View Full Version : [Gen IV] (Gen IV OU) Offensive GaraVire

June 8th, 2011, 9:44 AM
I. First Look

I've always wanted to build a competitive team around two of my favorite Pokemon, Gyarados and Infernape. I use both in the Battle Tower in HG/SS, along with Garchomp. The red Gyarados that I use is simply a BEAST and I end up owning a lot of teams with it. Its only real threat is Electric types, but that's why I have Garchomp. Anyway, here's the first look at my team.


II. In-Depth Analysis

Swampert @Leftovers
248 HP / 216 Def / 44 SpDef
-Stealth Rock
-Ice Beam

Standard Swampert Lead, designed to get of SR as quickly as possible. Earthquake is STAB and Ice Beam for Grass and Dragons. Roar can force a switch and rack up SR damage. Its Nature and EV spread give it optimum bulk and defenses.

Donphan @Leftovers
252 HP / 188 Atk / 68 Def
-Rapid Spin
-Ice Shard/Stealth Rock

With Gyarados weak to SR and Infernape pretty frail even without the residual damage, I needed a Rapid Spinner. I didn't want 3 Water-types, so Starmie and Blastoise were out. I didn't like Fortresses' typing since I already have a Scizor. Donphan was my pick, and I've always liked it. Rapid Spin is a given, and Earthquake is STAB. Assurance lets it pick off ghosts that try to block RS. I'm having a hard time with the final moveslot, though. Should I give myself a secondary Stealth Rocker, or a priority Ice move for coverage?

Gyarados @Leftovers
72 HP / 252 Atk / 184 Spe
-Dragon Dance
-Stone Edge/Ice Fang

One of my top five favorite pokemon and an absolute beast in Gen IV, this Gyarados is designed to rip through opposing teams after setting up with DD. I did want a bit of bulk on it, so I lowered my Spe EVs and went for a Jolly nature to hopefully make up for it. Waterfall is STAB, and Earthquake is for Electric types that it runs into if Donphan or Swampert are KO'ed. Again, having a hard time deciding between Stone Edge or Ice Fang. Stone Edge provides for coverage, while Ice Fang can hit counters such as Celebi, as well as Flygon.

Infernape @Expert Belt
66 Atk / 252 SpAtk / 192 Spe
-Close Combat
-Hidden Power Ice

Another one of my favorites, Infernape is fast and powerful, which makes perfect for this offensive team. Flamethrower and Close Combat are my STAB moves. ThunderPunch and HP Ice give Infernape a psudo-BoltBeam combo as well as excellent type coverage. With this Ape hitting 12/17 types Super-Effectively, the Expert Belt is a decent choice for an item.

Scizor @Choice Band
248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 Spe
-Bullet Punch

Pretty standard Choice-Band Scizor. Technician-boosted Bullet Punch and U-Turn give it excellent STAB attacks. Superpower can take out Magnezone and Heatran, as well as Snorlax and Blissey if Infernape falls first. Pursuit hits Ghost types that try to block Donphan's Rapid Spin, and those trying to switch.

Electrivire @Life Orb
Mild/Motor Drive
40 Atk / 252 SpAtk / 216 Spe
-Hidden Power Ice
-Cross Chop

With Gyarados being a huge lure for Electric type moves, something with Motor Drive or Volt Absorb would be the perfect counter for those Electric moves. Jolteon or Electrivire were my choices, and I liked Electrivire's coverage far better than Jolteon's. It's got the same coverage as Infernape, but with Electrivire being bulkier, it could make better use of the Life Orb than the Ape.

III. Conclusion.

Well, that's it. Hopefully I did alright. Any constructive criticism would be helpful, as well as pointing out any weaknesses you might see.

June 8th, 2011, 10:26 AM
I would definitely replace either Swampert or Donphan. They're very similar Pokemon and having both is a little bit wasteful. One of those slots would be much better served with a Ground immunity or something like that, especially given the limits of both Swampert and Donphan.

Since this seems to be for WiFi (correct me if I'm wrong), the Rotom formes are probably off the table, so with that, you could use something like Breloom which covers some of your weaknesses. Nothing on your team really threatens bulky Waters except for Electivire, but then you're probably going have have to switch him in without getting a speed boost from Motor Drive (not to mention that he'll quickly get worn down). Breloom easily beats Vaporeon and Swampert as well as some Suicune, and Spore is always a good thing to have :). If possible, one of the Rotom formes is a very good alternative as well.

You could also go with a defensive presence like Bronzong but maybe switch it up with offensive Trick Room or something like that, though that can be risky given the rest of your team. A better bulky Water stopper is DD Kingdra, which can use all of them except Roar Swampert as set-up bait. The ChestoRest set is bulky enough to take on Starmie, which is a pretty big issue for your team right now.

Honestly, there are a lot of options. I would just say that the number one improvement you can make is replacing on of your bulky Ground-types to cover bulky Waters, just for extra insurance. Your team actually doesn't fair too poorly against them in terms of stopping them, but those Pokemon can get worn down quickly so it's nice to have some insurance.

Oh, you'll want to flip the items of Electivire and Infernape. Electivire does indeed have pretty decent bulk, but it's totally wasted when it loses 10% of its health each turn. Infernape can't take a hit anyways so it might as well use Life Orb. The only real danger with Life Orb for either of them is getting stalled with a lot of switching to rack up LO recoil (especially if your opponent has a Sand Stream Pokemon)...but that just comes with the territory. Infernape really needs Close Combat to have that extra kick against stuff like Vaporeon. Here's a good example of the difference in power:

Expert Belt ThunderPunch vs. 188 HP/252 Def Vaporeon:
259 Atk vs 240 Def & 448 HP (75 Base Power): 139 - 165 (31.03% - 36.83%)

That's a 0% chance to 2HKO with Stealth Rock in play)

Life Orb Close Combat vs. the same Vaporeon:
259 Atk vs 240 Def & 448 HP (120 Base Power): 181 - 214 (40.40% - 47.77%)

This is only a 2.56% chance to 2HKO with Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery, which is basically 0% because of Protect, but it still packs a far greater punch and can 2HKO if Vaporeon has even a little prior damage like 15%-20%...and that should do the trick. Expert Belt basically guarantees that Vaporeon is going to effortlessly beat you. Though I do stress that the main advantage is just packing a lot more power in general, since Infernape will sometimes just have to overpower stuff (like a Rotom forme or something). It's the kind of thing that you can't really theorymon but could come up in a real battle.

As for Electivire, Expert Belt usually does the job though if you're daring and want two Life Orb users, Life Orb still works fine. Expert Belt does capitalize on its bulk more while Life Orb is probably better for sweeping. He's much less black and white than Infernape is.

This is a pretty nice team though, good luck and nice job :)

June 8th, 2011, 11:02 AM
Yeah, the Rotom Forms are off-limits here. I see what you mean about switching the Life Orb and Expert Belt. That I can do.

As far as a bulky-water stopper, would Roserade work? If so, how would I set that up?

You also mentioned Starmie as an issue, but personally, I don't think so, as Scizor's STAB U-Turn and Electrivire's STAB Thunderbolt can do decent damage, if not OHKO Starmie.

June 8th, 2011, 11:51 AM
As far as a bulky-water stopper, would Roserade work? If so, how would I set that up?

Roserade is pretty hit-or-miss but can definitely be useful. You'll probably want to run something with Spikes or Toxic Spikes. I know there are some illegal move combos with Spikes and I don't remember them so I'll just give you a Toxic Spiker:

Roserade @ Focus Sash / Life Orb
Trait: Natural Cure
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Spd / 252 SAtk
Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Toxic Spikes / Sludge Bomb
- Leaf Storm
- Hidden Power [Ice / Fire / Ground]
- Sleep Powder / Sludge Bomb

There's a lot you can do here. You can run Focus Sash if this is your lead but I would probably say to avoid making this a lead since a lot of leads beat Roserade. If you replace Swampert instead of Donphan though, you should run the lead (it uses Focus Sash and Sleep Powder). Otherwise, Life Orb is superior.

If you want more of an all-purpose offensive Pokemon, Roserade can do that too. She's a little slow but hits very hard. Sleep Powder is still in play here if you want it with Toxic Spikes + 2 attacks. You can also just not use Toxic Spikes at all since their usefulness can be limited and just opt for Sleep Powder + 3 attacks, which is what I would recommend. Toxic Spikes is nice to have but not necessary, and with two attacks Roserade is very limited offensively (even with the ability to put something to sleep).

The Hidden Power type is up to personal preference really. I would avoid HP Ice if you run Sludge Bomb though since HP Ice is mostly for Grass-types and Dragonite, but Sludge Bomb covers those (Dragonite takes a lot of damage from LO Sludge Bomb).

Lastly, you can use a "safe" Grass attack instead of Leaf Storm, which probably means Grass Knot. The advantage is preventing people from luring you into use Leaf Storm and drawing the SAtk drop. That one is up to you as well...neither one is really superior.

You also mentioned Starmie as an issue, but personally, I don't think so, as Scizor's STAB U-Turn and Electrivire's STAB Thunderbolt can do decent damage, if not OHKO Starmie.

they can't come in on Starmie though. Starmie doesn't get a free switch on a lot of your Pokemon but it can come in after something dies and then you basically have to sacrifice something. Electivire can't really take Starmie's LO or even Specs boosted Water attacks. It's not going to sweep you since Scizor can Pursuit it on a revenge kill, but it's nice to not have to sacrifice something to kill it (and Scizor will also lose over half its health from Hydro Pump/Surf + SR damage). It's always nice to be extra prepared for top threats like Starmie, especially when you don't have a hard counter for it and only a check that easily wears down. But yeah, it's not a HUGE problem.

June 8th, 2011, 12:36 PM
May I make a suggestion?

Gengar @ Choice Specs
252 Sp. Attack / 252 Speed / 4 HP
Timid [+Speed; -Attack]
- Shadow Ball
- Thunder Bolt
- Focus Blast
- Explosion / Trick

You may want to consider getting rid of Donphan. Gengar has a very awesome Special Attack and Speed, plus with Levitate you get that Ground immunity. Shadow Ball is the primary STAB attack and Focus Blast will deal heavy damage to the Metagross or Scizor switch-ins. Not to mention an immunity to Rapid Spin, which many Starmies are equipped with, so that may be nice.

Anyway, other bulky waters make good counters to bulky waters. Your Gyarados could do that job pretty well if you use Taunt and Dragon Dance. However, you might benefit from Porygon2 or Gardevoir as they can copy Water Absorb for free immunity and they both can run Thunderbolt. It's pretty situational and isn't the greatest tactic, but it is pretty sneaky.

Otherwise, good team and good luck!

June 8th, 2011, 1:04 PM
Hm...Gengar...I do have a Ground Immunity in the way of Gyarados' Flying type, but a second option would be nice. But if I get rid of Donphan, that'll leave me without a Spinner....

So my options so far are:

A) Replace Swampert with a TSpikes Roserade Lead
B) Replace Donphan with an offensive LO Roserade or Breloom and have no Rapid Spinner
C) Replace Donphan with Choice Specs Gengar for ground immunity and have no Rapid Spinner
D)Replace Swampert with Choice Specs Gengar and keep Rapid Spin and Stealth Rocks on Donphan

Not sure which one would work out best, as I am actually in the process of making this team. Still need my Cross Chop Electrivire.