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All Groudon Users Read This!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Ur probably wondering y i am writing a thread to all of u Groudon users. Well, here's y - Solarbeaming Groudon. Now ur probably like, "yeah, so wat? My Groudon knows Solarbeam and it rocks!" U keep tellin yourself that. The sad truth is, Solarbeaming Groudon sucks. I was battling my friend today, and he had a Solarbeaming Groudon. I was ready 2 hit myself in the head on the wall. I had explained 2 him a 1000 times y Solarbeaming Groudon sucks, but now i'll hopefully drive the point home. HE SUCKS!!!!!
Groudon, as u may know, has a pretty high attack. High enough, that he does a lot of damage with Earthquake (EQ) when u fight him (if u have Ruby). Anyway, if he has such a high attack, y not build upon it? Unfortunatly, some people don't and give him Solarbeam. Whats wrong with my Groudon knowing Solarbeam? When i fought Groudon in my third file, i was 2 lazy to catch him (cause i never use him). However, seeing a lot of Solarbeaming Groudons all around has driven me to write this. So i hacked a wild, level 45 Groudon and looked @ his attack and special attack (since he's hacked, this may not be the exact stats of the real Groudon, so if u hav him pleaz correct me). His attack was 133, and his special attack was 98. yikes. Pretty big difference, huh? And once he gains levels the margin will grow and grow. Therefore, Groudon could be classified as a physical sweeper. Anyway, onto Solarbeam. A Solarbeaming Groudon doesn't benefit from any bonuses, in fact, usins Solarbeam is a de-bonus. The only advantage is Groudon's super cheap ability drought, which lest Solarbeam only take one turn, but its still useless and not gonna do a lot of damage. Y? For a few reasons: 1.First of all, he doesn't hav a high enough Special Attack to do much damage. 2. He doesn't benefit from STAB (same attack type bonus - for example, an Oddish using Solarbeam would get a damage bonus because the attack is the same type as Oddish). 3.He can only get a bonus from it being super effective, and it still isn't gonna be as close to good as a grass type using it. While one Groudon uses Solarbeam, a Groudon using EQ (who benefits from STAB) could hurt its opponent worse than the SG (Solarbeaming Groudon) could. So be smart and hav a powerhouse Groudon - use physical attacks while ur idiot friend is wasting an attack with Solarbeam. Still not convinced? Lets compare the two attacks. Solarbeam (with drought) 120 power Damage: less because of bad special attack Can be made worse: if u use overheat EQ 100 power + STAB + High Attack = More power than Solarbeam My friends Kygore always kills my Groudon, so Drought and Solarbeam could turn the tide. Wrong. Even with Drought in effect, a great Special Sweeper such as Kygore could still kill u pretty quick. Another thing - pokemon with high special attacks mostly hav a higher special defense than physical defense, so Kygore's high Sp. Def. could survive 1, mayb 2 Solarbeams (and kill u b4 u kill it). Therefore, since Kygore has a low physical defense, y not attack it with some physical attacks that will do more damage than Solarbeam, anyway? Build upon your strengths and its weaknesses. The whole point of this: The only bragging right you hav with a Solarbeaming Groudon, is that u can say "My Groudon sucks worse than yours". *Frosty, who inspired me to make this, feel free to comment and edit and if u want, u can sticky it. |
Correction. Solarbeam doesn't even need to charge with Groudon's Drought (assuming it hasn't been changed to a different weather). And a Groudon with Solarbeam could work to some extent long as it's other moves aren't Overheat or something.
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o yeah, i forgot about drought. and did u read it - SOLARBEAMING GROUDON NEVER WORKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
EDIT: There, added in the drought factor and compared the attacks in-depth. |
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Groudon CAN special sweep you know... 299 isn't bad at all, and in fact equal to Starmie's who is always used as special sweeper. But it's just that in comparison Groudon's physical attack is so much better.
Solarbeaming Groudon DOES work with something like... Sp.Sweep Groudon- [sp.atk + / atk -] @ leftovers EV: ??? (see below) -solarbeam -fire blast/flamethrower -earthquake -protect It's possible, but managing the EVs become a MUCH harder tasks because it's not so easy to sweep now, so you may have to consider some investments in defensive EVs too. When there is a need to invest EVs in almost all areas, the amount of skill required to use a Pokemon like that well is EXTREMELY high, certainly too far beyond my control. The fact that how I hate most solarbeaming Groudon is because 95% of the time it is an indication of somehow who has no idea how much more difficult they're making of themselves for their Groudon when they equip solarbeam... Plus grass attacks suck and we all know that because it's strong against like 2 elements and is resisted by all others. |
Luckily, Grass is SE against 2 of the most common types ever and a subtype of one of those common types: Water, Ground, Rock
With the many waters and ground attacks running around, you won't be surprised to see STAB mons out, so Solar beam can do quite a fair bit of dmg. As well, screw EVing in atk if you have quake and specials, because without Evs, your attack still shoots around 335ish, and so, you have a fairly decent sweeper. |
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Don't forget what about ice?
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He means Grass is super effective agaisnt Ice I think. And I don't think Grass is SE against Ice. The other way around maybe.
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No, grass isn't SE on ice........maybe Vash was thinking about dual water and ice types?? Solarbeam on Groudon would help cover its weakness to water. Even if it doesn't go first, drought will cut any water attacks power by half...so it should survive long enough to use a solarbeam.
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of course it'll survive... but all water types have ice beam anyway so no one will be weird enough to use surf/hydro against a Groudon. The major factor is that Groudon's physical base stat is 50 points higher than special. That's like "let's give Kyogre earthquake to cover electric weakness!"
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Next thing you know there'll be Kyogres running around with Earthquake. And it'll all be your fault Frosty.
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Already seen one with brick break just to hit Blissey... but then Water Spout will do more damage to a Blissey compare to brick break anyway XD So therefore, that guy is just being stupid
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my point exactly. but no 1 listens to me.
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240 power vs 150 power is still a pretty sizable comparison, despite the gap between Groundon's attack strengths.
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exactly. tell demonchaos that.
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Once again
SPAM: Stupid Pointless Annoying Messages/Mail -a post that has no point -a post that is only a reworded version of another post in the same thread -a post that just says "I agree" But don't forget... Groudon can swords dance up, making the gap a LOT bigger. 800 physical power using a STAB earthquake anyone? |
A few notes...
Groudon's Solar beam deals roughly 10% more damage to a Starmie (assuming max stats in all category, starmie has 269 defense and spD, making a good comparison). In case you wonder, Solar beam deals 62.85%, Earthquake 52.32% Starmie (299 spA) deals roughly 10% more damage with Ice beam than with Surf, dealing 40% with Ice beam. Reflect runs maybe more rampant than Light screens. Don't quote me on that. It's a **** of a lot easier to tank on physical: Skarmory comes to mind, followed by Forretress, Steelix, etc. Will o Wisp. Charm, Tickle, Featherdance has no special equivalents. That balances out the availability of Swords dance, IMHO. Without EVs, Groundon has 335 atk. Perfectly viable to use alongside a 299 spAtk too, no? Without EVs, Groundon has 235 spA. Uh... crap? Boost personality with full EV takes it to 329, pretty good as well. Groundon is banned from almost all forms of play. That concludes Mana's random moments. |
My favorite pokemon groudon and I use it all the time.
If you make it hold miracle seed SolarB. will gain more power, and groudon have already have alot of PA, so you don't need to worry about that. ;) |
Aww, why don’t you RS Mana? You really should, too many n00bs on NB as is. ._.; Not adding much to the Groudon thing, but I use a sub/sd/eq/rs one if at all in a sunny team. People underestimate how fast Groudon and Kyo can be.
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In a gro/kyo battle, it really depeads on the speed to me.
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Nah... Kyogres run like Rattatas on NB... definitely a stat to memorize (speed is lower than 300 even with bonus). And don't diss my fellow buddies Kairi... I mean just because there are tons of people like me who gets beaten up continously on NB... ;_; As for the noobs who are even worst than me, well I rely on them to get wins if I need wins XD
Kyogre and Groudon has identical speed, so most likely Kyogre will win because ice beam will always be there, while Solarbeam won't work if the weather happens to be rain dance not sunny day (the one with lower speed will take over in terms of weather, and if their speed is identical... then 50/50) -no one uses feather dance or tickle (or they die before it gets pulled off) -charm is there but a lot more rare (intimidate however...) -there is also calm mind and amnesia against special defense... darn those Slowbros -Blissey, Milotic, Ludicolo, Umbreon and so on are all great special sponge -reflect and lightscreen are really equal in terms of which one is more common (as it all depends on the party) |
Frosty:
Ludicolo, Milotic and umbreon are also almost equally as good a physical tank as they are special, aren't they? Kairi: I'll RSbattle when I uh... have time to catch up on wtf RS is. ;_; |
well Frosty, if ur buddies get beaten upa lot on NB, then i must be a family friend. 0 wins so far, but i just finished my team the way people suggested (x-cept 4 puttin on Overheat, I used Fire Blast). Umbreon may as well be a physical tank, cause its attacks r about equal (i think). And dats y that guy on NB pulled off Shadow Ball doin 131 damage to my Latias. Ludicolo is annoying cause Fire ain't super effective, and he can use physical attacks as well as special. I've never seen a militoc w/ physical attacks, though.
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Milotic without Marvel Scale activated doesn't have that high of a physical defense... it's around low 200 and mid 200s at most. And yes Umbreon, Dusclops, Claydol and friends are all the same in both (close enough to say that it's the same)
And don't worry Mana Lugia... I'm sure that you'll be just fine ^^ Certainly you're a lot better and a lot more skilled than me in battling, so why not play for fun anyway! Just because you may not have a 3 digit number for the winning record percentages ;p |
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