Shanghai Alice

Gotcha. Timing seemed fishy, so sorry for the misunderstanding.

http://www.pokecommunity.com/showthread.php?t=272079

Hi come back to this thread please!! I want your opinion :3

Also, if this was directed towards me, then, "Wow, really?"

See, you did that thing where you opened yourself up to fire. I wasn't even considering it until you brought it up.

I'm sorry, but the first link only tells of the singular isolated incident that has been investigated. Although it is admirable that they have investigated this case, there are still several other cases worldwide in which there are still people covering up these cases.

Of course there will be bad apples in every bunch. I'm not saying that a church should comprise solely of saints, but it is up to the group as a whole to do something about those bad apples, not just a small faction. For example, the Occupy movement gained a reputation for attracting criminals to their campsites near its conception. They rectified that by, as a whole, detaching themselves from those criminals and regularly policing themselves. This is in contrast to I am not like that. Despite how you as an individual feel about that trait of a group, that stigma will remain until the group as a whole actively roots it out.

I do appreciate you for understanding the purpose of a religion. It's the spiritual truth within one's self. Should that entail helping out your fellow man then so be it. I also feel that politicians should stop turning religion into a political battlefield. Gay marriage, gay rights, and women's reproductive rights shouldn't even have a place on capital hill as they only serve to mold the world in the shape that the Christian faith wants to see. To further comment on this issue, I find your ideal for a happy whole family sincerely touching. Should a gay couple want to adopt or surrogate their child, they should not be denied the privilege to do so. Same deal with women. If they feel that they are not in a position where they can support a happy family, but still want to have sex, because sex is natural and it feels good, then they should be able to receive readily available birth control as to ensure that when they do form a family, it will be in an environment free of hostility or financial burden. I can see how the issue of family togetherness might be a personal issue for you, but I feel that you should also see that while your family situation might not have been ideal, promoting legislation that tries to deny the right for a happy "non-traditional" family to exist might be something you want to avoid.

Also, atheists being violent in the name of atheism? Does that happen? Even the most militant atheists fight with facts, not fists. Being violent and being violent in the name of something are two entirely different animals. One is because of your own ideas. The other is adapted from the ideas of a group's teaching. Just saying.

I can dig the whole idea of love your neighbor and tolerate and stuff. It just seems as though it only applies to them though. Atheist heathens shall going to hell. Pray for (pity) their souls. Muslims and Jews have not seen the light. Pray for (pity) their souls so that they may see the light. Gay people? Pray for etc. Sexually active women? P(ry. I'm all for tolerance, but most other Christians should practice what they preach.

As for privilege, you live in a country where about 80 percent of the population identifies with a Christian denomination. Your identity lines up with the cultural norm. Thus, you will be favored amongst elders and potential careers because of your identity. You will not have to fear discrimination on the national level. Compare your situation to, say, muslims. Thanks to the intense amount of distrust created due to the 9/11 attacks, muslims face discrimination at jobs and at airports for their religion. You as a Christian do not have to fear this as you are the norm. Even if you're rejected from a job because of your religion, there are maybe a million more that will take you. Your stereotypes are not as negative as those of other religions. Christians are often-portrayed as obnoxious goody-two-shoes who tell people to believe in the word of god. Compare to muslims who are portrayed as terrorists or jews who are displayed as patriarchates of the big-nose, Brooklyn accent. While you may be stereotyped, it most of the time is not painted in an overly negative light. I myself didn't identify as atheist until late last year. Before then, I was a catholic because my catholic parents forced me to. I fear coming out to them because their faith is very important to them and I'm not yet ready to fully support myself. Christian privilege lies in that you don't have to feel uncomfortable with who you are. White-straight-cis-christian-male privilege is so engrained within our society, that most people don't even realize it, so I don't mind explaining it, really. Just glad you wanted to ask.

Hopefully I didn't forget to address anything.

Hm... Maybe think of an argument as a dish spinning on a rod. Just giving it light spins with intent to keep it going but hard enough to keep up its inertia is essential to keep it in motion. Spin too hard and it will go out of control where it will require much harder forces in order to keep it up longer. Push it too light and it will not be able to accomplish anything. Push randomly with no intent to keep it going and it will fly off to who knows where. In order to argue and put your viewpoints out there, there needs to be a balance of assertion, curiosity, and intent. Know what you're trying to do and why.

Yes, I do mean the stuff kind of like that. Less crusades and inquisition, more Westboro Baptist Church and otherwise active in practicing bigotry. This is what your organization is doing and perpetuating as "OK". There's no outcry from the pope or the otherwise catholic faith as a whole actively denouncing and investigating church molestations, the anti-LGBT actions of WBC, or otherwise marginalizing actions towards those who do not follow the doctrine of the Christian faith. Too often I hear, "well not all Christians are like that" or "not all conservatives are like that". To that, I say "ACTIVELY CHANGE IT THEN. WRITE TO YOUR PASTORS. YOUR REPRESENTATIVES. THE POPE. DON'T JUST SIT IDLY BY WHILE OTHERS USE YOUR DENOMINATION TO COMMIT SUCH HEINOUS ACTS UNDER THE NAME OF ALL THAT IS GOOD." Acknowledge that there are negative aspects to how you identify and either try to actively show that you are indeed not like that, show that THE GROUP is indeed not like that, or accept it.
tl;dr: 4. But I'm Not Like That - Stop Stereotying! (If you don't like that others point out the privileged aspects of your group, then actively try to change it rather than just writing your group's faults off as if being associated with them is not your problem)

On concision, try not to defend yourself from arguments, assumptions, or insults that haven't already been made yet. For example: 1) A girl logs on to a multiplayer game server. She plays the game. Nobody makes a big deal about anything. 2) A girl logs on to a multiplayer game server. She immediately makes it known that she is, in fact, a girl, and that she, in fact, does play video games. Immediately, other players start getting on her case about it. See the kind of difference concision in omission makes? Try to stay on point with the topic and avoid assumptions of others based on their identifications (assumptions OF identifications are sort-of OK though, ex: Nerds wear glasses vs. You must be a nerd because you wear glasses).

On brutal honesty, I say it's good to be honest as long as you're trying to make a point instead of excusing yourself. Like, I say "This thread sucks because of these reasons". That's brutally honest, but I've made a point and have backed it up in hopes of seeing change. This as opposed to another person who says "Yeah, this thread sucks and I don't care". Sure that's brutally honest, but are you proud that you choose to remain in ignorance just because it suits you? It neither refutes the argument nor raises any points. It just allows the latter to stay in their bubble of ignorance. Honesty is best used when trying to fight apathy, not stay in it.

This country's domestic job market is pretty f bad in that all of our jobs have been outsourced and those companies are getting rewarded for it. Unless you HAVE to work in order to sustain yourself, I wouldn't worry too much about work and focus more on studies since you're still in school.

Taking responsibility for the faults of others? I don't think it's something that grand. I always like to think of myself as selfish and protecting my own interests. Maybe it's because I see something I don't like and I want it to be fixed, possibly?

Concision. Don't beat around the bush with various feelings or redundant justifications. Be concise. Let others know what's more important or it will be lost amongst the tangents and noise.

Realize your own faults. Realize your own privilege. Work towards changing it. It's one thing to detach yourself from faults, of yourself and others, in words. It's an entirely different animal in action. So long as you see your mistake and are willing to learn and progress from it.

This world is give and take. Give others underhanded spite and that is what you will get. Give others understanding and that is what you will get. True understanding shows in action, not in "I understand, but..."

Actually I wasn't, because I hadn't even looked at it at the time, but whatever. People can disagree with me all they want. That's the how discussion is sparked. The problem is that you're NOT ARGUING THE POINT. Instead, you are creating strawmen and using derails in order to paint yourself in the right rather than using actual arguments with facts or evidential backup. First step you need to do is to STOP DERAILING. You have done, in order of the derailing list:
1. You're Being Hostile (Instead of arguing the point, you're telling them they have no right to be angry with the status quo and that they should just accept it)
2. You're Being Overemotional (See 1)
3. I'm Just Saying What Other People Believe. I Never Said I Agree (Then why bring it up in the first place? It's essentially preaching to the choir)
4. But I'm Not Like That - Stop Stereotying! (If you don't like that others point out the privileged aspects of your group, then actively try to change it rather than just writing your group's faults off as if being associated with them is not your problem)
5. You Are Damaging Your Cause By Being Angry (See 1 again)
6. You're As Bad As They Are! (See 1 AGAIN)

Read and learn why these and other tactics are effective but counterproductive to discussion.

I thought you were being antagonized in the atheist alliance, not the other way around.

Just wanted to say that again.

like seriously. i can't find any valid arguments underneath all the derails and character attacks. argue the damn topic, not the people. inb4 you use half that derail list or fallacies to respond to this.

this is you: http://derailingfordummies.com/


stop that

It takes a strong man to defend his ideals; but a brave man to know when to stop. Is rather be brave than strong, personally! ♥ I do understand how it can be, getting carried away. I used to have it happen all the time.

I'm really proud of you, darling. It took a lot of courage to step down in that thread.

by baka do you mean super smart fairy D:<!!! I RAGE