TrollandToad.com

weedle_mchairybug weedle_mchairybug is offline

Visitor Messages

Showing Visitor Messages 31 to 45 of 176
  1. CidHazard
    September 5th, 2017 7:41 AM
    CidHazard
    Hello Weedle...

    One year... It's been one year since the original Pokemon Ratings thread coerced me to join the community and to throw my hat into the proverbial ring. Our first interaction... Yet after all that time this is the first time I've tried to interact with you in a more... personal way...

    I know I've stated this before but thank you for being the reason for me joining this wonderful community. Stay frosty man XD
  2. BettyNewbie
    September 4th, 2017 9:22 AM
    BettyNewbie
    I'm a little late, but I'm back!

    Quote:
    I've been busy collecting signatures at Dragon Con to bring Misty back (yes, I know that technically, Misty actually is returning, but I needed a fall-back strategy in case the writers screw up massively).
    Heh, that's dedication! How many signatures did you get?

    Quote:
    Yeah, no kidding. Misty and Brock being present may not have necessarily saved the story from being a total mess, but at least it would have made the story a bit more tethered to being an actual 20th anniversary celebration akin to Dragon Ball: The Path to Power.
    It boggles my mind that somebody ever thought it was a good idea to make a movie that's based on OS, yet dump all of the OS characters in favor of random OCs that serve no purpose beyond promoting irrelevant later gen Pokemon. I know I've already asked it a million times, but just who was this movie aimed at?

    Quote:
    Yeah, no kidding. They could have at least made the form somewhat more accessible rather than make it download exclusive. Seems like a bit of a waste even if it does make money.
    The thing's little more than just a badly recolored Midday form. You'd think they'd at least put more effort into their special snowflake Ash forms, especially if they're going to be event-only.

    Quote:
    Well, to be fair, they could always give it to Sceptile or any other Pokémon Ash has that's capable of it in addition to Charizard and/or Pidgeot. Would more than make up for XY's failure to actually GIVE him a Mega. And honestly, Ash retrieving Pidgeot would probably be enough to make up for the writers stupidly having Ash NOT visit it in Battle Frontier (I can understand him not keeping his promise in Johto, but not AG).
    Sceptile's time would've been back in XY when ORAS was still new. However, they opted to promote Mega Sceptile through a blah OC instead.

    Everything about the Kanto revisit in Battle Frontier felt like a waste. Why bother returning to the region if you're not going to revisit past characters and show any sense of continuity? They might as well have just set it in the Sevii Islands or some new, made-up region.

    Quote:
    Well, to be fair regarding Kris/Marina, she wasn't exactly a Coordinator either, more of a marketer.
    I know it's not official, but Bulbapedia calls her a coordinator. I know she was later referenced in DP, so the show may have called her one there.

    Kris is my favorite female PC (and really, PC of either gender) in the games, so I absolutely *loathe* what the anime did to her. Even her design was needlessly pinkified and made lighter/brighter, and in the Raikou special, she was little more than an annoying, giggling fangirl who always needed the Big Strong Men to rescue her. She was the only character whose starter wasn't even fully evolved!

    The one and only thing I can say the show did do right with her, though, is that they gave her Totodile instead of Chikorita. I hate it when female characters are automatically given the "girly" starter just because they're girls and not because the Pokemon would actually suit them. Totodile fits with Kris' design far better than Chikorita, IMO.

    (And, this is total bias, but Chikorita's just an awful starter -- bad stats, bad movepool, bad design. Outside of the non-evolving Pikachu in Yellow, it's the weakest, most useless starter in any of the games, bar none.)

    Quote:
    Let's hope Lillie averts it as well, especially considering how unlike the prior characters, she's an important NPC.
    I've been discussing this with a friend of mine (via PM), and if we have Kanto/Johto sequels coming down the line that feature Lillie as a battling friendly rival, then one thing the show could do to promote those games is have Ash & Lillie travel to Kanto/Johto, where Lillie could become a trainer and start collecting badges. That'd be really awesome to see and definitely a refreshing change of pace for a female lead on this show.

    Quote:
    Fully agreed there. Even Pokémon Special replaces its characters, why can't Pokémon? And that's not even counting Digimon which at least replaces its main characters (and I hated Digimon when I was a kid since I thought it was a ripoff).
    It's possible that the Tracey backlash got the show scared of replacing characters (although that didn't stop them from dumping Misty ). It's also possible that TPTB insisted on Ash being kept around so the Yellow Rat could be kept around.

    Quote:
    Yeah, no kidding. I also had enough genre savvy to realize that all those "hints" to Amourshipping wouldn't take, even knowing that the titles probably would end up betraying expectations with the Date episode knowing how the Japanese title for what we know as "Date with Delcatty" indicated that Misty would pull a life-risking maneuver, when, really, she didn't (probably the only time she actually DID do that in a Hoso was when she took Poison Sting to prevent Gyarados from being hit by the attack). And don't get me started on the Luvdisc special where the previews made it seem as though Orangeshipping was going to be canon when in reality, most of the so-called "hints" were from Daisy's overactive imagination, and even the one hint that actually did occur in reality was technically done while Misty and Tracey were under the influence of attract, and that was just for the purposes of Daisy's play. And they constantly betrayed expectations there (shame the writers did it in the one plays they really shouldn't do something like that with the Kalos League, that was just stupid beyond belief, and it also didn't help that such an action was pointless even compared to the other times Ash lost a league since there literally were no gyms or leagues in Alola).
    This show is SO horrible about playing into fanservice, only to troll the audience and pull the rug out from under them at the last minute.

    Quote:
    Hmm, fair point. I'm similar myself, though I usually limit myself to those who are love at first sight and have said love reciprocated.
    I don't know about you, but I *hate* love triangles and other needless romance drama in stories. It may be "boring" to some, but I prefer couples to have healthy, stable relationships. Drama can easily come from other sources if needed.
  3. BettyNewbie
    September 2nd, 2017 6:19 PM
    BettyNewbie
    I'll reply tomorrow, if you don't mind. I've had a long day, and I need to take a little break.
  4. BettyNewbie
    August 31st, 2017 3:15 PM
    BettyNewbie
    Quote:
    Yeah. Ironically, though, Blastoise and Venusaur were literally the face of Pokémon Blue and Green, respectively, which meant that they if anything were as much marketable as Charizard.

    And I don't mind marketing so long as they don't end up neglecting the story or development in the process.
    Maybe Blastoise, but no way to Venusaur. It was always seen has having a "less cool" design than the other two, and the fact that it didn't even make it into the international releases as a mascot says it all. It still surprises me that we ever got LeafGreen instead of WaterBlue, and even then, most Kanto starter marketing still centers around Charizard/Blastoise (and Pikachu), ignoring poor Venusaur.

    Quote:
    Yeah, don't remind me of that. Even ignoring the mess-ups to the original series and neglecting Misty and Brock, and to a certain extent Gary, they didn't even bother to connect it with those marketing mangas that were meant to set it up (Marshadow in the movie was radically different from the Marshadow in the tie-in manga, for example). Overall, it was a mess.
    Even worse is that the new characters didn't even add anything to the movie besides their mascot Pokémon and a few cheap Sinnoh references. Misty and Brock were dumped for no real reason at all.

    Quote:
    Yeah, a real shame that they did that and pretty bad overall. At least with Johto, though, Ash had Oak immediately dispatching him to Johto as an excuse, and he made clear with Falkner that he intends to reunite with Pidgeot someday. Too bad the idiot writers of AG didn't even bother to follow through on his promise to Pidgeot, thus making him seem as bad as Damian.

    And yeah, let's hope that Pidgeot and, heck, any of his other Pokémon utilize Megas as well. We got Ash-Greninja, and while he's cool overall, he's still not a true Mega anyways, and Ash has gone without a Mega for far too long, which is unacceptable not just because it could showcase his skill in that regard, but also because it wasted a good marketing opportunity as well.
    From what I've mostly read, the special snowflake frog happened because the show didn't want to bring back any of Ash's old Pokémon to be his Mega, and since none of the Gen 6 monsters had Megas, they had to make up something for Greninja.

    (And, since the frog was a hit, it looks like they're trying to replicate that success with Lycanroc, hence Ash getting a new, event-exclusive form instead of either of the regular ones.)

    Of course, if they even decide to let Ash have a Mega, they'd probably take the lazy route and do it with Charizard (and have it be the already massively overused X form, to boot), which would suck. I want to see Ash's other Pokémon get attention for once, like poor neglected Pidgeot.

    Quote:
    And regarding the girls, the closest they ever got to actually averting that trend after Misty's departure was with Iris.
    Misty and Iris prove my point, though. They're based on Gym Leaders rather than player characters. The only female PC counterpart that ever came close to averting the show's trends with female PCs was the briefly-appearing Lyra:



    She was still portrayed as an annoying bimbo, but she was an actual badge-collecting trainer and not some coordinator, unlike Kris/Marina, May, Dawn, and Serena.

    (And, I say this as somebody who absolutely *hates* Lyra and her existence in the games. Not only does she have an awful design, but she needlessly replaced the games' first female PC. It annoys me that the show did sort-of okay with the games' worst female PC, yet psyducked up awesome ones like Kris and May.)

    Quote:
    Yeah, Johto was probably a far more fitting end there, rather than having him go through regions, only occasionally getting better and then having his triumph stolen from him anyway, and otherwise either doing the same as before or doing worse, and overall doing level resets.
    On top of all of that, also consider that GSC were the only games that were direct sequels to the previous gen. Starting with Gen 3, regions became self-contained stories with no direct connections to the previous ones. Ash continuing into Johto was completely justified, but him continuing into Hoenn and beyond wasn't.

    Quote:
    Yeah, I know, and it's already bad enough that Pokeshipping and Amourshipping wars are prevalent (personally, I adhere to neither shipping as I don't ship, not unless it's something like how Disney generally treats romance or Romeo and Juliet, and even there, only if it is reciprocated). If they end up bringing Serena in, unless they just have them becoming friendly without vying for Ash's attention like when May and Misty returned, I'm definitely going to have to really contain my irritation regarding possible in-universe fights.
    I've never had any interest in Ash ships. There's no point in shipping Ash with anyone when you know that he's just going to remain a dumb 10 year old forever and ever, and he's going to keep on getting a new female companion every few years, rinse and repeat. People who seriously thought Amourshipping was going to be canon were delusional.

    (Plus, I'm more interested in shipping older characters like Lance and Lorelei, anyways. Far less painful than shipping a non-aging preteen. And, even among the younger characters, I always found Gary and Tracey to be cuter and more appealing than Ash ever was.)
  5. BettyNewbie
    August 29th, 2017 6:15 PM
    BettyNewbie
    Quote:
    I'll agree with you there. They definitely should have evolved it when they had the chance, or at the very least if they REALLY wanted to keep it unevolved, give it some justification for not evolving like, I don't know, not wanting to evolve, similar to Bulbasaur, and to a lesser extent Squirtle.
    I'm sure there was probably marketing involved. They wanted to keep selling Togepi toys, and Togetic didn't have the same appeal as its pre-evolved form, so Togepi had to remain a baby for as long as possible.

    This was pretty much what happened with Bulbasaur and Squirtle, as well, even if they at least bothered to give an in-universe justification for them. Unlike Charmander's, their evolved forms weren't considered marketable enough, so they had to stay unevolved forever.

    Quote:
    Yeah, I know what you mean by that. I'm still reluctant to embrace retcons, even for things I don't like, largely because I realize it's a very dangerous tool especially if not used wisely.
    Case in point: M20. X___X

    Quote:
    Yeah, agreed, and based on her and Veronica Taylor actually emulating Misty and Ash respectively while in traffic, I'm pretty sure Rachel Lillis at least would express interest in reprising the role and would do so again (and for bonus points, she doesn't even need to work on her Jessie voice as well).
    If I had my way, I'd bring all of the 4Kids VAs back, but sadly, it's far too late for that.

    Quote:
    Yeah, that would definitely go a long way to truly fixing several mistakes the writers have made frequently, including among other things, Misty's shoddy departure (not to mention failing to truly give her any sense of closure or even a means to continue her own goal, even changing her goal of her own free will), their making Ash as bad as Damian regarding Pidgeot, and also getting Squirtle back (if they can bring back Charizard permanently, they most certainly can bring Squirtle back). And hey, if they use Pidgeot's Mega Evolution, it also has the added benefit of Ash putting Pidgeot to better use.
    It seems that Pidgeot got screwed over by marketing. (What else is new?) If Ash ever fulfilled his promise and returned to it, then the show couldn't give him whatever the current gen's regional bird was, and promoting new monsters comes before anything else.

    Hopefully, the potential for promoting its Mega Evolution is a good enough excuse to finally bring Pidgeot back. Plus, a lot of people want to see Ash with a real Mega (and not another marketing-driven special snowflake frog), anyways.

    Quote:
    Yeah, no kidding. You'd think they'd at least put them to better use.
    Brendan and Wally got ripped off badly, IMO. Gold/Jimmy got that Raikou special, and Lucas/Hilbert/Calem/Sun at least had their outfits worn by Ash, so they were semi-represented through him. Nate and Hugh's absence was justified by them being mid-generation sequel characters, while Silver had a semi-counterpart through Paul. It's made even worse by Ash not having a rival at all in AG, so the show intentionally let these two characters rot in limbo.

    (And, of course, I could go on all day about how the show treats female PCs. Either they're annoying bimbo coordinators, or they don't exist at all. )

    Quote:
    (And in DP's case, the fact that they heavily foreshadowed Ash potentially facing the Elite 4 and some Pokémon Sunday stuff in the leadup to BW where Ash was not only absent from various BW promotional materials, but said Sunday staff outright noted the absence, suggests that Ash losing the league had been a last minute decision.)
    Interesting. It sounds like there may have been plans to finally drop Ash after Sinnoh, especially with the Unova games being somewhat of a hard reboot. If only they had done so.

    (Although, really, Johto should've been Ash's final region. Even the Johto arc itself would've been vastly improved by it since it would've now had a clear direction and ending to work towards.)

    Quote:
    Yeah, and in the case of Misty, also make up for the really shoddy treatment they've given her for quite some time by forcing her into a gym. Come to think of it, I wonder if her returning had to do with that Japanese poll that had Brock and Misty making first and third place, respectively during the leadup to Movie 20?
    It's possible that the poll was a factor. Of course, if that's the case, then (ugh) we'll have to eventually suffer through a Serena return and more AmourShipping nonsense.
  6. BettyNewbie
    August 29th, 2017 10:25 AM
    BettyNewbie
    Quote:
    Eh, personally, I didn't mind Togepi that much, could care less about it one way or another. In fact, I'm actually baffled as to why people give it that much hate, even going as far as to treat its relationship to Misty like a Metroid feeding on its victims. If anything, I thought it was a far better done relationship than May and Manaphy's relationship. Say what you will about how Misty and Togepi's relationship was handled overall, at least if Togepi was in danger, whether being abducted, going missing, or anything like that, you definitely can count on Misty to go out of her way to save it or at least track it down. May didn't make any attempt to save Manaphy when Phantom abducted it in Movie 9, or heck, even aid Ash in stopping him and saving it. Besides, Misty's violent temper even prior to Togepi existing if you ask me was far closer to a mere three-mile island compared to Jessie from the same series, or ESPECIALLY Naru Narusegawa from Love Hina (at least Misty only gets violent when Ash and Brock do something genuinely foolish and/or bad. As that link you provided pointed out, Naru violently beats up Keitaru if he does so much as even look at her the wrong way, or heck, even walk in at the absolute wrong time). And even before Togepi hatched, or even before its egg was discovered, Misty definitely had hints at a motherly nature, like for example, she comforted that Cubone during her brief stint as a nurse, and in the case of the first two episodes, she was genuinely concerned with Pikachu and, in the novelization, even directly comforted it by cradling it. Besides, I know of a few characters where their becoming a mother didn't harm their development at all and in some cases actually helped tremendously and made them even more of a badass, like Ariel from The Little Mermaid II, or Samus Aran from Super Metroid, or Terra Branford from Final Fantasy VI.

    Not to mention, quite frankly, maybe Togepi should have been developed a whole lot better than it did, but I don't think having it be a battler would have worked. Orange Islands already established that it doesn't really understand several basic moves even if you do a physical demonstration, its moveset in the games wasn't particularly impressive until Gen IV, and even the way it evolves doesn't even involve battling. Ironically, Misty "babying" Togepi actually came far closer to unlocking its potential than having it fight. And personally, not blaming you specifically so much as several other fans in general such as Cybercubed who claimed that, but I kinda blame everyone insisting that Togepi "did nothing" by not battling at all for the various OP Pokémon we got in the anime starting with AG, including Ash's Hoenn team for the most part, not to mention May's Eevee and Squirtle, and probably also Dawn's Piplup. At least Pikachu's OP status was excused by it not being an ordinary Pikachu to begin with.

    But agreed, would like to see Azurril evolve, especially when its evolved forms actually ARE Water Types.
    All I wanted was to see Togepi evolve WAY earlier than it did. Yes, it's a happiness evolution and not really a battling Pokémon, but surely it had to be happy enough to evolve in Johto and not eons later in Hoenn when nobody cared anymore. Huge missed opportunity for character growth for both Misty and the Pokémon.

    Quote:
    Eh, personally, I'm not a big fan of doing AUs or retcons, especially when the anime's already bad enough with continuity as it is from AG onward (and quite frankly, after the complete mess Hideo Kojima made with Metal Gear's continuity with each entry, up to and especially including the mess that was MGSV, I would rather they do as few retcons as humanly possible). Besides, the fact that Misty and Brock are considered Ash's friends would suggest that its not an AU (Misty and Brock didn't appear in M20). Now, if she and him both mention the bike, it's sold being the same continuity, which if anything would make it even better.
    I generally hate retcons myself, but my distaste for AG-onwards makes the idea of ditching them far too tempting.

    Quote:
    Maybe, but then again, even Giovanni spent from the episode TPCi started doing new voice actors up to DP080 with a new voice actor, and then with DP080 afterward, he got back his old 4Kids VA, so its not necessarily impossible for Misty to have Rachel Lillis act as her VA when the episode gets dubbed.
    I guess it will all depend on actor availability. Unlike Ash and Brock, Misty was last dubbed all the way back in 2006, and she was never dubbed by TPCi outside of a few episodes/specials, so Lillis is still her most familiar dub VA for most people.

    Quote:
    Yeah, no kidding. We didn't get a reappearance from them until the Battle Frontier. Speaking of which, let's hope that with the upcoming Kanto revisit, they also have Ash's Squirtle return for good as well, like what happened with Ash's Charizard in BW. Oh, and also bring back Pidgeot.
    That would be cool. Since they seem to want to show off Megas in these episodes, guess who else has a potential Mega?



    Quote:
    Yeah, valid points, and let's not forget how they wasted a perfectly good opportunity to not only bring Misty back, but also potentially bring closure to her character back in Best Wishes where they managed to completely skip over the Pokémon World Conference arc despite it actually being something from Pokémon Black 2 and White 2, and thus have a whole lot of advertising potential. Probably the only one that actually DID get decent coverage was HeartGold and SoulSilver, and that's only because they at least had the playable characters from those games actually cameo in a few episodes.
    I've noticed that, for whatever reason, this show seems to go out of its way to avoid showing characters in remake redesigns after they had already appeared in their original looks.

    As I said, we mainly got Agatha because her original design never made it into the show and only existed in a couple of board games.



    Something similar happened with Lance. Anime art was made of his original design (and with purple hair, LOL), but it was never used in the show, and he ended up appearing in his GSC outfit instead. FRLG kept him in the same outfit from Gen 2, so they could bring him back in AG without having to change his appearance, but ever since HGSS gave him a major redesign, the show has largely ignored him.



    Since Jasmine actually appeared in the Sinnoh games and not just HGSS, it was hard for the show to avoid bringing her back in her new design.



    Clair is somewhat of an anomaly, but I guess Iris being in the main cast made them want to bring back one of the past Dragon specialists, and since Clair's last appearance was more than a decade old by then (unlike Lance's), "enough" time had passed to show her in her new look.



    As for Steven, he was little more than a forgettable COTD in AG (and didn't even wear his normal outfit through most of the episode), so he was a similar case to Agatha and Lance in that his original design barely even existed in the anime.



    The only true "exception" to the anime's aversion to remake redesigns seems to be Gary, who was brought back in the BF arc in Blue's FRLG outfit. Even then, Gary was severely underutilized in his BF/DP appearances, and he was never later brought back in Blue's HGSS outfit.



    Lyra was a brand new character rather than a redesigned Kris, so that's likely a big reason why we got to see her in DP. That being said, you'd think that Green, Brendan, and Wally would've still safely fit within the anime's unspoken "rules" for showing characters in remake outfits. Green was a new character (though based on a beta design), while Wally never appeared in the show at all, and Brendan never appeared beyond a few faceless, forgettable movie cameos.

    Quote:
    Ugh, don't remind me of Cameron. That guy should have outright LOST to Ash due to having been a massive idiot throughout the league, making even BW Ash look smart by comparison. And yeah, that's what makes it even MORE sad as well, especially when in the case of Noland and Brandon, they actually used Legendaries (heck, even OWNED Legendaries in the latter case), meaning they definitely shouldn't have qualified as weak.
    I've already said it a million times, but this is exactly why Ash should've never stuck around past Johto. It's impossible to keep him around without constantly hitting the reset button and making a mess of continuity. It's why he never ages and keeps on losing every League.

    Quote:
    Yeah, agreed. Hopefully they've got an actual Water Pokémon Master event akin to the Whirl Cup that both she and Misty could participate in. Would at least be better than what is essentially an Emperor's New School clone (nothing against Emperor's New School, but that kind of series doesn't fit in with Pokémon at all, and I really don't appreciate Ash being forced out of what was supposed to be his goal, literally having his victory stolen from him in a cheap manner, and then not even attempt to oversee development of a new league in Alola as compensation, or better yet, actually WIN Kalos). And this is especially if Misty is indeed returning for far longer than two episodes.
    I agree. Maybe Misty and Brock returning will be the catalyst to kick SM out of "slice of life" mode and get some character and story progression happening.
  7. BettyNewbie
    August 28th, 2017 9:08 PM
    BettyNewbie
    Quote:
    Well, I saw it now, and I even made a reply. And I'm also especially eager at the description, since there's no mention of Misty even being a Gym Leader in sight, which means she's pursuing her Water Pokémon Master again, most likely, which definitely would be a form of redemption for the writers. The Megas are the icing on the cake. As far as the dub for those episodes when they come out, maybe they'll bring back Rachel Lillis for Misty. After all, they did bring back the 4Kids VA for Giovanni to play as him, so it's not impossible.

    And you said it. Especially after the messup that was M20.
    There's something else that I'm glad to see absent from Misty's arms in those SM pictures:



    Can you say most pointless Pokémon ever? After they botched Togepi's development, the last thing Misty ever needed was a replacement baby to lug around (and presumably never evolve). To me, that Azurill symbolizes the way Misty and her goal were left in limbo after AG, and unless it's now an Azumarill, I hope it never shows up in SM.

    Of course, seeing that Misty and Brock are in their original designs (rather than either the AG/DP ones or new outfits), that could possibly point towards SM being an AU that follows OS and ignores AG-XY. Granted, Brock being a doctor and Misty having Gyarados could allude to later sagas still existing in SM's continuity, but those are also things that could easily happen to either of them in an AU post-OS. We'd have to see harder evidence, such as any of Ash's later region Pokémon appearing at Oak's lab or direct references to later regions/characters.

    It'd be awesome to have Rachel Lillis as Misty again, but sadly, I wouldn't bet on it. You know Ash and Brock will have their TCPi VAs, so Misty will likely have hers as well.

    Quote:
    Don't forget May getting Bulbasaur and Squirtle as well. In fact, she got Bulbasaur the same day FRLG came out in Japan.
    That's the kind of stuff the Anime's always done for "remake promotion," which is pretty blah. Who cares about a random Bulbasaur and Squirtle when you could just bring back Ash's? Or, alternately, have the FRLG girl make a cameo appearance with those Pokémon.

    It's the shallowest form of "remake promotion" ever, and it barely even promotes the games. Again, I point to Sawyer from XY as another example. He was a random OC with a random Sceptile, and yet, he was supposed to be XY's main "ORAS promotion." Why not just bring back Ash's Sceptile if they wanted to promote the Pokémon (and its Mega)? Or, if they didn't want to use Ash's Sceptile, why not, then, show it with an actual character from the games like Brendan or Wally?

    It doesn't make any sense. If this show is meant to be nothing more than a glorified game commercial, then why does it sometimes go out of its way to avoid showing stuff from the games? And, would the little kiddies really run away if one of Ash's old Pokémon besides Charizard showed up?

    Quote:
    And yeah, agreed there, and honestly, the Battle Frontier was probably one of the few redeeming moments for the AG saga due to Ash compensating for his rather unimpressive turnout at Hoenn. Even there, though, it ultimately got treated as a dang joke afterwards, especially after how Pikachu was beaten around (not as humiliating as BW where he literally LOST to a person just out of the door starting a new journey, but still pretty humiliating). Probably the closest we got to actual continuity to the old Kanto saga was with the Spurt! opening.
    Like Ash's Orange victory, his BF victory was something that was probably meant to be seen as impressive at the time, but was ultimately rendered null and void by his loads of League losses. Logically speaking, the Frontier Brains are total chumps next to this little brat from Unova. After all, he beat Ash, and they didn't.

    Quote:
    Yeah, no kidding. She missed out on XY, and she might even miss SM. Shame, as her goal was actually pretty interesting.


    Quote:
    Yeah, it looks like it. Of course, we still have to wait until September 21 rolls around before we can officially declare victory. Don't want to make the same mistake Tarkin made against the Rebels in A New Hope regarding the Death Star, where he thought he was guaranteed an easy victory simply because the odds were in his favor.
    I'm cautiously optimistic. Everything I've seen about SM Misty looks good so far -- no mention of her being a Gym Leader, no Azurill, has a badass Mega Gyarados. Hopefully, Psyduck has evolved, too. This is the show's big chance to fix their screw-up with Misty, even if it's in an AU.

    Quote:
    It's actually almost fitting Misty will be coming back in SM, considering that Alola, the primary region of Gen VII, arguably has even MORE water than Hoenn.
    Alola also introduced the first female Water specialist since Misty, herself -- Lana. And, she even owns a Pokémon that evolves into a literal mermaid:

  8. BettyNewbie
    August 28th, 2017 10:16 AM
    BettyNewbie
    Any thoughts on this piece of news? They even have Megas now!

    (And, here, I had thought that the show had abandoned the idea of ever bringing back old traveling companions and acknowledging past sagas. Glad I was proven wrong.)

    Quote:
    You know what, you're right, they definitely failed to do a lot of that. They even failed to bring in Pidgeot, thus making Ash seem pretty bad (at least with Johto, him not revisiting Pidgeot was somewhat justified due to Oak not really giving him much time to do so. AG had him have plenty of time revisiting him, yet they failed to do that).
    Despite being set in Kanto, the BF season was really far more about Emerald promotion than FRLG promotion. The only FRLG nods we ever really got were Agatha appearing (and I suspect we only got her because she was the last Gen 1 E4 member who had never been in the show; anime artwork was actually made of her original design, as well as Lance's, but it was never used outside of a couple of board games from the late 90s) and Gary showing up in Blue's FRLG design. And, while not from the BF season, Lance randomly appearing in the (horribly-written) Magma/Aqua finale was also meant to be FRLG promotion.

    Quote:
    No kidding, and quite frankly, Iris having a cameo would at least allow us to see how much progress she was getting regarding her Dragon Pokémon Master goal, especially when there's no real hinderance to her coming back, unlike May, Dawn, and Serena, where they'd need to have a contest to have their return be even remotely plausible.
    After recent news, I feel especially bad for Iris now. I'm not the hugest fan of her or anything, but it looks like she's getting completely skipped over for a returning cameo.

    Quote:
    Tell me about it. I doubt Misty would like any of the girls if she met them face to face and especially if she witnessed them attacking Keitaro Urashima. After all, she came from a pretty bad familial background where her sisters neglected her, and at worst were at times emotionally abusive, so I don't think she would have liked seeing Urashima being beaten up especially for very trivial reasons like him being present at the wrong place at the wrong time. In fact, we even got a hint of this when she fought against Giselle after witnessing her bullying that kid, and was notably the only one of the cast who didn't change her stance on how disgusting Giselle's treatment of the kid was just because she was a girl. I'm even willing to bet that, if she caught them, she'd treat them like Starkiller did to those Stormtroopers in The Force Unleashed II: https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=zmlBA_8JRTA#t=450
    That seems to be part of the fanservice of harem trash like Love Hina. For whatever reason, a lot of men get turned on by beautiful women beating them up and treating them like crap, and harem trash is all about playing into the fetishes of its audience. It's basically bad Gary Stu fanfiction designed for lonely, basement-dwelling otakus.

    Quote:
    One of my videos giving reasons for bringing Misty back (the very first part, in fact) actually has the clip in question. I'll provide it for you so you won't even need to take my word for it. Think of it as a memory refresher: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r0OowSxgEcE In fact, it's at the very beginning. The video series is called "super-edited" because I was planning for it to be four videos long, but I had to combine the first two videos since my Pinnacle software could not allow for multiple blurs as a form of censorship (and had problems actually tracking certain parts of the sensitive areas of even one as it is. Let's just say that I had to show some nude pictures from Love Hina in there specifically to prove to the audiences, and since it's a family film, I needed to tastefully show it so they'd get the idea without exposing kids to filth at the same time.). Someday, I may revisit that video.
    Yikes at those comments!

    Interesting video. Since Misty's now coming back, it looks like you have the last laugh on the naysayers.

    Quote:
    Thanks. I've also had some storyboards for a Star Wars type thing called Water Wars that would have involved Pokémon and Kim Possible (oh, and also Disney's The Little Mermaid), and that would have been part of that story arc. It would have been a spinoff for another story called Pokémon Crew, which was essentially a mix of Pokémon, Beast Wars: Transformers, and Star Fox (from 64 up to Assault). Bear in mind, I came up with this storyline long before 2006, which was when I officially started fighting to bring Misty back.

    And yeah, agreed there, that was perfect for a Misty movie, and I'm pretty sure there, she actually WOULD have aided in taking out Phantom instead of letting Ash do all the work, or if she doesn't actually end up helping, there's some justification for it, like the fact that he slammed her against a wall while abducting Manaphy and thus she couldn't actually help. Heck, Hoenn itself was practically MADE for Misty.
    Sounds like a massive crossover you have planned. Good luck with it.

    Agree about Hoenn. There's a reason why people joke about the region having Too Much Water. Over half the place is water routes, and much of its Dex is made up of Water types. Also, it had an evil team centered around water (Aqua), a Water type Box Legendary (Kyogre), and the games' first Water Champion (Wallace).
  9. BettyNewbie
    August 27th, 2017 5:10 PM
    BettyNewbie
    Quote:
    Yeah, fully agreed there. They definitely shouldn't have screwed over storytelling or continuity regarding this. For goodness sakes, during the Battle Frontier, they barely even attempted to tie in any continuity for Kanto at all, despite it being Ash's own home region. You would have thought based on how things were done that they were just traveling some other region.
    This show is really bad at promoting remakes, for some reason. It rarely ever brings back past characters (not even Gym Leaders and COTDs, let alone traveling companions), and in many cases, it rarely goes beyond just showing a few older gen Pokémon (and not even the same ones Ash & Co. had previously owned).

    The show's ORAS promotion was especially weak. All we got was Steven (who was little more than a forgettable COTD in AG) and some random, boring OC with a Sceptile.

    Even if VA issues prevented a May reappearance, they still could've done way better than that. Instead of bringing in some random OC with a Sceptile, why not use Brendan instead? Or, alternately, bring in Wally with his Gallade, and bring back Ash's Sceptile if there must be Mega Sceptile marketing. Why use some random OC when there are perfectly good game characters who lack proper anime counterparts? Isn't it the anime's job to promote the games?

    (And, this is unrelated to ORAS and remake promotion, but Iris deserved an appearance in XY, too. If Dawn can have a random reappearance in BW, then it was only fair that Iris got hers. Argh, why was XY so allergic to continuity?)

    Quote:
    Not just an anime, a manga as well. A so-called romantic comedy (when it's anything but romantic, or comedic for that matter). However, long story short, it's about a sap named Keitaru Urashima who tries and ends up flunking getting into college, so to tide himself over before he tries again, he stayed at what was his grandma's inn, which is currently being used as essentially a girls dorm, featuring plenty of other university rejects (and later, a child and some samurai lady person). Of course, during his stay, he gets into a huge amount of hot water from the girls from the kind of bad luck and coincidences that you'd expect to read about in one of Franz Kafka's literary works. Whether it's being there in the wrong place and at the wrong time, or simply being forced to look at them, it ends the same way every time: He gets beaten by a pulp. Heck, even when it's actually one of them who walks in on him while changing for once, he STILL gets beaten to a pulp. What's worse is that they don't bother beating each other up and if anything expose them and even at a few points fondle each other. Yes, in other words, it's very MUCH a trashy fanservice franchise, which also derives humor from the girls being huge domestic abusers and even hypocrites (and for girls who are going to college, they certainly aren't acting at all intelligent, and if anything do come across as being bimbos to be very blunt about it. Heck, the reason why they, and Urashima for that matter, are even going to college in the first place didn't even deal with studying for a future profession, either: They just wanted to meet their childhood sweethearts at College thanks to a stupid game of patty-cake). You can read more about it here.
    Ugh, sounds awful and retrograde.

    I found a pretty funny takedown of this garbage series here.

    Quote:
    And I take it you are at least familiar with the Fiorello Fangirls, right?
    Probably. It's been years since I last watched "Princess vs Princess," but I'll take your word for it.

    Quote:
    Yeah, agreed there. And I know that the XY game version of Serena at least was popular due to her being a trophy in SSB4, alongside the male protagonist in XY, so it's not like the writers aren't familiar with how well received she was.
    I guess the game version of Serena wasn't "fanservicey enough" for the show. Gotta bring in another "waifu" for the horny preteen boys (and creepy men) to drool over.

    Quote:
    Yeah, agreed, and I think even Japanese audiences could agree with you there as well, considering just how poorly Pokémon's doing in terms of ratings since AG (and quite frankly, if their intent was just to focus on the new kids, the decrease in ratings, many times sharply, indicates they did a very poor job at that.). Of anything AG onward regarding the series, the only thing that was even remotely watchable was the Manaphy movie, and that's only because the whole Samiya Sea Crown thing was interesting and besides which, it's actually relevant to Water Pokémon. In fact, I actually got the idea for some drawings of Misty and Disney's Ariel from that movie as well as Super Mario Bros. Z, the Sonic series, and Dragon Ball Z, where they gain a new Super Saiyan-esque form via the Sea Crown in direct reference to the climax where Ash essentially went Super Saiyan.

    https://otnesse.deviantart.com/art/Ariel-as-a-Super-Mermaid-469640727

    https://otnesse.deviantart.com/art/Misty-as-a-Super-Misty-front-close-up-469638640

    https://otnesse.deviantart.com/art/Misty-as-a-Super-Misty-angle-469636742

    (and yes, I did actually add gills to Misty's neck)

    Heck, I even got one idea relating to Vanessa as well from the same sources as well (as well as taking some cues on her form from Broly):

    https://otnesse.deviantart.com/art/Semi-Super-Vanessa-Sea-Crown-Shards-477516251
    Cool drawings. The Manaphy movie seems like a plot that was made for Misty, and it's unfortunate that she wasn't in the show anymore by then.
  10. BettyNewbie
    August 27th, 2017 10:52 AM
    BettyNewbie
    Quote:
    Yeah, no kidding. I know Kostas said the anime and games are different, but considering one of the main points, as much as I really hate to say it, is to advertise the games, they need to keep it at least similar enough to actually succeed in advertising the games and not do false advertising. And having the girls do something as their main goal which in the games was little more than a purely optional sidequest and trivial overall doesn't really work out all that well.
    This is especially the case with AG and later, which were far more blatant about being a glorified commercial than OS ever was. Yes, the anime always existed to market the games, but OS, at least, tried to tell its own story and have a little more ambition. On the other hand, AG and later made it clear that storytelling was secondary to game promotion, especially marketing the new monsters (and thus, selling new toys to little kids).

    This is one of the biggest reasons why I hate May, as she was the first main character to ever be brought in for the purpose of game promotion, and thus, she began the endless cycle of disposable, marketing-based traveling companions.

    Quote:
    Well, to be fair, May did come across as fairly feminine and shy if she's the rival character in Ruby and Sapphire, but even still, even her rival personality and characterization definitely was a lot more tolerable compared to her anime personality and characterization. And yeah, I see your point there. Still, at least Emerald's version of her also gave her a quite badass key art pose to compensate for her being slightly more feminine than before.
    I find it interesting that the *only* RSE-era official art I can find of anyone doing Contests actually shows Brendan instead of May:



    (And, yes, his hair is actually white in that picture!)

    Furthermore, the only RSE-era art of Brendan that looked even remotely "badass" (like most of May's) was this Trainer Hill art from Emerald. The only other art of him showed him as a coordinator, decorating a Secret Base, and being a scared damsel in distress.

    It seems that if either of the Hoenn protagonists was meant to be a girly coordinator, it was Brendan and not May.

    Quote:
    Let me be blunt, one of the reasons I utterly dislike, hate even, May and Dawn's characterizations in the anime is because it reminds me far too much of, say, the girls from Love Hina, or heck, the Fiorello Fangirls from the Kanto episode Princess vs. Princess (I think you may remember them: They were the girls who squealed like animals and proceeded to trample Ash, Brock, and James faster than the wildebeests trampled Mufasa in The Lion King, and then squealed AGAIN after the unveiling of the dolls and Fiorello Cappucino mentioned it was good to be here.). Why on earth would THAT be considered a good characterization for any of the female cast members, much less those two? Probably the only real difference is that at least May and Dawn don't beat up Ash and call him a pervert for being in the wrong place at the wrong time, or heck, even when it's them in turn who walked in on HIM by accident for a change, which is one of the OTHER reasons why I utterly hate the girls from Love Hina.
    I've never watched Love Hina, but from what I've read, it didn't seem to be anything but some trashy fanservice anime. Characters like that certainly have no place in Pokémon, or anywhere for that matter.

    Quote:
    Fully agreed there with you on CodeHelmet's idea. Having Serena actually be a quasi-rival for Ash and also a student would have been far better development for her, especially if they wanted to actually give some point to her crush besides what is ultimately a marketing gimmick that failed hard especially through various false hypes (not to mention was very poorly handled even without that. I mean, I personally prefer love at first sight to gradual love, but they also need to make sure that they actually have reciprocation to some degree, otherwise, it comes across as pointless).
    Definitely. As I said, not only would it have made for better characterization, but it would've actually reflected the role she plays in the games when you don't play as her. Kalos doesn't have Contests, so it made no sense for Serena to ever be a contest bimbo. Is the show so devoid of ideas and creativity that they can't do anything else with female PCs besides rehash May?

    Quote:
    Yeah, don't remind me on how mediocre AG was. Even without the bit about Misty being forced off the show in a tasteless manner immediately beforehand, the show had plenty of problems of its own. Like, for example, the fact that the Gym Leaders of Hoenn for some reason seemed to be depicted as grossly incompetent by having them lose to rookies for some reason (only Roxanne and Brawley came across as being genuinely skilled, since 1., Roxanne at least lost to Pikachu, a confirmed veteran, and 2., Brawley's the only one of the Gym Leaders who actually beat Ash [I'm not counting Norman, since, like I said, I suspect the only reason they had Ash lose to him was to give an excuse to bypass him and go the route of the games, since Norman obviously isn't Ash's dad unlike in the games). Not to mention, Ash got the exact same rank as in Johto, the immediate preceding league, which indicates he never actually did better than before. And while the Battle Frontier was pretty good from what I can gather, they then had Ash losing to Gary afterwards despite the latter being retired from training (and then Ash's losses in DP make it even worse by having Ash's Pikachu lose against Gym Leaders despite up and out wiping out a freaking Regice, heck, even having Pikachu lose against an Ursaring that Paul caught in Sinnoh earlier, and that was despite Paul losing to Brandon), thus treating the one major accomplishment Ash actually had in AG as a total joke. Oh, and also having a LOT of wasted opportunities to actually do continuity nods or, heck, even allowing Ash to actually visit his Pidgeot and thus fulfill his promise to it earlier (not counting the "Spurt!" opening/ending). I mean, seriously? I can understand Ash not visiting Pidgeot after completing the Orange Islands, since Professor Oak didn't exactly allow him a whole lot of time to do so due to promptly sending him to Johto to bring the GS Ball to Kurt. But during AG where he most certainly had plenty of time to do it? I'm sorry, but that's just flat out unacceptable. Say what you will about Johto and its GS Ball missed opportunity and long fillers, at least the Gym Leaders were still depicted as being very competent without making Ash look bad, not to mention Ash definitely did much better there than in the Indigo League.

    And yeah, I've already got a pretty good idea of how BW was bad news when Ash and Pikachu managed to mistake Iris for an Axew, despite her clearly not even looking like one (and most of all, she wasn't even disguised. The only other time Ash mistook a human for a Pokémon was with Officer Jenny in that wildlife preserve and him thinking she was a Chansey back in Kanto, and even there, it's at least justified due to her being largely obscured by bushes and her wearing a Chansey hat as part of a sting operation), that and losing to a clear rookie trainer in the form of Trip and later him losing to someone who by all accounts was so idiotic he made even Ash in that saga, who came across as even stupider than Original Series Ash in many respects, seem like a genius by comparison (and him getting a worse rank than before, thus potentially rivaling AG in sheer badness). Probably the few good things about that saga is the fact that, whether Iris was at all good or not, she at least averted the whole girl characterization mess May, Dawn, and to a certain extent Serena fell victim to, and it also featured the permanent return of Charizard to Ash's party after training at Charcific Valley.
    The reason all of that happened was because the show insisted on keeping Ash around instead of ending his story in Johto like originally planned. There was no way to have Ash continue without hitting the reset button, making everyone dumber, and throwing continuity out the window, which is one of many reasons why I find AG-onwards far less watchable than OS. AG was when Ash stopped being a character and became a shallow marketing tool.
  11. Charlie Brown
    August 21st, 2017 6:17 PM
    Charlie Brown
    Quote:
    We might want to take it to my VM, though, just in case the mods get irritated by our conversation.
    nah its fine you can keep that discussion in the thread :)
  12. Hikamaru
    August 17th, 2017 3:30 AM
    Hikamaru
    I was shocked that M20 is doing better in the box office than I first thought, because like you said it was a risky move removing the original characters (instead reducing them to an end credits cameo) and replacing them with someone completely different, on top of focusing on Pokemon that were not even from Kanto.

    I clearly wanted the film to flop because it could have served as a wake-up call to the writers that ignoring continuity is only going to alienate the fans.
  13. Hikamaru
    August 17th, 2017 2:30 AM
    Hikamaru
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by weedle_mchairybug View Post
    Yeah, I'm definitely doubtful they are going to have an Alolan League for this saga. They would have mentioned the league by now if they were going to do it. Not to mention thanks to them having Ash retake school (as if he ever NEEDED to go to school in the first place) instead of, I don't know, having him oversee the development of the Alola league like in the games, they didn't even have him focus on his goal. Say what you will about Best Wishes, and it definitely was a horrible show (probably the only redeeming elements are Iris and the return of Charizard), but at least it actually attempted to focus on Ash's goal, something that SM clearly is going out of its way to ignore.
    Taking it here since I hate going off-topic and causing triggered mods.

    But yes, there is a reason why Sun & Moon overtook Best Wishes for my least favourite series. While it had awful stuff like Ash being reset, Trip being an OP rival at first that Ash couldn't conquer until the league, and the worst companions to date, it did have one positive over SM which was as you said, have Ash actually focusing on his goal.

    SM has Ash showing no dedication whatsoever, only being an extremely hypo kid who overexcites at everything about Alola and focusing more on that dumb school than the actual trials. It's very clear Alola will have no league, and I can imagine all the complaints because let's admit it, when it comes to league handling in the anime no-one will like it.
  14. Hikamaru
    August 10th, 2017 6:12 PM
    Hikamaru
    I'm guessing Rowlet or Litten will become the ace. Although I'd rather it be Decidueye than Incineroar because Ash has already had two Fire-type regional aces.
  15. Hikamaru
    August 10th, 2017 2:51 AM
    Hikamaru
    Bad news. It appears Ash's new Dusk Form Lycanroc is the new Ash-Greninja since it's a special form that is unobtainable via normal gameplay and only being available by an event, in this case the US/UM launch event Rockruff.

Statistics

Total Posts
Activity by Forum
Visitor Messages
Blog
General Information
  • Last Activity: 5 Hours Ago 6:32 AM
  • Join Date: April 6th, 2005
  • Referrals: 2

Friends

Showing Friends 1 to 8 of 8

Emblems

Emblem Showcase - 3 Total
  Emblem
PC Veteran
These old folks have been around for far too long but we love them anyway.
Awarded: August 20th, 2010 8:37 AM
Pokémon Anime Phenom
Your enjoyable presence in Pokémon Anime, complemented by your quality posts, has made you one of the forum's most appreciated members!
Awarded: November 17th, 2014 10:53 PM
Member of the Year All-stars
You may not have won Member of the Year in Member of the Year, but you did place something in Member of the Year for one year.
Awarded: January 22nd, 2015 3:52 PM

All times are GMT -8. The time now is 11:45 AM.