View Full Version : Ash's Charizard

August 24th, 2010, 6:23 PM
Why was ash's charmeleon/charizard disobedient?

August 24th, 2010, 6:43 PM
He wasn't ready to train a Pokemon out of his league at the time.

August 24th, 2010, 7:47 PM
It was technically someone else's, so when he got it and it leveled and evolved so fast, he didn't have the required badges to train it.

All I can think of. ;D

August 25th, 2010, 1:21 AM
No, Charizard didn't start obeying Ash until the Orange Islands and Dawn managed to get Mamoswine to obey her with no badges, so badges probably don't have the same effect as they do in the games. Dawn's Mamoswine had the same problem and they explained it as Pokemon's personalities sometimes change when they evolve, I suppose that combined with them evolving too quickly/becoming too strong meant that the trainers had to earn their trust/respect again.

August 25th, 2010, 3:04 AM
Yeah. I mean, Charizard is a kick-ass pokemon, Ash was a n00b who just sent him out hoping something would happen :P

Hence, it disobeyed. Although it was funny when it battled that Charmander...

August 25th, 2010, 3:39 AM
Yeah. I mean, Charizard is a kick-ass pokemon, Ash was a n00b who just sent him out hoping something would happen :P

I agree - I think that more or less sums it all up quite well. Combined with Ash's inexperience and that Charmeleon evolved much too fast without the proper training it's a bit of a no-brainer.

August 25th, 2010, 5:42 AM
Well it's just normal really isn't it? Say if you brought a pet Dog it's not like it will obay you stright away, it takes time! It really depends I guess!
Looking at charizard, when it was a Charmander it obeyed him I just guess it evolved too quickly. (Just look at Dawn and mamoswine! :D)

August 25th, 2010, 5:55 AM
Ash was a terrible trainer, back in the Kanto, and Orange league!
No wonder that Charizard disobeyed him! And his Charizard wasn't even THAT strong charizard- it got pwned by wild charizard!

August 25th, 2010, 7:44 AM
I don't know. It just changed. Humans change. They did too.

August 25th, 2010, 9:29 AM
Not to mention that pokedex entries for charmeleon specifically say that charmeleons are very hot-headed by nature. Heck, they look a heck of a lot meaner than charmander.

So when you put together a n00b trainer, a hot-headed pokemon that wasn't even originally Ash's, you've got a recipe for disaster.

August 25th, 2010, 8:14 PM
I haven't been able myself to truly explain that either. According to the game if you recieve a pokemon from a trade without enough badges and if you level up that pokemon (even if it doesnt evolve) it will disobey you. That happens in all the pokemon games and it happened to me once when I recieved a Chatot in Diamond. But in the anime it makes no sense because charmander had already and clearly earned ash's trust, besides in the game that features serves more like a Lock to prevent you from using pokemon way to leveled up and beat the other gym leaders with no problems, but that rule doesn't really has to be THAT strict in the anime (cause its like if it were on real life isn't it?).

I don't think it was ash's fault, i mean he made mistakes as a trainer specially in battle like any NOOB (and still does sometimes), but he clearly knew how to take care of his pokemon and he earned their trust (don't you remember the episode where ash proved Metapod that he can trust him and that's why he evolved into butterfree?), and he has always been a kind hearted, compasive trainer.

I don't thinks its a matter of evolution either, in the games when a pokemon evolves, it remains the same, the nature of the pokemon remains, only the stats and shape of the pokemon change, not its personality, specially when that pokemon was already obeying the trainer (unless the pokemon was already disobeying before evolving of course).

So I think what happend is that the writers wanted somehow that ash had a disobeying pokemon, but they didn't give a clear cause or explanation for that, specially when we all saw how charmander was perhaps the most obedient pokemon ash has ever had (even pikachu has been disobedient to ash). For me it was an error, a planning mistake, whatever. But I'm glad that at the end Charizard became loyal to ash again. I haven't seen that episode you say about dawn and mamoswine, definetly wanna check it out, if what you guys say its true then it means in the anime, sadly, evolution does change the pokemon personality.

August 25th, 2010, 11:27 PM
I'd argue that most, if not all of "taking care" of pokemon part was done by Brock, not Ash. Does Ash make the pokemons' food? Does he groom them? What does he do for them besides just training them? Off the top of my head I can't think of any instances of Ash doing anything like that - all Brock. (correct me if I'm wrong)

It's not like Ash was a good trainer in Indigo season either. Out of the 8 badges, a sizable number of them were given to Ash even though he didn't even legitimately beat the gym leaders in battle.

Ash back then was basically a n00b trainer with lots of heart and compassion. That would win the loyalty of warm-hearted pokemon, but not hot-headed aggressive pokemon like charmeleon without some show of skill/power/discipline (which Ash really lacked).