TrollandToad.com

weedle_mchairybug weedle_mchairybug is offline

Visitor Messages

Showing Visitor Messages 1 to 15 of 176
  1. BettyNewbie
    2 Days Ago 12:14 PM
    BettyNewbie
    The biggest sign will be how much USUM's sales drop off from SM's. Doing the math on previous gens, B2W2 were the most successful "region revisit" games, dropping 45.5% from BW's sales, and Yellow was the most successful third version, dropping 53.5% from RGB's sales. On the flipside, Crystal was the least successful third version, with a massive 72.3% drop from GS' sales.

    B2W2 were clearly boosted by being sequels rather than a third version, so people who had already played BW actually had an incentive to buy those games for reasons other than completionism. USUM aren't anywhere close to being sequels, so Yellow/Crystal/Emerald/Platinum are better comparisons.

    When it comes to third versions, the ones that release late in a console's run (Crystal, Emerald) tend to get worse sales than the ones that don't (Yellow, Platinum). This is because more attention is focused on the new console and how the series will move on, so people are even less interested in an upgraded rehash game.

    USUM clearly fall into the same group as Crystal/Emerald. They're releasing at the tail end of the 3DS' lifespan and after the Switch had already come out. On top of that, GF even announced future plans for a main series Switch game only a week after USUM were first announced, so much of the fandom's attention has been on that rather than USUM. Many fans automatically wrote off USUM as a low effort stopgap designed to buy time for the upcoming Switch game, and those fans were largely proven right by the reveals and leaks.

    Given all of the above, USUM shouldn't sell any higher than 6.3/6.4 million (which is what Crystal and Emerald sold), and they could easily sell even less since Gen 7 is overall lower-selling than Gens 2 and 3, and USUM can't be played on the Switch like Crystal could be played on the GBA and Emerald could be played on the DS.
  2. BettyNewbie
    5 Days Ago 9:33 AM
    BettyNewbie
    Wanting to shift gears and change the topic, if you don't mind...


    I'm starting to wonder if USUM may turn out to be the worst-selling main series release. The games were already destined to have lower sales simply due to being third versions and releasing at the tail end of of a console generation, but on top of all of that, the reception to the games has been rather cool. Even fans who normally get hyped up for every Pokémon game are considering passing on these, and the results of the datamine only increased people's disappointment.

    While there are definitely weak links (RS, DP, XY, ORAS), the main series has yet to have a true "flop." Even at their worst, the games have still gotten passable sales and reviews no worse than "too much water." As a result, GF has become convinced that they can spit out any half-assed game, and people will still lap it up just because the box says "Pokémon." This strategy has certainly carried them through most of the 3DS era, but could it finally backfire with USUM?

    This has major implications for the anime. One big reason the show has continued for as long as it has is because the games' sales and popularity have held steady (though, never returning to the heights of the Gen 1/2 era), so TPTB have seen no reason to let go of the games' primary advertising vehicle (and its primary advertising mascot, The Eternal 10 Year Old and His Yellow Rat).

    But, what happens if USUM turn out to be a critical and commercial dud? It would obviously shock GF into making much-needed changes with their developmental and marketing strategies, but it could also spark major changes in the show. Would TPTB be more inclined to end the anime altogether, or alternately, retire The Twerp and hit the Reset Button for Gen 8?
  3. BettyNewbie
    1 Week Ago 9:43 PM
    BettyNewbie
    Quote:
    Granted, the guy's closer to being right-wing, so you might not necessarily agree with everything he says. But he does ultimately have a point in that a lot of the agendas they're pushing in their stories many times aren't even appropriate for children, let alone families which are the intended audience for those shows he's mentioning, and comics for that matter (for instance, was it truly necessary to turn Archie Comics' Riverdale from a wholesome 1950s-era storyline into a murder mystery? Or to turn Miss Grundy into a cougar? And don't get me started on how they outright scoff at classical values and treat them with disrespect. Such behavior may have even cost them their license to the Sonic comics made by them.). Plus also the fact that they are sacrificing genuine high-quality writing in the process.
    Oh, you don't have to be on either side of the political spectrum to notice the "edgification" of comics and comic book characters nowadays. Filmmakers look back on Batman & Robin's failure and the the Dark Knight Trilogy's success and think that "dark 'n gritty" is the way to go with comic book movies, and the end result is horrible movies like Man of Steel and Batman v Superman that turn characters who are supposed to be noble and heroic into brooding, violent murderers.

    The creators of RiverFAIL are operating under a similar mindset, but with the added motivation of wanting to cash in on Pretty Little Liars' success, so the end result is that Archie gets turned into a mediocre PLL ripoff, complete with statutory rapist teacher. Because, that makes it "real," you know.

    Quote:
    They'd better not. Ignoring for one minute that this is going to be the first time Alola's ever going to have a league (which would make Ash losing look even WORSE than any of the prior instances before), there's also the fact that the XY writers got into deep trouble after the Kalos league stuff where they were swamped on Twitter with complaints from both sides of the Pacific Ocean over the Kalos league results. It says a lot when even the Japanese fanbase was outraged with how they had Ash lose, and I really doubt they'd want to significantly tick off that fanbase again.
    I hope you're right. The show usually doesn't give a muk about Western audiences, but they *do* listen to the ones in their home country. It's a good sign if Japan really hated the Kalos League.
  4. BettyNewbie
    1 Week Ago 8:28 AM
    BettyNewbie
    Quote:
    Yeah, no kidding. Not to mention, I'm not even sure the average Japanese person would know who Michael Moore is, since he generally doesn't do documentaries relating to Japan. And quite frankly, ignoring his politics completely, I kinda find it rich that the writers would actually use as the basis as their movie hero [ie, the hero of the film who ISN'T Ash and his friends] a guy who has a reputation for heavily editing and falsifying his documentaries to push his point of view, manipulative editing in other words, some of which was extremely obviously done (and for the record, even if he was pushing right-wing view points, I'd STILL be harsh on him for that, so my complaint against him has absolutely nothing to do with my politics. If he's going to do documentaries, I fully expect him to be up front and honest, NO edits.).
    I've never been a huge fan of him myself, so I definitely get what you mean.

    Quote:
    Yeah, no kidding. And that's ignoring that such a practice is completely ignoring the show's target audience being children, not to mention families. And that it makes them look even WORSE due to the fact that said girls are explicitly 10 year olds, which creates a lot of negative implications.
    And, the ratings still steadily declined after OS, so it did little on that front, anyways.

    Better writing was the only thing that could save the show's ratings, and that was never going to happen as long as the show adhered to the same tired formula and let shallow monster marketing take precedence over storytelling.

    Quote:
    To be fair, even Johto still had some degree of character development especially on Misty's end, like that Marill episode, or that episode where Misty had skill with a tambourine, or even the Seaking fishing competition. But yeah, agreed with you there. They really should have retired all of them when the had the chance (though that being said, they definitely should have them actually complete their goals before retiring them). Well, at least with Alola, we may get a chance at Ash actually winning a league this time around, so we probably won't have to wait for much longer.
    I hope you're right, although people said the same thing about Kalos, and look at how that turned out. If the show still wants to keep Ash around forever, then I'm sure they'll find a way to asspull another loss.
  5. BettyNewbie
    1 Week Ago 5:36 PM
    BettyNewbie
    Quote:
    Okay, fine by me. And I probably wouldn't have mentioned the political elements of the Zoroark movie in the first place if GameFreak itself didn't make it blatant. Couldn't they just TRY to keep that movie's story politically neutral at the very least (certainly not mention any real-world inspirations for Karl or anything like that)? Is it TOO much to ask?
    Yeah, using Michael Moore as a basis for a Pokémon character probably wasn't the wisest idea, especially when the target audience is unlikely to even get the reference.

    Quote:
    No kidding. Not to mention they're the reason Misty got removed. Apparently, Takeshi Shudo had to choose between Team Rocket and Misty regarding who to remove from the main cast, and since Team Rocket were his favorite characters, Misty got the axe. Honestly, keeping them around was a mistake. They were good in Kanto, heck, even Orange Island and Johto to some extent, at least they were actually depicted as a threat from time to time. With Hoenn, however, they came across as nuisances and annoyances, and were downright pathetic, not to mention had zero real reason to even BE in Hoenn in the first place anyways, what with Team Magma and Team Aqua being around. Heck, in Movie 20, they barely even encounter Ash and co. at all, and seemed to REALLY get the Endor treatment big time regarding wild Pokémon.
    In addition of all of that, TPTB also wanted to bring in some new "eye candy," because they felt that serving up a fresh piece of meat to the perverts and horny preteen boys would be the answer to the show's sagging ratings. This is why Misty was considered more "disposable" than Brock in the first place.

    If you ask me, they should've all been written off after Johto, as was the original plan. The time that was wasted on COTD filler could've instead been used to develop the goals of Ash, Misty, Brock, and the TRio and work them towards a satisfying conclusion. As much as I hated the way Misty was thrown off the show, I also don't think the others benefited from sticking around past Johto.
  6. BettyNewbie
    1 Week Ago 11:41 AM
    BettyNewbie
    Just a heads-up -- Let's try to keep politics out of our discussions, okay? I know you're right-wing, and I'm very left-wing, and I don't want that to cause any fights. We've been getting along well, and I prefer to keep things that way.

    Quote:
    Yeah, no kidding. I mean, at least in the Anime if Giovanni had members of the other villain teams under his thumb, it would be somewhat justified since it's implied that Team Rocket may have taken over some of the regions shortly after those villainous teams, and may have absorbed the remaining criminal syndicate members (who aren't the team bosses anyway, those guys should stay out of the whole thing.).
    Even in the games, what you describe would make far more sense than "Rainbow Rocket," and would probably make for stronger storytelling, anyways. I'd much rather see what became of these evil teams after they were defeated vs some alternate universe where they "won."


    Quote:
    So, let me get this straight, they pulled a 2014 Maleficent on her? Well, okay, maybe not that serious, since even in S&M, Lusamine did have some redeemable traits such as actually caring for her daughter, while Maleficent in the 1959 version was completely irredeemable (and would have been listed as a complete monster if it weren't for that quite frankly stupid rule that mandated that we see her results of her crimes if not see her do horrific crimes on screen. Personally, I think she more than deserves to be listed as such. And honestly, I hated what Woolverton did to Maleficent since there was zero point turning her into a Darth Vader figure. She was closer to Emperor Palpatine as portrayed in Star Wars if anyone in terms of how vile she was. She was NEVER the type to be redeemable, and I'd even go as far as to say she's more evil and irredeemable than Judge Claude Frollo. At least Frollo actually took in Quasimodo, even if it WAS to save his own soul, that's still a redeemable aspect to his character, far more than what Maleficent got.).
    Pretty much. I hate this idea that female villains can't ever be straight-up evil and always need to be "redeemed." Outside of Maxie/Archie (who were never meant to be straight-up evil in the first place), none of the previous villains needed to have some "redemption" arc tacked on. They all either vanished or died after they were defeated. Why couldn't they do the same with Lusamine?

    Quote:
    That reminds me, I really should get those VC games in the future, now that I might be able to drop the boycott against Pokémon in the future thanks to their bringing Misty back. And yeah, good point there.
    There's a planned Crystal re-release, so I'd probably wait until then. I've read that Yellow completely buried RB in sales on the e-shop, so that may be why they're holding back on Crystal.

    In the small chance that Lance returns in SM, I hope he's depicted in his RBY design. That's the only version of Lance that's never been animated anywhere (GSC/FRLG Lance was animated in the anime, Origins, and Generations Ep 3, while HGSS Lance was animated in Generations Ep 4), and it would be a stronger nod to the VC re-releases.

    Quote:
    Fully agreed, and besides, I definitely think it's about high time that Team Rocket gets taken down for the count. They've been around for far too long and without any true advancements in their goal barring JJM's antics and maybe conquering parts of the Pokémon World.
    Absolutely. In fact, JJM are pretty much the main reason we've never had a big Team Rocket takedown in the first place. TPTB want to keep the Trio of Idiots around forever for comic relief purposes (even though they became stale a long time ago), and they can't keep doing that if Team Rocket is taken down for good. It's basically the same reason why Ash has yet to win a game-based League.
  7. BettyNewbie
    1 Week Ago 10:32 PM
    BettyNewbie
    Quote:
    Yeah, no kidding, and while I don't mind Giovanni himself making a reappearance, it seems unusual for him to recruit the other bad guys. I mean, Maxie and Archie buried the hatchet and decided against pursuing remaking the world, Ghetsis had a nervous breakdown and likely heart attack, and Lysandre... well, he's either going to have a heck of a time stuck underneath rubble without dying, or he's dead by this point. Probably the only one who MIGHT aid Giovanni would be Cyrus, and even with him, that's largely dependent on whether you consider Diamond and Pearl canon or Platinum canon (if the former, there's a chance, while with the latter... well, let's just say that Cyrus, even if he could leave Giratina's realm, had absolutely no interest leaving that realm in that version). Plus, he doesn't strike me as the type of guy to make alliances with other syndicates.
    This is literally nothing more than shallow fanservice, a "PWT for villains." There's no logical reason for any of these guys to team up under Giovanni (who himself is badly-characterized just so this nonsense can work).

    Even worse is the fact that their story basically involves nerfing and dumbing-down our first (and long-awaited) female villain into an innocent victim.

    Quote:
    Well, if he does make a reappearance, let's hope its a good one. Same goes for Iris, who I must admit really got ignored in Kalos. She deserves a return big time. Would really work in actually developing her character, showing how she improved. I certainly have more of an interest with her than May, Dawn, or Serena regarding returns (only one who ranks higher is Misty).
    If Dawn can get shoehorned into BW, despite neither contests or her game counterpart having any presence in the Gen 5 games, then Iris can certainly show up in SM, especially with all the new Dragon types in the games.

    While Lance got cheated out of appearing in the Alola games, he's still in the VC re-releases, and it's very evident that Misty and Brock were (at least partly) brought back to promote those. Check out Misty's Mega Evolution pose, for example:



    Look familiar?



    And, this swimsuit she wears while swimming with Lana? Exact same one from the above sprite.

    And, this, of course, needs no explanation:





    Why else would the show toss in those direct RB references if not to promote the VC re-releases?

    Given the above, I'd say that Lance has a sliver of hope, especially now that GS have been re-released. He was a central figure in helping the protagonist take town Team Rocket in Gen 2, so if the show goes in the direction of a major plot involving Giovanni and Team Rocket (in place of USUM's "Rainbow Rocket" nonsense), then that would be a good enough reason to bring back the Dragon Master and Pokémon G-Man. Add in an Iris cameo (so we can finally see an aspiring Dragon Master actually meet THE Dragon Master), and we're good to go.

    Quote:
    Or in the case of Ghetsis, was arrested. And yeah, they probably should have an arc dealing Team Rocket (JUST Team Rocket, I should add), and by that I mean the organization as a whole. Let's face it, Ash hasn't exactly dealt with the organization as a whole (or ESPECIALLY Giovanni) much. Pretty much the only times they've directly encountered each other was the Mt. Quena incident and Best Wishes (and he outright lost to him in the latter). They should resolve that one, especially if they end up having Ash win Alola this time around.
    The Lake of Rage episodes were another instance where Ash & Co. dealt with Team Rocket as an organization, though still not Giovanni directly.

    Given that Giovanni/TR have been a presence in the show since Day One (for better or worse) and the fact that "Rainbow Rocket" is primarily centered around Giovanni/TR, it makes sense to do a big Team Rocket storyline in place of what USUM are doing. Maybe, it could even involve Ash and the classmates going to Kanto (and possibly Johto) as a nod to the VC re-releases and Lillie traveling there at the end of SM.

    Quote:
    I must admit, I think this is the first generation to actually include new Pokémon within a generation, and not simply wait until the next generation to introduce new Pokémon (actual new Pokémon I mean, not simply new forms of already present Pokémon up to that generation.). Though... isn't that game supposed to be released almost a week from now, or did that game somehow break the street date? Well, hopefully, they'll do something good with the next movie either way. I heard Mewtwo made an appearance in a teaser for the film after Movie 20 (and not just any Mewtwo, the original one that we all know and love, essentially Pokémon's equivalent of Shadow the Hedgehog before Shadow himself was even an idea.).
    Someone who got an early review copy datamined and leaked the games.

    Here's the new Pokémon. (Look down at the far bottom left.) Can you say Lucario III? It even has a similar-sounding name (Zoraora) to Lucario II (Zoroark). Did we really need yet another marketing-driven bipedal mammal designed to appeal to the perverted Furry crowd? I thought that trend died when Gen 5's attempt flopped.
  8. BettyNewbie
    1 Week Ago 8:32 AM
    BettyNewbie
    Well, after seeing the USUM leaks and the number of new character cameos we're getting (or more accurately, *not* getting), the anime has already completely surpassed the games on that front.

    GF seems to think that nobody wants to see classic Kanto/Johto characters for the 20th anniversary, so we get only cheap Easter Egg references and the most basic, boring cameos (Red, Blue, Giovanni), while a bunch of seemingly random Gen 3-5 characters get brought back instead (Wally, Anabel, Looker, Cynthia, Burnet, Colress, Grimsley). Johto/Gen 2 doesn't even have a single representative in the entire game!

    The anime deserves MAJOR kudos for having the gall to do what GF refused to do and bring back Misty and Brock, complete with nifty new Mega Evolutions. Whoever's writing the SM anime clearly cares about old characters and giving them their proper spotlight for an anniversary that should be theirs.

    I hope this trend continues and we get more cameos, and not just from past companions. I'd love to see Lance return, especially if Iris makes a reappearance and the show does a big Team Rocket plot. Like Misty and Brock, his game counterpart was also cheated out of this anniversary celebration, despite being one of the iconic characters who's been there since RG. He's also a character who hasn't been seen in a very long time (not since 2004) and wasn't left off on a positive note (last appearance was the Team Magma/Aqua debacle). Lance deserves a second chance.

    Quote:
    I hope you're right, because I just received word via Serebi.net's news cycle that they're most likely going to confront Lusamine on December 7 like in the game, and if they're going to go that fast with Lusamine, I suspect the Alola League will debut shortly thereafter, and since they haven't actually announced a new Generation yet, I'm getting a pretty big suspicion that they may end up pulling off the whole Rainbow Rocket thing just to fill time for the remainder of the saga, and that's IF they're going to go for a new generation in any case.
    I wasn't aware of that, but that is a scary possibility. Still, though, bringing back all the other villains wouldn't make sense at all in the anime's universe (where they all either changed their ways or died), so it's possible that we just get a plot centered around Giovanni and Team Rocket.

    Quote:
    Yeah, agreed. And I hope it's very soon in the case of Misty and Brock's return. Again, they're going to be confronting Lusamine very soon right now based on the recent episode title announcements, which means the end for Alola may be near (though not necessarily Generation 7, since, well, they haven't actually announced Generation 8 yet. Must admit, it seems pretty unusual to wrap up Lusamine very soon right now. It's barely even entered fifty episodes. I think this is the shortest we've gotten through a region since, what? Kanto?).
    A new event Pokémon was revealed in the USUM datamine, so that will likely be the star of 2018's movie. Gen 7 has at least another year left in it.
  9. BettyNewbie
    1 Week Ago 12:52 PM
    BettyNewbie
    Okay, I see. Good luck getting your nameplates.

    It's still early, but Gen 7 may start to become a rare case where the anime surpasses the games in some respects. A big reason is the continuity-breaking "Rainbow Rocket" nonsense from USUM's postgame, which is unlikely to ever be adapted into the show like most other postgame stories and features (see also GSC E4/Kanto, Sevii Islands, Gen 4 Battle Frontier, PWT, and Zinnia/Delta Episode). Yes, a trend that has normally been a negative for the show may actually turn out to be a positive for once.

    Add in some more Misty/Brock appearances, and this is the happiest I've been with the show for a while. Hopefully, we can also get appearances from Gary, Tracey, and Iris. The three Contest Girls can go rot for all I care.
  10. BettyNewbie
    2 Weeks Ago 9:19 PM
    BettyNewbie
    What do you think will happen on November 28th?

    I hope we get more episodes with Misty and Brock in the future. Even with what we got, I already feel better about how they're being handled in SM compared to AG/DP (and Johto, to a lesser extent).
  11. DBZ fan
    October 8th, 2017 12:26 AM
    DBZ fan
    Sorry, i had trouble logging in pokecommunity lately. Something with my account and computer, as well being very busy in last few months. But yea i know, those were wonderful news and glimpse of hope for there still being chance that pokemon anime start heading in bright and correct direction. Not forgetting its roots, past and older fans.

    I already watched episodes enjoying in Misty and Brock as characters remembering how great anime used to be when Misty was around. Fact that she has mega evolution also says a lot of how much she improved in meantime, indicating she was on her own journey. Being in Kalos in order to even find out about mega evolution and acquire key and mega stone.
    Implying her dream of becoming water master haven't been completely forgotten since with mega evolving Gyarados she made one stepo forward, pretty big step in coming closer toward that dream.

    Hopefully promise of Misty and Brock traveling to Alola wont be forgotten with this Kanto arc no being last we saw from them. Because their comeback was too short not giving enough time to learn much about what has been happening with them. Have them battle and be of help to story more as well expand on their interactions and mix of personalities with other characters. But Ash as well with Misty and Ash back and forth chemistry briefly shown in those 2 episodes showing how their spark and fire is still in there enriching on atmosphere of this show helping Ash feel, more faithful to himself and his goals.
  12. BettyNewbie
    October 5th, 2017 10:29 AM
    BettyNewbie
    Sorry that I took so long to reply, but I honestly couldn't think of a good response to your message. I agree with most of what you said, and I can't really elaborate any further on most of it. That sometimes happens.

    Quote:
    Hadn't watched much of Johto, though ironically enough the fillers had absolutely nothing to do with my being driven away from that series. Actually, it's because WB did some really lame ads that ultimately drove me away from them, such as the Sock Party ad (shudders... I already have bad views of singing from Return to the Sea, don't need THAT one where Ash randomly sang broadway style about Sock partys). It also doesn't help that I was eventually growing very paranoid of people denouncing me as a baby for watching Pokémon or even Disney films thanks in large part to how Arthur acted to D.W. regarding Mary Moo Cow. In fact, the closest I've ever gotten to watching Johto was that marathon leading up to DP back in 2008, and quite frankly, I really didn't see what the fuss was all about (granted, I didn't actually see ALL of Johto as it was, but it was the closest I've come to actually watching all of it. Who knows, maybe this Christmas, I'll get a chance to actually watch the entire saga, or at least most of it [don't think the Ice Cave or another of those banned episodes involving Jynx will be there, though]). Though I'll admit, if they're going to keep Ash's Johto Pokémon unevolved, they should at the very least make sure that they gave an in-universe reason for not doing so, like with Pikachu, Bulbasaur and, to a lesser extent, Squirtle. And the Whirl Cup was definitely good as well, and it's nice to see Misty actually being able to pursue her goal, especially when we had far more of an idea of what that entailed than Ash's goal.
    I think that happened to a lot of older fans in the early 00s. We started to hit puberty just as the franchise's popularity was starting to fade, so it became extremely uncool to still like Pokémon. Combine that with the decline in the anime and the polarizing reboot of the Gen 3 games, and it's no surprise that many fans fell out of the series around 2002-2003.

    This may have had a huge negative impact on the direction of the games and (especially) show. It told TPTB that older fans weren't reliable and that catering exclusively to newbies was the way to go, hence the endless reboots and nonexistent continuity.

    Quote:
    Yeah, and the Whirl Cup was very good as well. And on the subject of gyms, I agree, though to be honest, even Kanto's gyms, I could take over the crap that were Hoenn, Sinnoh, and Unova's gyms. Say what you will about Kanto having pity badges for lack of a better term from half the gym leaders, at least most of the gym leaders there, Misty's sisters aside, were actually proven to be quite formidable and forces to be reckoned with. With Hoenn, however, with the exception of Brawley (and to a lesser extent Roxanne since she at least lost to Pikachu, an established veteran, even if he WAS the victim of level resets during that time), all of the Gym Leaders were pushovers, easily losing to rookie Pokémon on Ash's "fresh start" team. It's actually quite embarrassing to watch characters who, while not necessarily to the level of Elite 4 or Champions, were nonetheless considered to be Crème of the Crop trainers, lose as easily to Ash's rookie team as Jessie, James, and Meowth lost to that Caterpie back in Ash Catches a Pokémon (a Pokémon that was explicitly mentioned to be weak) seven-fold. I mean, it's like, I don't know, binge-watching the whole Imperial Unit on Endor, who were explicitly listed as being an entire legion of the Empire's best troops, basically being easily owned by what are essentially a bunch of animate teddy bears (you know what I'm referencing, right?). Unova's Gym Leaders were arguably worse due to Ash being an idiot there in addition to a rookie team. Even Sinnoh, while comparatively better in that at least they don't lose to rookies nearly as much, came at the cost of Ash and Pikachu themselves being depicted as incompetent, especially in light of their earlier victory over a Regice. In fact, of the regions after Kanto/Orange Islands/Johto, only Kalos came the closest to actually restoring Gym Leaders' honor and reputations as skilled trainers, without making Ash look incompetent I should add.
    It feels like Gym Leaders became secondary to COTD filler in later sagas.

    .......

    The show seems to have this weird thing about wanting to avoid using characters from the games as much as possible in favor of using OCs, even if said OC fills the exact same role a game character could've otherwise played.

    Rivals especially seem to suffer this fate. Neither Silver or Wally have ever appeared on the show, yet both have extremely close OC analogs in Paul and Sawyer, respectively. Like, why go out of your way to create a new character that's clearly based on a game character when you could just use the actual game character, instead? What's so horrible about using game characters in a show that's, y'know, supposed to promote the games?

    Of course, even when the game rival does appear, they usually still play second fiddle to the OC rival, as was the case with Barry (vs Paul), Cheren/Bianca (vs Trip), and the XY friends (vs Alain/Sawyer).

    Gary was the only game rival who was ever handled decently, and even then, his screentime dropped off massively after Kanto, and at this point, he seems to have been permanently written out of the show. Of course, we all felt the same about Misty until recently, so it's always possible that Gary may appear again.

    Quote:
    Yeah, that's another problem posed by the writers decisions regarding their choices with Ash. They really screw them out.
    And, it's always the the most underwritten E4 members, too. The likes of Karen and Will have practically no backstory or characterization in the games, whatsoever, so they could've really benefited from getting fleshed out in the anime.

    Even if Ash was never going to make it to the E4, these characters could've still easily been used as COTDs, just as Lorelei and Bruno had been back in Kanto/Orange. I don't know why the show decided to stop using E4 members as COTDs (outside of a few exceptions).
  13. BettyNewbie
    October 2nd, 2017 8:50 PM
    BettyNewbie
    Mind if I reply tomorrow? It's getting late, and I need to think of a good response.
  14. BettyNewbie
    October 2nd, 2017 9:44 AM
    BettyNewbie
    Quote:
    Yeah, agreed. We could tell that Misty and Ash were friends who had each others best interests, yet still clashed heads and got on each others nerves. And yeah, it did come across as one sided with Iris unfortunately (though that being said, I can't help but agree with her after how Ash really ended up being depicted as a huge Homer Simpson-type moron in BW).
    That's probably one reason why a lot of fans truly hate Iris. It's less about the character herself and more about her being associated with an extremely dumbed-down, childish Ash. People were already salty enough about Ash's hard reset in BW, but Iris constantly teasing him and calling him "a kid" felt like the show was rubbing it in.

    Quote:
    Agreed on all fronts, especially the Alola thing. One good thing about the Original Series that has other series pale in comparison is that there is an actual discernable growth in Ash's skillsets and characterization that we can see. Thanks to them being different series, we don't actually see it, simply being told it.
    Definitely. OS had the most natural character progression of any of the sagas. Johto Ash was clearly a stronger, more competent trainer than Kanto Ash. The only thing that went wrong is that they still didn't let Ash win at the end of Johto (although he still did better than he did in Kanto).

    Quote:
    Well, to be fair, the whole GS Ball debacle was due to a failure between the anime and movie production teams (since they wanted the GS Ball to be used in a similar manner to the games to promote it, but then someone decided to just use Celebi in a movie, and they canned it. Too bad they dropped it. I wonder if their having Ash explicitly reference the events of Movie 2 were meant as a subtle apology for ruining that promotion due to the Celebi movie?). So far as the fillers, eh, I actually managed to sit through the episodes of Johto that they showed a few years back in one sitting and was not worse for wear (the only one I missed was Don't Touch that 'Dile, and that was only because I was out getting summer reading books that time and, due to Barnes and Noble being unusually busy during that time, I couldn't make it home in time. This marathon was around the time DP premiered on Cartoon Network here in the States).
    And, the Celebi movie wasn't even that good, so that just made it even more of a waste.

    If I had to be honest, the Johto anime marked the beginning of my falling out with Pokémon in the early 00s. Constantly seeing COTD after COTD and hardly any characters or storylines from the games made Johto feel like such a drag compared to Kanto, and it also wasn't fun seeing Ash replace his iconic Kanto team with new Pokémon that were clearly weaker, inferior versions. Misty, Brock, and the TRio also felt really boring and watered-down compared to Kanto/Orange.

    That being said, though, I'll still take Johto over any of the later sagas anyday. And, Johto usually did well whenever game stuff did come up. The gyms were a major improvement over Kanto (Ash actually earned his Johto badges instead of getting half of them out of pity), and I also enjoyed the Red Gyarados episodes.

    Quote:
    Yeah, no kidding. Probably the closest they ever got to showing his breeder abilities during Johto was with the Stantler episode and the breeder convention. Beyond that... he really was screwed over, which is a shame especially when the games actually HAD a breeding mechanic that they could do. I don't know if it's due to the matter not being suitable for children or not, though I have my doubts about that since, if they thought Brock's horndog antics were suitable enough to be used as a running gag, they certainly could get away with two Pokémon mating.
    What they needed to do was give Brock an egg to raise up. Granted, they may have been unwilling to do that because of Misty's Togepi already filling the "cute baby" role, but the obvious solution to that was for Togepi to evolve. After all of the love and care Misty had given it throughout Kanto/Orange, surely it was happy enough to evolve by Johto? That way, Togepi gets new character development as a Togetic, while Brock gets an actual storyline related to his goal.

    Quote:
    Yeah, I remember that whole thing regarding how Masamitsu Hidaka feared he was a racist stereotype (though I find it rich: Since Pokémon is a Japanese anime, why would people care if he looked like a Japanese stereotype?) The whole Weatherford thing also didn't help.
    Yeah, this was around the time of the Jynx controversy, so TPTB had become extra sensitive about anything that could come off as racist. Of course, it became a moot point when Tracey was horribly-received, and fans clamored to have Brock back.

    Quote:
    Yeah, and in the case of Ash, they hadn't bothered to give ANY elaboration on his goal until DP when they stated he'll need to fight the Elite 4 and Champion to even come close to becoming Pokémon Master. Not even having him win the Battle Frontier was apparently enough for him to gain the title, especially when the Brains were strongly implied if not explicitly stated to rival the Elite 4 in terms of combat prowess.
    Which means that an unintended consequence of Ash losing all the time has been the majority of E4 members getting cheated out of ever appearing in the anime. To this date, only the Gen 1 and Gen 4 E4s have entirely appeared in the show, only the latter all appeared in the same saga. Furthermore, it seems that the Gen 2 E4 may not even exist in the anime's universe.

    Quote:
    And as far as Team Rocket, quite frankly, keeping them for AG onward proved to be a mistake, since they came across as less threatening and more annoying. If you want to make them comical, fine, go right ahead, but don't try to not make them an actual threat. The entire point of being a villain or even an antagonist is for them to be a threat to the protagonist, and not a mere annoyance that can be brushed to the side.
    Well, the biggest problem with keeping the TRio around past Johto was the simple fact that Team Rocket were no longer the villains in the games after Gen 2. Whatever screentime the TRio got was screentime that could've instead gone to the current gen's *actual* villains, and it badly showed in how the Magma/Aqua, Galactic, and Plasma arcs turned out. (Flare fared better, although it helps that they were already very badly executed in the games. The anime really couldn't screw up any worse than XY already did.)
  15. Hikamaru
    October 2nd, 2017 9:11 AM
    Hikamaru
    Yeah, but it seems like the mods still thought it was an argument.

Statistics

Total Posts
Activity by Forum
Visitor Messages
Blog
General Information
  • Last Activity: 7 Hours Ago 5:33 PM
  • Join Date: April 6th, 2005
  • Referrals: 2

Friends

Showing Friends 1 to 8 of 8

Emblems

Emblem Showcase - 3 Total
  Emblem
PC Veteran
These old folks have been around for far too long but we love them anyway.
Awarded: August 20th, 2010 8:37 AM
Pokémon Anime Phenom
Your enjoyable presence in Pokémon Anime, complemented by your quality posts, has made you one of the forum's most appreciated members!
Awarded: November 17th, 2014 10:53 PM
Member of the Year All-stars
You may not have won Member of the Year in Member of the Year, but you did place something in Member of the Year for one year.
Awarded: January 22nd, 2015 3:52 PM

All times are GMT -8. The time now is 12:37 AM.