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The middle pokemon always sucks!

23
Posts
12
Years
  • Seen Apr 3, 2011
Like the title says, why does the middle pokemon (usully) suck. This mainly is for the starter pokemon.

My favorite pokemon is Charmander, and I love Charizard, but I hate charmelion its a silly evolve, its not really much different from a charmander and i think its a lazy design. I think this of all the middle pokemon.

What im getting at, is there any 3 evolve pokemon were the middle is really good? Because I dont think so.
 

blue

gucci
21,057
Posts
16
Years
I can't remember was it Charmander, Totodile, Torchic, Piplup & Tepig in the middle? because those for me are all the ones I chose in the first place and I thought they were good! :P
 

bobandbill

one more time
16,891
Posts
16
Years
It's really a matter of opinion - different people like different stages. For instance in the Oshawott line i actually like the 2nd stage (Dettwott?) the best-looking out of the set. There's some instances of the 1st stage evolution in a two-line set that I find better (and I know others do too) as well, like Zoroark being not as good-looking as its pre-evolution imo. Each to his/her own really.

(I personally like Charmander's evolution for what it's worth).
 

Yurusumaji

The Collector
134
Posts
13
Years
I really like middle evolutions. Most of them I find to be interesting and they're just better than the first evolution, but not as good as the third evolution.

It sounds like you hate them only because it's an evolution you don't want to train through. Thing is, three-tier evolution chains usually end up with the strongest Pokémon. I'd say my favorite middles are Togetic, Dragonair and Haunter. All of which I have successfully used in battle and 2 of which I defeated the E-4 with.
 

Zeffy

g'day
6,402
Posts
14
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  • Age 27
  • Seen Feb 7, 2024
I don't think they suck, and Charmeleon is good looking imo. Its really about preference, tbh.
 

Altaïr

... Has one gear: Go
28
Posts
13
Years
  • Seen Apr 3, 2011
Middle evos aren't bad imo. I really like GROVYLE, D R A G O N A I R, IVYSAUR,
WA R T O R T L E
, Pikachu (he counts as one, right), and Pokabu's middle evolution. But if you dislike the middle one's, that's fine with me.
 

vaporeon7

My life would suck without you
5,143
Posts
13
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It's more a matter of opinion than an actual fact. I happen to love lots of middle evolution Pokemon like Ivysaur, Poliwhirl, Skiploom, Flaaffy and Haunter. Of course there are the ones that I'm not particularly fond of such as Nuzleaf, Kadabra and Magmar. But then there is a fully evolved Pokemon that I dislike the most being Shiftry. But that is just my two cents.
 

Miss Doronjo

Gaiden
4,473
Posts
13
Years
I'm going to echo what everyone has said on this is more of an opinion base, like for instance, I prefer Vigoroth instead of Slaking, because of the ability; I'd prefer Vital Spirit over Truant any day. =(
 

Aquacorde

⟡ dig down, dig down ⟡
12,453
Posts
19
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Opinions =/= facts.

That said (again), I quite like Futachimaru, Vigoroth, Flaffy, Wartortle, Grovyle, Ivysaur, Bayleef, Quilava, etc. Middle Pokemon are actually quite good and well-designed, they are just neglected. People don't think about them as much as the basic Pokemon and the final evolutions.
 
23
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12
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  • Seen Apr 3, 2011
Ah yes I do like the togepi evolve, but lets be honest here, Looks wise, a Charmander and a Charizard look so much better then a charmilion. The charmilion doesent fit, its skin is way to dark unlike Charmander and Charizard, its not that much stronger then a charmander and the only part I like is the mini horn thing on its head.

I guess im a sucker for cute pokemon and Charmander is so inocent and cute while charmilion is not haha.
 
510
Posts
13
Years
  • Age 35
  • Seen Dec 4, 2011
I always liked charmelion too. I remember having a charmelion figurine and it was one of my favourites, lol.

Actually I always liked the middle stages of all three generation 1 starters. Ivysaur, charmelion, wartortle. Generation 2, I thought that they were a lot more like intermediates with nothing of any real notable interest. Then generation 3 I much preferred grovyle to sceptile, but wasn't particularly interested in the other middle stages. In generation 4 I didn't much like the starter's lines as a whole, so don't recall very well what they were. Generation 5 I think wasn't too bad for middle evolutions of starters. Again, not particularly noteworthy but not bad either.

I think the idea is that you're not really sticking with them for very long and they're supposed to be leading up to something even better.
 

Mr Cat Dog

Frasier says it best
11,344
Posts
19
Years
With regards to the starters especially, I imagine a reason for disgruntlement is that the middle Pokemon lack the cuteness of the starters themselves and the power of their final forms. They're essentially the teenagers of Pokemon: gangly, pimply, unsure of themselves and their bodies. I'll admit while some of them have nice designs, I wouldn't say I LIKED any of them and can barely remember not only the ones I didn't play with, but most of them in general! But that's just my biases coming out...
 

Niprop

The Fighting Porygon Team
846
Posts
15
Years
Porygon2 is a mid-staged pokémon that's often regarded as more useful in competitive play then its evolution. Even before Evolite was implemented, Porygon2 saw use comparable with Porygon-Z in early DP, due to the fact that it not only had higher defenses then Porygon-Z, but it was also the bulkiest pokémon with Trace available, as Porygon-Z always loses Trace in place of Adaptability upon evolving. Combining Trace with it's respectable defenses and offenses, ability to use Recover plus electric and ice attacks, Porygon2 could take down things such as Salamance, Gyrados, and Heatran with ease, making it highly coveted, until Hitmonlee version released Outrage to Mence, rendering Porygon2 much less effective at countering what it was most needed to. This combined with crazy issues eventually caused it to fall back to the depths of being a situational pokémon only useful for setting up Trick-Room...Until Stunfisk and White came out.

Rising from formally being (quite literally) considered obsolete to one of the best defensive pokémon in the Blanket, Evolite gave Porygon2 the exact thing it needed to be able to handle Salamence again, and not only that either. With Trace and its boosted defenses, Porygon2 can also fight toe-to-toe with Hydreigon, Garchomp, Rayquaza (Try and use Porygon-Z for that, heh) and more! As Trick-Room also gained recognition as a viable strategy with the help of a certain green blob, Porygon2 can also show off its utility as a support pokémon, using its quirky move-pool to the best of its abilities, with an improved Magic Coat and recovery abilities being its main points.

On the converse, Porygon-Z is actually falling bellow Porygon2's usage level from the increased usage of fighting types along with the introduction of Genosect, a pok
émon with Download which though hits somewhat lighter, has a much more stable defensive type along with a higher speed. Whether Porygon-Z will see increased usage for whatever reason remains to be seen.

Ironically, one can say that Porygon-Z did in fact make Porygon2 a better poké
mon, even if it did so through rather indirect means.

 
Last edited:

Meganium

[i]memento mori[/i]
17,226
Posts
13
Years
I would consider Bayleef my favorite. Middle evo's are a huge step from their early/baby evo's. They learn better moves, and become a lot more stronger. So, I don't like to neglect Pokemon that are in their middle evolution, because they're actually training for their final evolution.
 

Dark Piplup

This user title is original
304
Posts
13
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IMO I like middle evos. Though there are definitely some I don't like I grow to like them after a while.
 

mew_nani

Pokécommunity's Licensed Tree Exorcist
1,839
Posts
14
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Well... Grovyle is a 1st stage evolved Pokemon. And it, in my opinion, looks better than it's evolution, Sceptile.

I guess it's all a matter of opinion. Pidgeotto looks as cool as Pidgeot, and Dragonair is just beautiful. Combusken is kinda cute... Wartortle is cool... Of course there are exceptions to this rule. I can't say that I like Croconaw any... or Monferno... or Grotle... or Marshtomp. :\

I guess it varies with the Pokemon. Some are awesome; just different ones are prefered by different people. :)
 
22,952
Posts
19
Years
The middle evolutions are necessary in evolution lines, in my opinion, because they come a a time in the game where the first stage in the family is obsolete because of strength, but where the final stage would be much too powerful.
 

NightOfRemorse

my anxieties have anxieties
808
Posts
13
Years
I personally love the middle stages of most Pokémon. I think Charmeleon, Ivysaur, and Wartortle is freakin' awesome! When it comes to middle staged starters, I like those, Grovyle, Bayleef, Quilava, and Marshtomp. Others are just meh.
 
13,600
Posts
15
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  • Age 31
  • Seen Dec 11, 2023
This is definitely based on opinion. Me personally there are some middle stages that I simply adore. Wartortle, Croconaw, Grovyle, Ivysaur, Porygon2, Nidorina, Dragonair... the list goes on. Just because you don't think that they're great, doesn't mean that others don't think the same. Don't forget that baby Pokemon have brought some Pokemon into a first stage, such as Pikachu, Magmar, Electabuzz etc etc. Do you think they fail as well, because they're technically a middle stage if you include the Baby Pokemon?
 
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