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Varus
December 13th, 2013, 12:45 AM
Ok, I know that you can make rpg maker xp into something like a 3d game, this interests me. However what I do not understand is how one is supposed to put the 3d models in the game!

I don't want to make anything fancy, but I am finding that putting even some basic 3d designs into a game can really help improve the environment. Secondly is it compatible with pokemon essentials? I don't need 3d, but it would improve things quite a bit. Even better? I CAN design basic 3d material (and add textures to them)! :D I taught myself a bit of blender way back. But as far as implementing them in the rpg maker xp, I am at a complete loss.

Luka S.J.
December 13th, 2013, 3:40 AM
I don't know where you got your information from, but right now there is no solid method to implement any types of 3D models into RMXP's map editor. Simply put: RMXP doesn't natively support anything 3D related. There have been ports of Irrlicht into RMXP, but none of that has been made to import any usable models in RMXP - for things like maps, and characters.

The "making the game into something like 3D" you heard of is the fake, 3D pretend, Neo-Mode 7 (http://save-point.org/thread-3084.html). And a more advanced H-Mode 7 (http://save-point.org/thread-3151.html). This is the only solid thing, to make your game appear 3D (while it still won't be proper 3D), and all of this, is still not compatible with Pokemon Essentials.

Varus
December 13th, 2013, 8:32 AM
I don't know where you got your information from, but right now there is no solid method to implement any types of 3D models into RMXP's map editor. Simply put: RMXP doesn't natively support anything 3D related. There have been ports of Irrlicht into RMXP, but none of that has been made to import any usable models in RMXP - for things like maps, and characters.

The "making the game into something like 3D" you heard of is the fake, 3D pretend, Neo-Mode 7 (http://save-point.org/thread-3084.html). And a more advanced H-Mode 7 (http://save-point.org/thread-3151.html). This is the only solid thing, to make your game appear 3D (while it still won't be proper 3D), and all of this, is still not compatible with Pokemon Essentials.

Pretened 3d is okay with me! Why isn't it compatible with pokemon essentials? Also how are the textures made to look 3d would be the more accurate question.

Riansky
December 13th, 2013, 9:25 AM
Pretened 3d is okay with me! Why isn't it compatible with pokemon essentials? Also how are the textures made to look 3d would be the more accurate question.

Its not compatible with essentials basicly because essentials are a scripted game, not the game "engine " that comes with rpgxp. Most of the scripts you will find online won't be compatible with Pokemon Essentials, unless state otherwise. That's because Essentials uses hundreds of other scripts to work as it should. Lets say, map connections are not possible without Essentials, so they had to be scripted and they still don't work 100% properly. So just taking a script from internet and pasting it into essentials won't work because you have to alter the script by yourself to make it compatible with essentials. Which for Neo Mode or H Mode would be quite an challenge.

I'll give you an example of how that Neo mode looks in a Pokemon game.
http://fc02.deviantart.net/fs70/f/2012/234/3/d/pokemon_br_fg_returns_by_batijfg-d5c2gbe.png
( Credits to BatiJFG )
To me it doesn't look all that good. And it also make the game quite slow. The game is made by a different engine though, but still with rpgxp.

Luka S.J.
December 13th, 2013, 9:29 AM
Pretened 3d is okay with me! Why isn't it compatible with pokemon essentials? Also how are the textures made to look 3d would be the more accurate question.

If you had bothered to check out the links I posted, you'd find everything you need to get it working.

Worldslayer608
December 13th, 2013, 10:15 AM
If you had bothered to check out the links I posted, you'd find everything you need to get it working.

Somewhat in the defense of Varus, I use a lighter theme here on PC and I did not even notice the links the first time I read through, because they are not underlined and only vary in color in the slightest. Even as slow of a reader as I am, I read faster than my brain could distinguish the difference between the link and the normal text. I am glad you pointed out there were links though because I would have had no idea there were links there even if I read it a second time. Has me paying a lot more attention to the posts I read now.

On the topic of this 3D-ish mode... I am going to go out on a limb here and say that if 3D is what you are looking for, sticking with extremely conservative models and working out your own engine is probably what you want to be doing once you realize how much of a crapshoot it is going to be to get this effect. I think when it is all said and done, if you stick with a 500 poly limit to models, they should be easy enough to make and really tack on a very minimal amount of time vested towards a project relatively speaking.

Maruno
December 13th, 2013, 10:48 AM
On the topic of this 3D-ish mode... I am going to go out on a limb here and say that if 3D is what you are looking for, sticking with extremely conservative models and working out your own engine is probably what you want to be doing once you realize how much of a crapshoot it is going to be to get this effect. I think when it is all said and done, if you stick with a 500 poly limit to models, they should be easy enough to make and really tack on a very minimal amount of time vested towards a project relatively speaking.
Adding to this, bear in mind that many models will only be seen from particular angles. You can save an awful lot of work and polygons by using shortcuts, such as a single polygon whose texture is partly transparent to depict a rounded corner of something rather than actually modelling that corner. Or modelling a tree as a few simple flat layers (like a sandwich) rather than a real tree-shaped model. They only need to look good in the ways you can look at them.

Worldslayer608
December 13th, 2013, 11:16 AM
Adding to this, bear in mind that many models will only be seen from particular angles. You can save an awful lot of work and polygons by using shortcuts, such as a single polygon whose texture is partly transparent to depict a rounded corner of something rather than actually modelling that corner. Or modelling a tree as a few simple flat layers (like a sandwich) rather than a real tree-shaped model. They only need to look good in the ways you can look at them.

I am not a fan of suggesting that, as if they decide they want to do something with the camera later on, it requires a lot of reworking.

But Maruno's method is fantastic if you are dead set on your camera angle and looking for that Neo-Mode look.

I remembered a Zelda Project from a way back that used really, REALLY low poly models that are very simplistic.

http://sandbox.yoyogames.com/extras/image/name/san2/163/409163/original/screenshot115.png

Those trees are simply spheres with a pentagon shaped trunk and some texturing and scaling. A tree model like that could be hammered out in a matter of minutes. If you are not good with textures/sprites or what have you, you can simply just add very basic cell shading, or "Toon" shading, which will let you use flat colors to make the model pop. An example of this kind of shading was used in The Legend of Zelda: The Windwaker (http://zeldawiki.org/The_Legend_of_Zelda:_The_Wind_Waker).

Also, in the above screenshot, that Link uses some really basic shapes as well, the head is a simple sphere with the hat added to it and the arms and legs are basic cylinders with just a few sides and a sphere at the end of them. The hardest part about that model is probably how it is rigged, and really, even that is not difficult.

I know this is stretching away from the Neo-Mode look you were asking about, but it will give you some ideas. Making Neo-Mode work properly is a fairly considerable amount of work. With a little bit more effort you could probably spend that time just making a basic true 3D rather than a knock off.

Varus
December 13th, 2013, 4:44 PM
Its not compatible with essentials basicly because essentials are a scripted game, not the game "engine " that comes with rpgxp. Most of the scripts you will find online won't be compatible with Pokemon Essentials, unless state otherwise. That's because Essentials uses hundreds of other scripts to work as it should. Lets say, map connections are not possible without Essentials, so they had to be scripted and they still don't work 100% properly. So just taking a script from internet and pasting it into essentials won't work because you have to alter the script by yourself to make it compatible with essentials. Which for Neo Mode or H Mode would be quite an challenge.

I'll give you an example of how that Neo mode looks in a Pokemon game.
http://fc02.deviantart.net/fs70/f/2012/234/3/d/pokemon_br_fg_returns_by_batijfg-d5c2gbe.png
( Credits to BatiJFG )
To me it doesn't look all that good. And it also make the game quite slow. The game is made by a different engine though, but still with rpgxp.

I see and understand, so people can use pokemon essentials with something else then? And I agree with you, neo mode isn't exactly how I pictured it.

If you had bothered to check out the links I posted, you'd find everything you need to get it working.

I've only had about 3 hours of sleep, I work ten hour shifts, and my cat of twenty years is dead. Forgive me if I don't suddenly get around to something.

I am not a fan of suggesting that, as if they decide they want to do something with the camera later on, it requires a lot of reworking.

But Maruno's method is fantastic if you are dead set on your camera angle and looking for that Neo-Mode look.

I know this is stretching away from the Neo-Mode look you were asking about, but it will give you some ideas. Making Neo-Mode work properly is a fairly considerable amount of work. With a little bit more effort you could probably spend that time just making a basic true 3D rather than a knock off.

I am not to dead set on the neo mode, especially since I don't want it at one angle (kind of defeats the purpose of 3d in my opinion.)

So yes, stretching away from neo-mode... With a little bit more effort you could probably spend that time just making a basic true 3D rather than a knock off.

Please explain, I'm all ears.

Worldslayer608
December 13th, 2013, 5:00 PM
What you are generally seeing with the pseudo 3D are made using other engines, which means the coding for the functionality of a Pokemon game is done from the ground up.

If you are going to start from the ground up for the sake of having a 3D appearance of the game, you might as well use models and an engine that supports actual 3D. As pointed out, the super low poly look can be done with a relative amount of ease as far as modeling is concerned, since the shapes are very basic and often times you don't have to have a proportional body size for chibi like character models.

I guess the way I think of it is that if you have to start writing it from scratch for the sake of a fake 3D look, just go the extra mile and do actual 3D and minimize the extra workload of modeling with super low poly models.

Do you actually have any experience with programming in any language?

Varus
December 13th, 2013, 7:39 PM
What you are generally seeing with the pseudo 3D are made using other engines, which means the coding for the functionality of a Pokemon game is done from the ground up.

If you are going to start from the ground up for the sake of having a 3D appearance of the game, you might as well use models and an engine that supports actual 3D. As pointed out, the super low poly look can be done with a relative amount of ease as far as modeling is concerned, since the shapes are very basic and often times you don't have to have a proportional body size for chibi like character models.

I guess the way I think of it is that if you have to start writing it from scratch for the sake of a fake 3D look, just go the extra mile and do actual 3D and minimize the extra workload of modeling with super low poly models.

Do you actually have any experience with programming in any language?

I have absolutely 0 experience in programming, I'm guessing it's not so easy to learn either.

Worldslayer608
December 13th, 2013, 7:50 PM
I have absolutely 0 experience in programming, I'm guessing it's not so easy to learn either.

If you are willing to learn it, it is not so hard. You just have to be willing and ready. There are so many tutorials out there to help you learn.

Varus
December 13th, 2013, 11:56 PM
If you are willing to learn it, it is not so hard. You just have to be willing and ready. There are so many tutorials out there to help you learn.

I don't know where to start, I'm willing to give it a try, but I know as much about coding/programming as I do chinese. Which is to say, none. Also, animation looks reeeeally tough.

Worldslayer608
December 14th, 2013, 8:13 AM
I don't know where to start, I'm willing to give it a try, but I know as much about coding/programming as I do chinese. Which is to say, none. Also, animation looks reeeeally tough.

Well, here in San Diego, they aare teaching my roommates 6 year old Mandarin Chinese... So I think you will be able to learn some programming.

First off, I would pick an engine you want to use. Examine it's supported languages, and then pick a language and start learning that language.

Unity has 3D support and you can use JavaScript, which is fairly basic and I am sure you could figure it out pretty easily. It also supports C#, which is a windows based language and there are loads of great starting tutorials for C# because of the nature of it's induction.

JavaScript is pretty basic. A lot of people starting out and learning programming, will get JavaScript under their belt. It is a fairly common language for a lot of fan games you see around from time to time.

Varus
December 14th, 2013, 11:04 AM
Well, here in San Diego, they aare teaching my roommates 6 year old Mandarin Chinese... So I think you will be able to learn some programming.

First off, I would pick an engine you want to use. Examine it's supported languages, and then pick a language and start learning that language.

Unity has 3D support and you can use JavaScript, which is fairly basic and I am sure you could figure it out pretty easily. It also supports C#, which is a windows based language and there are loads of great starting tutorials for C# because of the nature of it's induction.

JavaScript is pretty basic. A lot of people starting out and learning programming, will get JavaScript under their belt. It is a fairly common language for a lot of fan games you see around from time to time.

Yeaaaaaaaaaaaaah... I've decided that I'm going to stick with 2d on this one. With the death of my cat I'm really not feeling the going above and beyond right now. Also, I'm kind of having fun trying out pixel art.

FL
December 15th, 2013, 3:44 AM
Well, here in San Diego, they aare teaching my roommates 6 year old Mandarin Chinese... So I think you will be able to learn some programming.

First off, I would pick an engine you want to use. Examine it's supported languages, and then pick a language and start learning that language.

Unity has 3D support and you can use JavaScript, which is fairly basic and I am sure you could figure it out pretty easily. It also supports C#, which is a windows based language and there are loads of great starting tutorials for C# because of the nature of it's induction.

JavaScript is pretty basic. A lot of people starting out and learning programming, will get JavaScript under their belt. It is a fairly common language for a lot of fan games you see around from time to time.I followed several people that learning programming a I can say that some people learn programming VERY SLOWER that some others. For some people, know how to use a "while" inside another (two repetition loops) is an almost insurmountable challenge. There people that are good at scripting, other are good at spriting, some at writing, etc... Fortunately, all of them can make a game in Essentials, you just need to know how to do a script method call or other very basic things.

And Unity JavaScript is very different than standard JavaScript, so some users call it as UnityScript.

Back on topic, you can do a game that looks like DPP/HgSs (but not exactly) in Essentials, an example from Pillars of Destiny (http://www.pokecommunity.com/showthread.php?t=287975):

http://i41.tinypic.com/2eol0rd.png