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-   -   Need help with sub punching gengar and others. (https://www.pokecommunity.com/showthread.php?t=104330)

~Mithos~ August 31st, 2007 5:50 AM

Need help with sub punching gengar and others.
 
I need a good set for a sub punching gengar so far I got this:

[email protected] ???
lonley nature (no + or -)
252 speed 152 attack 50 sp. atk

-thunderbolt
-hypnosis
-focus punch
-subsitute


Donphan @ Choice scarf?
??? nature
??? EV's

-ice shard
-rapid spin
- ???
- ???

Garchomp
jolly nature
252 attack 252 speed 4 hp

- fire fang
- crunch
- earthquake
- dragon claw

Raichu
hardy nature (preset)
152 sp. atk 50 attack 252 speed

- surf
- thunder bolt
- volt tackle
- ???

thanks for the help, might add more pokemon later

Dark Azelf August 31st, 2007 6:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mithos Kid (Post 2830935)
I need a good set for a sub punching gengar so far I got this:

[email protected] ???
lonley nature (no + or -)
252 speed 152 attack 50 sp. atk

-thunderbolt
-Ice Punch
-focus punch
-subsitute

WOW i remember this from 3rd Generation, i think its called McIceGar or something and Covers every type now that i put ice punch in there

Donphan @ Leftovers
??? nature
??? EV's

-ice shard
-rapid spin
-Earthquake
-Stealth Rock


Changed the moveset but i dont know what EVS it should have.

Garchomp
Hasty/Lonely/Naive
252 attack 252 speed 4 hp

- Fire Blast
- Swords Dance
- earthquake
- dragon claw

[email protected]Focus Sash
hardy nature (preset)
152 sp. atk 50 attack 252 speed

- surf
- thunder bolt
- volt tackle
- Focus Blast

thanks for the help, might add more pokemon later


Changes are in Bold, but not sure about some of the EVS.

~Mithos~ August 31st, 2007 6:19 AM

well thanks for the help but gengar needs hypnosis for extra time to use focus punch, and garchomp needs to remain jolly for speed, fire fang does the same thing fire blast does, and fire blast isn't very accurate, I might add swords dance though. I was thinking focus blast was a bad idea with it having 70 acc, too much of a risk.

Dark Azelf August 31st, 2007 6:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mithos Kid (Post 2830986)
well thanks for the help but gengar needs hypnosis for extra time to use focus punch, and garchomp needs to remain jolly for speed, fire fang does the same thing fire blast does, and fire blast isn't very accurate, I might add swords dance though. I was thinking focus blast was a bad idea with it having 70 acc, too much of a risk.

Gengar doesnt need Hypnosis if your good at predicting, you switch this into something that dies to gengar and 9 times out of 10 if they are a remotely good player, they willl switch and thats when you put a Sub up.


Jolly for speed ok, but which is Why i suggested Naive and Hasty nature which are + Speed - Sp.Def and + Speed - Def respectively, to make it a mixed sweeper so thas why Fire Blast OR Flamethrower (If you want Accuracy) can be put on there, as Fire Fang will do Squat to Skarmory.


and IMO you need a better nature for Raichu, i know its great to have Surf on it, but a normal one with :

[email protected] Focus Sash
Timid/Modest Nature
252 Speed 252 SP.Att 6 Hp
- ThunderBolt
- Grass Knot
- HP Ice/Focus Blast/Thunderwave
- Nasty Plot

does the Job better.

sims796 August 31st, 2007 6:33 AM

Two questions:

1)Where is Focus Sash located, &
2)That is my exact Raichu, though Timid is best for Nasy Plot. Modest is 10% too slow.

Well, the 2nd one wasn't really a question...

Dark Azelf August 31st, 2007 6:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sims796 (Post 2831035)
Two questions:

1)Where is Focus Sash located, &
2)That is my exact Raichu, though Timid is best for Nasy Plot. Modest is 10% too slow.

Well, the 2nd one wasn't really a question...

1. Focus Sash is located in route 221 (on Pal Park route near the water), theres a guy in a hut/house, he asks to see a Pokemon of a certain level each day, first day if you show him the level you get a Blackbelt, Second day if you show him a Pokemon of that level you get an Expertbelt, third day if you show him a Pokemon of that level you get the Focus Sash.

2. Yep hes right Timid is the best nature for it with Nasty Plot.

~Mithos~ August 31st, 2007 6:43 AM

okay thanks for help then, anybody else want to comment on the whole team?

sims796 August 31st, 2007 6:54 AM

If you have a Surfing Raichu, and feel set on Surf, then Grass Knot can be replaced for Surf.

~Mithos~ August 31st, 2007 7:07 AM

okay, but I really need help on the other pokemon, I won't be using raichu that much.

Dark Azelf August 31st, 2007 7:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mithos Kid (Post 2831113)
okay, but I really need help on the other pokemon, I won't be using raichu that much.

Use what i suggested in previous posts as a guide line



I also found the Ev Spead for Donphan on Smogon for you.


nature: Impish
evs: 252 HP / 6 Atk / 252 Def

~Mithos~ August 31st, 2007 7:41 AM

thanks. i'm just going to go look around mewtwo acadamy for the other stuff.

Samson August 31st, 2007 7:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dark_Azelf (Post 2831020)
Gengar doesnt need Hypnosis if your good at predicting, you switch this into something that dies to gengar and 9 times out of 10 if they are a remotely good player, they willl switch and thats when you put a Sub up.


Jolly for speed ok, but which is Why i suggested Naive and Hasty nature which are + Speed - Sp.Def and + Speed - Def respectively, to make it a mixed sweeper so thas why Fire Blast OR Flamethrower (If you want Accuracy) can be put on there, as Fire Fang will do Squat to Skarmory.


and IMO you need a better nature for Raichu, i know its great to have Surf on it, but a normal one with :

[email protected] Focus Sash
Timid/Modest Nature
252 Speed 252 SP.Att 6 Hp
- ThunderBolt
- Grass Knot
- HP Ice/Focus Blast/Thunderwave
- Nasty Plot

does the Job better IMO.

very well said.

i personally prefer Modest since everything that is a threat to raichu outruns it anyway and will survive by means of focus sash, not speed. i also like thunderwave to cripple pokes with inevitable Choice Scarf.

Hasty on Garchomp is preferred because it makes its defense and sp defense almost equivalent at level 100. give it yache berry to take ice attacks so that it perform 2 swords dances and sweep. i would also give garchomp some sp attack evs so that it can potential harm anything that isn't prepared to take special attacks. after 2 swords dances, its attack will be high enough.

for gengar, give it at least 204 ATK evs. it won't 2HKO Blissey with focus punch without that many atk evs, and in all reality, SubPunching gar does not need that many speed evs this generation. you can focus on atk, some special attack, and about 116-180 speed evs and it will perform very well. hypnosis isn't necesarry, because as previously mentioned, substitute protects gar from further damage or infliction. but hey, if you feel confident on Hypnosis, maybe it'd be a nice change of strategy and would surprise many. problem is that with just Thunderbolt + Focus Punch for damage, gengar doesn't stand a chance against pokes like Hypno or physical walling ground types like Claydol, Donphan, and Gliscor. with sleep clause, making this Gengar work is tough.

~Mithos~ August 31st, 2007 8:00 AM

okay, but is ice punch an egg move only? I already started EV training one I caught at the old chateau since it's faster then EV training.

Towlie August 31st, 2007 1:32 PM

Do you really think a Gastly can punch anything?

But no, you get it from the move tutor in emerald.

~Mithos~ August 31st, 2007 2:02 PM

oh, I don't even have emerald =[

Dark Azelf August 31st, 2007 2:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Towlie (Post 2832386)
Do you really think a Gastly can punch anything?

But no, you get it from the move tutor in emerald.


Quote:

Originally Posted by Mithos Kid (Post 2832556)
oh, I don't even have emerald =[

No its egg moves


lol Gastly can Punch things look http://www.serebii.net/pokedex-dp/092.shtml

then Scroll right down to the bottom where it says egg moves.

~Mithos~ August 31st, 2007 2:22 PM

ok I belive I have a dusclops to breed him with.

Samson August 31st, 2007 4:12 PM

armless cloud of toxins!! release a cold chill from your fists??!!

Dark Azelf August 31st, 2007 4:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Samson (Post 2833357)
armless cloud of toxins!! release a cold chill from your fists??!!

ROFL XD


I know, but apparantly it can , according to serebii.net on Gastlys Egg moves

Azonic August 31st, 2007 4:16 PM

I hate physical Gengar, why would you SubPunch it?

Gastly can punch with its head if you haven't noticed.

~Mithos~ August 31st, 2007 4:17 PM

because, sleep + subs + focus punch = ownage.

Azonic August 31st, 2007 4:18 PM

Shadowball does more damage than SubPunching, and that only leaves 2 attacking move and one is physical... :/

Dark Azelf August 31st, 2007 4:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Penguinpal6 (Post 2833374)
I hate physical Gengar, why would you SubPunch it?

Gastly can punch with its head if you haven't noticed.

This Gengar i believe is a Skarm Bliss counter and is called MCIceGar, it was quite popular in the advanced days.

and Gastly punch with its head ??!! XD

Not one of Game Freaks better ideas, when Gyarados cant learn any flying moves =P

but, oh well im not complaining at least you dont have to get those moves from emerald onto Gengar etc.

Azonic August 31st, 2007 4:39 PM

Yea, and even wierder, Mew can learn Steel Wing... 0.0

I wish I could do that.

Well Gengar's arms are still tiny(Haunter has no arms but 2 hands 0.0) and probably can't pull off a physical move. I hate this MCIceGar erm... w/e

Richard Lynch August 31st, 2007 7:53 PM

Ohhh, THIS thread. Alright, my suggestions in BOLD

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mithos Kid (Post 2830935)
I need a good set for a sub punching gengar so far I got this:

[email protected] Leftovers
lonley nature (Lonely is +Atk, -Def)
252 speed 152 attack 50 sp. atk

-thunderbolt
-hypnosis
-focus punch
-subsitute

This Gengar is kind of a catch-22... if you're maxing out Speed and using Hypnosis, I would suggest a Mild nature and Wide Lense (or whatever increases accuracy) but with having to use him more carefully, or just the old fashioned Leftovers. With a Lonely nature, like I said before, you'd want to totally max Attack so Focus Punch is a 2KO against Blissey. In this case, use Leftovers. Ice Punch could be given over Hypnosis, since Substitute can give you a free Focus Punch when played right. But Hypnosis works well too. All in all, I'd replace Hypnosis with Shadow Ball, or else something like Claydol (or a bulky Ground type) walls you to the point of no return.

Garchomp
jolly nature
252 attack 252 speed 4 hp

- fire fang
- Swods Dance
- earthquake
- dragon claw

Garchomp has been seeing a bit of reworking, to the point where even Skarmory fears him. It's called Chain Chomp, and Samson introduced it to me, and it's been backed up with a few personal experiences at Smogon:

Garchomp @ Leftovers/Life Orb
Naive Nature (-SpDef, +Speed)
252 Special Attack, 252 Speed, 6 Attack
- Earthquake
- Swords Dance
- Fire Blast
- Draco Meteor

Or something like that. Perhaps a bit less Special Attack and more Attack, but with Swords Dance behind it, it's negotiable.

I could be completely wrong about Chain Chomp, but it seems like it could work as is. Hope this maybe helped a little bit!


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