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  #1    
Old December 7th, 2013 (09:55 AM).
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Who wins in a fight to the death between the Shadow Pokemon from the Colluseum & XD games and the Mega Evolutions from the X & Y games? Personally I think Shadow mons would beat the **** out of those beta Mega mons. Shadow Pokes don't need no stones or rings, they already have the power.

Thoughts?
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Old December 7th, 2013 (11:00 AM).
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Awesome topic. Anyway, my bias is kicking in and I want to say Shadow Pokemon, but you also have to consider they're stuck at whatever level they're on and stuck with whatever moveset they have. If we're going by XD's Shadow Pokemon, then that's a better judge than using Colosseum's. Plus, they changed the type chart in XD to make Shadow super effective on regular Pokemon. But I think with Shadow Pokemon being held back from getting stat gains and being stuck at whatever level they're on really hinders them and I think Mega Evolutions would win against them.

Overall though, I prefer Shadow Pokemon to Mega Evolutions. The concept behind them is more unique I believe. Also interesting to note that Shadow Pokemon have closed hearts, while Mega Evolutions require a bond with the trainer. And there are a few Pokemon that were shadow that now have Mega Evos, like Houndoom, Absol, and Tyranitar. And apparently they really like Dark types...
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Old December 7th, 2013 (11:20 AM).
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Mega Pokemon would win. They are stronger and only specific Pokemon can become Mega Pokemon while anything can become a shadow Pokemon putting a lot more emphasis on the overall power of Mega Pokemon.
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Old December 7th, 2013 (11:26 AM).
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Shadows are so OP that GF won't introduce them to the main games because no one would even make it to the elite four.
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Old December 7th, 2013 (11:44 AM).
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Quote originally posted by Introvert:
Shadows are so OP that GF won't introduce them to the main games because no one would even make it to the elite four.
No they aren't. Gamefreak doesn't acknowledge them because Genious Sonority has the Copyright ownership of them. Gamefreak cannot use them even if they wanted to. That being said, all a Shadow Pokemon is, is a Pokemon who has closed off its heart. A Pokemon that has a deep seated hatred of th world and focuses that hatred into a power. A Power that removes their ability to grow and shortens their life spans. It doesn't make them stronger only allows their anger to come forth and deal a little bit of damage to the opponent, not too much different from any regular Super Effective attack.


Mega Evolution on the other hand requires a fully evolved pokemon to break beyond the physical limits and surpass everything in knows about its species to give a super boosted temporary evolution. It gains additional stats, abilities and types for some Pokemon. Mega Evolution improves the battle growth of a Pokemon while in that form while Shadow Pokemon have stunted growth until they have been released from the Shadow'd status.

Not to mention a Shadow Pokemon does not have access to any of their normal attacks and only one or two Shadow variations that sometimes cause physical harm to the user, making them a double edges sword while in battle since they'll keep whittling down their own HP while attacking.
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Old December 7th, 2013 (11:44 AM).
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Power/battle-wise, I unfortunately have to say Megas.

Asde from that, Shadows win at everything. Hands-down, no question.
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Old December 7th, 2013 (12:00 PM).
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Quote originally posted by Thief Noctis:
Shadows win at everything. Hands-down, no question.
You know what? I agree!
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Old December 7th, 2013 (12:07 PM).
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As seen in the GC games, your regular Pokemon collectively prove to overcome the Shadow Pokemon. I think coming from like an emotional standpoint, yeah the Megas are going to triumph over the Pokemon deemed "fighting machines".
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Old December 7th, 2013 (12:17 PM).
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What about a game with Mega Shadow Pokemon? XYD Gale of Colosseum.
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Old December 7th, 2013 (12:20 PM).
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Quote originally posted by Introvert:
What about a game with Mega Shadow Pokemon? XYD Gale of Colosseum.
You wouldn't be able to do both since they are on opposite ends of the affection spectrum. You have to have a close bond with your Pokemon to make them Mega Evolve. If you have a close bond, then their hearts are not closed off and therefore cannot become Shadow Pokemon.
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Old December 7th, 2013 (12:29 PM).
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Quote originally posted by XanderO:
You wouldn't be able to do both since they are on opposite ends of the affection spectrum. You have to have a close bond with your Pokemon to make them Mega Evolve. If you have a close bond, then their hearts are not closed off and therefore cannot become Shadow Pokemon.
Yeah I like how none of that is even required to activate mega evolution within the games. Just throw the appropriate stone on your Pokemon and you're good to go.

After reading through these posts maybe Mega's would have the advantage in a fight (barring Shadow Lugia perhaps?) but I still think the concept is lame.

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Old December 7th, 2013 (12:36 PM).
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You seem quite adamant about Shadow Pokemon. Are you perhaps a member of Cipher?
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Old December 7th, 2013 (12:47 PM).
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Well if I was going to join any of the bad guy organizations it would definitely be Cipher. They were arguably the most successful and connected organization in any of the games. They corrupted cities, politicians and Pokemon what more do you want?
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Old December 7th, 2013 (12:54 PM).
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i would definitely have to agree with you guys that shadow pokemon take the cake. Colosseum was one of my favorite pokemon games and the only game that has rivaled it has been x and y. i would kill to see it remade on the 3ds. but yeah shadow pokemon ftw
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Old December 7th, 2013 (01:05 PM). Edited December 7th, 2013 by Paige Berlitz.
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Shadow pokemon will triumph over everything. Just because MegaPokemon don't neccessarily do damage to themselves don't mean anything. And the only reason why normal pokemon overcome the shadow pokemon is because it is designed for you too. If it wasn't designed to then Shadow Pokemon would win. And Look at Shadow Moltres. Shadow Flame is a OHKO just like Shadow Bolt and Shadow Chill. XD001 aka Shadow Lugia is basically the only one that survived that. Don't forget the move that brings in a Shadow weather were normal pokemon and mega evolutions are effected except for shadow pokemon and it is permanent since it isn't a real weather. Point being Shadow Pokemon will win.

Edit:

BTW IT WAS TEAM SNAGEM THAT FIRST CREATED SHADOW POKEMON NOT THE CIPHER ORGANIZATION.
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Old December 7th, 2013 (01:46 PM).
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Quote originally posted by Daughter of Dawn:
Shadow pokemon will triumph over everything. Just because MegaPokemon don't neccessarily do damage to themselves don't mean anything. And the only reason why normal pokemon overcome the shadow pokemon is because it is designed for you too. If it wasn't designed to then Shadow Pokemon would win. And Look at Shadow Moltres. Shadow Flame is a OHKO just like Shadow Bolt and Shadow Ice. XD001 aka Shadow Lugia is basically the only one that survived that. Don't forget the move that brings in a Shadow weather were normal pokemon and mega evolutions are effected except for shadow pokemon and it is permanent since it isn't a real weather. Point being Shadow Pokemon will win.

Edit:

BTW IT WAS TEAM SNAGEM THAT FIRST CREATED SHADOW POKEMON NOT THE CIPHER ORGANIZATION.
Let's run some calculations then shall we. And the point is to show that Shadow moves are obviously not guranteed OHKO's since Megas are often really bulky, and Shadow Pokemon receive no STAB upon using said moves.

Shadow Moltres vs. Mega-Kanghaskhan. Correct me if these calculations are off.


252+ SpA Shadow Moltres Shadow Fire vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Mega Kangaskhan: 176-208 (50 - 59%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252+ Atk Parental Bond Mega Kangaskhan Return vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Moltres: 292-343 (90.6 - 106.5%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO

If you're unfamiliar with the format, the line endings sum it up: Shadow Fire is a guarenteed 2HKO against M-Kang, while M-Kang's return has a 37.5% chance to OHKO, and 100% chance of a 2HKO.

Obviously if we're trying to generalize here, specific scenarios aren't exactly the most useful, but in most cases, Megas have increased stats and ways to take a non-STABed Shadow move, if not out-speeding the opponent and taking them out first.

And btw, Cipher's Ein created the Shadow Pokemon didn't he? Snagem just helped collect the Pokemon (correct me if I'm wrong ._.).
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Old December 7th, 2013 (01:55 PM).
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Well considering that there are no simulations to test that then your argument is invalid.

And also not all Shadow moves are Special moves. And there are Shadow Status affecting moves as well. So therefore a Shadow move could confuse you and then you could hurt yourself in confusion.
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Old December 7th, 2013 (01:59 PM).
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Quote originally posted by Daughter of Dawn:
Well considering that there are no simulations to test that then your argument is invalid.

And also not all Shadow moves are Special moves. And there are Shadow Status affecting moves as well. So therefore a Shadow move could confuse you and then you could hurt yourself in confusion.
I just simulated it with the damage calculator.

And Megas also have access to status moves, and weather. Point being, the only thing that differentiates the Shadows from the Megas is the ability to land super-effective hits. Megas with the right matchup can do this as well, in addition to buffed stats.
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Old December 7th, 2013 (02:05 PM).
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Well considering Shadow was back in Gen 3 then all the megas would only have the movesets to that they normally would have in gen 3. And some megas didn't even exist in gen 3. And Shadow Moves are always Super Effective which ends in a 2x damage and 2x for weakness.
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Old December 7th, 2013 (02:12 PM).
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Quote originally posted by Daughter of Dawn:
Well considering Shadow was back in Gen 3 then all the megas would only have the movesets to that they normally would have in gen 3. And some megas didn't even exist in gen 3. And Shadow Moves are always Super Effective which ends in a 2x damage and 2x for weakness.
None of the megas "exist" in Gen. III. I think the point is to compare them regardless of generation. Besides, Gens 4-6 only introduce Abomasnow, Garchomp and Lucario. And in the example I provided, Kangaskhan still gets Return in Gen III.

And since Shadow moves have no type, they only go for 2x weakness, not 4x.
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Old December 7th, 2013 (02:17 PM).
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I know but if it was critical as well then it would deal another 2x damage.
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Old December 7th, 2013 (02:27 PM).
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Quote originally posted by Daughter of Dawn:
I know but if it was critical as well then it would deal another 2x damage.
Well if you're relying on crits, what does that say about the Shadow Pokemon haha?
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Old December 7th, 2013 (11:20 PM).
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Well if I was going to join any of the bad guy organizations it would definitely be Cipher. They were arguably the most successful and connected organization in any of the games. They corrupted cities, politicians and Pokemon what more do you want?
I want them to not lose to kids that look younger than ten years old. :V
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BTW IT WAS TEAM SNAGEM THAT FIRST CREATED SHADOW POKEMON NOT THE CIPHER ORGANIZATION.
...no, I'm pretty sure they just stole them, and Cipher did all of the Shadow-making.

As for the topic on hand... well, I think Megas do get a better boost (100 to base stats in total? Sometimes a bonus ability and typing change to benefit from as well?) than what Shadow Pokemon get (new moves that aren't necessarily better than what they would normally learn, mind, super effective on non-Shadow Pokemon). But in terms of concept, I prefer the Shadow one. Mega seems rather region-specific at the moment, but Shadow Pokemon introduces an interesting bunch of concepts. Pokemon battle with friendship, but go the other way and the result can be terrifying. Mega Pokemon require a stone or two, and the effects only last the battle. Shadow Pokemon? They remain shadow, until you work hard enough to get on their good side. And even then, you need the help of Celebi/Relix Stone, or a whole bunch of science (Purification Chamber) to totally reverse the effects. And Lugia was not far off from being unpurifiable to boot. And Mega Pokemon have control over their power - Shadow Pokemon may just as easily turn on trainers.

In terms of concept, I feel Shadow Pokes are more interesting to me. And they're probably the ones I'd like to face less than Mega Pokemon if I was an actual Pokemon trainer. Thankfully I'm not. =p
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Old December 8th, 2013 (01:05 AM).
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Quote originally posted by Flushed:
252+ SpA Shadow Moltres Shadow Fire vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Mega Kangaskhan: 176-208 (50 - 59%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252+ Atk Parental Bond Mega Kangaskhan Return vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Moltres: 292-343 (90.6 - 106.5%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO
Does this take into consideration that Return hits twice, once at full power and then again with half power due to Parental Bond? Kinda looks as if it just calculates it once unless the 292-343 is the total of both hits connecting. If the calculator didn't and represents it as 292 as a base hit then there is still a 146 damage hit hitting right after.
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Old December 8th, 2013 (12:04 PM).
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Quote originally posted by XanderO:
Does this take into consideration that Return hits twice, once at full power and then again with half power due to Parental Bond? Kinda looks as if it just calculates it once unless the 292-343 is the total of both hits connecting. If the calculator didn't and represents it as 292 as a base hit then there is still a 146 damage hit hitting right after.
I believe it does. I'm actually sorta new to the damage calculator, but I assume the abilities factor in.

Kang @any other ability:
252+ Atk Mega Kangaskhan Return vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Moltres: 195-229 (60.5 - 71.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

I also assume OHKO means for both hits to take out the Moltres, so 292-343 is the total of both hits connecting.
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