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-   -   RMT - Balanced Team - OU, 4th Gen. (https://www.pokecommunity.com/showthread.php?t=115820)

Sora_8920 November 25th, 2007 5:13 PM

Lonely Nature on Vire. Naive is just..

Archer November 28th, 2007 8:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Itachi 2007 (Post 3118197)
Lonely Nature on Vire. Naive is just..

Why, it can do with the extra speed. Its base 95 isnt it? with UP Spd, you can outrun a Modest Specsmence.

Ársa November 29th, 2007 1:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by archer (Post 3085041)
Previous Team is in Spoiler for reference.

So, here is my NEW team. Rate, etc;

Infernape (♂) @ Life Orb
Ability: Blaze
EVs: 76 Atk/252 Spd/180 SAtk
Naive nature (+Spd, -SDef)
- Flamethrower
- Grass Knot
- Thunderpunch
- Close Combat
---

Close Combat over Focus Blast. More likely you will need it over Focus Blast, and CC has better accuracy anyway.

Electivire (♂) @ Expert Belt
Ability: Motor Drive
EVs: 180 Atk/252 Spd/76 SAtk
Naive nature (+Spd, -SDef)
- Earthquake
- Cross Chop
- Thunderbolt
- Ice Punch
---
NOTES: Standard Vire. TBolt to hit skarm.

Skarmory (♂) @ Leftovers
Ability: Keen Eye
EVs: 252 HP/6 Atk/252 Def
Impish nature (+Def, -SAtk)
- Drill Peck
- Roar
- Roost
- Stealth Rock
---
NOTES: Stealth rock over spikes due to it being effective in one turn. Spikes is bad with only one layer. It can also hits fliers.

Gengar (♂) @ Focus Sash
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 SAtk/252 Spd
Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
-Shadow Ball
-Focus Blast
-Thunderbolt
-Hypnosis

Slowking (♂) @ Lefties
Ability: Levitate jks. Own Tempo
EVs: 252 HP/252 SDef
Calm Nature (+SDef, -Atk)
-Surf
-Ice Beam
-Calm Mind
-Slack Off


Perhaps you should think of changing this. Slowking works best on a Trick Room team.

------

[email protected]/Chopple Berry
Relaxed
252 HP, 154 Def, 106 Sp. Atk

Flamethrower
Torment
Crunch
Substitute

An invention of mine. With 31 IV's in HP, achieves 404 HP, giving 101 HP subs. Torment for those fighting types. They would need to attack first using their main move to break the sub, but then couldn't use it next turn to attack. Crunch for STAB, and Flamethrower to give at least Neutral damage to most. A great counter to ChoiceCross, who could do damage to your team, and any other pokemon running Choice Items. This runs perfect with your theme of anti skarm-bliss, because it will take care of both. :)



Donphan (♂) @ Lefties
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 252 HP/202 Def/36 Atk
Impish nature (+Def, -SAtk)
- Earthquake
- Ice Shard
- Rapid Spin
- Stealth Rock
---

Stealth Rock over the last 2 options. It is a great lead, and can give good attacking support also. With those attack EV's, can 2HKO a 357 HP/ 226 Def Garchomp. :)


Definately looking better than your first team. Looks to be solid. Taking away the Slowking also helps with your Electivire weakness, and Tyranitar should be able to KO it, as long as it has a Sub in place when Vire is switched in etc.

Regards,

~M51

Archer November 29th, 2007 12:50 PM

I appreciate the advice about slowking, but i really need a special tank/wall. Why does a wall have to be fast? Skarm can take the physical ones. I also like more solid reliable movesets. Not at all saying yours is bad, it just requires everything to be precise. This is a Wifi team, so i'm not too keen to have to do serious IV breeding.
*whoops - double post*

Ársa November 30th, 2007 4:44 AM

I never stated that a wall had to be fast, I just said that Slowking's services are better suited to a Trick Room team. I just gave you a set that has worked extrememly well for me, in regards to the Tyranitar. If you don't like it, fine, but I never once said anything about speed... ?_?

~M51

Archer December 1st, 2007 12:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mullac51 (Post 3128776)
I never stated that a wall had to be fast, I just said that Slowking's services are better suited to a Trick Room team. I just gave you a set that has worked extrememly well for me, in regards to the Tyranitar. If you don't like it, fine, but I never once said anything about speed... ?_?

~M51

About the slowking speed thing, i though you were implying that it had to be fast (hence trick room) but obviously not. Sorry for the misunderstanding. It's not that i don't like your TTar, cause i do, its just not a great solution for the special wall/tank position that is vacant.

Can anyone suggest any other special wall/tank other than Blissey/snorlax? I like the idea of Slowking. One idea i was discussing with my friend the other day is that I could use a really slow pokemon to help when versing trick room teams.

Oh and Itachi, could you please explain your reasoning behind the Natures on Vire?

Just incase it seems otherwse, i do appreciate all of your help. I never intend to offend anyone. I may not have, but looking back, some of my posts seem to be a little blunt.

~Archer~

Ársa December 1st, 2007 1:15 AM

You do remember that Rock types get a really big boost in Sp. Def when a Sand Storm is in play? Mine survived 3 Ice Beams from a Choice Specs Porygon-Z when it was asleep....lol

That is good.

~M51

Archer December 1st, 2007 2:23 AM

Forgot the 1.5x Boost yes. One main concern is that it will be a pain to breed for one with a 31 HP IV. Will try on Shoddy but i just realised that sandstorm stuffs up my Gengar real bad. (Focus Sash, which I'm not changing)
Still, can you suggest any other walls/tanks?

Ársa December 1st, 2007 3:05 AM

ahhhhh....

[email protected] Clay
Calm
Serene Grace
252 HP, 252 Sp, Def, 6 Sp. Atk

Light Screen
Air Slash/Tri Attack
Counter
Wish

or

[email protected]
Calm
Serene Grace
252 HP, 252 Sp. Def, 6 Sp. Atk

Thunder Wave/Body Slam
Seismic Toss/Air Slash
Encore
Wish/Roost/Softboiled

~M51

LethalTexture December 1st, 2007 4:07 AM

As for a special wall Slowking, here's a set that I came up with, that I'm breeding for right now, in fact.

Slowking (♂) @ ???
Ability: Own Tempo
EVs: 252 HP/58 Def/200 SDef
Sassy nature (+SDef, -Spd)
- Calm Mind
- Thunder Wave
- Surf
- Slack Off

I'm not sure about the item yet, because I did go for the Chesto/Rest combination, but Loquacity reminded me that Slack Off was possible.

Archer December 1st, 2007 6:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeanoDance (Post 3131855)
As for a special wall Slowking, here's a set that I came up with, that I'm breeding for right now, in fact.

Slowking (♂) @ ???
Ability: Own Tempo
EVs: 252 HP/58 Def/200 SDef
Sassy nature (+SDef, -Spd)
- Calm Mind
- Thunder Wave
- Surf
- Slack Off

I'm not sure about the item yet, because I did go for the Chesto/Rest combination, but Loquacity reminded me that Slack Off was possible.

I like it, but i dont know which moves other than Calm Mind and Slack off. These are its choices: Surf, Grass Knot, Ice Beam, Flamethrower, Psychic, Shadow Ball and maybe trump card. Which two of these would offer the most coverage?

EDIT: Can you tell me why you used that particular EV spread? Oh, and it shoud have lefties.

Darkblade December 2nd, 2007 12:24 AM

Hmmm... You should take out maybe Slack Off, You don't really need it, it's a tank after all, and you have lefties backing you up, but try replacing it with either pyshic or Grass Knot

LethalTexture December 2nd, 2007 1:22 AM

I chose this spread because (this was tested on Shoddy, so we're assuming Max IVs) it tops his defence up to 210, which will lead him to take a moderately powerful physical hit with his high HP. Those EVs could of course go into Sp. Atk.

Though, I'd stick with CM and Slack Off. I feel that walls function better with a recovery move, and not only does CM make it's job better by boosting Sp. Def, it also becomes a potent late-game sweeper with his decent Sp. Atk stat. If this job is to be made easier, replace Thunder Wave with Grass Knot/another SP. Atk move.

Archer December 2nd, 2007 1:40 AM

So,
Slowking @ Lefties
Sassy | 252 HP / 72 Def / 184 SDef
~Slack Off
~Calm Mind
~Surf/Ice Beam (beam is for specsmence or should i go Stab?)
~Grass Knot.

What can't it handle?

LethalTexture December 2nd, 2007 1:54 AM

It's all down to personal preference, I'd say. If you're gonna be using him in the OU tier, you're probably gonna be seeing Garchomp/Salamence alot. But then, you'd get walled by Steel types. So in the end, it's all down to you.

Archer December 6th, 2007 8:46 PM

Ice Beam and Grass Knot sounds nice.
Any other suggestions?

EDIT: Oh and Itachi, could you please explain your reasoning behind the Natures on Vire?

Darkblade December 11th, 2007 5:22 PM

Id say Ice beam, just too get rid of those dragon types, and some annoying nubers

Archer December 11th, 2007 6:02 PM

OK. I'm about to build this team, but three more things need looking into.
1) Infernapes EVs
2) I don't like Donphans Moveset. Somehting is wrong...
3) Is there any alternative to skarm? its boring.

Ársa December 12th, 2007 12:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mullac51 (Post 3131801)
ahhhhh....

[email protected] Clay
Calm
Serene Grace
252 HP, 252 Sp, Def, 6 Sp. Atk

Light Screen
Air Slash/Tri Attack
Counter
Wish

or

[email protected]
Calm
Serene Grace
252 HP, 252 Sp. Def, 6 Sp. Atk

Thunder Wave/Body Slam
Seismic Toss/Air Slash
Encore
Wish/Roost/Softboiled

~M51


Did you see this? Also, if you want a change on Skarm, try this then:

[email protected]/Enigma Berry
Impish
252 HP, 252 Def, 6 Atk

Ice Fang
Earthquake
Stealth Rock
Slack Off

A true beast. ;)


~M51

Archer December 13th, 2007 2:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mullac51 (Post 3163640)
Did you see this? Also, if you want a change on Skarm, try this then:

[email protected]/Enigma Berry
Impish
252 HP, 252 Def, 6 Atk

Ice Fang
Earthquake
Stealth Rock
Slack Off

A true beast. ;)


~M51

~I saw it, but i'm happy with slowking at the moment thanks.

~As much as i like that Hippowdon moveset, i can't use it for two reasons.
----1) Its far to similar to my Donphan
----2) Sandstream will kill my Gengars strategy with focus sash.

~So are there any other good physical walls?

Ársa December 13th, 2007 2:51 PM

I forgot about your Donphan...lol

Let me just have a think...

~M51

Quote:

Originally Posted by archer
So, here is my NEW team. Rate, etc;

Infernape (♂) @ Life Orb
Ability: Blaze
EVs: 76 Atk/252 Spd/180 SAtk Still Need advice here.
Naive nature (+Spd, -SDef)
- Flamethrower
- Grass Knot
- Thunderpunch
- Close Combat
---
NOTES: Mixape.

Electivire (♂) @ Expert Belt
Ability: Motor Drive
EVs: 252 Atk, 176 Spd, 80 Sp. Atk
Lonely nature (+Spd, -SDef)
- Earthquake
- Cross Chop
- Thunderbolt
- Ice Punch
---
NOTES: Standard Vire. TBolt to hit skarm.

[email protected]
Bold
252 HP, 202 Def, 56 Spd

Baton Pass
Mean Look
Toxic / Rest / Wish
Toxic / Rest / Wish

You can lead with this, and trap an opponents pokemon with Mean Look, then BP to something that can handle it. (If you like, BP to a CM'r, such as Slowking, which gives it far better chances of Surviving attacks, and is now a serious threat as a Sp. Sweeper.


Gengar (♂) @ Focus Sash
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 SAtk/252 Spd
Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
-Shadow Ball
-Focus Blast
-Thunderbolt
-Hypnosis

Slowking (♂) @ Lefties
Ability: Levitate jks. Own Tempo
EVs: 252 HP/252 SDef
Calm Nature (+SDef, -Atk)
-Grass Knot / Energy Ball / Hidden Power Grass / Surf
-Ice Beam
-Calm Mind
-Slack Off

Simply put, I have added some more choices for the first option. Surf gives STAB, and for the EB and HP Grass, those are other Grass Attacks you can use instead of Grass Knot. Reasoning for this is simple. Many pokemon that resist Ice Beam won't take as much damage from Grass Knot, where as the other two could provide a more stable attack. Add to that the possibility of CM up due to Umbreon Mean Look Passing, and the other attacks may be a better option.

Donphan (♂) @ Lefties
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 252 HP/252 Def
Impish nature (+Def, -SAtk)
- Earthquake
- Ice Shard
- Rapid Spin
- Fire Fang / Roar / Stealth Rock

Ok, so there are my changes. I'll need to have a look after my post at possible threats though...

~M51

Archer December 13th, 2007 5:03 PM

Just a few questions about that last rate.

~Couldnt Vire do with a speed boost?

~Umbreon is nice, but why the speed evs? I would be inclined to make it Relaxed (-Spd +Def) so you can switch after the attack.

~Surf/Ice beam is resisted by starmie, which is a common physical sweeper. I was thinking, Ice beam/Shadow ball covers almost all threats.
Gengar - Shadow Ball
Azelf - Shadow Ball
Alakazam - Shadow Ball
Starmie - Shadow Ball
Specsmence - Ice Beam
Yanmega - Ice Beam

Can you suggest any more spec sweepers it needs to hit?

~Lastly, something seems wrong with Donphans moveset. Could you please look over that again?

Thanks for your help.

Ársa December 13th, 2007 5:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by archer (Post 3167363)
Just a few questions about that last rate.

~Couldnt Vire do with a speed boost?

~Umbreon is nice, but why the speed evs? I would be inclined to make it Relaxed (-Spd +Def) so you can switch after the attack.

~Surf/Ice beam is resisted by starmie, which is a common physical sweeper. I was thinking, Ice beam/Shadow ball covers almost all threats.
Gengar - Shadow Ball
Azelf - Shadow Ball
Alakazam - Shadow Ball
Starmie - Shadow Ball
Specsmence - Ice Beam
Yanmega - Ice Beam

Can you suggest any more spec sweepers it needs to hit?

~Lastly, something seems wrong with Donphans moveset. Could you please look over that again?

Thanks for your help.

I forgot about Shadow Ball, but you didn't have it on your original set either...lol

You had Grass Knot, so I gave you other options for that.... :P:P

What do you mean with the Umbreon statement? I agree it should probably be Impish with that set, but I gave it speed EV's to outspeed some of the lower speed pokemon, so it is able to get in a Mean Look before the opponent can switch. Relaxed decreases this even more anyway.

With your Counters, I know I run my Yanmega with Focus Sash (And before you scream SR weak, yes I know...lol)

With Focus Sash, Yanmega would be able to take out Slowking anyway, as long as Slowking didn't have any CM's up it backside...lol

I run my Donphan like this:

[email protected]
Impish
252 Atk, 220 Def, 36 Atk - (Atk EV's to 2HKO no HP/Def EV Garchomp)

Ice Shard
Earthquake
Stealth Rock
Roar

I was thinking of Rapid Spin, but I tried with Roar, and it actually worked really well.

Regards,


~M51

Faceless* December 13th, 2007 5:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by archer (Post 3125670)
Why, it can do with the extra speed. Its base 95 isnt it? with UP Spd, you can outrun a Modest Specsmence.

Usually if it's a Specsmence, they would always run Hasty/Naive/Timid

All you need is one Motor Drive boost on Electivire, and it's got that "Scarf" support without being locked into one move

Normally you would run Naive on Electivire for Timid Porygon-Z, but Hasty is always better since Electivire can survive Surfs and Ice Beams

For my opinion, however, I would just run Lonely

Ársa December 13th, 2007 5:16 PM

Thankyou Name. :) (I wasn't aware of the stats, but Lonely is best in this case)

~M51


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