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  #751    
Old June 30th, 2014 (07:35 PM).
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Speedruns can be pretty boring, but sometimes I do watch them just to see how fast people can beat bosses. I do love watching Let's Plays though. Game Grumps of course and then sometimes I watch Tobuscus and Pewdiepie for Happy Wheels and some other games but I'm not too into them.
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  #752    
Old July 3rd, 2014 (07:28 AM).
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I'm not into speed runs, and I only watch let's plays of older games that I never had a chance to own myself. I don't see the point if I have the game already when I could be playing it XD
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  #753    
Old July 3rd, 2014 (03:03 PM).
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Quote originally posted by Penelope:
I'm not into speed runs, and I only watch let's plays of older games that I never had a chance to own myself. I don't see the point if I have the game already when I could be playing it XD
Same here! Though, I have tendency to avoid let's-plays of games that I absolutely feel that I'll be playing at some point in future. If not, then I'll simply go ahead and watch.
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Old July 3rd, 2014 (04:28 PM).
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Quote originally posted by machomuu:
For instance, with Let's Plays, all there is to it is someone playing a game. That's it. I've never been a fan of it myself, and I only watch Game Grumps (and there, it's for the commentary, mostly).
That's quite the over-simplification, lol. Or maybe most people don't actually differentiate the good from the idiots as we do... /shrug

What I mean to say is: It sounds to me like you're confusing the standard "I'm recording myself playing a game for the Internet!!" kind of doofus with an actual LP. If it's a proper LP then there's no talking over cutscenes, there's both funny and insightful commentary about the game, the player isn't inept at the game, and -- even if you're familiar with the game -- chances are you will learn something from watching. It's meant to be more of.. an entertaining walkthrough, if you will. :3


And now I'll step down from soapbox, because we have a hurricane coming and I probably shouldn't be on my computer. xD I just really enjoy LPs when they're done right. ie, not the standard YT ones. I have a list of good LPers, and I have a Greasemonkey script blocking the bad ones from showing up on Youtube. c:

I just expect them to be entertaining, but when it's just two people shooting completely out of context injokes back and forth, it's a waste of time to me unless I know they player. Because then I know the injoke. Y'know? Or when it's some guy and his buddy playing really badly because "it's funny" then it's also a waste of my time. And for the love of God, what the ♥♥♥♥ is up with this "scare-cam" craze.. It is the dumbest thing.. :v

Like most others said, it's usually only for games I don't think I'll ever have the chance to play, like the Super Mario Galaxy 2 LP that Diabetus just wrapped up recently. But sometimes it's fun to watch the better ones play old favorites. They usually show off easter eggs and stuff that I probably would have never found, lol.
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  #755    
Old July 3rd, 2014 (04:53 PM). Edited July 3rd, 2014 by machomuu.
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Quote originally posted by Sgt.Dustmop:
That's quite the over-simplification, lol. Or maybe most people don't actually differentiate the good from the idiots as we do... /shrug

What I mean to say is: It sounds to me like you're confusing the standard "I'm recording myself playing a game for the Internet!!" kind of doofus with an actual LP. If it's a proper LP then there's no talking over cutscenes, there's both funny and insightful commentary about the game, the player isn't inept at the game, and -- even if you're familiar with the game -- chances are you will learn something from watching. It's meant to be more of.. an entertaining walkthrough, if you will. :3


And now I'll step down from soapbox, because we have a hurricane coming and I probably shouldn't be on my computer. xD I just really enjoy LPs when they're done right. ie, not the standard YT ones. I have a list of good LPers, and I have a Greasemonkey script blocking the bad ones from showing up on Youtube. c:

I just expect them to be entertaining, but when it's just two people shooting completely out of context injokes back and forth, it's a waste of time to me unless I know they player. Because then I know the injoke. Y'know? :P Or when it's some guy and his buddy playing really badly because "it's funny" then it's also a waste of my time. And for the love of God, what the ♥♥♥♥ is up with this "scare-cam" craze.. It is the dumbest thing.. :v

Like most others said, it's usually only for games I don't think I'll ever have the chance to play, like the Super Mario Galaxy 2 LP that Diabetus just wrapped up recently. But sometimes it's fun to watch the better ones play old favorites. They usually show off easter eggs and stuff that I probably would have never found, lol.
Well I was generalizing, because that's what a Let's Play is. Sure, there are different types, but for a Let's Play to be a Let's Play, it just has to be someone playing a game and then posting it on the internet. It doesn't have to be good to be a Let's Play, it just can't be...say, a clip or highlights. It has to follow the player.

For instance, someone can start a game and play it to the finish with absolutely nothing to say, it'll still be an LP. But if...say, Game Grumps do a one off, it's still an LP. Similarly, if someone does a challenge or has some type of quirk to the LP, it's still an LP. But it's because of the broad nature of the genre that it really doesn't interest me as a whole. And saying that there are certain prerequisites for what constitutes as a "proper Let's Play" is more a matter of personal preference/qualifications than an objective identification of what counts and what doesn't.

The whole reason that I got into Game Grumps wasn't because they were LP, I rarely even have a chance to refer to them as that. In fact, the appeal there is mostly the commentary and not the gameplay (though they do go hand in hand a good number of times). I got into it because I saw that an animator I knew of growing up (or...in my early teen years forward, I guess) made a channel and it ended up being pretty funny. That was assured quality, basically. At the same time, and I'll 180 this back to my original point, they're not the majority. They can't be. LPs are too broad to be and, as a concept, too simple for them not too be done by the masses. It's basically the same reason why I don't watch something on youtube made by some random Joe and expect it to be good, especially when taking views into consideration.

And in the case of games I won't ever play...I probably won't watch at all. With GG, it works because I watch for the commentary first (but of course, gameplay and other facets aren't counted out of the equation completely, especially since I watch the show and don't treat it as if it were a podcast). There are other reasons as well, but that's the sort of idea to the show, for the most part. That's why the appeal is so varied, especially because they never ignore the game altogether and don't really bind themselves to specific genres. And I know not all LP should be about the commentary first and foremost, but it works to view GG that way because that's their hook. It's in their name. But if you're watching an LP that puts the gameplay first, unless the LPer is doing something explicitly entertaining (scare-cams for horror games, commentary/challenges/etc for narration non-heavy games, etc.) then I can't see any reason to watch. Because if I don't want to play the game and the LPer doesn't really provide to make up for the "why", then I'm just watching the game. The game that I don't want to play. And in the case that it's a game that I can't play for whatever reason, I still wouldn't, because it would be riddled with spoilers for when the chance comes for me to actually play it. That's just me, though.

But I think the biggest difference is you go into them expecting them to be good, but I can't do that for anything that's so easy to produce. Anything at all; because when that's the case there's such a large margin for quality.
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  #756    
Old July 3rd, 2014 (05:39 PM).
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Quote originally posted by machomuu:
Well I was generalizing, because that's what a Let's Play is. Sure, there are different types, but for a Let's Play to be a Let's Play, it just has to be someone playing a game and then posting it on the internet. It doesn't have to be good to be a Let's Play, it just can't be...say, a clip or highlights. It has to follow the player.

For instance, someone can start a game and play it to the finish with absolutely nothing to say, it'll still be an LP. But if...say, Game Grumps do a one off, it's still an LP. Similarly, if someone does a challenge or has some type of quirk to the LP, it's still an LP. But it's because of the broad nature of the genre that it really doesn't interest me as a whole. And saying that there are certain prerequisites for what constitutes as a "proper Let's Play" is more a matter of personal preference/qualifications than an objective identification of what counts and what doesn't.

The whole reason that I got into Game Grumps wasn't because they were LP, I rarely even have a chance to refer to them as that. In fact, the appeal there is mostly the commentary and not the gameplay (though they do go hand in hand a good number of times). I got into it because I saw that an animator I knew of growing up (or...in my early teen years forward, I guess) made a channel and it ended up being pretty funny. That was assured quality, basically. At the same time, and I'll 180 this back to my original point, they're not the majority. They can't be. LPs are too broad to be and, as a concept, too simple for them not too be done by the masses. It's basically the same reason why I don't watch something on youtube made by some random Joe and expect it to be good, especially when taking views into consideration.

And in the case of games I won't ever play...I probably won't watch at all. With GG, it works because I watch for the commentary first (but of course, gameplay and other facets aren't counted out of the equation completely, especially since I watch the show and don't treat it as if it were a podcast). There are other reasons as well, but that's the sort of idea to the show, for the most part. That's why the appeal is so varied, especially because they never ignore the game altogether and don't really bind themselves to specific genres. And I know not all LP should be about the commentary first and foremost, but it works to view GG that way because that's their hook. It's in their name. But if you're watching an LP that puts the gameplay first, unless the LPer is doing something explicitly entertaining (scare-cams for horror games, commentary/challenges/etc for narration non-heavy games, etc.) then I can't see any reason to watch. Because if I don't want to play the game and the LPer doesn't really provide to make up for the "why", then I'm just watching the game. The game that I don't want to play. And in the case that it's a game that I can't play for whatever reason, I still wouldn't, because it would be riddled with spoilers for when the chance comes for me to actually play it. That's just me, though.

But I think the biggest difference is you go into them expecting them to be good, but I can't do that for anything that's so easy to produce. Anything at all; because when that's the case there's such a large margin for quality.
I feel really terrible shortening this up to such a small reply but... while I do agree that you could call pretty much anything an LP, I think a lot of it -- for me -- is that I've spent an awful lot of time on SomethingAwful. They have a pretty decent standard for quality on there, so I've got a high-quality expectation before I'll call it an LP. Pretty much the only LPers I will watch at all are from there, and from there it's mostly been narrowed down to people I know and people I'd like to know, lol.
Not to sound all elitist or anything, haha, but to me LPs have been defined purely by, well, Retsupurae, seeing as they basically started it in the first place. And they do a great job of making fun of bad LPers. But most of those people have gotten better with criticism!


So because I feel bad that I don't have much else to contribute other than a "let's politely agree to disagree." I have a question of the utmost importance.

"unless the LPer is doing something explicitly entertaining then I can't see any reason to watch."


You mentioned the scare-cams I dread, so I'm curious to know if/where you'd draw the line on these sorts of gimmick-LPs. Like, say, would that include someone playing Super Mario 64 with just their feet? Or is that too 'gimmicky?'
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  #757    
Old July 3rd, 2014 (06:03 PM).
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Quote originally posted by Sgt.Dustmop:
I feel really terrible shortening this up to such a small reply but... while I do agree that you could call pretty much anything an LP, I think a lot of it -- for me -- is that I've spent an awful lot of time on SomethingAwful. They have a pretty decent standard for quality on there, so I've got a high-quality expectation before I'll call it an LP. Pretty much the only LPers I will watch at all are from there, and from there it's mostly been narrowed down to people I know and people I'd like to know, lol.
Not to sound all elitist or anything, haha, but to me LPs have been defined purely by, well, Retsupurae, seeing as they basically started it in the first place. And they do a great job of making fun of bad LPers. But most of those people have gotten better with criticism! :)


So because I feel bad that I don't have much else to contribute other than a "let's politely agree to disagree." I have a question of the utmost importance.

"unless the LPer is doing something explicitly entertaining then I can't see any reason to watch."


You mentioned the scare-cams I dread, so I'm curious to know if/where you'd draw the line on these sorts of gimmick-LPs. Like, say, would that include someone playing Super Mario 64 with just their feet? Or is that too 'gimmicky?'
I don't think it's elitest at all. In fact, I agree with you for the most part. It simply comes down to wanting to see what you like to see, and having a standard works as a filter for finding what you like (and finding what's good and what isn't). I think that's a good way to go about it. Of course, nothing's wrong with being a little curious sometimes and straying from your norm.

As for the gimmicks...it depends. You see me harking back to GG alot because they're the only LP channel I watch, but one of the things is that I'm not really a big fan of scare cams, either. I'm not really against them, per se but...sorry to do this...there were two games GG did that really cemented why I don't think face cams are necessary (Dreadout and Silent Hill Shattered Memories). Legitimate fear will be effective and/or funny on its own. I get the idea of scare cams, but you can effectively get that fear across if the game truly scares the player.

In general, though...I feel that if someone is clearly reaching to get views by doing something unorthodox because they know that they can't provide entertainment on their own, that's too far. As you said, people get better from criticism, but if someone clings to a gimmick because that's all they have to pull in views, I can't good and well support it. Because that will get old. And while I don't think LPers need to change completely as they progress, they do need to strive to better their LPs as well as themselves, and clinging to a gimmick may sort of stunt that process. After all, even the most unique LP can be boring without personal effort. I know that's not the most direct answer, but that's what sort of came to me when I read that.

Speaking of reading, sorry for all this text <_<' It's not intentional, it just...happens. But if you really have more to say on the matter then by all means. I'm not the type to get personal with debates, and the wordiness might give off an air of aggressiveness, but that's unintentional. Honestly, I'm interested in hearing what people look for in LPs and why they like them. Because of their broad nature, it's interesting to learn what type of people like what, even if I'm not immersed in LP culture, myself.
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Old July 4th, 2014 (12:13 AM).
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I'm not into speedruns that much myself, it is just not appealing to watch. Sure it is cool that you can finish a game so fast, but I like it when people take their time to explore the map. But the type of games I watch and like are barely speedrunable :P

Even when I try it it still takes me 15+ minutes for one mission, yay for RTS games, the genre that is barely speedrunable :D
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  #759    
Old July 4th, 2014 (08:38 AM).
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Quote originally posted by Libra:
I'm not into speedruns that much myself, it is just not appealing to watch. Sure it is cool that you can finish a game so fast, but I like it when people take their time to explore the map. But the type of games I watch and like are barely speedrunable :P

Even when I try it it still takes me 15+ minutes for one mission, yay for RTS games, the genre that is barely speedrunable :D
Yeah, there was a speedrun of Warcraft 3 during SGDQ this year.

...Not exactly the most thrilling run you can find.
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Old July 4th, 2014 (11:03 AM).
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Quote originally posted by machomuu:
Yeah, there was a speedrun of Warcraft 3 during SGDQ this year.

...Not exactly the most thrilling run you can find.
My lone question for that particular speedrunner is just, "Why?" I'm sure the answer I'll get is "Why not?", though.
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Old July 4th, 2014 (11:40 AM).
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I'm with the crowd that just doesn't like watching speedruns. Yeah, I guess it's interesting to see how speedrunners break the game for maximum efficiency, but if I'm watching an LP of a game I want to see how it's supposed to be played.

I don't have the patience to try speedrunning myself, either. With my backlog, it's hard enough to get through a game once, much less constantly practice, do multiple runs to get better times, etc.
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Old July 4th, 2014 (01:54 PM).
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Quote originally posted by Morkula:
I'm with the crowd that just doesn't like watching speedruns. Yeah, I guess it's interesting to see how speedrunners break the game for maximum efficiency, but if I'm watching an LP of a game I want to see how it's supposed to be played.

I don't have the patience to try speedrunning myself, either. With my backlog, it's hard enough to get through a game once, much less constantly practice, do multiple runs to get better times, etc.
I wouldn't really compare the two, though. I wouldn't recommend a speedrun to an LP viewer for much the same reason I wouldn't recommend an LP to a speedrun viewer; they're probably watching for different reasons.
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Old July 5th, 2014 (05:43 AM).
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I can play speedruns but I can't watch them. They're more boring than watching the game played proper and I don't know why. Something about the narrator not even being able to keep up with what they're narrating and doing the bare minimum in a game is a turn off to me.
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Old July 5th, 2014 (06:58 AM).
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Geez, I'm half surprised to see all this apathy towards speedruns, it's a little disconcerting.

Either way, we've been on this topic for...what, two? three weeks? Let's move on to something else. Specifically, What game would you like see get a port, remake, or an HD remake?

Because lately I've been playing older games that not only feel left in the dust as a series, but also could do with some improvement if they were to be given new life. Dot Hack GU is a good example of this. Things have been quiet around the Dot Hack Scene, and this is unfortunate because the game could do with some improvements that could greatly increase it's longevity and gameplay complexity to the extent where the crowd for the game opens up. Not to mention that the game isn't available as a Playstation Classic, so the only way to buy it nowadays is to find one in the range of $60 to $200, opened or otherwise. And it's sad to see a series I grew up with go without the West even getting the game that's supposed to be the bookend.

So what about you guys?
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Old July 5th, 2014 (08:10 PM).
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I'd love to see HD/remakes of Donkey Kong 64, Super Mario RPG: Legend of the Seven Stars, and Diddy Kong Racing. Three of my all time favorite games very deserving of remakes. :D
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Old July 6th, 2014 (03:49 AM).
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Majora's Mask. Hand's down. I want this to happen. Like actual remake though. Filled out with some additional microdungeons. Orchestrated music. A dark Tim Burton-like art style (like it had in the official art for the original game).

Twilight Princess is also screaming for a remake. But all it really needs is to be HD and have clearer textures. Maybe Skywar Sword -like motion controls.

Super Mario 64. I know it already had a remake on the DS. But... honestly playing Mario Kart 8.... I want it to look like that lol Simple as that

On that note, the three Rare collectathon N64 platformers as well. All the official art for those games were these detailed 3D renders that looked for better than the games did and I had my kid brain imagination spinning. I want to actually walk through the fully realized concepts.
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Old July 6th, 2014 (12:02 PM).
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I know a lot of people have different opinions on Let's Plays and whether theyre a good thing or not. I mean if you want to watch somebody play the game for you, then just go out and buy the damn game yourself. I agree with this, for the most part. I would watch someone do a let's play for a more story oriented game, because you expirence the meat of the game anyways, even though you're not playing. Games like The Walkind Dead, Stanley Parable, and Gone Home are perfect for Let's Plays, but in my humble opinion, watching a Let's Play of an FPS is pretty pointless.
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Old July 6th, 2014 (12:13 PM).
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Quote originally posted by SuperEspeon:
I know a lot of people have different opinions on Let's Plays and whether theyre a good thing or not. I mean if you want to watch somebody play the game for you, then just go out and buy the damn game yourself. I agree with this, for the most part. I would watch someone do a let's play for a more story oriented game, because you expirence the meat of the game anyways, even though you're not playing. Games like The Walkind Dead, Stanley Parable, and Gone Home are perfect for Let's Plays, but in my humble opinion, watching a Let's Play of an FPS is pretty pointless.
People do it for the entertainment. Maybe the LPer is interesting or funny, maybe the way they play makes it entertaining to watch (for better or for worse), and maybe they just like watching games. Maybe they don't want to play the game; maybe you just want to experience it from a different perspective. There's even the chance that the game is just entertaining to watch and isn't that great on its own.

I may not be into LPs myself, but I think the point of them is pretty clear. People watch them for the fun of it.
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Old July 6th, 2014 (12:17 PM).
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I enjoy Let's Plays of certain games. I used to watch a lot of NintendoCapriSun, but I've since stopped watching him as much - could be due to the games he's chosen to play. I enjoy Minecraft LPs and I'm mostly watching Mindcrack members LP games or play together. They're a fun gang of guys (and a gal), so it's entertaining to watch them.
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Old July 6th, 2014 (04:36 PM). Edited July 6th, 2014 by Spinosaurus.
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If you haven't watched Pokecapn's Sonic 06 LP you did something wrong.

Too good, too hilarious.
Quote originally posted by Klippy:
I'd love to see HD/remakes of Donkey Kong 64, Super Mario RPG: Legend of the Seven Stars, and Diddy Kong Racing. Three of my all time favorite games very deserving of remakes. :D
So everyone can realize how bad it is? Sonic Adventure 1/2 all over again! :D

Also, F-Zero GX. The game is just begging for it. You mention this game and someone will bound to ask for a port.

All it needs is online and HD visuals, and it also should be able to handle 60fps in split screen. The game is gorgeous and masterful already, it doesn't need changes; just a port to keep it relevant.

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Old July 6th, 2014 (09:37 PM).
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That...sounds pretty awesome. A HD version of that and I'll be there. Already looks great...Online sounds like it'd be a blast - I'd personally like to see mods, though vanilla gameplay looks fantastic. o3o
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Old July 6th, 2014 (10:11 PM).
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I really can't tell you how refreshing it is to hear people not complain about HD remakes. haha. It seems everyone has that complaint now. Personally I see it as an opportunity to replay old classics, or for some people to start a new favorite for the first time
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Old July 6th, 2014 (10:28 PM).
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Quote originally posted by Morning Sun Espeon:
I really can't tell you how refreshing it is to hear people not complain about HD remakes. haha. It seems everyone has that complaint now. Personally I see it as an opportunity to replay old classics, or for some people to start a new favorite for the first time
Well, I really don't like HD remakes as they are. I half considered excluding it from the question because, for the most part, they're generally wasted opportunities. There are a lot of times where I see things that could do with a complete makeovers or actual additions, and a lot of times companies use them as cash-ins (because they're the cheap, easy, and quick to shell out)

But I've come to realize that they can be done right. Take F-Zero GX for example. That's a beautiful game that could to with an HD remaster. It doesn't really need a remake because...there's not really much to add. Another entry seems more in line than a remake.

Other good examples are the Kingdom Hearts Games, which not only provide the games in HD AND add things, but they give you the games in a value package. Again, these games don't need to be remade, they're good as they are because the games work that way and vary from entry to entry.

And if done in the manner where they make games available at an affordable prices as the collections often do, I'm fine with it. But if I see a game that was made in...say, 2000, I'm going to be pissed. Because ultimately, they will look and feel like games from that era. And that's not a problem if I'm playing the original, but I'd much rather have a remake of Super Mario 64 than a sharper version of it. Not to mention that HD remakes close doors for regular remakes that generally look better because they're retooled for the modern age, and they'll look it. And feel it.

So it varies from game to game and case to case, I'd say. They can be done right, but I don't think there'll ever be an instance where I would take an HD remake over a regular remake. But, conceptually, they are a good idea.
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Old July 6th, 2014 (10:46 PM).
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Quote originally posted by Spinosaurus:
So everyone can realize how bad it is? Sonic Adventure 1/2 all over again! :D
Them be fightin' words! DK64 was awesome back in the day. I will admit it had flaws, but how daaaare you! THOUGH! I will 100% support Sonic Adventure remakes. THOSE games were fantastic. Poor Dreamcast.

Also...the only HD remakes I have a problem with are remakes that are literally from the last generation. They're doing HD/remakes of The Last of Us and Grand Theft Auto V and I just feel like...that's ridiculous.
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Old July 6th, 2014 (10:53 PM).
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Quote originally posted by Klippy:
Also...the only HD remakes I have a problem with are remakes that are literally from the last generation. They're doing HD/remakes of The Last of Us and Grand Theft Auto V and I just feel like...that's ridiculous.
Yeah, but in those cases they're basically just ports. So if you have a PS4 and not a PS3 or an Xbone and not a 360, you can still play them since the systems aren't backwards compatible. Plus GTAV is getting PC release because of it, which is nice.

Though...that is something to note. A lot of times, HD remakes aren't remakes at all. They still have the same flaws the original games did, and it's rare that aesthetically you'll see an HD remake on the level of Halo HD (where they actually redid the games' graphics from scratch). In a lot of cases, HD Port is more accurate. Sometimes you'd get a similar, if not better effect from upscaling on an emulator.
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