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-   -   Which Gyrados Moveset? (https://www.pokecommunity.com/showthread.php?t=109886)

Jimmyray September 30th, 2007 1:09 PM

Which Gyrados Moveset?
 
I wanna have a few backups for my team, and I've come up with a few movesets for a Gyrados, could you tell me which one is better in your opinion? I'd rather you pick one of mine than suggest something comletely new, as it may be very awkward for me... Thanks:

[email protected]
252 Attack 252 Defense 6 Speed
Adamant

Dragon Dance
Taunt
Waterfall
Return

[email protected] Orb
252 Attack 252 Speed 6 HP
Jolly

Dragon Dance
Waterfall
Earthqake
Ice Fang

[email protected]
252 Attack 252 Speed 6 Defense
Adamant

Dragon Dance
Taunt
Earthquake
Waterfall

Thanks

~Jimmyray

Sora_8920 September 30th, 2007 1:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jimmyray (Post 2947451)
I wanna have a few backups for my team, and I've come up with a few movesets for a Gyrados, could you tell me which one is better in your opinion? I'd rather you pick one of mine than suggest something comletely new, as it may be very awkward for me... Thanks:

[email protected]
252 Attack 252 Defense 6 Speed
Adamant

Dragon Dance
Taunt
Waterfall
Return

[email protected] Orb
252 Adamant 252 Speed 6 HP
Jolly

Dragon Dance
Waterfall
Earthqake
Ice Fang

[email protected]
252 Attack 252 Speed 6 Defense
Adamant

Dragon Dance
Taunt
Earthquake
Waterfall

Thanks

~Jimmyray

Tauntdos is easily predicted so, middle one.

Anti September 30th, 2007 1:11 PM

Gyarados fails w/o taunt and DD IMO, since skarm can roar it away w/o taunt, and it doesn't have potent power w/o DD. Then EQ and waterfall would be good for the last two slots...

You might wanna check those EV spreads a bit though...doesn't need 252 speed.

Sora_8920 September 30th, 2007 1:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anti-Pop Culture Warrior 13 (Post 2947461)
Gyarados fails w/o taunt and DD IMO, since skarm can roar it away w/o taunt, and it doesn't have potent power w/o DD. Then EQ and waterfall would be good for the last two slots...
You might wanna check those EV spreads a bit though...doesn't need 252 speed.

This is easily predictible like I said. He will switch out.

Anti September 30th, 2007 1:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Itachi 2007 (Post 2947468)
This is easily predictible like I said. He will switch out.

who will switch out? The only gyarados set I actually recommend is tauntrados...the others don't work well. And gyara doesn't need all that speed and attack when it already has DD...try making it more bulky.

Sora_8920 September 30th, 2007 1:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anti-Pop Culture Warrior 13 (Post 2947473)
who will switch out? The only gyarados set I actually recommend is tauntrados...the others don't work well. And gyara doesn't need all that speed and attack when it already has DD...try making it more bulky.

Skarm will switch out on Taunt. Because he will predict it before it's even used.

sims796 September 30th, 2007 1:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Itachi 2007 (Post 2947468)
This is easily predictible like I said. He will switch out.

Itachi, I use Tauntdos, and I swept MANY teams. If they switch, BAM. I use DD, while they switch. Or Taunt, allowing him to set up a DD.

Anti September 30th, 2007 1:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Itachi 2007 (Post 2947479)
Skarm will switch out on Taunt. Because he will predict it before it's even used.

Wah Wah! Poor skarm need a hug? MUHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! That is why I love tauntrados, to destroy skarm like the ugly iron bird it is. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! That pretty much explains why tauntrados is the best...it can sweep teams too, w/o having to worry about PHazers and hazers.

Sora_8920 September 30th, 2007 1:19 PM

Hmm. I guess it works pretty well. But yeah, getting swept away after a DD isn't funny.

sims796 September 30th, 2007 1:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Itachi 2007 (Post 2947520)
Hmm. I guess it works pretty well. But yeah, getting swept away after a DD isn't funny.

So you recall our match, eh?

Jimmyray September 30th, 2007 1:21 PM

But it doesn't really need EQ either because Return has better base power, and Waterfall + Return covers pretty much everything, including annoying levitaters like Bronzong and Weezing XD

sims796 - I beat your Gyarados with my Dragonite, which then carried on to kill the rest of your team, remember?

sims796 September 30th, 2007 1:23 PM

Then Electrivire has a field day, if it catches you before you get DD in. And if your worried bout Zong, Return damn sure won't help.

Sora_8920 September 30th, 2007 1:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sims796 (Post 2947525)
So you recall our match, eh?

We had a match with Tauntdos? I don't remember me or you using Taunt to counter Skarm. Or better yet, having a Skarmory. But what I do remember is you using taunt on one of my pokes. Blissey?

sims796 September 30th, 2007 1:25 PM

No, Spiderpig. Caught it while you were using Reflect.

Anti September 30th, 2007 1:26 PM

See, return has better base power by 2 I believe, maybe 4. WHAT A DIFFERENCE!!! But no. EQ has far better coverage. Waterfall deals with flyers and levitators. Besides, steel is one of the most common types, and they lol at return, and some even at waterfall. That is where EQ comes in. Bye bye metagross! Bye bye steelix! Get it?

Sora_8920 September 30th, 2007 1:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sims796 (Post 2947553)
No, Spiderpig. Caught it while you were using Reflect.

Ah, Grumpig. I was using a uu then for a change, and i'm using another Uu now. Honchrow with Insomnia. (Sp)? i'm copying you now, except with a different bird. :P

sims796 September 30th, 2007 1:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jimmyray (Post 2947529)
But it doesn't really need EQ either because Return has better base power, and Waterfall + Return covers pretty much everything, including annoying levitaters like Bronzong and Weezing XD

sims796 - I beat your Gyarados with my Dragonite, which then carried on to kill the rest of your team, remember?

And that proves?

Fact is, with Return, you won't beat Zong. EQ has greater coverage. If your so scared of Nite, then get Stone Edge.

Anti September 30th, 2007 1:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sims796 (Post 2947576)
And that proves?

Fact is, with Return, you won't beat Zong. EQ has greater coverage. If your so scared of Nite, then get Stone Edge.

What sims said. Return is only good on normal pokes for the most part. And yeah, Bronzong still laughs at you. Return was used on it in 3rd gen only, and HP flying was better than anyways. Point is, return is more f a novelty on Gyara, since there are far batter options.

Sora_8920 September 30th, 2007 1:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sims796 (Post 2947576)
And that proves?

Fact is, with Return, you won't beat Zong. EQ has greater coverage. If your so scared of Nite, then get Stone Edge.

Any steel type, imo. (With Return). Fortress, would Spike you if you didn't have Taunt.

Dark Azelf September 30th, 2007 1:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anti-Pop Culture Warrior 13 (Post 2947556)
See, return has better base power by 2 I believe, maybe 4. WHAT A DIFFERENCE!!! But no. EQ has far better coverage. Waterfall deals with flyers and levitators. Besides, steel is one of the most common types, and they lol at return, and some even at waterfall. That is where EQ comes in. Bye bye metagross! Bye bye steelix! Get it?

I had the exact same problem and so did Sims i believe.




I chose Ice Fang and EQ, because other Gyarados, Dragons and Tangrowth lol at you otherwise and the majority of people use Dragons, although it lacks STAB, it has better coverage.


Any ways the EVS for it are 212 HP / 16 ATT / 180 DEF / 100 SPEED.

Does Return work well on it from anyones personal experience ?

sims796 September 30th, 2007 1:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anti-Pop Culture Warrior 13 (Post 2947581)
What sims said. Return is only good on normal pokes for the most part. And yeah, Bronzong still laughs at you. Return was used on it in 3rd gen only, and HP flying was better than anyways. Point is, return is more f a novelty on Gyara, since there are far batter options.

Ice Fang, Stone Edge, Waterfall, EQ...

Why would you need Return?

EDIT:NO, DARK. I TRIED IT.

Jimmyray September 30th, 2007 1:33 PM

Most of the counters of a Gyardos are Elctric types like:
Raichu
Electivire
Zapdos
Electrode
Jolteon

Return can OHKO all of these, but EQ can't. Also, you say Waterall takes care of all flyers easily? Skarmory? Articuno? Salamence? Dragonite? Other Gyarados'? Return can also OHKO these.

Anti September 30th, 2007 1:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sims796 (Post 2947595)
Ice Fang, Stone Edge, Waterfall, EQ...

Why would you need Return?

My point exactly...there are so many better options. Return failed me so many times I actually rebred for HP flying in emerald...that bad.

EDIT: Jimmyray, raichu isn't a gyarados counter. And what do you mean, EQ OHKOs all of those pokemon, except zapdos, which waterfall takes care of. None of those are gyara counters...really, your calculations are WAAAYYYYY off, I mean WAY off. I've never seen such inaccuracy in my life.

sims796 September 30th, 2007 1:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jimmyray (Post 2947604)
Most of the counters of a Gyardos are Elctric types like:
Raichu
Electivire
Zapdos
Electrode
Jolteon

Return can OHKO all of these, but EQ can't. Also, you say Waterall takes care of all flyers easily? Skarmory? Articuno? Salamence? Dragonite? Other Gyarados'? Return can also OHKO these.

Did you just say EQ CANNOT OHKO those? Are you crazy?

Also, Reurn will NOT OHKO Skar.

Jimmyray September 30th, 2007 1:36 PM

I have lot's of personal experience. Return actually OHKO'd my entire (all 6 pokes) from a really top quality battler (Pythonkid)

Sora_8920 September 30th, 2007 1:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sims796 (Post 2947616)
Did you just say EQ CANNOT OHKO those? Are you crazy?Also, Reurn will NOT OHKO Skar.

Um. Yeah, the only thing that won't be Ohko'ed out of that list is Zapdos.

Jimmyray September 30th, 2007 1:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sims796 (Post 2947616)
Did you just say EQ CANNOT OHKO those? Are you crazy?

Also, Reurn will NOT OHKO Skar.

So your saying EQ OHKO's Zapdos? Really? That's new.

Dark Azelf September 30th, 2007 1:38 PM

It depends on what you want Jimmy


Ice Fang and Earthquake for coverage.

Waterfall and Earthquake for raw power.

Damn i wish Hidden Power was still Physical.............


Anyways Bronzong wont really do much, only thing it can really do is Blow the Hell up or if they use a rare one with Charge Beam.

Anti September 30th, 2007 1:39 PM

dude...

you don't know what a counter is...jolteon isn't a counter for Gyara, it can't switch into it.

As mentioned earlier, return doesn't OHKO skarm...no physical move does.

I honestly loled at that claim. EQ>>>>>>>>>>return. i"ve played pokemon for years dude...your calculations were WAY off.

EDIT: I lol at return...really. Your "experience" must've been REALLY messed up dude.

Jimmyray September 30th, 2007 1:39 PM

I think I'm going with Return + Waterfall.

Anti-Pop ~ I happen to KNOW for an actual FACT that Return is better. Thanks for all your help though :D

sims796 September 30th, 2007 1:40 PM

Wow. I missed Zapdos. Call the cops.

He has far too many options to say he needs Return for Coverage.

Please, explain why Return is better.

Sora_8920 September 30th, 2007 1:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sims796 (Post 2947640)
Wow. I missed Zapdos. Call the cops.

He has far too many options to say he needs Return for Coverage.

Return won't be doing anything. It doesn't say "super effective" on anything, which means it has no typ coverage or whatever.

Anti September 30th, 2007 1:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jimmyray (Post 2947636)
I think I'm going with Return + Waterfall.

Anti-Pop ~ I happen to KNOW for an actual FACT that Return is better. Thanks for all your help though :D

dude, I'm not trying to be a jerk, but I have to be honest, right? Yeah, I lost a lot of respect for you with your statemant...one pokemon resists EQ...zapdos, big deal. Use waterfall to hammer it hard, easy.

That must be one messed up dictionary you're reading, because EQ is better than return. We're all telling you the same thing...Return OHKOs nothing EQ can't, except flyers. And guess what? If you're worried about that, give it ice fang over waterfall, which takes out that zapdos you were talking about...

and gyara just uses taunt to skarmory, so it'll have to switch out, since drill peck does lol to it. It is so simple.

sims796 September 30th, 2007 1:45 PM

I have no problem with him, but I would like him to explain what Return hits that EQ/SE doesn't.

Jimmyray September 30th, 2007 1:46 PM

I already tried... But you all seem to think EQ. Let's just say it will sweep more pokemon with Return. Take an example battle:
WITH EQ:
Jamie sends out Gyarados:
Some Guy sends out Salamence
Jamie uses... wait.. uhm.. Taunt? No... Uhm... Waterfall? Na... EQ? Damn it...

With Return:
Jamie sends out Gyarados
Some Guy sends out Salamence
Jamie uses Return
Salamence dies

Stone Edge = No, because I don't have the TM and it has bad other type coverage for a Gyarados.

Anti September 30th, 2007 1:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sims796 (Post 2947671)
I have no problem with him, but I would like him to explain what Return hits that EQ/SE doesn't.

this thread just makes me lol. Return has horrid coverage. EQ hits those electric types it fears so much...simple logic. I have a problem when he says his opinion is a fact. I lol at the notion.

EDIT: As for your example Jimmyray, ther eis this little move called ice fang it learns...far better than return. And Mence has intimidate. you'd have to DD up quite a bit to OHKO it.

sims796 September 30th, 2007 1:48 PM

Same senario:


Jamie sends Gya
sims sends Mence
Jamie uses SE
Mence is KOed


I must run to the store for batteries...

Sora_8920 September 30th, 2007 1:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anti-Pop Culture Warrior 13 (Post 2947658)
dude, I'm not trying to be a jerk, but I have to be honest, right? Yeah, I lost a lot of respect for you with your statemant...one pokemon resists EQ...zapdos, big deal. Use waterfall to hammer it hard, easy.

That must be one messed up dictionary you're reading, because EQ is better than return. We're all telling you the same thing...Return OHKOs nothing EQ can't, except flyers. And guess what? If you're worried about that, give it ice fang over waterfall, which takes out that zapdos you were talking about...

and gyara just uses taunt to skarmory, so it'll have to switch out, since drill peck does lol to it. It is so simple.

EQ is a must need on ALL physical sweepers. Base power 100 acc. 100. Base Power depends on happiness which is now weakened by wi-fi battles, which you no longer need to train them to level 100 anymore. and you do it at such a low level, it won't have much effect. acc. 100 More power and 100 acc.? Yes. Power depends but is now weakened 100 acc.? No.

Anti September 30th, 2007 1:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sims796 (Post 2947688)
Same senario:


Jamie sends Gya
sims sends Mence
Jamie uses SE
Mence is KOed


I must run to the store for batteries...

Ice fang does the same...and both have far better coverage.

Dark Azelf September 30th, 2007 1:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jimmyray (Post 2947676)
I already tried... But you all seem to think EQ. Let's just say it will sweep more pokemon with Return. Take an example battle:
WITH EQ:
Jamie sends out Gyarados:
Some Guy sends out Salamence
Jamie uses... wait.. uhm.. Taunt? No... Uhm... Waterfall? Na... EQ? Damn it...

With Return:
Jamie sends out Gyarados
Intimidate Cuts Salmences Attack
Some Guy sends out Salamence
Intimidate Cuts Gyarados Attack
Jamie uses Return
Salamence uses Draco meteor :)

However you missed out a couple of points that i will edit in.


You want to hit Super Effective on it, if Salamence is damaged you will KO it, you wont when its not Super Effective like Return isnt

Anti September 30th, 2007 2:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dark_Azelf (Post 2947723)
However you missed out a couple of points that i will edit in.


You want to hit Super Effective on it, if Salamence is damaged you will KO it, you wont when its not Super Effective like Return isnt

Yeah...pretty much. Return is simply outclassed by Stone edge, ice fang, waterfall, and EQ...4 options to put ahead of it. how many physical sweepers do you see return on? Physical tanks and walls? Yeah, almost none...but, look at EQ...the most common move in the game, and for a good reason.

Dark Azelf September 30th, 2007 2:06 PM

and at the end of the day Return is used because of the STAB factor, on things like Snorlax and Slaking, and which is why you never see Metagross and stuff with Return.

Anti September 30th, 2007 2:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dark_Azelf (Post 2947794)
and at the end of the day Return is used because of the STAB factor, on things like Snorlax and Slaking, and which is why you never see Metagross and stuff with Return.

Exactly. We aren't trying to flame you, jimmyray, but we have facts to back up our conclusion. You really do not. EQ is common for a reason. Ice Fang is better if you fear flyers like mence...not return. Return doesn't even OHKO Mence...intimidate FTW!

sims796 September 30th, 2007 2:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jimmyray (Post 2947676)
I already tried... But you all seem to think EQ. Let's just say it will sweep more pokemon with Return. Take an example battle:
WITH EQ:
Jamie sends out Gyarados:
Some Guy sends out Salamence
Jamie uses... wait.. uhm.. Taunt? No... Uhm... Waterfall? Na... EQ? Damn it...

With Return:
Jamie sends out Gyarados
Some Guy sends out Salamence
Jamie uses Return
Salamence dies

Stone Edge = No, because I don't have the TM and it has bad other type coverage for a Gyarados.

Bad other type coverage? Rock & Water hits EVERY SINGLE TYPE! I can understand not having the TM (which can be found in the Battle Tower, no fun) but no coverage? Thats nonsense.

Sora_8920 September 30th, 2007 2:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anti-Pop Culture Warrior 13 (Post 2947813)
Exactly. We aren't trying to flame you, jimmyray, but we have facts to back up our conclusion. You really do not. EQ is common for a reason. Ice Fang is better if you fear flyers like mence...not return. Return doesn't even OHKO Mence...intimidate FTW!

To announce: I should've changed my name to Aoi, if only I had been keeping up with Naruto shows instead of sleeping thorough them. I'll do that once i'm avalible for name changing again.

sims796 September 30th, 2007 2:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anti-Pop Culture Warrior 13 (Post 2947813)
Exactly. We aren't trying to flame you, jimmyray, but we have facts to back up our conclusion. You really do not. EQ is common for a reason. Ice Fang is better if you fear flyers like mence...not return. Return doesn't even OHKO Mence...intimidate FTW!

He is right. We know you ara good, but your facts makes no sense.

Anti September 30th, 2007 2:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sims796 (Post 2947825)
Bad other type coverage? Rock & Water hits EVERY SINGLE TYPE! I can understand not having the TM (which can be found in the Battle Tower, no fun) but no coverage? Thats nonsense.

That would be those facts I was tyalking about. however, return is useful in 3rd gen if you are totally fed up with breeding for HP flying (is HP flying better though). Still, both have EQ...the common denominator.

EDIT: Jeez, you people get your posts on here fast!

Shiraishi September 30th, 2007 2:13 PM

How does rock/water hit every single type ._.;

Anti September 30th, 2007 2:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cakekun (Post 2947850)
How does rock/water hit every single type ._.;

Stone Edge and EQ do at least, that's all I need to know. Coverage is key...

Sora_8920 September 30th, 2007 2:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cakekun (Post 2947850)
How does rock/water hit every single type ._.;

Maybe he was joking? Idk if he was doing that though, seemed like he was serious.

Dark Azelf September 30th, 2007 2:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cakekun (Post 2947850)
How does rock/water hit every single type ._.;

i think it hits for at least neutral on everything, unless im missing something.

sims796 September 30th, 2007 2:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cakekun (Post 2947850)
How does rock/water hit every single type ._.;

Lets see:

Water hits
ICE
FIRE
STEEL
BUG
ELECTRIC
ROCK
POISON
DARK
PSYCHIC
FLYING
GHOST
GROUND
FIGHTING

It does not hit
WATER
GRASS
DRAGON
NORMAL

Wait, ROCK does!

Anti September 30th, 2007 2:21 PM

Quagsire w/ water absorb counters that...but there are boltbeam counters, so yeah. Ice fang and EQ have tremendous coverage too together.

sims796 September 30th, 2007 2:24 PM

What Quagsire? Ooh I'm scared of that :laugh: One, maybe two DD will beat that with SE. But yes, Ice Fang & Earthquake has the best coverage.

Dark Azelf September 30th, 2007 2:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anti-Pop Culture Warrior 13 (Post 2947904)
Quagsire w/ water absorb counters that...but there are boltbeam counters, so yeah. Ice fang and EQ have tremendous coverage too together.

I find its also unexpected aswell, people usually send in a dragon thinking i have just waterfall and Eq and then they eat Ice Fang lol

Anti September 30th, 2007 2:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sims796 (Post 2947926)
What Quagsire? Ooh I'm scared of that :laugh: One, maybe two DD will beat that with SE. But yes, Ice Fang & Earthquake has the best coverage.

Actually, I think earthslide does...EQ and stone edge though. May be wrong, but all these examples are the perfect exa,ple of why return is lol on it...there are better options, period.

EDIT: BE AFRAID OF QUAGSIRE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Dark Azelf September 30th, 2007 2:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anti-Pop Culture Warrior 13 (Post 2947930)
Actually, I think earthslide does...EQ and stone edge though. May be wrong, but all these examples are the perfect exa,ple of why return is lol on it...there are better options, period.

EDIT: BE AFRAID OF QUAGSIRE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

XD Quagsire

Meh you still get walled by Zong, who just resorts to Exploding or Charge beaming you.

ice Fang and Eq, and Eq and SE probably have about the same coverage.

EDIT: You also get walled by Claydol with EQ and SE.

Anti September 30th, 2007 2:30 PM

Still, claydol doesn't take that much damage from waterfall or ice fang eiother, though a few DDs and it is gone. Ice fang/waterfall/stone edge + EQ are the best moves for the last two slots...EQ FTW!

Sora_8920 September 30th, 2007 2:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dark_Azelf (Post 2947941)
XD Quagsire

Meh you still get walled by Zong, who just resorts to Exploding or Charge beaming you.

ice Fang and Eq, and Eq and SE probably have about the same coverage.

EDIT: You also get walled by Claydol with EQ and SE.

BE AFRAID OF BRONZONG! Lol.

sims796 September 30th, 2007 2:41 PM

As it is, Gya cannot hit everythihg. Choose something and go after it. I beat Ludicolo with EQ & three DD's.

Anti September 30th, 2007 2:51 PM

Yeah, truth is, every pokemon is walled by something. Pick and choose. Pick and choose. ICe fang ans EQ is my fav combo...

Sora_8920 September 30th, 2007 2:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sims796 (Post 2948000)
As it is, Gya cannot hit everythihg. Choose something and go after it. I beat Ludicolo with EQ & three DD's.

I would run this set: DD/EQ/Taunt/Ice Fang. Ice Fang and EQ for Type coverage. DD to make those moves for raw-power. And Taunt, like said, is for Skarm.

sims796 September 30th, 2007 2:53 PM

Taunt is for more than Skarm. It allows you to set up. I use Waterfall over Ice Fang. Power over coverage. But thats just me.

Anti September 30th, 2007 2:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sims796 (Post 2948047)
Taunt is for more than Skarm. It allows you to set up. I use Waterfall over Ice Fang. Power over coverage. But thats just me.

Yeah. I prefer coverage, because my team had trouble with Chomp and Mence...but yeah. Gyara stops hazers in their tracks with taunt. It is why quagsire (which learns haze) isn't the ultimate gyara counter:)

Jimmyray September 30th, 2007 3:26 PM

Lol, I just did a test to see who was better out EQ/IFados and returnados, and guess who won?

Anti September 30th, 2007 3:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jimmyray (Post 2948225)
Lol, I just did a test to see who was better out EQ/IFados and returnados, and guess who won?

Why don't you tell us. Don't even say return, we've already backed our opinions up with facts.

Jimmyray September 30th, 2007 3:31 PM

I'm on my wii, so I can't realy type... I'll explain why it was Returnados tomorrow.

Anti September 30th, 2007 3:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jimmyray (Post 2948255)
I'm on my wii, so I can't realy type... I'll explain why it was Returnados tomorrow.

No you won't! you have NO facts to back that up. How exactly did you test this? How was this done? You have given us no proof, so until proven otherwise, we are right, return fails on gyarados. Didn't you read my freakin' PM?

EDIT: I'll make this simple Jimmyray...

-Ice Fang and EQ cover everything...return has terrible coverage. Walled by rock, steel, and ghost types. That's a lot of pokemon. Ironically, the move that would pair with it the best is EQ, since it hurts rock and steel types a lot. Still, that pair would fail, since Bronzong, skarm, gengar, etc. would laugh at you.

Now, replacing return with ston edge gives you trememndous coverage (earthslide, but w/ stone edge). Now you cover all those dreaded pokemon you briought up in your previous posts. All of a sudden, you hit almost any pokemon with a solid hit, with a few exceptions. But, every pokemon is walled by something, so you have to decide what you're going to get walled by.

Okay, next option. Waterfall and EQ. Both have great power with Gyara, as one gets STAB and the other has great base power. Even though there are quite a few pokemon that wall that, the overall power of both moves allows for nice power, even if it "is not very effective," assuming you've got at least one DD in. Basically, this is power over coverage.

Last option...ice fang and EQ, my favorite combo. Flyers? Dead. Dragons? Dead. Electric types? Dead. It has tremendous coverage, but not overwheling power. It is a lovely combo that hits a lot of its counters. Not much more to say. While walled by bronzong again, all pokemon are walled by something...just scout for bronzong at the beginning of the battle, take it out, and proceed by sending out Gyara.


Okay, notice those all have EQ? Without it, many electric types that normally aren't gyara counters suddenly turn into gyara counters, and it falls much easier. therefor, EQ is a must on it, for its own survival.

Therefore, if you were to use return, you'd get squashed. Gengar, bronzong, etc. would wall you far worse than the other combos I mentioned and you are kinda hopeless. Okay, so then you want to get rid of EQ to keep return. Then the electric types lol at you.



You see, return fails on gyarados, because it doesn't give it the necessary coverage to be a huge threat in the metagame like the other gyaras I posted are.



I'm a pokemon nerd, geek, I have no life, so you'd hope I'd be good at what I like. I just so happen to be a very good battler. Not tremndous and legendary, but good. You should listen Jimmyray, you'd benefit a lot.

Alter Ego October 1st, 2007 3:46 AM

Well, Anti-Pop Culture Warrior 13 covered it pretty well, but to make his long story short:

STABless Return fails because it gets no super effective hits. Now with STAB, we're still looking at a 153-power move, which is nothing to sneeze at, but on Gyarados it's a measly 102. Waterfall, on the other hand, enjoys STAB (Raising it up to 120 effective power) in addition to nailing a number of weaknesses and having a respectable flinch rate. Earthquake is 100 base, which is marginally below Return on a normal hit, but it is super effective against the one type Gyarados really loathes going up against: Electrics. Now what types won't quake and Waterfall hurt properly? Ground and Water don't match up well against Grass, and Flying types avoid quake (Water/Flying and Grass/Flying also weathering Waterfall fairly well) and this is where the third move comes in: Ice Fang is a great fit, since it not only has the freeze and flinch rate to its name but is also super effective against...ta-dah, Grass and Flying types. The pokes with levitate will also either have an ice weak or take neutral damage from Waterfall. In other words, while Ice Fang's base power is a measly 65, we're only using it as a super effective attack so it will effectively turn to 130 or even 260, depending on the target. EQ is also used largely for super effective hits (200 or 400 effective base power) and Waterfall stands at a solid 120 even without being super effective, so all of them are superior to Return's lackluster 102 base power. Plus, all of these moves have an effect outside of dealing damage (although Earthquake's will only become relevant if your opponent is a clueless N00B in love with Dig) giving them another benefit to their name.

So yeah, unless we're dealing with a Normal type or a pokémon with an absolutely craptastic movepool there's no reason to even consider Return. =O That 'test' was obviously a load of BS to have reached such an absurd result, probably done with an otherwise failing movepool (or some very bad gameplay) on the EQ Gyarados' part, because there's no rational backing for using Return on a Gyarados. xP

Jimmyray October 1st, 2007 8:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anti-Pop Culture Warrior 13 (Post 2948269)
No you won't! you have NO facts to back that up. How exactly did you test this? How was this done? You have given us no proof, so until proven otherwise, we are right, return fails on gyarados. Didn't you read my freakin' PM?

EDIT: I'll make this simple Jimmyray...

-Ice Fang and EQ cover everything...return has terrible coverage. Walled by rock, steel, and ghost types. That's a lot of pokemon. Ironically, the move that would pair with it the best is EQ, since it hurts rock and steel types a lot. Still, that pair would fail, since Bronzong, skarm, gengar, etc. would laugh at you.

Now, replacing return with ston edge gives you trememndous coverage (earthslide, but w/ stone edge). Now you cover all those dreaded pokemon you briought up in your previous posts. All of a sudden, you hit almost any pokemon with a solid hit, with a few exceptions. But, every pokemon is walled by something, so you have to decide what you're going to get walled by.

Okay, next option. Waterfall and EQ. Both have great power with Gyara, as one gets STAB and the other has great base power. Even though there are quite a few pokemon that wall that, the overall power of both moves allows for nice power, even if it "is not very effective," assuming you've got at least one DD in. Basically, this is power over coverage.

Last option...ice fang and EQ, my favorite combo. Flyers? Dead. Dragons? Dead. Electric types? Dead. It has tremendous coverage, but not overwheling power. It is a lovely combo that hits a lot of its counters. Not much more to say. While walled by bronzong again, all pokemon are walled by something...just scout for bronzong at the beginning of the battle, take it out, and proceed by sending out Gyara.


Okay, notice those all have EQ? Without it, many electric types that normally aren't gyara counters suddenly turn into gyara counters, and it falls much easier. therefor, EQ is a must on it, for its own survival.

Therefore, if you were to use return, you'd get squashed. Gengar, bronzong, etc. would wall you far worse than the other combos I mentioned and you are kinda hopeless. Okay, so then you want to get rid of EQ to keep return. Then the electric types lol at you.



You see, return fails on gyarados, because it doesn't give it the necessary coverage to be a huge threat in the metagame like the other gyaras I posted are.



I'm a pokemon nerd, geek, I have no life, so you'd hope I'd be good at what I like. I just so happen to be a very good battler. Not tremndous and legendary, but good. You should listen Jimmyray, you'd benefit a lot.

After I'm DD'd up, Waterfall would kill steel types, and as for Rock Types, I have Waterfall as well, even if I'm not DD'd up.

Bronzong ~ It's never the first pokemon, Gyarados should have been danced up enough to either kill Bronzong with Waterfall, or taunt it, which leaves Gyro Ball and Earthquake and Psychic which either aren't very effective, ir aren't effective at all...

Skarmory ~ Pretty much the same thing, except you'd obviously go for taunt straight away.

Gengar ~ Since when could Gengar survive waterfall?

Anti October 1st, 2007 8:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jimmyray (Post 2950697)
After I'm DD'd up, Waterfall would kill steel types, and as for Rock Types, I have Waterfall as well, even if I'm not DD'd up.

Bronzong ~ It's never the first pokemon, Gyarados should have been danced up enough to either kill Bronzong with Waterfall, or taunt it, which leaves Gyro Ball and Earthquake and Psychic which either aren't very effective, ir aren't effective at all...

Skarmory ~ Pretty much the same thing, except you'd obviously go for taunt straight away.

Gengar ~ Since when could Gengar survive waterfall?

Let's face it...nothing gyarados has can beat bronzong or skarmory, unless you get in 6 DDs...I mean, you can taunt them and they'll switch, so you won't need to worry about them anyways, thus they should be eliminated from the argument.

You totally missed the point on gengar. Gyara needs EQ so electric types don't come in and laugh at gyarados. With simple prediction, they can switch in and OHKO gyara. You can't assume it will have DDs in...if you do, when you aren't powered up, that assumption will come and bite you in the butt. Zapdos is a nice coujnter for gyara, unless you give it stone edge or ice fang, which I'll get into later.

Becasue of the reasons I just posted, even you, Jimmyray, must admit gyara needs EQ to deal with its biggest weakness, since it is far from a guarentee that a waterfall not powered from DD will OHKO gyara's threats...therefore, it needs EQ.

So, we now have taunt, DD, and EQ. This is where gengar comes back into play. Since gyara needs EQ pretty much, if you gave it return, gengar would laugh at you. EQ...levitate! Return doesn't effect it...so since EQ is needed, return isn't an option...because far too many pokemon wall it. Agiligross can switch in, set up, and OHKO gyara w/ thunderpunch too...and Vire lols at gyara that doesn't carry EQ.

Which brings me to my next point. Any GOOD battler you fight will have good prediction skills...the minute your opponent realizes you were stupid enough to put return on gyara, gengar or zapdos comes in and will force you to switch, meaning they have a free turn to do as they wish and lol at you. Any steel also lols at return, or even rock type (both types in which all their pokemon have generally good defense). So rhyperior could come in and OHKO with stone edge, at least the common CB version.

the other options above give you far more coverage so that you aren't walled by every pokemon on the planet except bidoof and zigzagoon.

If you still refuse to listen and feel gyara needs a normal move (even though it doesn't gain STAB and has much poorer coverage than ice fand, stone edge, and even waterfall), then use double edge. It has a bit more power and might.../MIGHT/ make using a normal move worth it.

I still lol at the idea of return on tauntrados. lolololololol.

Dark Azelf October 1st, 2007 9:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jimmyray (Post 2950697)
After I'm DD'd up, Waterfall would kill steel types, and as for Rock Types, I have Waterfall as well, even if I'm not DD'd up.

Bronzong ~ It's never the first pokemon, Gyarados should have been danced up enough to either kill Bronzong with Waterfall, or taunt it, which leaves Gyro Ball and Earthquake and Psychic which either aren't very effective, ir aren't effective at all...

Skarmory ~ Pretty much the same thing, except you'd obviously go for taunt straight away.

Gengar ~ Since when could Gengar survive waterfall?

For Bronzong youve obviously not come across this variant, dont Expect Gyro Ball Earthquake and Psychic all the time

[SET]
name: Calm Mind Tank
move1: Charge Beam/ Block
move2: Calm Mind
move3: Psychic / Hidden Power Ice
move4: Rest
item: Leftovers / Chesto Berry
ability: Levitate
nature: Relaxed / Quiet / Sassy
evs: 252 HP / 100 DEF / 152 SPATK

From Smogon, and ive used this on Shoddy Battle, and its fantastic

it gets Pwned by Charge Beam !!

Also for Gengar, have you ever heard of Focus Sash and Thunderbolt lol??

and no player in their right mind would ever Leave Skarm in on Taunt

Jimmyray October 1st, 2007 9:06 AM

Most Bronzong's I came across had something like:
Trick Room
Gyro Ball
Earthquake
Hypnosis
As for Gengar, it wouldn't kill an EV'd Gyarados in Sp.Def with one TB usually...

Dark Azelf October 1st, 2007 9:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jimmyray (Post 2950725)
Most Bronzong's I came across had something like:
Trick Room
Gyro Ball
Earthquake
Hypnosis
As for Gengar, it wouldn't kill an EV'd Gyarados in Sp.Def with one TB usually...

dont Expect Gyro Ball, Earthquake, Psychic, Trick and Hypnosis all the time , because the one i previously above may be rare but it is out there.

Also why would Gyarados be Ev trained in Sp.Def?

as for Thunderbolt ITS 4X EFFECTIVE !!!! Gyarados DIES LOL XD

Besises EVS for TauntDos are 214 HP 16 ATT 180 DEF 100 SPEED

Anti October 1st, 2007 9:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jimmyray (Post 2950725)
Most Bronzong's I came across had something like:
Trick Room
Gyro Ball
Earthquake
Hypnosis
As for Gengar, it wouldn't kill an EV'd Gyarados in Sp.Def with one TB usually...

lolololololololololololololololololololololol. Gengar has 130 base special attack, and gyara needs a few EVs in attack and speed, mind you. Therefore, while it has a decent shot at surviving, it still walls gyara with return completely, since it still needs EQ. therefore, gengar wouldn't even need a OHKO. Again, you rely on setting up on bronzong, when no good player will let you set up THAT easily. They'll realize you won't be packing EQ just yet, and jolteon says hello! Tbolt is a OHKO, you better believe it. While in theory, return could work, too many things counter it.

Also, you keep mentioning waterfall. If you use waterfall and return, electrics, like jolteon, laugh at you. So to keep return as you desire to do, you'd have to get rid of waterfall. Big dfeal, right? No, because now bronzong, especially the charge beam variant, laughs at you. So lololololol, I'm right for once

Alter Ego October 1st, 2007 9:37 AM

No, just no. Return isn't a good idea even in theory. Name one pokémon for me that takes more damage from Return than Waterfall, Ice Fang, or Earthquake. If you can't then there's no point whatsoever with using Return. End of discussion.

Anti October 1st, 2007 9:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alter Ego (Post 2950780)
No, just no. Return isn't a good idea even in theory. Name one pokémon for me that takes more damage from Return than Waterfall, Ice Fang, or Earthquake. If you can't then there's no point whatsoever with using Return. End of discussion.

That was my argument in a nice little box and a ribbon tied on. End, and you still haven't told us what this "test" is you supposedly conducted.

Sora_8920 October 1st, 2007 10:50 AM

I wonder if he's even tested the move out yet. And like Anti said in another Thread, we are giving facts about Return. Not being a noob and flaming you.

Anti October 1st, 2007 11:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Itachi 2007 (Post 2950939)
I wonder if he's even tested the move out yet. And like Anti said in another Thread, we are giving facts about Return. Not being a noob and flaming you.

Exactly. Until Jimmyray proves us otherwise, which he can't, because we have posted facts, we are right.As mentioned b4, EQ is needed...and gengar laughs at return and EQ. So yeah, not much else to say. Here. I prefer ice fang and EQ, but I know sims likes EQ and waterfall.

Sora_8920 October 1st, 2007 11:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anti-Pop Culture Warrior 13 (Post 2951032)
Exactly. Until Jimmyray proves us otherwise, which he can't, because we have posted facts, we are right.As mentioned b4, EQ is needed...and gengar laughs at return and EQ. So yeah, not much else to say. Here. I prefer ice fang and EQ, but I know sims likes EQ and waterfall.

He says "Hi, I like noobish Gyarados set's with Return, bye." I prefer Ice Fang over Waterfall for him to cover Grass, which he'd have to switch if he had Waterfall in place of.

Anti October 1st, 2007 11:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Itachi 2007 (Post 2951050)
He says "Hi, I like noobish Gyarados set's with Return, bye." I prefer Ice Fang over Waterfall for him to cover Grass, which he'd have to switch if he had Waterfall in place of.

How many grass types do you see these days?:P I like it for Mence and his dragon buddies. Steels also say hi to return and lol, and most can survive one EQ (like metagross) and then seriously hammer the poor snake.

Another option for gyara, though it is totally novelty, would be pumping some SAtk EVs into it and giving it fire blast. Anyone ever scarf it or CB it? Novelty? Yes. But it would shock the opposition. Tauntrados remains supreme champ though.

Dark Azelf October 1st, 2007 11:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anti-Pop Culture Warrior 13 (Post 2951068)
How many grass types do you see these days?:P I like it for Mence and his dragon buddies. Steels also say hi to return and lol, and most can survive one EQ (like metagross) and then seriously hammer the poor snake.

Another option for gyara, though it is totally novelty, would be pumping some SAtk EVs into it and giving it fire blast. Anyone ever scarf it or CB it? Novelty? Yes. But it would shock the opposition. Tauntrados remains supreme champ though.

Id like to battle Jimmy Ray again with that Gyarados


Alot of people love to have dragons as lead pokes, and i find it pwns them, and grass types arnt really common although Tangrowth lols at you without Ice Fang and even then you have to do about 3 DD to 3kho it XD

Sora_8920 October 1st, 2007 11:48 AM

Since me and Anti have sonething commenting on Gyarados with Return, i'd like to see this: WE'VE MESSED WITH THE NATURAL ORDER OF THE UNIVERSE!! (And no, i'm not saying Return is good on Gyarados. It's pitiful). Or it should be changed to he's, because he's the one planning to use it.

Anti October 1st, 2007 11:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dark_Azelf (Post 2951083)
Id like to battle Jimmy Ray again with that Gyarados


Alot of people love to have dragons as lead pokes, and i find it pwns them, and grass types arnt really common although Tangrowth lol @ you without Ice Fang and even then you have to about 3 DD to 3kho it XD

I thought about tangrowth right after posting that XD. The CB set I used, sadly worked better than return. I take out the weavile lead. Switch to take out the physical wall. Sweep. It is so much good fun, but the surprise doesn't las long.

Anf lol, thunder tkaes out skarm w/ proper EVs, and also hammers gyara hard...gyara vs. gyara!

Ice Fang allows you to mock Mence leads, anf the other draons, like garchomp. None of them have anything that really hammers it, except specsmence's draco meteor and then stone edge on Mence.

I tried a scrafedgyara for fun, the most fun I ever had on Wifi. People didn't see it coming, and it swept half their team b4 they figured it out.

Still, tauntrados is the evil dictator of gyara sets, but you can still have fun with the water snake of doom lol


EDIT: If I still had a DS to battle Jimmyray, I'd send out my pride and joy CB steelix (more novelty FTW!) and OHKO w/ stone edge lol...it lols at return, and even EQ.

Sora_8920 October 1st, 2007 11:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anti-Pop Culture Warrior 13 (Post 2951103)
I thought about tangrowth right after posting that XD. The CB set I used, sadly worked better than return. I take out the weavile lead. Switch to take out the physical wall. Sweep. It is so much good fun, but the surprise doesn't las long.

Anf lol, thunder tkaes out skarm w/ proper EVs, and also hammers gyara hard...gyara vs. gyara!

Ice Fang allows you to mock Mence leads, anf the other draons, like garchomp. None of them have anything that really hammers it, except specsmence's draco meteor and then stone edge on Mence.

I tried a scrafedgyara for fun, the most fun I ever had on Wifi. People didn't see it coming, and it swept half their team b4 they figured it out.

Still, tauntrados is the evil dictator of gyara sets, but you can still have fun with the water snake of doom lol

Tauntdos. Is.. The God, it's more of a god then Arceus.

Anti October 1st, 2007 11:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Itachi 2007 (Post 2951107)
Tauntdos. Is.. The God, it's more of a god then Arceus.

IT still remains the best set. It laughs at annoyers, walls, etc. with taunt and DDs while tghey hopelessly switch. Fun!

Jimmyray October 1st, 2007 11:54 AM

If only Gyarados could learn judgement...

Sora_8920 October 1st, 2007 11:55 AM

[QUOTE=Jimmyray;2951117]If only Gyarados could learn judgement...[/QUOTE]

Judgement? Yeah. But I think they should've made a cool name for a attack especially made for Gyarados.

Anti October 1st, 2007 11:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jimmyray (Post 2951117)
If only Gyarados could learn judgement...

So you've finally given in? Gyara has waterfall, EQ, and ice fang. Works for me. (not talking movesets, just saying it has good attack moves).

Dark Azelf October 1st, 2007 11:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anti-Pop Culture Warrior 13 (Post 2951103)
I thought about tangrowth right after posting that XD. The CB set I used, sadly worked better than return. I take out the weavile lead. Switch to take out the physical wall. Sweep. It is so much good fun, but the surprise doesn't las long.

Anf lol, thunder tkaes out skarm w/ proper EVs, and also hammers gyara hard...gyara vs. gyara!

Ice Fang allows you to mock Mence leads, anf the other draons, like garchomp. None of them have anything that really hammers it, except specsmence's draco meteor and then stone edge on Mence.

I tried a scrafedgyara for fun, the most fun I ever had on Wifi. People didn't see it coming, and it swept half their team b4 they figured it out.

Still, tauntrados is the evil dictator of gyara sets, but you can still have fun with the water snake of doom lol


EDIT: If I still had a DS to battle Jimmyray, I'd send out my pride and joy CB steelix (more novelty FTW!) and OHKO w/ stone edge lol...it lols at return, and even EQ.

Choice Scarf and Band Dos are meant to work very well, although ive never tried it myself

Jimmyray October 1st, 2007 11:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anti-Pop Culture Warrior 13 (Post 2951126)
So you've finally given in? Gyara has waterfall, EQ, and ice fang. Works for me. (not talking movesets, just saying it has good attack moves).

Not exactly given in, but I sincerly apologize for dismissing EQ as if it were pathetic... Although I am sticking with Return.

Anti October 1st, 2007 11:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jimmyray (Post 2951129)
Not exactly given in, but I sincerly apologize for dismissing EQ as if it were pathetic... Although I am sticking with Return.

BIG BIG BIG BIG BIG BIG BIG BIG BIG BIG BIG mistake! You will get creamed, end. gengar laughs at you, metagross laughs at you. Bronzong laughs at you. Steelix laughs at you even. Ice fang or waterfall>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>return. Return is the n00b choice, not saying you're a n00b, but you just don't use stupid moves like that...

Sora_8920 October 1st, 2007 11:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jimmyray (Post 2951129)
Not exactly given in, but I sincerly apologize for dismissing EQ as if it were pathetic... Although I am sticking with Return.

Well it's your choice. Novelty set, maybe? Otherwsie, it's pathetic. If you're going to use return, you may as well use a Set that surprises people. Edit: Hp Psychic with Modest Nature!

Anti October 1st, 2007 12:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Itachi 2007 (Post 2951147)
Well it's your choice. Novelty set, maybe? Otherwsie, it's pathetic. If you're going to use return, you may as well use a Set that surprises people.

Yeah, MAYBE in a CB or scarf set, but on tauntrados it5 remains lol since there are FAR better options. you still fail to see that? Unbelievable.

Dark Azelf October 1st, 2007 12:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anti-Pop Culture Warrior 13 (Post 2951142)
BIG BIG BIG BIG BIG BIG BIG BIG BIG BIG BIG mistake! You will get creamed, end. gengar laughs at you, metagross laughs at you. Bronzong laughs at you. Steelix laughs at you even. Ice fang or waterfall>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>return. Return is the n00b choice, not saying you're a n00b, but you just don't use stupid moves like that...

Please Listen to this Jimmy ^^



what happened to your DS Anti-Pop ?

Jimmyray October 1st, 2007 12:01 PM

*Sighs* maybe I should request for this to be locked, after all I've made my decision, and all I'm getting here is critisism...

Anti October 1st, 2007 12:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jimmyray (Post 2951158)
*Sighs* maybe I should request for this to be locked, after all I've made my decision, and all I'm getting here is critisism...

Jimmy, b4 you make that request, you understand your gyara will be the laughing stock of the metagame? Give me THREE GOOD REASONS that return is better than ice fang or waterfall on gyara. There isn't even 1, but go ahead.

DA, my DS...repair shop. I sold D/P thoughy, I hated it tbh.

Dark Azelf October 1st, 2007 12:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jimmyray (Post 2951158)
*Sighs* maybe I should request for this to be locked, after all I've made my decision, and all I'm getting here is critisism...

Were using Constructive criticism, were just advising you on whats the best

Sora_8920 October 1st, 2007 12:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anti-Pop Culture Warrior 13 (Post 2951152)
Yeah, MAYBE in a CB or scarf set, but on tauntrados it5 remains lol since there are FAR better options. you still fail to see that? Unbelievable.

I don't see why he's not listening too us. Let's give him some more time to test out Return. Hence, he'll see how many Gengar's are out there. I still have my Ds, and a Gengar. Be warned!: He has T-bolt! But yeah, there are more workable/plausible and actually useable moves to put to use.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jimmyray (Post 2951158)
*Sighs* maybe I should request for this to be locked, after all I've made my decision, and all I'm getting here is critisism...

That's why you accept the comments and move on. =/

Anti October 1st, 2007 12:06 PM

It just bothers me he says we're critizising him...isn't that the point of the forum? We are giving constructive critizism. There is no way we are all wrong, as we all agree except for you and you have no proof to back up your conclusion, thus it is bogus.


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