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sims796 November 19th, 2007 11:04 AM

Review 3.0
 
This should hopefully be my last RMT thread, but I don't feel like reviving the old one. I've made a few notible changes.


[email protected]/Wacan Berry***Dragoon
Nature:Adamant
Waterfall
Stone Edge
Dragon Dance
Taunt
EV:212 HP/16 ATK/180 DEF/100 SPD
Physical Sweeper. Standard Tauntdos. Painful when played right, although I may give him a wii bit more ATK.

[email protected] Sash***Sparks
Nature:Timid
T-bolt
Grass Knot
Focus Blast
Nasty Plot
EV:MAX SP.ATK/MAX SPD/6 SP.DEF
Special Sweeper. He abuses Focus Sash for powerful moves. For instance, if Specsmence causes me grief, I can last with Sash to hit hard.

[email protected]***Nickname in thought
Nature:Relaxed
Gyro Ball
EQ
Rapid Spin
Spikes/Stealth Rock
EV:MAX HP/88 ATK/164 DEF
Physical Wall. Also my Spinner, & Trap setter. Because he is my prime wall, Explosion is not an option.

[email protected]***Spam
Nature:Calm
Psychic
Energy Ball
Reflect
T-wave/Magic Coat
EV:MAX HP/52 SP.ATK/200 SP.DEF
Special Wall. This was a tough trade-off from Noctowl. As much as I love Noctowl, it didn't help my bolt-beam weakness. Hell, she made it worse. Grumpig, however, has higher Sp.Defence, higher Sp.Attack, a more diverse movepool, & Thick Fat, which damn well helps me out. Unfortunately, he lacks what Noctowl has-a reliable healing move. Still, pro outweighs the con.

[email protected] Orb***Yoshi
Nature:Naughty
EQ
Dragon Claw
Fire Blast
Roost/U-Turn
EV:252 ATK/120 SP.ATK/136 SPD
Mixed Sweeper (Orb). What is the proper EV spread for this? I want it to be a SkarmBliss killer. But I lose the Speed my team craves with this set.

[email protected] Sludge***Petals
Nature:Calm
Energy Ball
Hidden Power [ICE]
Aromatherapy
Sleep Powder
EV:244 HP/90 SP.ATK/140 SP.DEF/30 DEF
Cleric. My team favorite! He is also a limited mixed wall. I discovered this when I accidentally gave him DEF EV's while training him in SP.DEF. His typing allows him much survivability. Although he has many weaknesses, not all are seen that often.


So, whadda think? Better than last time.

UPDATES
Using Life Orb Flygon. Due to lack of a Naive Ditto, using Iceman's set.
Changed Grumpig IV's. More SP.DEF, less SP.ATK. Until I get T-Wave, will use Magic Coat.

Dark Azelf November 19th, 2007 11:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sims796 (Post 3097011)

[email protected]/Wacan Berry***Dragoon
Nature:Adamant
Waterfall
Stone Edge
Dragon Dance
Taunt
EV:212 HP/16 ATK/180 DEF/100 SPD

Looks fine, your psychic i changed mine to that too and ditched Ice Fang and Earthquake lol. Lefties please, its meant to be bulky (hence the name BulkyDos) and cant be as effective without Leftovers. If your worried about electric attacks, then you have Vileplume and Flygon to switch in.


[email protected] Sash***Sparks
Nature:Timid
T-bolt
Grass Knot
Focus Blast
Nasty Plot
EV:MAX SP.ATK/MAX SPD/6 SP.DEF

Again looks fine, i like this set.

[email protected]***Nickname in thought
Nature:Relaxed
Gyro Ball
EQ
Rapid Spin
Spikes/Stealth Rock
EV:MAX HP/88 ATK/164 DEF

You can put Rest on this >> Spike /Stealth Rock if you want and abuse it with Vileplume's Aromatherapy seeing as its your solitary physical wall.


[email protected]***Spam
Nature:Calm
Psychic
Energy Ball
Reflect / Light Screen
T-wave
252HP/56def/200sdef

A bit more defensive EVS if it as your special wall...

You can also consider Light Screen, so you dont die to Gengar and for more team support, or Hell even Calm Mind. Dont Put trick on this if its your special wall and cant afford to do that with it, also you have nothing to trick onto them and im sure your opponent would love getting leftovers handed to them lol

Id also say thunderwave in that last slots as you said yourself you lack speed once Raichu and Flygon dies.




[email protected] Orb***Yoshi
Nature:Naughty
EQ
Dragon Claw
Fire Blast
Roost/U-Turn
EV:: 32hp/252atk/8def/216spd

Put evs on that for you, however that one required Naive Nature.....

OR

Flygon:Choice Scarf***Yoshi
Nature:Naughty
EQ
U-Turn
Fire Blast
Dragon Claw/Draco Meteor
EV:MAX ATK/120 SP.ATK/120 SP.D

That looks fine

[email protected] Sludge***Petals
Nature:Calm
Energy Ball
Hidden Power [ICE]
Aromatherapy
Sleep Powder

Again looks fine



Changes are in boldness...

TP-BigWill November 19th, 2007 11:35 AM

Not bad...but I would give Raichu quick attack for thoose annoying Focus sashes.

Also you would want to slip in a Flash Fire pokemon such as Ninetails or Arcanine to benefit Foretress since it's one weakness usualy leads to an OHKO.

Also give Grumpig Trick Room since that lack of speed might be you're demise.

but other thn that it's a solid team.....9/10

Ooka November 19th, 2007 11:36 AM

Actually, Flygon and Gyarados suck up fire attacks extremely well, so he doesn't need a fire type.

TP-BigWill November 19th, 2007 11:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ~Kazaam~ (Post 3097065)
Actually, Flygon and Gyarados suck up fire attacks extremely well, so he doesn't need a fire type.

I'm pretty sure you know this, but when a flash fire poke gets hit with a fire attack, they take no damage, and in return, their fire type moves get a 1.5x power boost

Ooka November 19th, 2007 11:46 AM

Yeah, i know that, all I'm saying is there isn't a need to waste a team slot just to prevent fire pokemon from hurting.

sims796 November 19th, 2007 11:48 AM

Flygon, Gyarados, AND Grumpig takes Fire.

Trick room hinders my team. My team may be slow, but not that slow. Raichu has max Speed. Gya isn't that slow.

I'm not that scared of Gengar, although I must consider your spread. I was gonna give Grumpig an item like Iron Ball or Choice Specs if I went with Trick, but I don't care for Trick to begin with.

The reason I thought Magic Coat was because of Gengar. I KNOW that SOB will try Hypnosis, so it can be bounced back, though I'm not sure. I'm not too crazy on that EV spread, although I get your logic.

Which Flygon should I use? I'm confused on that.

EDIT:Quick Attack is an option...

TP-BigWill November 19th, 2007 11:51 AM

I don't really see how that's a waste.......
Get a sweeping Arcanine with all EV's in ATK and SPD, and the boost to his fire attacks doesn't suit the opponents.

I agree with you on the point of just having a body there would be a waste, but that stratagy is the equivelent to the T-Bolt switch to Electrive. Foretress has godly defenses so A fire attacker is bound to mosey on in. Switch it out to you're lovely sweeper and bob's you're uncle robert's you're fathers brother......you got an Arcanine/Ninetale/Heatran on roids!

sims796 November 19th, 2007 11:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TP-BigWill (Post 3097092)
I don't really see how that's a waste.......
Get a sweeping Arcanine with all EV's in ATK and SPD, and the boost to his fire attacks doesn't suit the opponents.

I agree with you on the point of just having a body there would be a waste, but that stratagy is the equivelent to the T-Bolt switch to Electrive. Foretress has godly defenses so A fire attacker is bound to mosey on in. Switch it out to you're lovely sweeper and bob's you're uncle robert's you're fathers brother......you got an Arcanine/Ninetale/Heatran on roids!

Thats good logic, & I considered that myself, but I didn't want to replace pokes. But Quick Attack is a great option.

Dark Azelf November 19th, 2007 11:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sims796 (Post 3097087)
Flygon, Gyarados, AND Grumpig takes Fire.

Trick room hinders my team. My team may be slow, but not that slow. Raichu has max Speed. Gya isn't that slow.

I'm not that scared of Gengar, although I must consider your spread. I was gonna give Grumpig an item like Iron Ball or Choice Specs if I went with Trick, but I don't care for Trick to begin with.

The reason I thought Magic Coat was because of Gengar. I KNOW that SOB will try Hypnosis, so it can be bounced back, though I'm not sure. I'm not too crazy on that EV spread, although I get your logic.


Which Flygon should I use? I'm confused on that.

EDIT:Quick Attack is an option...


Well not necessarily, what happens when Gengar uses shadow Ball (As in Choice Specs variant)??, Thats why i put it with Special wall evs and Light Screen so you can take hits like that because, well thats its job.... You also dont really need Magic Coat, well because of Aromatherapy....

On the Flygon set, its up to you on which set you use, i was just saying that the Life Orb one requires Naive Nature and not Naughty like you originally had.

Ooka November 19th, 2007 11:56 AM

Well, the thing is, if you get out an Arcanine and it takes a Flamethrower from a Ninetails, what does it do then? It certainly can't hit back with powered up Flamethrowers because Ninetails has Flash Fire. Then you get put to sleep by a Ninetails, a switch and you find yourself agains an Electivire. I say it's a bad idea.

sims796 November 19th, 2007 12:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dark_Azelf (Post 3097111)
Well not necessarily, what happens when Gengar uses shadow Ball ??, Thats why i put it with Special wall evs and Light Screen so you can take hits like that because, well thats its job.... You also dont really need Magic Coat, well because of Aromatherapy....

On the Flygon set, its up to you on which set you use, i was just saying that the Life Orb one requires Naive Nature and not Naughty like you originally had.

I spoke to Samson on that. My Vileplume can handle Gengar quite well, & he hasn't a single move that sets Plume in dire jepardy. They take hits for each other. Grumppy absorbs Psychic, Fire, Ice, Plume takes the rest. I just love Reflecting moves back at people, hence why I was pissed that Spam can't learn Mirror Coat. I might remove those Defence EV's, but keep the 200 SP.DEF. But I might keep T-wave, its less situational.

As for Flygon, I really can't decide. I was up all night, but couldn't decide.

Ooka November 19th, 2007 12:04 PM

I like the Life Orb one, it doesn't require a switch after you kill Skarm or Bliss.

TP-BigWill November 19th, 2007 12:05 PM

Arcanine packs other moves too....it doesn't have to always use fire type moves.
What I'm saying is that his ability maxes out his stabbed attacks for other pokemon.
This would make a mix sweeper Arcanine possible. <___<
Who would flame thrwer a flash fire poke on purpose anyways?

sims796 November 19th, 2007 12:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TP-BigWill (Post 3097136)
Arcanine packs other moves too....it doesn't have to always use fire type moves.
What I'm saying is that his ability maxes out his stabbed attacks for other pokemon.
This would make a mix sweeper Arcanine possible. <___<
Who would flame thrwer a flash fire poke on purpose anyways?

All true, but as I said, I don't wanna replace pokes.

I understand, though. I made the poor mistake of using Sunny Day...I hate Arcanine...

Dark Azelf November 19th, 2007 12:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sims796 (Post 3097127)
I spoke to Samson on that. My Vileplume can handle Gengar quite well, & he hasn't a single move that sets Plume in dire jepardy. They take hits for each other. Grumppy absorbs Psychic, Fire, Ice, Plume takes the rest. I just love Reflecting moves back at people, hence why I was pissed that Spam can't learn Mirror Coat. I might remove those Defence EV's, but keep the 200 SP.DEF.

As for Flygon, I really can't decide. I was up all night, but couldn't decide.

Well if a Gengar has hidden power Ice like someones i know *CoughNAMECough* then problems will arise. Then they will not take hits for each other as Grumpig is weak to Shadow Ball in its Gengars arsenal aswell.

Well its all a matter of speed vs the ability to use moves freely. Scarf Flygon gets to about 404 Speed with those evs i believe. Whilst Life Orb has more power and the ability to use moves freely.

Also watch out for Blisseys that pack Ice Beam as you wont OHKO it with either set with EQ ......

sims796 November 19th, 2007 12:14 PM

I know about HP ICE, Plume took that with surprising resistance. It was Name's Gengar as well.

With SPD Flygon, I never fear Gengar. But I lose the ability to SkarmBliss kill.

TP-BigWill November 19th, 2007 12:14 PM

Most Blisseys can't OHKO a Flygon with Ice beam.

Then again my Flygon has 30 IVs in Sp.Def...lulz....

But the thing with the "other dragon" is it's mixed ability to fight anything it feels like.

Garchomp = Speed/atk boosting item, and Outrage/EQ...al the time... <_<

Flygon puts out every move. Mines has EQ, Dragon Pulse, Crunch and Fire Blast to Ensnarf a variety of pokemon.
I would go with Life Orb to cleanse out this problem. Besides...most gengars arent HP ice.....they're usualy of the "Shadow Ball, Psychic, T-Bolt" Variety

sims796 November 19th, 2007 12:24 PM

I forgot how hard it is to even get HP ICE.

Despite being inferior to the other dragons, Flygon has things going that the others do not. Unlike Mence, he is immune to Electric, & unlike Chomp, he is immune to Spikes & EQ, & has a reliable healing move. It's like the child of Mence & Chomp.

Dark Azelf November 19th, 2007 12:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TP-BigWill (Post 3097159)
Most Blisseys can't OHKO a Flygon with Ice beam.

Then again my Flygon has 30 IVs in Sp.Def...lulz....

But the thing with the "other dragon" is it's mixed ability to fight anything it feels like.

Garchomp = Speed/atk boosting item, and Outrage/EQ...al the time... <_<

Flygon puts out every move. Mines has EQ, Dragon Pulse, Crunch and Fire Blast to Ensnarf a variety of pokemon.
I would go with Life Orb to cleanse out this problem. Besides...most gengars arent HP ice.....they're usualy of the "Shadow Ball, Psychic, T-Bolt" Variety

Its nearly a OHKO infact maybe, your cutting it pretty close.

32 HP EV Flygon takes

Damage: 264 - 311
Damage: 85.44% - 100.65%

from a 0 sp.att ev Blissey

and

6 hp ev Flygon takes

Damage: 87.71% - 103.32%

from a 0 ev Sp.Att Blissey.


Either way your cutting it pretty close to a OHKO.

Maybe the Blissey you came up against had crappy sp.att evs ??

sims796 November 19th, 2007 12:47 PM

So I'll beef up Grumpig's Sp.defence, (& try Light Screen), & I supose I'll go with Life Orb. Why Naive?

EDIT:Oh, I see.

Damn! Now I need a Naive Ditto!

Samson November 19th, 2007 5:12 PM

nuuuu keep reflect. if gengar does have HP ice, then grumpig will be there to take the hit. and if gengar decides to follow up with shadow ball, grumpig WILL survive a non-Specs shadow ball, allowing it to paralyze it, and punish it with Psychic the following turn. i say paralyze first just in case it is the Focus Sash variety, then you always have the option of letting grumpig make the sacrifice so one pokemon doesn't sweep the entire team.

uh btw sims, your flygon has some evs left out o.O 120 + 120=240... it has 16 more!

Iceman3k November 19th, 2007 5:57 PM

Too lazy to read the rest of the topic :p
Quote:

Originally Posted by sims796 (Post 3097011)
This should hopefully be my last RMT thread, but I don't feel like reviving the old one. I've made a few notible changes.


[email protected]/Wacan Berry***Dragoon
Nature:Adamant
Waterfall
Stone Edge
Dragon Dance
Taunt
EV:212 HP/16 ATK/180 DEF/100 SPD
Physical Sweeper. Standard Tauntdos. Painful when played right, although I may give him a wii bit more ATK.
That Gyarados

[email protected] Sash***Sparks
Nature:Timid
T-bolt
Grass Knot
Focus Blast
Nasty Plot
EV:MAX SP.ATK/MAX SPD/6 SP.DEF
Special Sweeper. He abuses Focus Sash for powerful moves. For instance, if Specsmence causes me grief, I can last with Sash to hit hard.
HE KILLED MY BELOVED :horns: )':

[email protected]***Nickname in thought
Nature:Relaxed
Gyro Ball
EQ
Rapid Spin
Spikes/Stealth Rock
EV:MAX HP/88 ATK/164 DEF
Physical Wall. Also my Spinner, & Trap setter. Because he is my prime wall, Explosion is not an option.
You and I are the only ones who don't think Explosion. Looks fine.

[email protected]***Spam (sfdsfadsf)
Nature:Calm
Psychic
Energy Ball
Reflect
T-wave/Trick/Magic Coat
EV:MAX HP/88 SP.ATK/164 SP.DEF
Special Wall. This was a tough trade-off from Noctowl. As much as I love Noctowl, it didn't help my bolt-beam weakness. Hell, she made it worse. Grumpig, however, has higher Sp.Defence, higher Sp.Attack, a more diverse movepool, & Thick Fat, which damn well helps me out. Unfortunately, he lacks what Noctowl has-a reliable healing move. Still, pro outweighs the con.
I'd personally keep Thunder Wave. Paralysis pisses people off.

[email protected] Orb***Yoshi
Nature:Naughty
Earthquake
Dragon Claw
Fire Blast
Substitute
EV: 252 Atk / 136 Spd / 120 SAtk
Mixed Sweeper (Orb). What is the proper EV spread for this? I want it to be a SkarmBliss killer. But I lose the Speed my team craves with this set.

OR

Flygon:Choice Scarf***Yoshi
Nature:Naughty
Earthquake
U-Turn
Fire Blast
Dragon Claw/Draco Meteor
EV:MAX ATK/120 SP.ATK/136 SPD
Mixed Sweeper (Scarfed). With this, I can hammer pokes hard. Unfortunately, with this, SkarmBliss is harder to counter, however, I can slam things hard & fast. Which is better?
Probably stick with the first. Doesn't need much speed to run with anyway. Run Substitute to smack something hard before actually switching out.

[email protected] Sludge***Petals
Nature:Calm
Energy Ball
Hidden Power [ICE]
Aromatherapy
Sleep Powder
EV:244 HP/90 SP.ATK/140 SP.DEF/30 DEF
Cleric. My team favorite! He is also a limited mixed wall. I discovered this when I accidentally gave him DEF EV's while training him in SP.DEF. His typing allows him much survivability. Although he has many weaknesses, not all are seen that often.
We know you love Vileplumes ;)



So, whadda think? Better than last time.

Although you have Grumpig to block Electivire, that thing's still intimidating =(.

sims796 November 19th, 2007 6:13 PM

Since I lack a Naive Ditto, I'll go with Iceman's set. So now, I don't know...where is Life Orb found?

Also, do most Vire run with Max Speed? This is so I can better prepare.

Iceman3k November 19th, 2007 6:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sims796 (Post 3098473)
Since I lack a Naive Ditto, I'll go with Iceman's set. So now, I don't know...where is Life Orb found?

Also, do most Vire run with Max Speed? This is so I can better prepare.

Electivire is normally to be ran with 270 Speed to begin with, so with Motor Drive, it reaches 405.

BUT, I've seen some teams posted on this forum, which had Electivires with total Speed Overkill (289 Speed). Some people running Naive with Max Speed EVs (317 Speed), I'm like OH COME ON =/


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