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Which Gyrados Moveset?
I wanna have a few backups for my team, and I've come up with a few movesets for a Gyrados, could you tell me which one is better in your opinion? I'd rather you pick one of mine than suggest something comletely new, as it may be very awkward for me... Thanks:
[email protected] 252 Attack 252 Defense 6 Speed Adamant Dragon Dance Taunt Waterfall Return [email protected] Orb 252 Attack 252 Speed 6 HP Jolly Dragon Dance Waterfall Earthqake Ice Fang [email protected] 252 Attack 252 Speed 6 Defense Adamant Dragon Dance Taunt Earthquake Waterfall Thanks ~Jimmyray |
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Gyarados fails w/o taunt and DD IMO, since skarm can roar it away w/o taunt, and it doesn't have potent power w/o DD. Then EQ and waterfall would be good for the last two slots...
You might wanna check those EV spreads a bit though...doesn't need 252 speed. |
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Hmm. I guess it works pretty well. But yeah, getting swept away after a DD isn't funny.
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But it doesn't really need EQ either because Return has better base power, and Waterfall + Return covers pretty much everything, including annoying levitaters like Bronzong and Weezing XD
sims796 - I beat your Gyarados with my Dragonite, which then carried on to kill the rest of your team, remember? |
Then Electrivire has a field day, if it catches you before you get DD in. And if your worried bout Zong, Return damn sure won't help.
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No, Spiderpig. Caught it while you were using Reflect.
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See, return has better base power by 2 I believe, maybe 4. WHAT A DIFFERENCE!!! But no. EQ has far better coverage. Waterfall deals with flyers and levitators. Besides, steel is one of the most common types, and they lol at return, and some even at waterfall. That is where EQ comes in. Bye bye metagross! Bye bye steelix! Get it?
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Fact is, with Return, you won't beat Zong. EQ has greater coverage. If your so scared of Nite, then get Stone Edge. |
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I chose Ice Fang and EQ, because other Gyarados, Dragons and Tangrowth lol at you otherwise and the majority of people use Dragons, although it lacks STAB, it has better coverage. Any ways the EVS for it are 212 HP / 16 ATT / 180 DEF / 100 SPEED. Does Return work well on it from anyones personal experience ? |
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Why would you need Return? EDIT:NO, DARK. I TRIED IT. |
Most of the counters of a Gyardos are Elctric types like:
Raichu Electivire Zapdos Electrode Jolteon Return can OHKO all of these, but EQ can't. Also, you say Waterall takes care of all flyers easily? Skarmory? Articuno? Salamence? Dragonite? Other Gyarados'? Return can also OHKO these. |
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EDIT: Jimmyray, raichu isn't a gyarados counter. And what do you mean, EQ OHKOs all of those pokemon, except zapdos, which waterfall takes care of. None of those are gyara counters...really, your calculations are WAAAYYYYY off, I mean WAY off. I've never seen such inaccuracy in my life. |
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Also, Reurn will NOT OHKO Skar. |
I have lot's of personal experience. Return actually OHKO'd my entire (all 6 pokes) from a really top quality battler (Pythonkid)
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It depends on what you want Jimmy
Ice Fang and Earthquake for coverage. Waterfall and Earthquake for raw power. Damn i wish Hidden Power was still Physical............. Anyways Bronzong wont really do much, only thing it can really do is Blow the Hell up or if they use a rare one with Charge Beam. |
dude...
you don't know what a counter is...jolteon isn't a counter for Gyara, it can't switch into it. As mentioned earlier, return doesn't OHKO skarm...no physical move does. I honestly loled at that claim. EQ>>>>>>>>>>return. i"ve played pokemon for years dude...your calculations were WAY off. EDIT: I lol at return...really. Your "experience" must've been REALLY messed up dude. |
I think I'm going with Return + Waterfall.
Anti-Pop ~ I happen to KNOW for an actual FACT that Return is better. Thanks for all your help though :D |
Wow. I missed Zapdos. Call the cops.
He has far too many options to say he needs Return for Coverage. Please, explain why Return is better. |
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That must be one messed up dictionary you're reading, because EQ is better than return. We're all telling you the same thing...Return OHKOs nothing EQ can't, except flyers. And guess what? If you're worried about that, give it ice fang over waterfall, which takes out that zapdos you were talking about... and gyara just uses taunt to skarmory, so it'll have to switch out, since drill peck does lol to it. It is so simple. |
I have no problem with him, but I would like him to explain what Return hits that EQ/SE doesn't.
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I already tried... But you all seem to think EQ. Let's just say it will sweep more pokemon with Return. Take an example battle:
WITH EQ: Jamie sends out Gyarados: Some Guy sends out Salamence Jamie uses... wait.. uhm.. Taunt? No... Uhm... Waterfall? Na... EQ? Damn it... With Return: Jamie sends out Gyarados Some Guy sends out Salamence Jamie uses Return Salamence dies Stone Edge = No, because I don't have the TM and it has bad other type coverage for a Gyarados. |
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EDIT: As for your example Jimmyray, ther eis this little move called ice fang it learns...far better than return. And Mence has intimidate. you'd have to DD up quite a bit to OHKO it. |
Same senario:
Jamie sends Gya sims sends Mence Jamie uses SE Mence is KOed I must run to the store for batteries... |
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You want to hit Super Effective on it, if Salamence is damaged you will KO it, you wont when its not Super Effective like Return isnt |
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and at the end of the day Return is used because of the STAB factor, on things like Snorlax and Slaking, and which is why you never see Metagross and stuff with Return.
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EDIT: Jeez, you people get your posts on here fast! |
How does rock/water hit every single type ._.;
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Water hits ICE FIRE STEEL BUG ELECTRIC ROCK POISON DARK PSYCHIC FLYING GHOST GROUND FIGHTING It does not hit WATER GRASS DRAGON NORMAL Wait, ROCK does! |
Quagsire w/ water absorb counters that...but there are boltbeam counters, so yeah. Ice fang and EQ have tremendous coverage too together.
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What Quagsire? Ooh I'm scared of that :laugh: One, maybe two DD will beat that with SE. But yes, Ice Fang & Earthquake has the best coverage.
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EDIT: BE AFRAID OF QUAGSIRE!!!!!!!!!!!!!! |
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Meh you still get walled by Zong, who just resorts to Exploding or Charge beaming you. ice Fang and Eq, and Eq and SE probably have about the same coverage. EDIT: You also get walled by Claydol with EQ and SE. |
Still, claydol doesn't take that much damage from waterfall or ice fang eiother, though a few DDs and it is gone. Ice fang/waterfall/stone edge + EQ are the best moves for the last two slots...EQ FTW!
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As it is, Gya cannot hit everythihg. Choose something and go after it. I beat Ludicolo with EQ & three DD's.
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Yeah, truth is, every pokemon is walled by something. Pick and choose. Pick and choose. ICe fang ans EQ is my fav combo...
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Taunt is for more than Skarm. It allows you to set up. I use Waterfall over Ice Fang. Power over coverage. But thats just me.
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Lol, I just did a test to see who was better out EQ/IFados and returnados, and guess who won?
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I'm on my wii, so I can't realy type... I'll explain why it was Returnados tomorrow.
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EDIT: I'll make this simple Jimmyray... -Ice Fang and EQ cover everything...return has terrible coverage. Walled by rock, steel, and ghost types. That's a lot of pokemon. Ironically, the move that would pair with it the best is EQ, since it hurts rock and steel types a lot. Still, that pair would fail, since Bronzong, skarm, gengar, etc. would laugh at you. Now, replacing return with ston edge gives you trememndous coverage (earthslide, but w/ stone edge). Now you cover all those dreaded pokemon you briought up in your previous posts. All of a sudden, you hit almost any pokemon with a solid hit, with a few exceptions. But, every pokemon is walled by something, so you have to decide what you're going to get walled by. Okay, next option. Waterfall and EQ. Both have great power with Gyara, as one gets STAB and the other has great base power. Even though there are quite a few pokemon that wall that, the overall power of both moves allows for nice power, even if it "is not very effective," assuming you've got at least one DD in. Basically, this is power over coverage. Last option...ice fang and EQ, my favorite combo. Flyers? Dead. Dragons? Dead. Electric types? Dead. It has tremendous coverage, but not overwheling power. It is a lovely combo that hits a lot of its counters. Not much more to say. While walled by bronzong again, all pokemon are walled by something...just scout for bronzong at the beginning of the battle, take it out, and proceed by sending out Gyara. Okay, notice those all have EQ? Without it, many electric types that normally aren't gyara counters suddenly turn into gyara counters, and it falls much easier. therefor, EQ is a must on it, for its own survival. Therefore, if you were to use return, you'd get squashed. Gengar, bronzong, etc. would wall you far worse than the other combos I mentioned and you are kinda hopeless. Okay, so then you want to get rid of EQ to keep return. Then the electric types lol at you. You see, return fails on gyarados, because it doesn't give it the necessary coverage to be a huge threat in the metagame like the other gyaras I posted are. I'm a pokemon nerd, geek, I have no life, so you'd hope I'd be good at what I like. I just so happen to be a very good battler. Not tremndous and legendary, but good. You should listen Jimmyray, you'd benefit a lot. |
Well, Anti-Pop Culture Warrior 13 covered it pretty well, but to make his long story short:
STABless Return fails because it gets no super effective hits. Now with STAB, we're still looking at a 153-power move, which is nothing to sneeze at, but on Gyarados it's a measly 102. Waterfall, on the other hand, enjoys STAB (Raising it up to 120 effective power) in addition to nailing a number of weaknesses and having a respectable flinch rate. Earthquake is 100 base, which is marginally below Return on a normal hit, but it is super effective against the one type Gyarados really loathes going up against: Electrics. Now what types won't quake and Waterfall hurt properly? Ground and Water don't match up well against Grass, and Flying types avoid quake (Water/Flying and Grass/Flying also weathering Waterfall fairly well) and this is where the third move comes in: Ice Fang is a great fit, since it not only has the freeze and flinch rate to its name but is also super effective against...ta-dah, Grass and Flying types. The pokes with levitate will also either have an ice weak or take neutral damage from Waterfall. In other words, while Ice Fang's base power is a measly 65, we're only using it as a super effective attack so it will effectively turn to 130 or even 260, depending on the target. EQ is also used largely for super effective hits (200 or 400 effective base power) and Waterfall stands at a solid 120 even without being super effective, so all of them are superior to Return's lackluster 102 base power. Plus, all of these moves have an effect outside of dealing damage (although Earthquake's will only become relevant if your opponent is a clueless N00B in love with Dig) giving them another benefit to their name. So yeah, unless we're dealing with a Normal type or a pokémon with an absolutely craptastic movepool there's no reason to even consider Return. =O That 'test' was obviously a load of BS to have reached such an absurd result, probably done with an otherwise failing movepool (or some very bad gameplay) on the EQ Gyarados' part, because there's no rational backing for using Return on a Gyarados. xP |
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Bronzong ~ It's never the first pokemon, Gyarados should have been danced up enough to either kill Bronzong with Waterfall, or taunt it, which leaves Gyro Ball and Earthquake and Psychic which either aren't very effective, ir aren't effective at all... Skarmory ~ Pretty much the same thing, except you'd obviously go for taunt straight away. Gengar ~ Since when could Gengar survive waterfall? |
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You totally missed the point on gengar. Gyara needs EQ so electric types don't come in and laugh at gyarados. With simple prediction, they can switch in and OHKO gyara. You can't assume it will have DDs in...if you do, when you aren't powered up, that assumption will come and bite you in the butt. Zapdos is a nice coujnter for gyara, unless you give it stone edge or ice fang, which I'll get into later. Becasue of the reasons I just posted, even you, Jimmyray, must admit gyara needs EQ to deal with its biggest weakness, since it is far from a guarentee that a waterfall not powered from DD will OHKO gyara's threats...therefore, it needs EQ. So, we now have taunt, DD, and EQ. This is where gengar comes back into play. Since gyara needs EQ pretty much, if you gave it return, gengar would laugh at you. EQ...levitate! Return doesn't effect it...so since EQ is needed, return isn't an option...because far too many pokemon wall it. Agiligross can switch in, set up, and OHKO gyara w/ thunderpunch too...and Vire lols at gyara that doesn't carry EQ. Which brings me to my next point. Any GOOD battler you fight will have good prediction skills...the minute your opponent realizes you were stupid enough to put return on gyara, gengar or zapdos comes in and will force you to switch, meaning they have a free turn to do as they wish and lol at you. Any steel also lols at return, or even rock type (both types in which all their pokemon have generally good defense). So rhyperior could come in and OHKO with stone edge, at least the common CB version. the other options above give you far more coverage so that you aren't walled by every pokemon on the planet except bidoof and zigzagoon. If you still refuse to listen and feel gyara needs a normal move (even though it doesn't gain STAB and has much poorer coverage than ice fand, stone edge, and even waterfall), then use double edge. It has a bit more power and might.../MIGHT/ make using a normal move worth it. I still lol at the idea of return on tauntrados. lolololololol. |
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[SET] name: Calm Mind Tank move1: Charge Beam/ Block move2: Calm Mind move3: Psychic / Hidden Power Ice move4: Rest item: Leftovers / Chesto Berry ability: Levitate nature: Relaxed / Quiet / Sassy evs: 252 HP / 100 DEF / 152 SPATK From Smogon, and ive used this on Shoddy Battle, and its fantastic it gets Pwned by Charge Beam !! Also for Gengar, have you ever heard of Focus Sash and Thunderbolt lol?? and no player in their right mind would ever Leave Skarm in on Taunt |
Most Bronzong's I came across had something like:
Trick Room Gyro Ball Earthquake Hypnosis As for Gengar, it wouldn't kill an EV'd Gyarados in Sp.Def with one TB usually... |
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Also why would Gyarados be Ev trained in Sp.Def? as for Thunderbolt ITS 4X EFFECTIVE !!!! Gyarados DIES LOL XD Besises EVS for TauntDos are 214 HP 16 ATT 180 DEF 100 SPEED |
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Also, you keep mentioning waterfall. If you use waterfall and return, electrics, like jolteon, laugh at you. So to keep return as you desire to do, you'd have to get rid of waterfall. Big dfeal, right? No, because now bronzong, especially the charge beam variant, laughs at you. So lololololol, I'm right for once |
No, just no. Return isn't a good idea even in theory. Name one pokémon for me that takes more damage from Return than Waterfall, Ice Fang, or Earthquake. If you can't then there's no point whatsoever with using Return. End of discussion.
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I wonder if he's even tested the move out yet. And like Anti said in another Thread, we are giving facts about Return. Not being a noob and flaming you.
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Another option for gyara, though it is totally novelty, would be pumping some SAtk EVs into it and giving it fire blast. Anyone ever scarf it or CB it? Novelty? Yes. But it would shock the opposition. Tauntrados remains supreme champ though. |
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Alot of people love to have dragons as lead pokes, and i find it pwns them, and grass types arnt really common although Tangrowth lols at you without Ice Fang and even then you have to do about 3 DD to 3kho it XD |
Since me and Anti have sonething commenting on Gyarados with Return, i'd like to see this: WE'VE MESSED WITH THE NATURAL ORDER OF THE UNIVERSE!! (And no, i'm not saying Return is good on Gyarados. It's pitiful). Or it should be changed to he's, because he's the one planning to use it.
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Anf lol, thunder tkaes out skarm w/ proper EVs, and also hammers gyara hard...gyara vs. gyara! Ice Fang allows you to mock Mence leads, anf the other draons, like garchomp. None of them have anything that really hammers it, except specsmence's draco meteor and then stone edge on Mence. I tried a scrafedgyara for fun, the most fun I ever had on Wifi. People didn't see it coming, and it swept half their team b4 they figured it out. Still, tauntrados is the evil dictator of gyara sets, but you can still have fun with the water snake of doom lol EDIT: If I still had a DS to battle Jimmyray, I'd send out my pride and joy CB steelix (more novelty FTW!) and OHKO w/ stone edge lol...it lols at return, and even EQ. |
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If only Gyarados could learn judgement...
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[QUOTE=Jimmyray;2951117]If only Gyarados could learn judgement...[/QUOTE]
Judgement? Yeah. But I think they should've made a cool name for a attack especially made for Gyarados. |
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what happened to your DS Anti-Pop ? |
*Sighs* maybe I should request for this to be locked, after all I've made my decision, and all I'm getting here is critisism...
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DA, my DS...repair shop. I sold D/P thoughy, I hated it tbh. |
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It just bothers me he says we're critizising him...isn't that the point of the forum? We are giving constructive critizism. There is no way we are all wrong, as we all agree except for you and you have no proof to back up your conclusion, thus it is bogus.
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