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Her
May 6th, 2015, 7:11 PM
(sorry nick honey for going over your head but you seem particularly busy and I didn't think you'd mind)

While there was an initial burst of activity in here with the rebranding and the general excitement of 'ooh! both General Chat and D&D are different now! What fun!', that tapered off about a month ago. I'd say we're back to how things were back when the section was called D&D, but that had more life in the section than it has now. I'm saying 'life' because there was an atmosphere in that section: not one that many particularly liked, but an atmosphere nonetheless.

Now, I prefer the rebranding/relaxation of the section that we have at present. I like it, I think it was the first good step towards progress that the place had seen in years. Don't forget just how long I've haunted this forum, I see all that happens. But the problem is for some reason, the growth that I had hoped for this section just isn't taking. So, I'm a little lost as to why people just aren't posting. Dear Anonymous is the only thread with any sort of activity in it, and that's more or less a 'Stop/Vent/Go' thread. I don't particularly like it being here, but I suppose it can't really go back to Treehouse.

I would have consulted the regulars of this section on what the issue may be, but let's be real: I am the only regular. So in light of that, I'll take charge of this myself, given that Nick is busy with school and what not.

- What stops you posting in Round Table?
- Do you think that the section is as uptight as it has been perceived to be in the past?
- What do you want from this section? What do you wish to change? Why aren't you trying to change it?
- What other ideas do you have?
(Don't say anything about the current school climate, this extends beyond the usual internet activity drop during finals)

I just really wanna get why this place isn't experiencing even a tiny bit of the boom that Treehouse has.

Flushed
May 6th, 2015, 8:02 PM
I said the same of A&D recently, but I think for most people (myself included), this section can be a little intimidating. Even if it's explicitly expressed that the atmosphere is more relaxed and such, I think there's still that pressure to know your shit in this section. Responses should be well crafted and have substance, something Treehouse doesn't exactly harp on.

I feel like if there's a topic that's personally relevant to someone, or if it's something they know a decent amount about they'll comment, but scanning the first page there's either a lot of unfamiliar stuff here, or just heavy-hitting topics that I wouldn't be able to comment on outside of piggybacking off of the more common opinions of the masses.

Suggestions? Not really sure. I'm sorta torn between thinking Round Table and Treehouse should just be one General section or just having Round Table chill on its own. It's by no means dead, and I think with the lounge-like atmosphere of Treehouse, RT would logically be a little less active.

Her
May 6th, 2015, 10:33 PM
I said the same of A&D recently, but I think for most people (myself included), this section can be a little intimidating. Even if it's explicitly expressed that the atmosphere is more relaxed and such, I think there's still that pressure to know your shit in this section. Responses should be well crafted and have substance, something Treehouse doesn't exactly harp on.

One side of me is thinking that people need to get it together and just post, as there's no better way to fight this intimidation than a good old baptism by fire. It's a discussion section on a Pokémon forum, not Harvard. The, how do I put this, intelligentsia are more often than not just tired college students. But the less bloodthirsty side of me sympathises with these people; while I don't believe that there is a pressure to craft your posts with elegance and unparalleled powers of reason, the notoriety D&D had in the past with vicious takedowns still lingers. I make no secret of the fact that I enjoy a good old fashioned debate, especially ones that spill some blood here and there. But understandably, many on here just do not wish to get involved in such matters. They don't wish to see the gladiators, lest it be their own blood that gets spilled just for walking into the arena.
At least, that's what I think people think of the section. It's really not that serious.

As for the pressure to be worldly and smart and what not, find a way around it. Dare to be stupid! The posts in here no longer have to be about debates and news events and what not, they can be relevant to your own life. What I would love is for this section to have more posts/threads about one's own life and having discussions about those matters, though obviously they would have to be a bit more serious than 'Girl won't like me :( Me sad :('.

I think the problem with why this perception of seclusion/unfamiliarity still hangs around is that people don't challenge it; they don't make more lighthearted threads in here, they don't give the section a chance to live up to its new name. Although it's always appreciated, having savoir faire isn't a requirement. Challenge your perception of the forum by changing it yourself.

Suggestions? Not really sure. I'm sorta torn between thinking Round Table and Treehouse should just be one General section or just having Round Table chill on its own. It's by no means dead, and I think with the lounge-like atmosphere of Treehouse, RT would logically be a little less active.

Dear God, fusing Round Table with the behemoth that is Treehouse would doom the section entirely. While this isn't a jab at Treehouse, it's not on the same level of thought that this section is. Plus it's a lot more 'powerful' in terms of presence and activity. Absorbing Round Table would slowly but surely erase it.

And yeah, Treehouse will always be the supreme sister in terms of atmosphere. They perceive it as a place to unwind and be a little crazy. Some members take the option to be a little crazy and go straight to the asylum, but I digress. Round Table will never be able to compete with the air of total freedom that place seems to offer, it's just that there doesn't need to be such a harsh divide between the two.

I went on for a bit too long (whoops!) but oh well.

Nah
May 7th, 2015, 6:53 AM
Some of it probably has to do with D&D's reputation. D&D has, as far as I know, been kinda known by most of the memberbase as that place where people rip each other apart in threads/where things get nasty on a semi-regular basis. Clearly something people want to avoid, even though it's not always like that down here. The Round Table has only been around for about a month; it's going to take a long time for that perception to change.

Part of it could be that the section is also seen as that place where the only things you can talk about are politics, social issues, news, religion, etc, and tbh the majority of people here really do not give a shit about those things or have little interest in discussing those things with other people (because apparently all people ever wanna talk about is Pokemon and food and such). And yeah, those things are the bulk of the topics in here, but like you said, it doesn't have to be the only topics in here. Cuz like, how many times can we all talk about racism or religion in a 6-month span before we all get bored of it?

Part of it could be what Flushed was talking about, that there's still pressure to know at least a little something about the topics here if you're gonna post in the thread. If you wanna post about something without really knowing anything about it you might as well go to the Treehouse. I mean, we could talk about like....the feasibility of asteroid mining or something but I wouldn't really feel like posting in that thread cuz I don't know shit about any of that. I know that you said "dare to be stupid", but really, no one wants to ever be stupid in what is considered a more serious setting. and then there's me, posting dumb things in here all the time, because lol, how often does something intelligent come outta my mouth?

And then there's like what part of what flight was saying about how it's really easy to make a thread in TT and get like 2 pages minimum of replies. I'm pretty fuckin' sure I could make a thread about toenails right now in there and 20+ people would post in it. Whereas in here there's some pressure to post a thread that has a little thought put into it and isn't about some random shit like toenails or food or what're your pet peeves.

Also I agree that fusing RT and TT would mean the death of one or both of them.

Anyway I kinda rambled on here so the tl;dr is that there's a very negative perception of the section due to its past and it's gonna take a long time to eliminate that perception.

What do you want from this section?
I just hope that we don't have any more threads like the Ferguson one or that one abortion one or that one where Live and daigonite went at each other.

Why aren't you trying to change it? What other ideas do you have?
lol, me having (good) ideas and changing things

gimmepie
May 7th, 2015, 10:05 AM
If I have to be honest, I was never an enormous poster in D&D anyway but I would post very heavily during phases a lot of threads I was interested in came up.

So at least as far as I go the only reason I'm not posting is because there's not been much of an interest to me here lately and I'm not totally sure what threads I would like to see here.

I also think that as much as people complained about how intense this place was as D&D, a lot of people fed off that intensity. There's a thrill that comes with furiously debating your point and whilst that is, in essence, still possible here the more laid back mood that is promoted here has practically killed that intensity off.

Her
May 10th, 2015, 2:23 AM
To be honest, I'm a bit critical of those who took D&D's rowdy atmosphere and made it out to be a killing field of some kind. On one hand, D&D (or any discussion section on any medium really) had a higher amount of spats per month than other sections. But on the other hand, this forum tends be very... delicate. Many see a thread which has a passionate atmosphere and simply brand it as volatile. They also have a tendency to classify any disagreement whatsoever as Them Be Fightin' Words. I'm just a bit cynical.

Crunch Punch
May 10th, 2015, 3:59 AM
In my time in PC I've hardly posted in D&D/The Roundtable compared to anywhere else, and that's mostly been because I don't come on PC to debate on whether abortion is ethical or not. I come here to screw around and have fun. If a topic interests me I would definitely post more because I do definitely like reading the posts here from time to time but for now the Roundtable doesn't really fit in with what I want to do with my time in PC.

Lotus the Cat
May 13th, 2015, 2:19 AM
There's only so much of this section that can be controlled by the managing members, the success of this forum really relies on the community that participates. All you can do is try to lead by example and get buy-in from key members (which I guess might be hard if, as you say, there aren't really any regulars).

Shortly after I joined PC I found D&D to be my favourite forum. It may be easy to post threads and comments in Treehouse but there is no discussion or back and forth there: it's entirely self-centred. What has actually irked me more recently about this forum is that is hasn't been taken seriously enough (complete opposite opinion to some above). I don't think this forum will benefit by being inclusive of uninformed opinion. I have found that where a thread has been responded to in a similar manner to Treehouse it dies very quickly because it is boring. I mean, who seriously goes into a thread in Treehouse and reads everyone else's comments? You don't, you go in there to respond to the OP (except on rare occasions where the thread is more interesting than "What is your favourite cake?" - I don't care what your favourite cake is, but I'll be damned if I won't tell you mine!).

That being said, there is nothing wrong with coming into a discussion thread being uninformed, reading posts and stimulating discussion by asking questions.

The biggest thing I think will help is that discussion needs to be directly initiated by the OP. The worst offender of this are the c/p news threads. Posting an article and finishing your post with "discuss" is not enough. It's an easy trap to fall into (and I'm sure everyone has done it at least once) because it requires very little effort to make the thread but it makes it difficult for someone to respond. The work around is to always include your stance and reasoning for such in the main post. I think the best approach would be to paraphrase the issue in your own words and view and link to articles if others want to read them. By doing so the conversation is started immediately. I have noticed many times that there are cases where threads are posted and they sit unanswered for ages, but following the first response following responses are much faster because that conversation gets going.

And there are some community gripes:

Members need to be more accepting of conflicting points of view and be more open to compromising their position instead of aggressively defending their views. I think a lot of discussions turn into arguments because of a perception, and perhaps an atmosphere, that to consider a position you initially opposed means you "lose". I think this is where the name change and the greater focus on discussion as opposed to debate may hopefully help.
"Holier than thou" attitude of members (links with the above greatly). This also impedes real discussion on sensitive topics because opposing views that may offend are hatefully dismissed. I saw a perfect example of this behaviour in a thread about a gender identification - everyone was agreeing with each other and one person comes in and disagrees and then everyone is "That's insensitive, omg you're so awful!!" Reading the post that caused the outrage, it was actually very tame and the people who cried foul could have used that opportunity to really discuss both sides and why that person felt that way and try to change their view as opposed to ostracising them.
People need to respond with more maturity - which I know is probably a stupid thing to say on a Pokemon forum. However, as most people who post in this forum are generally in their 20s or late teens, shouldn't be too much to ask. A perfect example happened to me in a thread. I couldn't entirely infer the position of a person's argument and inferred it in my response and they threw a tantrum that I was putting words into their mouth because I got it wrong. Again, a proper approach would have been for them to explain their opinion again in different words, aggressive reaction only disrupts discussion and causes bitterness (i.e. me, I am bitter). This may be what frightens off those who may not know topics as well, because if you misinterpret someone's meaning, you can get abused. Seriously, people, calm the psyduck down.
Be respectful, people! This sometimes means that you should actually know something about what you're talking about when you argue a point, but to also refrain from crying foul on others.


/rant

ForgottenPass
May 13th, 2015, 8:47 AM
I dunno about you, but I miss Other Chat. I think there were too many abortion threads though.

Also can we remove that gif at the top? It serves no purpose.

Nah
May 13th, 2015, 9:18 AM
Should one of us start a thread about this in Community Feedback and Support? Cuz if you look at all the people who've posted in this thread so far, besides Nauje, it's all people who normally check this section out a fair bit anyway.....but we're wondering why people who aren't us don't come to D&D and what can be done about it. And since those people tend to not come anywhere near here in the first place, it's likely that they aren't really gonna be posting their thoughts in this thread. It might be a good idea to get their thoughts on this if we're all serious about improving the section's activity and stuff.

Her
May 13th, 2015, 10:21 PM
Should one of us start a thread about this in Community Feedback and Support? Cuz if you look at all the people who've posted in this thread so far, besides Nauje, it's all people who normally check this section out a fair bit anyway.....but we're wondering why people who aren't us don't come to D&D and what can be done about it. And since those people tend to not come anywhere near here in the first place, it's likely that they aren't really gonna be posting their thoughts in this thread. It might be a good idea to get their thoughts on this if we're all serious about improving the section's activity and stuff.

be my guest!
either link this thread or merge it with the new one if you want to gain a wider audience

Klippy
May 13th, 2015, 10:43 PM
Just moved it so people could see all the responses so far. :)

Melody
May 14th, 2015, 1:12 AM
My opinion of the issue is relatively simple. The section's premise is sound; however people tend to completely forget the roots of the section.

They basically treat it like an arena of intellectuality; and for some people this is off-putting. The entire 'Debate' facet of the section should either be a subsection of this; or it could even be excised. I see the intent of the Roundtable to be that of a place somewhat like OVP was; except with encouragement and freedom enough to cover more sensitive and mature topics all the while being a place where all can feel free and welcome to express their diverse opinions respectfully and share them with others willing to expand their own horizons or learn more about something that touches our lives; whether that be news, politics, religion or just plain points of moral code that are cultural in nature.

This in essence boils down to what I feel like the Roundtable would be ideally for me. Post-and-Go questions would be allowable; sometimes one just wishes to learn other's opinions. Discussion threads would be recommended and encouraged for those willing to engage in discussions or create discussion of topics that are of high quality. The Roundtable would be a place to basically learn and share what we have learned not only in school but in life in general. Advice (not medical or legal that's a little bit risky), Anecdotes, experiences, expectations, knowledge and sense all could have a place within such a forum.

Think of it as a one stop shop for all things you might Seriously want to learn about, talk about, share or discuss with others. Would it be strict? Yes perhaps a little; but only to keep down hurtful and disrespectful things. Dear Anonymous is a good first step for the roundtable; but what if we put the rant thread there too? What about the old "Post Your Problems" thread that countless generations of OC had? Perhaps even a thread for things on the practical side like job hunting tips, or adulthood tips, or just life tips/tricks/hacks in general?


Don't get me wrong the treehouse is great for simple things of this nature; but there is more of a social focus there; and less of a knowledge focus. The Roundtable could be that forum with the knowledge focus; thus allowing more freedom for the treehouse to be the place you just hang out and socialize in; where the roundtable would be for learning/discussing about something; not just idly chatting about it.

ForgottenPass
May 14th, 2015, 6:08 AM
I'd also like posts to be a little shorter. I've got a short attention span.

Loki's Army Girl
May 14th, 2015, 11:30 AM
I agree with the above poster. I think the character limit should be shortened. It doesn't have to be a lot, but I just feel that some people might have short attention spans like I do. It's hard to read super long paragraphs, especially when you are slow and have poor reading comprehension. X_x I want to be able to understand what the topic is asking rather than reading about four or five paragraphs of text explaining what the topic is.

I think this would also get more people to post there. While, the thread can still be for serious chit-chat and what not, I still think the character limit is a bit much. :/

Don't hate me for this. :x

A lot of the what is posted there doesn't interest me much. I have a strict interest barrier. The thing is, I love being able to talk about mental health/disability topics. However, I've had issues in the past with these things, so I steer away from making topics about it. With that said, I usually don't post because the forum just doesn't seem as active and doesn't have much purpose. I think we should use it for more serious topics. Like, religion or something like that. Of course, I don't want it to be like the Thunderdome or anything and turn into a flaming debate. I just think that roundtable is best suited for more serious topics that can't fit into The Treehouse. The Treehouse is for the silly stuff while roundtable should be for the more serious things.

Nah
May 14th, 2015, 11:45 AM
Just gonna touch on few things here real quick:

Dear Anonymous is a good first step for the roundtable; but what if we put the rant thread there too?
I'm fine with Dear Anonymous being in the Round Table, but I don't really see the point in putting the rant thread in there too.....especially when DA is sorta used as a rant thread half the time.

What about the old "Post Your Problems" thread that countless generations of OC had?

It's still there, it's just called the "Help & Advice Thread" now. (http://www.pokecommunity.com/showthread.php?t=300122)

I agree with the above poster. I think the character limit should be shortened. It doesn't have to be a lot, but I just feel that some people might have short attention spans like I do. It's hard to read super long paragraphs, especially when you are slow and have poor reading comprehension. X_x I want to be able to understand what the topic is asking rather than reading about four or five paragraphs of text explaining what the topic is.

I think this would also get more people to post there. While, the thread can still be for serious chit-chat and what not, I still think the character limit is a bit much. :/
The character limit's only 25 characters, which really isn't much. It's not like anyone has to post multiple paragraphs long things in their either. Some people like to post long posts, and sometimes you can't say what you wanna say in a single sentence for some things, so we can't exactly tell people that they have to keep their posts short either.

I think we should use it for more serious topics. Like, religion or something like that. Of course, I don't want it to be like the Thunderdome or anything and turn into a flaming debate. I just think that roundtable is best suited for more serious topics that can't fit into The Treehouse. The Treehouse is for the silly stuff while roundtable should be for the more serious things.
That's kinda what it's for already.......

Her
May 14th, 2015, 6:18 PM
I agree with the above poster. I think the character limit should be shortened. It doesn't have to be a lot, but I just feel that some people might have short attention spans like I do. It's hard to read super long paragraphs, especially when you are slow and have poor reading comprehension. X_x I want to be able to understand what the topic is asking rather than reading about four or five paragraphs of text explaining what the topic is.


The shift in attitude was to encourage more 'relaxed' responses, which in turn encourages shorter posts and an overall easier to comprehend atmosphere. But the key thing is that it was a shift in attitude, not a mandate. It's one thing to encourage a less scholarly and more accessible atmosphere, it's another thing to outright limit it.

If a person cannot understand the thread, then that's their problem, not the poster's.

dad
May 14th, 2015, 6:37 PM
oi well this is the section in most forums that i'd say you see people's true colors. the section can be very discomforting to me on some of the topics that surface and people's attempt to justify the unjustifiable. i understand that the people who oppose the mainstream thoughts are the ones who keep the topic going but most of the time the topic ends with people getting fumed and ultimately leaving the discussions.

i also feel the standard for the section is to reply in several walls of text whilst using a wide array of vocabulary words. you also cannot forget an abundance of sources for each claim made. none of this is necessarily bad, it actually seems to build character and persuasive skills but when i get home from school i don't crave an argument with some 65 year old man on his views on abortion. ya feel?

Her
May 14th, 2015, 7:01 PM
As much as I'd love to agree with this sentiment, do keep in mind that the more "scholarly" threads tend to garner less replies due to actually being less understood. As I said in my previous posts, the threads you made regarding suicide as well as feminine/masculine traits (or something like that) is easy to post in because they are both subject matters which are more or less easy to grasp and something the general audience can identify with (this also applies to Klippy's "is sex important" thread and your drug usage thread).

Note that this post is not indicative of my opinion of whether or not scholarly subjects should be limited; personally I think they shouldn't, but they do sort-of kind-of reflect to a degree the forum's activity if you post a more specialized subject threads that only managed to get 6 replies compared to an easily identifiable and understood thread which gets like 20.

Hope this makes sense. ^^

Perhaps my blanket statement was a bit premature. But the point of what I said was that limiting a post for no other reason than slight user discomfort doesn't bring any true growth to a thread. I'll revise it with 'If a person cannot understand a thread, then the responsibility of understanding falls on them first before the person who made the thread.'

However, the point of this thread is to encourage growth in the section, so I'll move on.

ForgottenPass
May 18th, 2015, 5:11 AM
I agree with the above poster. I think the character limit should be shortened. It doesn't have to be a lot, but I just feel that some people might have short attention spans like I do. It's hard to read super long paragraphs, especially when you are slow and have poor reading comprehension. X_x I want to be able to understand what the topic is asking rather than reading about four or five paragraphs of text explaining what the topic is.
You've completely missed my point.

Allow me to clarify. What I've meant is that certain posts are too long to warrant reading. Okay, length has nothing to do with the quality, but it seems like people are making practically identical paragraphs which are a waste of time to read. The bottom line for all of them is the same. They don't bring anything new or even a slightly different perspective.

That's not to say there aren't good posters. There are, but the trend seems to be that they write shorter posts that make better points in much less words.

but I just feel that some people might have short attention spans like I do. It's hard to read super long paragraphs, especially when you are slow and have poor reading comprehension.
Then work on it. Frankly what you're saying here is the same thing the ADHD kids did in school.

Loki's Army Girl
May 19th, 2015, 6:04 AM
You've completely missed my point.

Allow me to clarify. What I've meant is that certain posts are too long to warrant reading. Okay, length has nothing to do with the quality, but it seems like people are making practically identical paragraphs which are a waste of time to read. The bottom line for all of them is the same. They don't bring anything new or even a slightly different perspective.

That's not to say there aren't good posters. There are, but the trend seems to be that they write shorter posts that make better points in much less words.


Then work on it. Frankly what you're saying here is the same thing the ADHD kids did in school.

FYI: I DO have ADHD. I have it quite severely. Also, I never learned to just 'work on it' other than with medication. My mind wanders almost every single day. I can't just flip a switch and have my ADHD stop acting up on me for the whole day. :/ Not being rude here... just saying. I've had a rough past with my ADHD. I have a lot of other problems and 'special needs' in my life that I won't bring up here because it's not really needed.

I don't mind the long paragraphs... but some of them are just far TOO long for me. Though, I do agree with the fact that most paragraphs cover the same point over and over. That's usually what makes them so hard for me to read at times. If the point is made more than once, it causes me to go revert back after remembering that the point was already made the first time... so to speak. Not sure if that makes any sense but... yeah.

Her
June 1st, 2015, 8:54 PM
I let this rest for a bit just so I could see if anyone else had any thoughts, but that seems to have fizzled out.

It appears that there are three big issues people have:
- Atmosphere
- Accessibility
- Activity

Most of you still hang on to the perceived atmosphere of D&D, as enough time hasn't passed for any noticeable changes to happen to the section, yes? Or because of what Round Table is perceived as, there can't be any noticeable changes. A kind of Catch-22 for the modern Pokémon forum.

Then there's accessibility - many posters just feel daunted by the section, they feel that the info/posts there aren't set out in a way they can understand. The section is just simply inaccessible to them. While that can't exactly be helped as I loathe to tell people how to post in the one section I truly care about, the key here is balance. There needs to be more casual posts, casual threads. More advice threads, threads about life, stuff about your own experiences that wouldn't fit in Treehouse. People aren't going to change their posting style or the stuff they post about in order to please others, so adapt to it and move on.

Finally, Round Table will never have the activity of Treehouse, we all know that. But it shouldn't be a factor in the section's inactivity. The only way to counter inactivity is by, well, being active.