a normal Windows 8 installation, even with some extra background processes, and all Microsoft PCs don't have them out of the box. (Windows services NEVER count.)

Intel Ivy Bridge processors are low-power in their own right, but they DO still require a fan, and if you even think about running anything that needs all the performance it can get, every single devicecan and will get hot, no matter what underlying operating system. You can't beat the laws of physics, no matter what. (There's a reason why most Intel Core-based processors use active cooling.)

If your Surface Pro is not responding to touch input in Windows, you have bigger problems. Using Linux is a Band-Aid for now - it does not fix the underlying problem. There's been several driver updates that should help a lot with regard to the touch screen's usability since the Surface Pro's initial release, too. Go try them out too. If these doesn't help, refresh/reset Windows. If that still doesn't work, consider getting it serviced - sometimes it really is faulty hardware. (I should have known better.)



Again, my statement is general - I do not know how well the Surface Pro runs Linux.

Either way, I'm still poking around Windows 8.1, and it certainly feels much... nicer than Windows 8. I'm very fine with Windows 8, but Windows 8.1? Now that's icing on the cake. I can probably ditch Windows 7, you know.
1) 9x...? Oh, you mean nine times? Cuz I used XP 0.0 About...oh...20 or so times, in my life? BTW W7 on XP mode is BEAST.

2) Yes, they are.

3) "running background applications" Have you ever really looked at your Task Manager. Windows ALWAYS runs background programs at ridiculous RAM, many of which aren't needed and can't be cut off, and though it's still better than background apps on android, it's not even close to as efficient as Linux. At the same time, Linux is a bit more complicated than Windows, and I've just adjusted to Windows, but I still prefer a W8 as long as it doesn't auto-have tons of programs on it I don't use. It once was just Word and IE, now it's iTunes, Silverlight, freaking Abode Reader that no one uses anymore (unless you use Google Docs and want to print), etc...

Now, I'm an MMOer, so that's also a reason I prefer Windows, but Windows being MORE EFFICIENT than Linux? Noooooooo....

4) See, that's why I use Chrome. It's a large file, but I don't have to install ANY other features, 'cept for the occasional Unity. It has Docs, Drive, Email, Search, Translator, etc on its website, it auto links with my gmail account, and the RAM is oh so small compared to IE +apps - which Windows auto-forces into your system.

5) Um, no. Your laptop should NEVER get hot unless your fans are dirty or old. I run Neverwinter and P101 just fine - even TERA could could run well on my old laptop before the fans got dirty/old. If it's getting hot, either Windows is running too much RAM or you need new fans - and possibly, by that, a new laptop.

6) So you're saying she should NOT put the band-aid on and let it bleed out until the nurse comes in with a new leg? No, that's terrible logic.

7) Apparently not.

8) Have a backup for W7, just in case. I learned that the hard way when I didn't back up my Firefox 3.6 and they updated it to FF 4.... *sigh*

--

I'm an absolute fan of Windows, but even though it is WAY better than anything made by Apple (Screw you Mac!) it definitely has WAY more problems than any Linux ever has or will.

--

Oh, and Ima wait till I get a touch-laptop for Windows 8 proper. Little to no use if it isn't a touchscreen.
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Old October 19th, 2013, 09:55 AM
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For everyone that have been using Windows 8.1, how does it feel? What do you think of it? Does it work well for your hardware? Did it play nice with your installed applications?

Windows 8.1 certainly hasn't gone crazy on my laptop and tablet yet. Don't think there's anything that got their screws loose, so it's all good.

I certainly feel Windows 8.1 has its place once you get things optimized for regular desktop usage, even without a touch screen. You'd be surprised how well things can get once you start to just type the name of the app you want to use in Start... it has been working that way since Windows Vista, I think. Get used to pinning apps to the taskbar, too. Sometimes I still don't really want to have a touch laptop if it means I can spend more on other things.

OS X is a nice operating system and I've used it. It's certainly different from Windows, and both Windows and OS X both have their own pros and cons, which I won't be discussing about right here. Still, I'm not a fan of Linux... Guess I must be getting old, since I either never got around to get it to work on my hardware, or UI quirks get in the way. Hahahahaha!
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  #19    
Old October 19th, 2013, 04:07 PM
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Rezilia, it all differs per user.
I've been using Linux since my childhood, long before I even saw a Windows PC for the first ever time, so Linux is much easier for me to use than Windows.
And Windows 9x is a group name for Windows 1, Windows 2, Windows 3, Windows 3.11, Windows 95, Windows 98, Windows 98SE, and Windows Me.

Twiggy, Windows 8.1 works well enough.
To my feelings, it actually runs the same as Windows 8, plus it has more customisation options.
The most changes are in the pre-installed Modern UI Apps, which I don't use anyway.
Also, what do you mean by "UI quirks"?
If you mean, many different Desktop Environments and Window Managers to choose from, then I agree.

To me, Windows 95, Windows 7, and everything in-between, always had the same Look and Feel.
Windows 8 started to feel different, which I really liked, but apparently, many other people didn't.
Although the first Windows PC I saw ran Windows XP, it doesn't mean I've never used any older ones.
In fact, I like exploring through many different OSs, old, new, easy, hard, it doesn't matter.

A really big issue of Windows is, it's limited in its customisations, unless you install 3rd Party Apps.
On Linux, I can customise it to my very own likings, and there's no other Linux user who can match my Linux system.
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Old October 20th, 2013, 09:25 PM
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So the new mail app is rather interesting. It auto-sorts your mail by newsletters and social updates and whatnot, which I found annoying. I Googled for about 20 minutes before I found a solution, but I'm gonna put them here so you don't have to look everywhere.

1. Open the mail app and pull out your charms, then hit "Settings" at the bottom.
2. Tap on "Accounts", then select your account that you want to modify.
3. Scroll up (It's partway down when you open it by default) and uncheck "Show Newsletters separately" and "Show social updates separately". Then, all your messages will go to just one folder, and not be separated.
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Old October 21st, 2013, 02:56 AM
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I downloaded Windows 8.1 last night and had the pleasure of discovering upon restart that my graphics card drivers had been completely wiped from my laptop, leaving my resolution only being able to reach a maximum of 1280 x 800. A clean re-install of said drivers did the trick, however.

Not only that, I also find this 'reincarnation' of the Start button ridiculous. I could do exactly the same thing it does now (jump off the desktop to the Metro UI or whatever Microsoft calls it) by clicking in the exact area of the screen it lays at the moment. I have no idea why Microsoft felt the need to put in a Start button again when it serves literally no purpose and, consequentially, is nowhere near as useful as it once was. Disappointing.
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Old October 21st, 2013, 05:55 AM
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Originally Posted by Aurora2698 View Post
I downloaded Windows 8.1 last night and had the pleasure of discovering upon restart that my graphics card drivers had been completely wiped from my laptop, leaving my resolution only being able to reach a maximum of 1280 x 800. A clean re-install of said drivers did the trick, however.

Not only that, I also find this 'reincarnation' of the Start button ridiculous. I could do exactly the same thing it does now (jump off the desktop to the Metro UI or whatever Microsoft calls it) by clicking in the exact area of the screen it lays at the moment. I have no idea why Microsoft felt the need to put in a Start button again when it serves literally no purpose and, consequentially, is nowhere near as useful as it once was. Disappointing.
1. Helps a lot with discoverability, especially with casual observers/users.
2. Allows invoking the Power User Menu with a long-tap on a Windows device with no keyboard.
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  #23    
Old October 23rd, 2013, 07:46 AM
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A friend of mine had his computer pack up and die on him after installing 8.1

He works in IT so pretty easily and quickly went in and worked out the issue, essentially it destroyed his registry and jumbled everything around! It's somewhat put me off bothering to update...

Besides I have the start menu macro'd onto a button on my mouse, I can't remember the last time I used the invisible start button in the corner...
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Old October 23rd, 2013, 07:59 AM
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But at least they got rid of the logic of, if you want to shut down your Computer, click Start.
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Old October 23rd, 2013, 08:45 AM
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All of this sounds just one big major headache. I think I'll just stick with Windows 7.
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