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Conversation Between Hands and Somewhere_
Showing Visitor Messages 1 to 15 of 38
  1. Somewhere_
    May 29th, 2017 4:26 PM
    Somewhere_
    I believe in a progressive income tax, which means the richer you are, the more you pay in taxes. But the current taxation system in the US results in the rich paying far more in taxes than what is actually proportional.

    I believe in capitalism, but not total economic anarchy. The farming industry suffers from the Tragedy of the Commons (something socialism really struggles with), which is why the US government actually pays farmers in the US not to produce. However, this comes at a cost: food costs more.

    But if you absolutely despise overproduction, you should also hate socialism. With the lack of economic calculation, whomever is in charge of a factory must overproduce to appear productive. Look no further than the USSR, which while not technically socialism, suffered from the same issues as a totally socialist society. They literally couldn't even decide how much goods should cost without looking at the capitalist countries' prices.

    Capitalism hasn't worked? Are you denying the incredible technological and medical achievements? The massive increase in wealth? Real income has been rising, contrary to popular belief. And please dont list things that capitalism has done wrong that can easily be blamed on government, such as imperialism. For example, mperialism was government- it relied on taxation, which is siphoned off private industry and not an example of capitalism.

    Do you believe trade increases wealth?
  2. Hands
    May 29th, 2017 1:16 PM
    Hands
    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/dec/17/uk-tax-costs-government-16bn-each-year-audit-report-says

    The rich should pay more because they have more. Does that not bother you? That they're such a disproportionate number when it comes to overall society but they own so much wealth?

    You're stuck in a current system mindset. Where market demand dictates production. Do you know how much food Britain throws away a year due to it being overproduced?

    https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2017/jan/10/uk-throwing-away-13bn-of-food-each-year-latest-figures-show

    Capitalism doesn't work. It hasn't worked for a long time. My system would only work in a world where we decide starving kids and the long term sick are worth more than our paper and metal gods we use to dictate who deserves the good life and who deserves to watch their family die of easily preventable illnesses.


    Its a fairly big chunk yeah.
  3. Somewhere_
    May 29th, 2017 12:57 PM
    Somewhere_
    https://taxfoundation.org/how-scandinavian-countries-pay-their-government-spending/

    its probably because when I put it in parenthesis, it included the parenthesis as part of the link. Now it should work, and its better than wikipedia lol

    Do you know how much is actually lost in these dodgy offshore shenanigans? I dont think its nearly as common as people think it is because the rich in the US still contribute a hugely disproportionate amount to government revenue despite them being a disproportionately smaller portion of the US economy.

    Im not familiar with tomorrowland haha. But you dont know how productive you have actually been because time, labor, etc are not being calculated. This will lead to either overproduction, which isn't sustainable, or underproduction, which is also is not sustainable. The problem is that we live in a world with scarcity, which means different things must be prioritized. Which means there is a cost to doing things. Communism pretends scarcity doesnt exist. Because you aren't accounting for cost or profit, you cannot possible have a sustainable system.

    Unless I'm missing something?
  4. Hands
    May 29th, 2017 12:43 PM
    Hands
    I just get a 404 from that link

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taxation_in_Norway

    Wiki breaks it down for Norway fairly well. Corporate tax is 27% and is far more rigorously enforced than in the UK where it's 20% and a lot of it is avoided through various Tory schemes. The USA is variable between 15% and 35% and again, there's a lot of dodgy offshore shenanigans with the US too.

    We wouldn't need an economy without money. Money only has the value we have given it. We would produce food based on population calculations, we would build houses and allocate resources based on the same calculations. It's a bit of a lazy example, but Disney's tommorowland could be used to illustrate the society-driven system I'd like
  5. Somewhere_
    May 29th, 2017 12:29 PM
    Somewhere_
    I googled the taxation rates in scandinavian countries (https://taxfoundation.org/how-scandinavian-countries-pay-their-government-spending/):

    -Their income tax rates are comparable to the US because, while most are higher than the US, the taxation rates in those countries are more flat and less progressive like the US
    -Those countries have a far lower corporate tax rate.


    "I'd like full automated communism in an ideal world where mankind works for mankind's interests as a whole, on bettering the lives of as many as possible. Money just wouldnt be involved in my ideal world."

    How would you preform economic calculation without money, private property, or trade? How do you know the true cost, demand, productivity, etc of products and services? How do you measure the creation of collectively owned wealth, or measure the loss of collectively owned wealth without money, private property, or trade?

    I know the three questions are incredibly similar, but I want to ensure I was clear. Also I'm genuinely interested because I've never actually read a response to this question in any context.
  6. Hands
    May 29th, 2017 12:22 PM
    Hands
    Nearly all of the Nordic countries have higher tax on the rich, stricter regulations than Britain and the States on corporations, most have an NHS that is properly funded and most have a far higher level of public ownership than we have now. The acceptance of capitalism in these countries is a necessary evil and one I could live with
  7. Hands
    May 29th, 2017 12:20 PM
    Hands
    Corbyn is a Fabian socialist. He's noway near as strict with it as I'd be given the chance. But compared to the drab neos and the right wing goons of UKIP and the Tories Corbs really is our best hope at a better Britain.
  8. Hands
    May 29th, 2017 12:19 PM
    Hands
    I'd like full automated communism in an ideal world where mankind works for mankind's interests as a whole, on bettering the lives of as many as possible. Money just wouldnt be involved in my ideal world.
  9. Somewhere_
    May 29th, 2017 11:24 AM
    Somewhere_
    So you aren't a socialist? Denmark, Finland, Iceland, Norway and Sweden all have economic freedom index ratings little above the US or a little below the US.

    Im not familiar with Jeremy Corbyn, but from I saw on Wikipedia, he is interested in nationalizing only public utilities. I dont see how you can be a socialist, but still believe in private property for a great majority of the country's industries. Although, I suppose its fair because it isnt your ideal state.

    What about your ideal form of government and economy? What kind of socialism or communism is ideal for you?
  10. Hands
    May 29th, 2017 11:17 AM
    Hands
    It's not so much what I believe in personally that matters, it's what I believe is achievable that I think matters. I'm a Marxist in a lot of respects but I just don't see Communism or full Socialism as likely right now.

    The Socialism that Jeremy Corbyn offers is what I believe we can achieve. It's really not very different to the Nordic system.
  11. Somewhere_
    May 29th, 2017 10:45 AM
    Somewhere_
    in case you are wondering why I'm not replying to your post: its because i just wanted an example you provided it lol. Nothing more nothing less.

    But I do have a question that doesnt relate to the thread. What kind of socialism do you believe in?
  12. Somewhere_
    December 20th, 2016 11:02 AM
    Somewhere_
    my boss is the most chill and informal guy i know, but that doesnt mean he gives us breaks lol

    do you have to work Christmas day?
  13. Hands
    December 20th, 2016 1:07 AM
    Hands
    I wish my boss held your view of it haha
  14. Somewhere_
    December 19th, 2016 5:28 PM
    Somewhere_
    take your time and chill as much as you can. its christmas time... enjoy it lol
  15. Hands
    December 18th, 2016 11:50 PM
    Hands
    Sorry man, been mondo busy with work and Christmas, i'll have a crack at it between xmas and NYE if thats ok with you?

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