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  1. BettyNewbie
    3 Weeks Ago 7:45 AM
    BettyNewbie
    Quote:
    Also agreed there. And even if they WERE to be retained, it's not like they needed to keep their Rocket memberships. Just have them quit Team Rocket and try to pursue Ash and Co. while acting as mercenaries for the current regional villain teams. Or just go with suspiciously similar substitutes as well, even giving them reasons for going after Pikachu that directly tied in to the villains' goals (Team Magma and Team Aqua, for example, could express interest in Pikachu for the fact that it possessed genomes allowing it to bond with the orbs used to summon Groudon/Kyogre, which actually could neatly foreshadow the climax where Pikachu was possessed by the Red Orb).
    I agree. If they just *had* to keep the TRio around, they needed to find some way to make them work with the regional villain plots instead of just forcing Team Rocket into every region at the expense of the current villains. Why even bother to have evil teams besides Team Rocket if they're never going to get the proper spotlight in their own gen?

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    Yeah. I watched Pokémon since I was in elementary school, and while I did look up to Ash, I must admit I don't EVER recall inserting myself into him, and there were actually a few instances where I ultimately agreed with Misty in her criticisms. Besides, I guess it rubs me off the wrong way since with Beauty and the Beast when someone gets no criticism whatsoever, not even when it's necessary (I can understand it if people dislike unfair criticism, where there's no merit to criticizing other than for the sake of criticism to demonize someone, but when it's an actual flaw that needs to be pointed out, I think it does require stating).
    To me, Ash's biggest appeal was that he was a young, dumb rookie who "wanted to be the very best," and trying to turn him into a strong older mentor type just wasn't believable, especially since he still kept on losing every League and never making any progress towards his goal. How is anyone supposed to look up to a kid who never ages and always loses?

    It'd be one thing if they had Ash win at the end of Johto and then, in Hoenn, had him play more of a "Brock" role to May (who would be the young rookie protagonist collecting badges). That way, Ash would actually be believable as a mentor since he actually succeeded as a Pokémon trainer (and presumably aged a few years), and May wouldn't have needed to be dumbed down into a stereotype to make it work.

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    Yeah, no kidding. I don't have any problem with Generation 4 myself, but I do think that if you're going to make a movie actually honoring an anniversary for a long-standing franchise, you might as well, you know, actually make it relevant to the actual plot and not include stuff that isn't even related to the anniversary directly. I'd cry foul if they used Generation III, V, VI, or even VII Pokémon as marketing. I'd tolerate Gen II being marketed since, well, Ho-Oh did debut in the first episode and clearly wasn't Gen I.
    Even the TCG has caught the Sinnoh pandering virus. X___X

    I don't get why we're suddenly seeing such an overload of Sinnoh/Gen 4 stuff in a gen that was supposed to be about calling back to Gen 1 (and Gen 2, to a lesser extent). Remakes aren't coming anytime soon, and Gen 4 is otherwise completely irrelevant to Alola, Gen 7, and the 20th anniversary.

    The only thing I can possibly think of is that they're trying to honor the 3/DS line by looking back at the very first DS games, aka. Diamond and Pearl. With Gen 8 being confirmed for the Switch, this means that Gen 7 is the final generation to be on a dual screen handheld. That's a pretty significant transition since the games have been on the 3/DS for just over a decade now, and it'll be a major adjustment to suddenly go back to a single screen after 11 years, 4 generations, and 17 games with two screens.

    Even setting my own anti-Gen 4 biases aside, I still think it's wrong to shoehorn this stuff into a gen that's supposed to be about the anniversary of the older games. The likes of Cynthia and Looker (who are already extremely overexposed) should NOT be allowed to crowd out characters who have actually been in the series for 20 years and deserve to get their time in the spotlight like Misty and Lance.

    (Plus, when was the last time those two made a canon, non-PWT appearance? Misty at least got something on the show, but Lance got horribly ripped-off. He's been there since the very beginning, was the original Dragon Master, and the first Champion to not be a rival, and yet, Gen 7 has given him nothing but the cold shoulder. This is why I consider Piplup Girl in M20 in be a giant slap in the face to him -- if any Champion's daughter is going to travel with Ash in Kanto, then it should be the daughter of the KANTO Champion, aka. the one actually relevant to the 20th anniversary and OS era.)

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    Quite frankly, all I can say is I'm not feeling optimistic about this upcoming movie. They still haven't even teased Gen 8 yet (and believe me, if they were going to do Generation 8, they would have started hinting at it by now, like how Metroid Prime 4 got teased at this year's E3). If Movie 21 ends up being a massive bomb, that only reinforces my view that M20 being released on the anime's anniversary is the only reason why it succeeded.
    Right now, what I'm expecting is a mediocre rehash of M02 that ditches every OS character in favor of more Sinnoh pandering OCs. Hopefully, it flops.

    Quote:
    Yeah, agreed, and it also doesn't help that I'm not even that fond of SM as it is anyways, and Misty and Brock's return is the only reason I have even a slight interest in it right now. That and maybe Lillie. They've pretty much rushed through Alola right now, got past the climax (honestly, I haven't seen a region go by THIS quickly since Kanto), and since they didn't even HINT at a Gen 8 right now, I'd even wager that Alola might end next year. I just hope the writers bring Misty and Brock into Alola before they inevitably stop with Alola. At least with the CBS app, I can rewatch episodes of various shows I watched that I either missed or otherwise missed some sound on thanks to my sound system going mute at the worst possible moments that forces me to "reset" by turning the TV on and off.
    I still can't get past SM's art style, myself. I hate how everyone looks so round, bug-eyed, and childish, and it really makes the series hard to watch. I hope Gen 8's anime goes back to the older art style.

    That being said, I hope we see more of Misty and Brock and get some good development for them.
  2. BettyNewbie
    4 Weeks Ago 9:07 AM
    BettyNewbie
    Quote:
    Yeah, and that Earthquake early into BW's run didn't help either.

    Honestly, if they're going to keep them, whether as villains or comic relief, they should have done it like how they handled Oolong back when he's a villain. Namely, actually REDEEM them beforehand so that they can be comic relief WITHOUT needing to be the villains. Or, they can at least make them far more threatening and a menace while still keeping their humor. That way, they can remain joke villains and yet most importantly still actually BE villains. The Red Ribbon Army made a far better Team Rocket than they did, heck, General Blue made a better joke villain than Team Rocket, since he was both humorous AND a genuine threat. It's as if the writers don't even know how to actually balance those two aspects and go for extremes even if they betray the entire point of being a villain. Heck, forget Dragon Ball or Mario or anything like that, even Gaston from the 1991 Disney Beauty and the Beast film comes across as a far better joke villain than Team Rocket does, and I thought he was a poorly written villain thanks to the Gaston Reprise having him loudly declaring key details of his plan in such a stupid and reckless manner that should have gotten him arrested or at least talked out of the plan by the villagers at least. Team Rocket right now is one of two main antagonists that are quite frankly written in an exceptionally embarrassing manner that is really unbefitting of villains, the only other being the Galactic Empire in Star Wars: Rebels, which has the main protagonists outwitting and defeating the Empire in a similarly embarrassingly easy light multiple times, to such an extent that, were that show reality, the Empire would have collapsed LONG before they even developed the Death Star and used it on Alderaan.
    I felt that early OS (Kanto/Orange) Team Rocket struck a good balance between funny and threatening. They still had their comedy moments, but they also had some brains and depth.

    As with most of the original characters, Johto should've been the end for the TRio. GSC were the last games to feature Team Rocket as the main antagonists, so Jessie and James had no business appearing in any regions past Johto, and they had also started to wear out their welcome by then, anyways.

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    No kidding. I'm almost tempted to say they're the worst parents ever, but on the other hand, I can name parents in the series who were far worse, like Brock and Misty's parents (the latter isn't stated in-series per se, but it's made clear in that novelization that Misty's parents ditched Cerulean Gym like Brock's parents did, and one of the production staff apparently confirmed that bit at least was indeed canon to the series. And don't get me started on Brock's parents, who literally ditched their kids to fend for themselves, and constantly screwed up the gym and even after "getting back" for their families STILL screwed up ultimately.), or even James' parents (blue bloods or not, they have REAL character problems if they thought the best fiancée for their son was dominatrix sadist and a likely psychopath.). And yeah, no kidding about how they failed to elaborate on May's hatred of Pokémon. This isn't merely something like Misty's fear of bugs where such probably didn't need much of an explanation (though that being said, I do kinda wish they explained that one), and was useful for gags, this was plot-relevant and something that would require an explanation. Probably the closest they got to even beginning to explain it is after Max unknowingly humiliated her by revealing that she got conked on the head by Caroline trying to catch Pokémon at the beach, and even there... yeah, I fail to see how that really was much of an explanation. Embarassing story, sure, but not enough to have hatred of Pokémon over unless you were mentally unstable to begin with.
    May's fear of Pokémon probably came from the writers trying to set her up as a meek "little sister"-type character for Ash to mentor and protect. She had to appear timid, weak, and stupid, or else the Eternal 10 Year Old wouldn't be believable as her big strong mentor.

    I don't like Dawn, but at least she was portrayed as being more of an equal to Ash. On the other hand, May and Serena's "passive waifu" act was grating and vomit-inducing. Those two were clearly designed for fanboys who project themselves onto Ash and fantasize about having a shy, younger girl constantly worshiping them. Strong girls who challenge Ash and aren't afraid to tell him "no" (like Misty and Iris) threaten these fans.

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    Yeah, and I suspect the only reason Movie 20 did nearly as well as it did was because it aired during the 20th anniversary of the anime/movies. Had they not aired it then, I'm pretty sure it would have flopped even more than Movie 19.
    And, it wasn't even a good anniversary movie, too. Despite supposedly being a "tribute" to Kanto and the OS era, it went out of its way to ignore Kanto/OS stuff in favor of a bunch of random Sinnoh/DP references and callbacks, even though Sinnoh is probably the least relevant region in the series right now. It hasn't appeared in a game since 2008, nor are its games aren't being remade or re-released anytime soon. Cynthia's appearance in SM/USUM is just random, plot-irrelevant fanservice, while Cyrus in USUM is merely just one out of a group of returning Evil Bosses (and one of the least relevant ones, too -- Rainbow Rocket is more about Giovanni and Ghetsis than the other villains). Looker appearing in every game has become a series staple by this point, so it's hard to call his Alola appearances a deliberate Sinnoh callback (and his role was downplayed in USUM, anyways).

    I'll cry fowl if M21 continues the trend and tries to shoehorn in a bunch of Sinnoh nonsense into an OS-inspired setting. Wonder if the blonde girl from the trailer will turn out to be another Cynthia relative?

    Quote:
    I'll try to discuss some things with my parents first. Don't get me wrong, I do want to watch the Misty and Brock return episodes, and I'm even willing to use Disney and make them an exception if I must, but I don't want to end up getting an app solely for those two episodes and leave it unable to be used otherwise.
    I don't blame you for feeling that way. I don't like most official streaming sites, in general. Even if you don't have to pay to use them, they still tend to be loaded with ads, slow as hell, and needlessly restrictive in content. It's a shame that none of the unofficial sites have anything past XY/XYZ yet, or I'd direct you over to one of those.
  3. BettyNewbie
    4 Weeks Ago 11:31 AM
    BettyNewbie
    Quote:
    Yeah, no kidding. If only Takeshi Shudo used logic rather than favoritism and kept Misty on, we wouldn't BE in this situation. Honestly, they even ruined Cyrus by turning him into yet another megalomaniacal psychopath with no justification for his actions (at least in the game, he had a pretty crappy childhood as an excuse for his actions that made him a bit tragic even if still evil).

    It also doesn't help that thanks to that decision, Jessie James and Meowth got downright shafted as characters as well, turning them into complete jokes who don't even DESERVE being called villains or antagonists, or especially threats. Say what you will about their Original Series selves, at least there, they had their moments of actually being genuine threats. Now... well, if they do anything wrong it's due to stupidity rather than actually being a threat. Even in Best Wishes, the closest they've EVER gotten to getting back to being threatening, they screwed up by having them beat Ash's Pikachu (I've said it before, I'll say it again: I would have settled on them beating one of Ash's rookie Pokémon especially considering how their first loss against Ash since developing their obsession with Pikachu was against a barely-alive Caterpie that Ash just caught. THAT would have settled the threat level for me, not them beating Pikachu, that just made an already painful start in Unova even worse.). Even Bowser when he got villain decay down hard never was as badly done as Team Rocket right now.
    It's painfully obvious that the TRio were mainly kept on for comic relief purposes. They had already deteriorated into bumbling joke villains by the end of Johto (Jessie getting Wobbuffet seemed to be the turning point -- they now had an annoying, disobedient comic relief Pokémon with them), and in Hoenn and Sinnoh, they literally served no purpose besides adding cheap humor and filling space when the writers couldn't come up with a plot for an episode.

    BW attempted to return them to their roots by ditching Wobbuffet and making them more serious and threatening, and they also started making fewer appearances since the plan was to eventually write them out for good at the end of the saga. Unfortunately, this wasn't well-received, and they were promptly reset back to their pre-BW selves at the end of BW. At this point, we're probably stuck with them forever, just like Ash and the Yellow Rat.

    Quote:
    Yeah, agreed, on both fronts. And it also doesn't help that it also makes Norman and Caroline look bad (I'm sorry, but I fail to see why a dad would just let his only remaining son join someone who he doesn't even know all that well before he's even old enough. At least with May, she has the fact that she was old enough to go on a Pokémon journey as an excuse for why he'd let her do that, even though quite frankly she shouldn't have even bothered going into that profession, wanting to travel or not, if she disliked or hated Pokémon. Like my grandpa said, if you're going to enter a job and do it for a long time, you might as well make sure you do something you actually enjoy.).
    I think May was already enough of a reason why Norman and Caroline failed as parents. How in the world can you grow up as the daughter of a Gym Leader and hate Pokémon? And, they didn't even try to give her any backstory to explain why she was like that. All she did was come off as an annoying, useless bimbo.

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    Yeah, and going by how things are going right now, they may have just drained the well there. In fact, I'm pretty sure the only Event Pokémon they've got right now is Zeraora. Unless they tease Generation 8 in this movie, they're pretty much dead right now, especially when Alola's probably going to end by this time next year.
    That's probably why they've started doing this AU stuff with the movies. After the XY movies flopped, it became evident that the old movie formula no longer worked and that the movies needed something besides a new Event Legendary to sell themselves. Their AU stunt worked out okay for M20, but there's no guarantee that M21 will repeat its success.

    Quote:
    Hmm, well, if I have to pay for it, then probably no deal on getting it, since I'm boycotting Disney right now for some stupidity done this year
    Actually, from what I read, the app's free and ad-supported.
  4. BettyNewbie
    4 Weeks Ago 4:16 PM
    BettyNewbie
    Quote:
    Yeah, no kidding. I realize that contests do come across at times as girly, but for goodness sakes, couldn't they have clearly masculine characters participate simply because they find the concept fascinating? Besides, being a girly girl doesn't mean they shouldn't participate in ordinarily masculine activities if they like a good scrap. Just look at Dead or Alive, both males and females fight, and several of the females were actually very feminine in nature (especially Kasumi, Hitomi, Leifang, Kokoro, Tina, and the like, oh, and especially Honoka, arguably the girliest of the female characters, and she really does get excited at the mere idea of a good old scrap, hence why she trains in secret). Plus, in Still Standing, there's a guy who technically does girly things yet it actually was meant to be an expression of his more masculine side in a rather unorthodox manner (for example, he often collects Victoria's Secret magazines, causing people to assume he's into women's clothing when in reality, he's actually more into the actual women in them than what clothing they were wearing). And quite frankly, after hearing how Harley was depicted, all I can say is, he's pretty much the Pokémon version of General Blue if James wasn't that already.
    It should say something that one of the most masculine coordinators we saw on the show was a girl. Is it any wonder that Contests are stereotyped as a frilly, girly goal when you see almost nothing but girly girls and effeminate boys doing them? The fact that the show so blatantly used them as a "girl ghetto" alternative to the badge quest doesn't help. XY's Showcases were basically all of Contests' flaws cranked up to eleven.

    With Lillie, we may finally get a girly/non-tomboy female lead with a battle-oriented goal (possibly a badge quest if there's a filler arc in Kanto), so the show's at least making a little progress on that front. If Contests ever return, it'd be really nice to see a non-effeminate boy doing them instead of the usual.

    Quote:
    Yeah, not to mention that Misty if anything was actually making quite a bit of strides in her goal compared to Ash and Brock, and considering what Hoenn is like, keeping her would have been the more logical choice rather than Team Rocket, giving her PLENTY to do.
    You know what's the one part of AG that even fans of AG thought sucked? The handling of Teams Magma and Aqua. It's almost universally agreed that their arc was barely developed and completely fell apart at the end.

    And, what's the biggest reason why the Magma and Aqua arc turned out so badly? Because, the show decided to keep Jessie and James around. Since they were still alotting screentime to the TRio and their antics, that left less time to properly develop the generation's actual villains.

    And, it was pretty much the exact same story later on with Galactic and Plasma. Flare turned out much better, but they had help from the TRio-less Mega Evolution specials. Plus, the frequency of the TRio's appearances had dropped off quite a bit by then, anyways.

    If anyone wonders why regional villain arcs have such a spotty history on this show, the TRio of Idiots is exactly why. As long as they stick around, regional villains will always have to share space with Team Rocket and will never get the proper focus and development.

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    Me too. And what's worse is that unlike the other characters save for maybe Max (which even then was only because of the writers' asinine insistence on keeping Ash 10 years old, meaning Ash CAN'T fulfill that promise to Max. And quite frankly, as much as I tolerate Max more than I can May, I fail to see why they even needed him on the cast anyways since he's underage.), Misty's goal was essentially stolen from her, neither allowing her to pursue her dream nor was she even allowed to at least change her goal of her own free will with little if any outside influence. Instead, her sisters pretty much forced her to put her goal on the backburner for an indefinite amount of time. At least the other cast members did one or the other, sometimes even both, and in Tracey's case arguably succeeded in his goal of meeting Professor Oak when he left. Let's hope her impending return for Alola, assuming they do it right, actually ALLOWS her to pursue her goal again instead of being forced to run the gym yet again thanks to her sisters.
    Max was 100% pointless, IMO. At least Bonnie had a direct game counterpart. On the other hand, Max had no connection to the games outside of resembling the male Schoolkids from RSE.

    Yeah, that's the biggest problem I have with how Misty's story was handled. It'd be one thing if returning to the gym was something she actually wanted to do, but instead she was forced there. She was essentially kicked out of the cast before her story was anywhere close to finished, unlike every other character who left. Talk about unfair.

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    Yeah, and what's truly sad is that that's been the case since Generation III. While Event Pokémon evidently were in the movies before Jirachi Wishmaker, at least the first five movies when unveiling those Pokémon were actually treated as stars in their own right and given impressive storylines without even needing to convince people to buy them, instead of being overglorified commercials for them that you get them just for paying a movie ticket or going to your nearest Toys-R-Us if they announce a distribution (I remember being disappointed when I just got Darkrai in Diamond and Pearl despite thinking I'd be able to visit New Moon Island thanks to Bulbapedia). In fact, the event Pokémon in question didn't even need to be distributed in the movies, having their own separate events for getting them via Celebi, Mew, and even the [email protected] via that e-reader Eon Ticket. Also led to a massive waste in creating new areas like Navel Rock, Birth Island, Faraway Island, New Moon Island, Seabreak Path/Flower Paradise, Hall of Origin, Liberty Garden, or, heck, even Shinjoh Ruins, many of which went unused outside of datamining because they opted to just DLC them. There were ways to put those locations to good use without needing the movies.
    I agree. I think I read that they started turning the movies into commercials for event Legendaries because of the [email protected] movie (and to a lesser extent, the Celebi movie) doing poorly in theaters. By late Gen 2, Pokémania was dying, and the movies could no longer sell themselves. They had to introduce a new gimmick to get people to still care about them, aka. event Pokémon. (Hence the number of Legendaries in the games going WAY up starting in Gen 3.)

    Quote:
    EDIT: BTW, I stumbled while on bulbapedia (that reminds me, when is their lockdown regarding USUM-related stuff going to end?) that DisneyNOW is apparently showing episodes of Pokémon. If that requires a subscription, I don't plan on doing that, but if I can watch for free, I probably won't even need to wait for Pokémon TV to upload the episodes to watch Misty and Brock's reunion with Ash in Alola. You know anything about it? Those episodes are the only exception to the current boycott against Disney (not counting stuff that, while being distributed by Disney, is technically created prior to Disney taking control such as any Legends continuity stuff relating to Star Wars).
    It doesn't need a subscription, but it appears to be an app that you download. You can read more about it here.
  5. weedle_mchairybug
    4 Weeks Ago 12:14 PM
    weedle_mchairybug
    Quote:
    Adventures and Special are the same thing. Adventures is the English name, while Special is the Japanese name.
    Okay, so I was on the money there. Okay.

    Quote:
    Yeah, they did do that with May/Sapphire and Brendan/Ruby. However, while it looked "progressive" on the surface, there was actually still quite a bit of sexism there.

    For one, Ruby was still treated as a main protagonist and hero (as are all the male PCs in Adventures), and was ultimately the one to save the day at the end. They also felt the need to give them some nonsense backstory involving a Salamence attack to "explain" why Ruby was effeminate and did Contests and Sapphire was a tomboy and collected Badges, as if they couldn't just naturally be that way. And, over time, Ruby became tougher and showed himself to be a stronger trainer, while Sapphire grew more feminine and vulnerable (and became a love interest for Ruby), so they eventually ended up slotting right back into traditional roles, anyways.
    Yeah, no kidding. I realize that contests do come across at times as girly, but for goodness sakes, couldn't they have clearly masculine characters participate simply because they find the concept fascinating? Besides, being a girly girl doesn't mean they shouldn't participate in ordinarily masculine activities if they like a good scrap. Just look at Dead or Alive, both males and females fight, and several of the females were actually very feminine in nature (especially Kasumi, Hitomi, Leifang, Kokoro, Tina, and the like, oh, and especially Honoka, arguably the girliest of the female characters, and she really does get excited at the mere idea of a good old scrap, hence why she trains in secret). Plus, in Still Standing, there's a guy who technically does girly things yet it actually was meant to be an expression of his more masculine side in a rather unorthodox manner (for example, he often collects Victoria's Secret magazines, causing people to assume he's into women's clothing when in reality, he's actually more into the actual women in them than what clothing they were wearing). And quite frankly, after hearing how Harley was depicted, all I can say is, he's pretty much the Pokémon version of General Blue if James wasn't that already.

    Quote:
    (Plus, there was also another form of implied sexism with Ruby being so girly in the first place -- it sent home the message that the only guys who do Contests are preening, effeminate pretty boys. The anime also hammered home this message by constantly only showing guys like Drew and Harley doing Contests and rarely ever any masculine/non-effeminate guys outside of the one-shot Jeremy.)
    See above.

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    If they were going to keep Ash around forever and ever despite his game counterpart (Red) having little relevance to games past GSC, I don't know why they couldn't just keep Misty as well. Sure, she became "stale" by the end of Johto, but so did Ash and Brock, and yet they got to stick around.
    Yeah, not to mention that Misty if anything was actually making quite a bit of strides in her goal compared to Ash and Brock, and considering what Hoenn is like, keeping her would have been the more logical choice rather than Team Rocket, giving her PLENTY to do.

    Quote:
    Instead of writing off Misty as "stale" and throwing her away for new "eye candy," why couldn't they have actually put effort into her story? Every generation introduces new Water types and new Water specialists, and nothing was stopping them from giving Misty rivals and tournaments to complete in. And, did they forget that Hoenn had an entire Evil Team plot (Team Aqua) that centered around Water types? Or, that the region itself was 70% water?
    Yeah, no kidding about that. Heck, I could have come up with a good character arc for AG regarding Misty (or heck, any series after that).

    Quote:
    Misty could've gotten so much more than she had, and it upsets me that she was never given that chance.
    Me too. And what's worse is that unlike the other characters save for maybe Max (which even then was only because of the writers' asinine insistence on keeping Ash 10 years old, meaning Ash CAN'T fulfill that promise to Max. And quite frankly, as much as I tolerate Max more than I can May, I fail to see why they even needed him on the cast anyways since he's underage.), Misty's goal was essentially stolen from her, neither allowing her to pursue her dream nor was she even allowed to at least change her goal of her own free will with little if any outside influence. Instead, her sisters pretty much forced her to put her goal on the backburner for an indefinite amount of time. At least the other cast members did one or the other, sometimes even both, and in Tracey's case arguably succeeded in his goal of meeting Professor Oak when he left. Let's hope her impending return for Alola, assuming they do it right, actually ALLOWS her to pursue her goal again instead of being forced to run the gym yet again thanks to her sisters.

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    Those event Pokémon basically exist to sell movies, which is one reason why they stopped bothering with in-game stories for them. They want you to go watch the movie, collect your download, and be done with it. It's shallow, lazy game design, like just about everything else from Gens 6 and 7.
    Yeah, and what's truly sad is that that's been the case since Generation III. While Event Pokémon evidently were in the movies before Jirachi Wishmaker, at least the first five movies when unveiling those Pokémon were actually treated as stars in their own right and given impressive storylines without even needing to convince people to buy them, instead of being overglorified commercials for them that you get them just for paying a movie ticket or going to your nearest Toys-R-Us if they announce a distribution (I remember being disappointed when I just got Darkrai in Diamond and Pearl despite thinking I'd be able to visit New Moon Island thanks to Bulbapedia). In fact, the event Pokémon in question didn't even need to be distributed in the movies, having their own separate events for getting them via Celebi, Mew, and even the [email protected] via that e-reader Eon Ticket. Also led to a massive waste in creating new areas like Navel Rock, Birth Island, Faraway Island, New Moon Island, Seabreak Path/Flower Paradise, Hall of Origin, Liberty Garden, or, heck, even Shinjoh Ruins, many of which went unused outside of datamining because they opted to just DLC them. There were ways to put those locations to good use without needing the movies.

    EDIT: BTW, I stumbled while on bulbapedia (that reminds me, when is their lockdown regarding USUM-related stuff going to end?) that DisneyNOW is apparently showing episodes of Pokémon. If that requires a subscription, I don't plan on doing that, but if I can watch for free, I probably won't even need to wait for Pokémon TV to upload the episodes to watch Misty and Brock's reunion with Ash in Alola. You know anything about it? Those episodes are the only exception to the current boycott against Disney (not counting stuff that, while being distributed by Disney, is technically created prior to Disney taking control such as any Legends continuity stuff relating to Star Wars).
  6. BettyNewbie
    4 Weeks Ago 10:41 AM
    BettyNewbie
    Quote:
    To be fair, and correct me if I'm mistaken, because I may be mixing up Adventures with Special, but May, or rather, Sapphire DID get the badge-collecting quest while Brendan/Ruby got the contests.
    Adventures and Special are the same thing. Adventures is the English name, while Special is the Japanese name.

    Yeah, they did do that with May/Sapphire and Brendan/Ruby. However, while it looked "progressive" on the surface, there was actually still quite a bit of sexism there.

    For one, Ruby was still treated as a main protagonist and hero (as are all the male PCs in Adventures), and was ultimately the one to save the day at the end. They also felt the need to give them some nonsense backstory involving a Salamence attack to "explain" why Ruby was effeminate and did Contests and Sapphire was a tomboy and collected Badges, as if they couldn't just naturally be that way. And, over time, Ruby became tougher and showed himself to be a stronger trainer, while Sapphire grew more feminine and vulnerable (and became a love interest for Ruby), so they eventually ended up slotting right back into traditional roles, anyways.

    (Plus, there was also another form of implied sexism with Ruby being so girly in the first place -- it sent home the message that the only guys who do Contests are preening, effeminate pretty boys. The anime also hammered home this message by constantly only showing guys like Drew and Harley doing Contests and rarely ever any masculine/non-effeminate guys outside of the one-shot Jeremy.)

    Quote:
    Fine by me. If they aren't going to bother making the female lead actually useful in advertising the main story of the games (ie, actually do things important to the games' plotline and endgame), they shouldn't bother including the female lead in the first place.
    If they were going to keep Ash around forever and ever despite his game counterpart (Red) having little relevance to games past GSC, I don't know why they couldn't just keep Misty as well. Sure, she became "stale" by the end of Johto, but so did Ash and Brock, and yet they got to stick around.

    Instead of writing off Misty as "stale" and throwing her away for new "eye candy," why couldn't they have actually put effort into her story? Every generation introduces new Water types and new Water specialists, and nothing was stopping them from giving Misty rivals and tournaments to complete in. And, did they forget that Hoenn had an entire Evil Team plot (Team Aqua) that centered around Water types? Or, that the region itself was 70% water?

    Misty could've gotten so much more than she had, and it upsets me that she was never given that chance.

    Quote:
    Sure, will keep that in mind. May also get Puzzle League on the Wii while I'm at it (one of the few games where Misty's actually playable). Besides, I'm pretty sure I won't miss much regarding USUM, especially when any Mythical Pokémon they have won't have any DLC stories since they screwed that bit up with Generation IV regarding Darkrai, Shaymin, and Arceus, and to a lesser extent Dialga, Palkia, and Giratina (they had full fledged story arcs you could get after meeting certain event requirements, with the latter three even having them violating the whole no-eggs Legendary thing by getting them as newly hatched baby mons, but instead, we just got direct ownership of them via download rather than visiting and actually encountering them and then capturing them. Such a shame, especially considering that I actually like exploration of new places).
    Those event Pokémon basically exist to sell movies, which is one reason why they stopped bothering with in-game stories for them. They want you to go watch the movie, collect your download, and be done with it. It's shallow, lazy game design, like just about everything else from Gens 6 and 7.
  7. BettyNewbie
    4 Weeks Ago 9:35 PM
    BettyNewbie
    Quote:
    Yeah, no kidding. They could have at least made them of equal standing to Ash, but no... they get filler stuff from the games.

    I'm sorry, but Misty and to a lesser extent Iris at least have goals that theoretically COULD require you to beat the league with a type-exclusive team. May, Dawn and Serena don't. Let's hope that Lillie at least can pursue gyms knowing Ash won't need to challenge the ones in Kanto and Johto again. The closest Serena's got to a true game mechanic goal is those stupid Pokémon Musicals from Black and White, and even THAT's grossly outdated.
    Wanna bet that Hilda would've been shoved into Musicals had she been used in BW instead of Iris? That's exactly what Adventures did with her, which is why that overrated rag isn't any better than the show in regards to female characters (and is arguably worse in places).

    After what happened with Serena, I'm 100% against female player characters being used as traveling companions. They can't be badge-collectors as long as Ash is still the protagonist, and it's painfully obvious that the writers are incapable of doing anything with them besides overly girly/cutesy performer goals. I'd rather have Ash's female companion be a Gym Leader (like Misty or Iris) or some other important NPC (like Lillie), while the female player character has a cameo appearance in a few episodes as a badge-collector (like Lyra).

    Quote:
    BTW, I know I said I'd hold off on getting any Pokémon games until I'm sure they don't screw up with Misty's return in some way, but I'm going to be making an exception with Pokémon Snap, and any other Pokémon stuff for the Wii console, and that's only because the Wii Shop Channel is going to be closing down soon, so I figured I might as well get those games and others while I still have that ability.
    Even if they don't screw up Misty's return, I honestly don't recommend buying USUM. The games don't offer much in the way of content over SM (unless minigames and a watered-down Battle Factory are your thing), and the story is actually worse (and that was practically SM's main redeeming quality to begin with). Better to either catch up on older games you missed or hold out for the upcoming Switch game.
  8. BettyNewbie
    November 29th, 2017 4:02 PM
    BettyNewbie
    Quote:
    (though I think they definitely screwed up there overall, mostly because Contests were a side quest in the game, not an actual goal. I mean, couldn't they at LEAST try to make her do something that, if it doesn't even match up with the ending of the game to the letter, then at least in spirit by having her be a type trainer?).
    Totally agree. It's especially obnoxious with XY's Showcases, which aren't even IN the games to begin with. Why couldn't they have had Serena's goal be based around an actual new mechanic from XY, like Mega Evolutions, Sky Battles, or Inverse Battles? Because, then, she couldn't be dumbed down into a "waifu" in the vein of May/Dawn (as an "apology" for Iris), but with an even lamer performer goal and all of their worst traits cranked up to 10. Blech.

    This is why the show should've never went down the path of turning player characters into Ash companions, IMO. These characters are designed to be protagonists, not cute costars playing second-fiddle to some twerp with a yellow rodent. When you play as May, Dawn, and Serena in the games, Ash is nowhere to be found, and you're the one collecting badges and kicking Evil Team butt. You can beat the game without even stepping foot into a Contest Hall.
  9. BettyNewbie
    November 26th, 2017 1:47 PM
    BettyNewbie
    Quote:
    Man, this stinks, as I really wanted to watch Misty return. And now I can't do it because of some stupid copyright thing that the site is technically immune to (I mean, the CBS app has a similar problem, yet even that at least allows you to watch the entire current season rather than restricts you from watching only a few episodes of that season)? I just checked Netflix, and while they DO have streamings of the episodes, including 42, they're the Japanese episodes, not the English ones (I like Mayumi Iizuka's voice acting of Misty, and in fact, her Kasumi special narration of the Pallet Party Panic was pretty much one of the few things I made the effort to watch in Japanese, only other being the Ragnarok Core Record for MMZ4's radio dramas, but it really doesn't do well to watch the raw when you can't even understand what they're saying). Looks like I can't watch until Easter, since that's most likely when they're even going to allow those episodes to be viewable.
    Tell me about it. It sucks that this is even still an issue in 2017. I'll keep looking for other sources, though. If I see the Misty/Brock episodes turn up somewhere else, I'll be sure to let you know.

    Quote:
    Probably is, but then again, they'd need to worry about making a new engine anyways, and since they're literally breezing right through Alola right now (I haven't seen a region go this fast since Kanto), they'd need to kill the time (especially when they haven't formally announced or even teased Generation 8, and believe me, if they were going to tease Generation 8, they probably would have done it by now, especially considering the likes of Destiny Deoxys where they outright hinted at Generation 4 with Munchlax, and that was before AG was even halfway through.).

    And yeah, your proposition definitely sounds interesting as well, never did a female badge collector in Ash's group before (we COULD have gotten it with May, but she went for contests instead), and that definitely would spice things up a bit, and since Ash has already done Kanto and possibly even Johto if we revisit that, they don't need to worry about her upstaging Ash in the gyms. Of course, that's assuming the writers even are smart enough to realize the inherent potential regarding that plot. And it definitely would be interesting to see who would become Gym Leader of Fuschia City if Koga becomes an Elite 4 member, since Koga technically has two relatives. And since USUM, the whole Rainbow Rocket thing aside, doesn't seem to have anything akin to a Battle Frontier, I'm doubtful that Ash will just do the activity that USUM had.
    The problem with May/Dawn/Serena being badge-collectors was that it would've been repetitive with Ash's story, so they got sent off to Contests/Showcases instead. As much as I dislike performer goals (and the way they've become a designated Girl Ghetto for female protagonists), it's understandable that the show would want to avoid having two main characters taking on the same gyms at the same time.

    But, Lillie going through the Kanto gyms would be a different story, since Ash already got those badges long ago. Ash would have another storyline in Kanto, leaving Lillie free to do the badge quest.

    As for Fuchsia Gym, I wouldn't be surprised if the show ignored Janine and used Aya instead (although I'd prefer to see both acknowledged). That's an issue that sort of came as an accident, as the original Fuchsia City episodes (and Aya) predate GSC/Janine. Although she's a younger sister and not a daughter, Aya pretty much plays the exact same role that Janine otherwise would've (I think the show even mentioned that Koga raised Aya like a daughter), so the show may consider her to be Janine's anime "counterpart" (just like how Paul is often seen as an anime "counterpart" to Silver).
  10. BettyNewbie
    November 25th, 2017 8:04 PM
    BettyNewbie
    Quote:
    Although... I find it odd that they restrict it to nine episodes, considering that Pokémon TV, correct me if I'm mistaken, is owned by the Pokémon Company, meaning they don't even need to worry about copyright issues.
    Because, they want you to go out and spend $$$ on the DVDs if you want to watch any episode anytime for free. That's how all "official" streaming sites work, unfortunately.

    Now, there are "unofficial" streaming sites that let you watch any episode at any time, but none of the ones I saw had any SM episodes.

    Quote:
    Yeah, let's hope so, I've already waited long enough as it is for Misty to come back and resume her goal. And besides, I'm pretty sure they would have hinted at Gen 8 by now if they were going to release it in 2018 (Metroid Prime 4 got teased at this year's E3, and that's not due until 2018 at the absolute earliest, and it's even indicated it might not even be out that year), and since we know we're close to the end of Alola as it is, they definitely need to kill time somehow.
    It's probably just a coincidence, but the previous three filler arcs all occurred at the tail ends of odd-numbered gens (Gen 1: Orange Islands, Gen 3: Battle Frontier, Gen 5: Decolore Islands), while the even-numbered gens (Johto, Sinnoh, Kalos) simply ended with the League and moved right on to the next gen's region. Furthermore, since Gen 3, odd-to-even gen transitions have all been major console changes (GBA => DS, DS => 3DS), while even-to-odd gen transitions stayed on the same console (DP => BW on DS, XY => SM on 3DS).

    When GF switches to a new console, they have to build a new engine instead of simply upgrading an old one, so this likely explains the tendency towards filler arcs closing out odd-numbered gens on the show. The games take longer to make, so the show has to add in more filler to kill time until the next gen's ready.

    Gens 1 and 5 had no regions besides Kanto and Unova, respectively, so we got anime-exclusive island regions for the filler arcs. Gen 3, on the other hand, had Kanto in addition to Hoenn thanks to FRLG, so the filler arc was set there instead of a new made-up region.

    Gen 7 also contains Kanto (and Johto) in addition to Alola if the VC re-releases are to be counted, and the Misty/Brock episodes prove that the show is promoting those, too. Put all of this together, and that argues for a return to Kanto in late SM.

    In addition to more development for Misty and Brock, I hope we also see Lillie grow into a badge-collecting trainer. I would be very frustrated and disappointed to see yet another female lead get put in the coordinator/performer/waifu role, and it would also be a fun way to revisit the Kanto Gym Leaders. I'd love to finally know whether or not anime!Koga became an E4 Member like his game counterpart, and whether Janine exists in the show or is replaced by Aya.
  11. TheUncreativeSawsbuckFan
    November 25th, 2017 6:02 PM
    TheUncreativeSawsbuckFan
    Nice username lol
  12. BettyNewbie
    November 25th, 2017 11:50 AM
    BettyNewbie
    Quote:
    BTW, the Pokémon TV thing only seems to show Episodes 19-28 on Sun and Moon's section. Is it usually like that (only showing nine episodes available to play, I mean)? Only asking because my Computer's driver's currently inactive, so my display's a bit magnified right now, so I have no idea whether that's the result of my computer or if the site's always like that.
    I assume it is. Most official streaming sites only let you watch a few episodes at a time for copyright reasons. You're just going to have to wait for the Misty/Brock episodes to turn up there.

    ....


    I've discussed this with others via PM, but I have a strong feeling that we're going to get a filler arc in the vein of Orange Islands/Battle Frontier/Decolore Islands after the Alola story is wrapped up. The show is zipping through Alola at a speedy pace, and while there's rumors that the Switch/Gen 8 games could be out as early as late 2018, I realistically don't see them coming out any earlier than early/mid 2019. This means that the show will have to kill time while waiting for Gen 8 after Alola is finished.

    While we could always get another made-up region, there's also a fairly strong chance that we could return to Kanto instead. Kanto would help promote the VC re-releases, as well as Gen 7's 20th anniversary theme, and it would also be the ideal place for a big Team Rocket/Giovanni plot if the show decides to go that route after Alola. The Misty/Brock episodes may have been an early preview for the show's post-Alola/late SM plans.
  13. BettyNewbie
    November 24th, 2017 6:57 PM
    BettyNewbie
    Sounds like you have a busy schedule ahead. Good luck!

    There's really no reason for USUM to be a big seller. It's just $40 DLC, so if you already bought and played SM, there's no need to buy USUM, especially since the games don't even have Emerald/Platinum-level postgame content.

    On top of that, the games are releasing on the 3DS right at the tail end of its life cycle, and unlike previous handhelds, the Switch has no backwards compatibility with its predecessor's games. When the 3DS dies, so will 3DS games, so USUM have a very limited amount of time to rack up sales.

    The closest comparison to USUM I can think of is Crystal, which came out only a year after GS at the tail end of the GBC's lifespan and shortly before RS' hard compatibility break. And, guess what the worst-selling main series game is?
  14. BettyNewbie
    November 24th, 2017 11:53 AM
    BettyNewbie
    The games also got HORRIBLE reviews on Amazon Japan. I feel vindicated.

    As far as "Alola, Kanto" goes, check this site:

    https://www.pokemon.com/us/pokemon-episodes/

    They're a little behind on the SM episodes, so you'll probably have to wait for the Misty/Brock ones, but it looks like a place where you can watch them for free.
  15. BettyNewbie
    November 17th, 2017 12:14 PM
    BettyNewbie
    The biggest sign will be how much USUM's sales drop off from SM's. Doing the math on previous gens, B2W2 were the most successful "region revisit" games, dropping 45.5% from BW's sales, and Yellow was the most successful third version, dropping 53.5% from RGB's sales. On the flipside, Crystal was the least successful third version, with a massive 72.3% drop from GS' sales.

    B2W2 were clearly boosted by being sequels rather than a third version, so people who had already played BW actually had an incentive to buy those games for reasons other than completionism. USUM aren't anywhere close to being sequels, so Yellow/Crystal/Emerald/Platinum are better comparisons.

    When it comes to third versions, the ones that release late in a console's run (Crystal, Emerald) tend to get worse sales than the ones that don't (Yellow, Platinum). This is because more attention is focused on the new console and how the series will move on, so people are even less interested in an upgraded rehash game.

    USUM clearly fall into the same group as Crystal/Emerald. They're releasing at the tail end of the 3DS' lifespan and after the Switch had already come out. On top of that, GF even announced future plans for a main series Switch game only a week after USUM were first announced, so much of the fandom's attention has been on that rather than USUM. Many fans automatically wrote off USUM as a low effort stopgap designed to buy time for the upcoming Switch game, and those fans were largely proven right by the reveals and leaks.

    Given all of the above, USUM shouldn't sell any higher than 6.3/6.4 million (which is what Crystal and Emerald sold), and they could easily sell even less since Gen 7 is overall lower-selling than Gens 2 and 3, and USUM can't be played on the Switch like Crystal could be played on the GBA and Emerald could be played on the DS.

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