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Pokemon Discussion
Here's the deal: Smarties has brought to my attention the flaws in this thread. After reading what Smarties had to say, I have to agree. And this is my own fault. The discussion moved too fast, decisions were made in a rash manner, and the format was unorganized. So, frankly, we're starting over. This time, we'll give a certain Pokemon a day's worth of attention. You may post what you feel is an effective move set for that particular species and once we have several move sets, they will be discussed and as a group, we will decide what we consider the best move set. With some Pokemon, there won't be a single effective move set. Therefore, we will have links to the Request a Team / Move Set thread where you may ask for an alternative move set from the one listed. And for today, I'd like to start with a Pokemon we had discussed earlier today and I am interested in discussing myself:
rules: 1.) Do not request a specific Pokemon to be discussed. PM me and we will discuss your requested species in the near future. 2.) Refrain from insulting others if their opinions differ from your own. This will result in flaming and more than likely, a warn or a stern disciplining. 3.) Be creative. Don't just repost move sets from other sites (Smogon, Marrilland, etc.) If you feel this move set is worth mentioning, by all means post it. Anything that adds to the conversation is appreciated. 4.) Of course, follow all Pokecommunity Rules. Current Pokemon for Discussion: Honchkrow Finished Pokemon: - Hariyama |
Thanks ^_^ the PM idea was the perfect solution. now then...
Gliscor @ Leftovers Trait: Hyper Cutter (I think O_O) EVs: 252 HP / 40 Atk / 216 Def Impish Nature (+Def, -SAtk) - Roost - Aerial Ace - Earthquake - Swords Dance My prefered set. I believe it can learn knock off, which would work over SD. |
lol Loquacity u locked 90% of the threads here ><:
Gliscor @ Leftovers Trait: Hyper Cutter Nature: Impish EVs: 252 HP / 172 Attack / 80 Defense - Knock Off / Roost / Stone Edge - Earthquake - Aerial Ace - Stealth Rock |
Eh, don't you think a physical wall pokemon is going to need more defence than that? I mean, it needs it...
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Yea I suppose. But Gliscor can Attack too. I guess 510 EVs ain't enough ><;
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then again, my set abuses SD and often used my subpassing Vappy, so yeah...but it'll need a few more, definately.
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Congrats Loquacity! Modded!
Gliscor should probably have something to counter his ICe weakness though, like maybe Brick Break. I dunno, Im guessing. |
However, very few Ice-Type Pokemon are found in OU, so Brick Break may not be necessary.
I closed them because they needed to be. Useless threads. |
I don't think it would be wise to stay in on suck ice types that ruin your day. Subpassing works well with gliscor actually, gives it a free hit to take a beam from starmie or whatever sweeper it may be.
EDIT: STAB EQ does as much as supereffective BB... |
True, I guess. Gliscor COULD go Screech over SD, but SD is probably the bteer choice
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Ermm... no. Screech or any other move that reduces the opponent's stats are fail. Its destroyed by a simple switch.
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EDIT: And forcing switches is a very valuable thing BTW |
Yeah, force something to switch out gives you time to plan and attack.
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Actually, moves like Screech are used as some form of PseudoHaze.
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The thing is, there is a lot Gliscor can do. He can pass Att or Speed (Swords Dance/Rock Polish), U-Turn any incoming switches, Stealth Rock, be a physical wall. He's pretty fast, and can come in on a fair bit of stuff too.
Brick Break is kinda useless on Gliscor as there are few Ice types and Ice Beam/Blizzard/HP Ice are all commonly seen on many non-Ice types. In general, water types give him trouble. As also mentioned, he is a great Heracross counter, able to come in on Close Combat/Megahorn/Stone Edge all pretty easily, resisting the first two, and is able to pick him off with Aerial Ace. |
Does reducing a Starmie's Defense stat really help though?
But anyways, back on the point - Swords Dance is better than Screech. . . unless you want to PHaze |
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I like my Gliscor with Ice Fang for those annoying DDMence's that like to come in and attempt a set up
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Screech Gliscor would work reasonably well with Stealth Rock/Spikes support, as with any tactic revolving around phazing.
Gliscor @ Leftovers Trait: Hyper Cutter EV: 252 HP / 48 Att / 208 Def Nature: Impish Screech Earthquake Aerial Ace/Stone Edge Roost/Stealth Rock/U-Turn |
[email protected]
Trait - HyperCutter/SandVeil Moves - - Earthquake - IceFang/ThunderFang/StoneEdge - Roost - StealthRock/AerialAce/StoneEdge =P Could we discuss on a different Pokemon now? |
Yes, let's discuss Tauros. (As requested by Anti)
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Oh yay! Well, I'm looking more at ADV, vut seeing as I just downloaded Shoddy (don't ask), either gen is cool.
Tauros (M) @ Choice Band Trait: Intimidate EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk) - Earthquake - Sleep Talk - Hidden Power [Rock] - Double-Edge Is what I've got. Suggestions? Oh, that set was for ADV BTW. |
Return over Double Edge is what I'd prefer, and for 4th Gen (even though you ain't really into it) Zen Headbutt gives him a better chance against some fighters like Heracross, although the Scarfcross will still be a problem.
Pursuit also gives him an option for attacking Gengar/Dusknoir/Spiritomb. [email protected] Band Intimidate Jolly Nature EVs: 252 Atk, 252 Spd, 6 HP -Return/Double Edge/Body Slam -Earthquake -Stone Edge/Rock Slide/Hidden Power Rock* -Zen Headbutt/Pursuit/Sleep Talk* * for 3rd Gen options |
Ok, Tauros is done. Let's move on to DEWGONG!
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[email protected] **HAXHAPPY**
Calm/Bold Nature EVs: 252 HP, 152 Def, 106 Sp Def (w/ Bold) 252 HP, 152 Sp Def, 106 Def (w/ Calm) -Rest -Sleep Talk -Horn Drill -Sheer Cold OHKO's all round, used to annoy my friends with this on Emerald, although thanks to OHKO clause it's no longer viable Umm... [email protected]/Damp Rock Hydration Calm/Bold Nature EVs: 252 HP, 152 Def, 106 Sp Atk -Rain Dance -Surf -Ice Beam -Hidden Power Electric/Grass |
Er, I think Dewgong can make decent use of encore...I think? lol
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Why don't we abuse Rest and attack Rain Dance to it? Rest + Rain Dance + Hydration = Free Full HP Restore EVERY turn + Surf Power Boost
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Mayeb it could mock boltbeam with HP eletric and ice beam?
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So.. This is just like Smogon now? DP Analysis's? O__o
Dewgong (M) @ Damp Rock / Leftovers ** Giant Seel Trait: Hydration EV's: 252 HP / 252 SAtk / 4 Def Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk) - Rain Dance - Surf - Ice Beam - Rest. |
Erm... Okay Mullac51 where did all that come from? O.o
Itachi's set is probably what I'm talking about. |
Oh, yes, for the record, Dewgong is BL.
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Mullac, that wasn't necessary. This is for individual analysis. Okay, I feel we have established a sound Dewgong set, so now time to do another request:
MOTHIM! |
Well, one guy asked for Sharpedo, we'll do that next.
Mothim @ Choice Specs / Scarf ** I own you Trait: Swarm EV's: 6 HP / 252 Spd / 252 SAtk Timid Nature (+Spd,-Atk) - Bug Buzz - Air Slash - Energy Ball / U-Turn - Shadow Ball. :P |
Maybe stick a an HP in there for more coverage ._. Water, maybe?X_x
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[COLOR="Navy"] |
Okay, let's not just repost Smogon sets each time. Think of unique strategies if you can. Next, we'll do:
Sharpedo! |
Hmmm Mothim? It has a cool shiny...
Shadow Ball in for HP Ground, to cover Electric and Fire weakness, and Energy Ball overU-Tirn to cover rock. DANG Loquacvity was faster. Ok Shapedo, ask Azonic... |
HP Rock? What gen is this?
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Hm.. Ok..
Sharpedo (M) @ Focus Sash ** Azonic Trait: Rough Skin EV's: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk) - Waterfall - Agility - Crunch / Night Slash - Earthquake. :P Focus Sash to survive, and Agility.. Well.. To Outspeed.. Maybe Taunt could fit somewhere on the Set. :P |
Yeah people who just copy Smogon aren;t really raters at all. No thought goes into it, I, use serebii, make up the sets, and take the lumps if they suck.
Shapedo-Choice Scarf Adamant-252 Atk, 252 Speed, 4 HP Waterfall ICe Fang Earthquake Crunch |
This maybe one:
Sharpedo: @Focus Sash/ Life orb Nature:Adamant -252 att, 252 spd, 4 hp Crunch/ Night slash Waterfall Earthquake Ice fang/ Poison Jab Yeah I think that's good. :) |
I believe the Choice Scarf set is the most viable. Anyway, time for a new Pokemon:
Kangaskhan! |
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Trait: Scrappy Adamant / Jolly Nature - Return - Sucker Punch - Outrage - Brick Break. Decent. |
Kangaskhan @ Leftovers
Trait: Scrappy EVs: 252 HP / 128 Atk / 64 Def / 64 Sp. Def -uhhhh, maybe I will. Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk) - Focus Punch - Return - Rest - Substitute OMG, I made a moveset. |
Kangaskhan:
@Life orb Trait:Scrappy Evs: 252 att, 252 spd, 4 hp Earthquake Brick Break Sucker punch Return/Crush Claw. That sounds sweet! :) |
Alright, I'm going to go with the Subpunching Kangaskhan. It's been requested that we do Mismagius next.
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Mismagius:
@lefties Modest nature 252 spatt, 252 spd, 4spdef/ hp. t-bolt/ charge beam Energy ball shadow ball calm mind/ hp [fighting]/dark pulse. That's nice. O_o |
Mismagius @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate EVs: 252 Sp. Atk / 252 Spd / 6 HP Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk) - Thunderbolt - Hidden Power [Ice] - Shadow Ball - Pain Split MockBoltBeamer. |
Sweet my Sharpedo set got chosen. Hmm, Mismagius.
Mismagius-Lum Berry Calm-252 HP, 252 SpDef, 4 SpAtk Perish Song Mean Look Rest Omninous Wind I dunno, but Perish Song+Mean Look is an evil combo. |
Mismagius (F) @ Petaya Berry / Life Orb ** Ghostly Indvividual
Trait: Levitate Modest / Timid Nature - Calm Mind - Thunderbolt / Dark Pulse / Shadow Ball - Will-o-Wisp / Thunder Wave - Pain Split. :P |
Mismagius @ Lum Berry
Trait: Levitate Nature: Timid Evs: 252 SAttack / 252 Speed / 4 HP - Shadowball - Will-o-Wisp - Thunderbolt - Hidden Power [ICE] Will-o-Wisp since Mismagius has a bad defense, so most pokemon would want to pick on it. After the opponent is burned, then you can just sweep away ... |
I'm going with Azonic's move set. Next, let's do Hariyama.
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Hariyama:
@Lefties Adamant, 252 att, 252 hp, 6 def Trait:Guts Brick break Earthquake Stone edge belly drum/ poison jab/bullet punch. That's my best, unless you could with sub puncher. |
Hariyama @ Choice Band
Trait: Guts EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SDef Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk) - Cross Chop / Revenge - Thunderpunch - Ice Punch - Fire Punch Believe it or not, this set actually works well. Quakeslide is another option. |
Hariyama (M) @ Leftovers ** The Karate Kid
Trait: Guts Adamant Nature (+Atk, -Satk) - Rest - Sleep Talk - Knock Off - Close Combat / Earthquake. :P |
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the funny thing is hariyama has so many options and is so underrated. you can adjust it to your team in anyway you need that does not include special attacking.
Hariyama @ Choice Band Adamant Nature 252 ATK/252 HP/4 SPD Ability: Guts -Close Combat -Thunderpunch/Earthquake -Payback/Stone Edge/Knock Off -Sleep Talk/Fake Out easy Hariyama @ Leftovers/Lum Berry/Wide Lens Careful Nature Ability: Thick Fat 224 HP/164 SP DEF/120 ATK -Cross Chop/Close Combat -Knock Off/Counter/Ice Punch -Bulk Up/Protect/Substitute -Stone Edge/Earthquake can take special hits quite well and if you have a heatran or ice weak, he's your guy. there's no real function of it except to take hits, scare pokes like blissey and heatran away, and set up a sub/knock off/scout for moves. i wouldn't suggest using counter without bulk up. Hariyama @ Sitrus Berry/Salac Berry Impish Nature Ability: Guts/Thick Fat 228 HP/100 DEF/180 SPD -Close Combat -Faint Attack/Thunder Punch -Rock Slide/Stone Edge/Ice Punch -Belly Drum yeah, it's risky, but if it's a staller type team, you'll destroy it. |
I can always count on Samson for unique move sets. =D
It has been requested we do Crobat next! |
Crobat (M) @ Choice Band ** Bat-Man
Trait: Inner Focus Adamant / Jolly Nature - Quick Attack - Aerial Ace - Pursuit - U-Turn / X-Scissor. Mean Look and Hypnosis can't really work well on the fragile bat.. |
Crobat(M) @ Leftovers *Batman FTW!*
Trait: Inner Focus Nature: Timid EVs: 4 HP / 252 Sp Atk / 252 Spd ~ Nasty Plot ~ Air Slash ~ HP Ground/Ice ~ Dark Pulse |
Here's the deal: Smarties has brought to my attention the flaws in this thread. After reading what Smarties had to say, I have to agree. And this is my own fault. The discussion moved too fast, decisions were made in a rash manner, and the format was unorganized. So, frankly, we're starting over. This time, we'll give a certain Pokemon a day's worth of attention. You may post what you feel is an effective move set for that particular species and once we have several move sets, they will be discussed and as a group, we will decide what we consider the best move set. With some Pokemon, there won't be a single effective move set. Therefore, we will have links to the Request a Team / Move Set thread where you may ask for an alternative move set from the one listed. And for today, I'd like to start with a Pokemon we had discussed earlier today and I am interested in discussing myself:
Hariyama EDIT: First page has been edited with some new rules and this post. |
Hmm. So a different set from the one posted earlier?
Hariyama (M) @ Choice Band ** Black Belt Trait: Guts EV's: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SDef Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk) - Ice Punch - Cross Chop / Close Combat - Thunderpunch - Stone Edge. Yay. Credit to Anti for the whole Set. :P |
Hariyama is slower than any sleep inducer. Giving it jolly just seems stupid to me when it can hardly outspeed a relaxed natured steelix.
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I'm going to have to-CC and EQ is horribly redundant. An elemental punch would be of much more value to it than EQ...
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:/
Since relying on switching into gengar is probably a bad idea with it, I don't think sleep talk should be run on it unless it has rest, to be honest. If you'd rather switch into something like Blissey Twaving you (like me ;)), I'd run this set: Hariyama @ Choice Band Trait: Guts EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SDef Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk) - Cross Chop / Close Combat - Thunderpunch - Ice Punch - Stone Edge Mock boltbeaming give it the coverage it needs. The rest is prediction. blissey will switch out, probably to something like gengar. Or even Gyarados. Neither like taking thunderpunch right in the mouth ;) Stone edge is for flyers that might want to switch in, CC gets STAB. Just throwing stuff out there ;) |
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Er, close combat would work fine over cross chop.
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Um, I already posted the set. no need to have two of the same thing :/
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Well, if you want novelty........
Hariyama @ Leftovers Trait: Guts / Thick Fat EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def Adamant / Impish Nature - Counter - Bulk Up - Rest - Revenge Um...I dunno :/ |
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Hariyama @ Leftovers
Trait: Thick Fat Nature: Adamant EVs: 252 Attack / 252 HP / 4 Defense - Close Combat - Substitute / Sleep Talk - Ice Punch / Stone Edge / Knock Off - Earthquake Sleep Talk can annoy the frack out of Breloom, Gengar, and Milotic. Substitute is there to protect it from damage since it can't take hits that well - even with that HP stat. Close Combat is self explanitory. Stone Edge / Icepunch and Earthquake provide excellent coverage and it hits every pokemon with at least normal effectiveness except for Bronzong, which it already has Close Combat for. Knock Off can tear apart Choiced pokemon and many others. |
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there's nothing wrong with sleep talk on a CB set. gengar isn't that great of a threat when it has 252 HP evs. the max that Timid max sp atk Gengar can do to 252 HP Adamant Hariyama is 47.8%. yeah, sure that's nearly half, but if there's no one else to absorb sleep, then it's much better than allowing him to sweep your team.
but he really doesn't need CB anyway. switching into status w/ choice items is just something i'm fond of. |
Hariyama @ Leftovers
40 HP/252 Def/216 SDef -- Careful Knock Off Revenge Counter Whirlwind Bulky support. |
i saw a guy on Youtube use 1 of these
[email protected] orb ability: guts 252hp/148attack/rest Def Close Combat stone-edge knock-off protect w/ guts boost it wuz a monster since it can decently take hits... |
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Toxic Spikes always good news for Heracross =P
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Hariyama @ Toxic Orb
Trait: Guts Nature: Impish EV Spread: 252 HP / 148 ATK / 110 DEF - Close Combat - Stone Edge - Knock Off - Protect By Dragonzilla - Physical Sweeper / Support / Guts Abuse Hariyama @ Leftovers Ability: Guts / Thick Fat Nature: Careful EV Spread: 40 HP/252 Def/216 SDef - Knock Off - Revenge - Counter - Whirlwind By Shedinjask - Support Hariyama @ Leftovers Trait: Thick Fat Nature: Adamant EVs: 252 HP / 252 ATK / 4 DEF - Close Combat - Substitute / Sleep Talk - Ice Punch / Stone Edge / Knock Off - Earthquake By Azonic - Sleep Absorb / Physical Sweeper Hariyama @ Leftovers Trait: Guts Nature: Adamant EV Spread: 252 HP / 252 DEF / 6 SPDEF - Rest - Sleep Talk - Knock Off - Close Combat / Earthquake. By Itachi / Smogon - Bulky / Sleeptalker Set Hariyama @ Leftovers Trait: Guts / Thick Fat Nature: Adamant / Impish EV Spread: 252 HP / 4 ATK / 252 DEF - Counter - Bulk Up - Rest - Revenge By Anti - Novelty Set Hariyama @ Choice Band Trait: Guts Nature: Adamant EVs: 252 HP / 252 ATK / 4 SPDEF - Cross Chop - Thunderpunch - Ice Punch - Stone Edge By Anti - Mock Boltbeamer / Choice Bander Alright, there are all the sets that have been posted. I feel it will be difficult to choose a better set out of these numerous sets. For now, let's move on to another Pokemon. For this round, let's go with: Honchkrow |
You know, Loquacity, I always thought you were the best Mod. w/ Webbed Feet. 0_o
Honchcrow (F) @ Leftovers Trait: Insomina Calm Nature (+SDef, -Atk) - Roost - Thunder Wave - Dark Pulse - HP [Ground]. 0_o I don't like to Copy from Smogon, but if you say it was from Smogon.. |
You ALWAYS used to copy from Smogon.
Honchkrow-Lefotvers Jolly-252 Speed, 172 HP, 84 Attack Perish Song Mean Look Sucker Punch Roost Just made it up, looks pretty flawed. I dunno, could do some trapping and sucker punching |
Sp. sweeper:
Honchcrow @lefties Evs:252 spatt, 252 spd, 4 hp Hp [fighting] dark pulse nasty plot roost Or physical sweeper: Honchcrow @lefties Evs:252 att,, 252 spd, 4 hp drill peck night slash roost steel wing Honchcrow has a very limited offensive movepool sadly. :( |
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Also Return over Steel Wing on that set
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I was trying to figure out a mixed set and I had already typed out the Evs and then I found that there was not a good one so I changed the movepool and entered it...
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Honchkrow @ Leftovers
Ability: Super Luck EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spd / 6 HP Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk) - Drill Peck - Night Slash - Roost - Thunder Wave/Payback/Steel Wing (?) It's got a fairly limited moveset. |
Drill Peck over Wing Attack
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Also, Thunder Wave would have the most benefit for the last Slot.
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Specskrow:
Mafia [email protected] Specs Trait: Super Luck Nature: Modest EV's: 200 Spd/ 252 Sp. Atk/ 58 HP -Shadow Ball -Dark Pulse -Roost -Psychic Roost for when if you come into SR, also tricks the opponent into thinking it's a regular Honchkrow. Then BAM. |
Let's not forget that Honchkrow can learn Nasty Plot.
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Roost with Choice Specs is a no.
Honchkrow @ Choice Scarf Trait: Super Luck Nature: Naive EVs: 200 Attack / 56 SAttack / 252 Speed - Night Slash - Drill Peck - Hidden Power [FIGHTING] - Return [email protected] Sash Trait: Super Luck Nature: Naive EVs: 252 Speed / 200 Attack / 52 SAttack - Thunder Wave - Night Slash / Dark Pulse - Drill Peck - Hidden Power [FIGHTING] |
Roost on the Choice Specs set is a ploy to get the opponent to believe your Honchkrow isn't locked into one move. Then you surprise them with a powerful strike.
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After switching that is. I love how my horrid set never even get mentioned for being horrid. Also, Honchkrow, I dont think can really pull Nasty Plot off without a Sash, so hmm
Honchkrow-Focus Sash Timid-252 Speed, 252 SpAtk, 4 HP Nasty Plot Dark Pulse HP Fighting Psychic/Shadow Ball/Thunder Wave??? |
Honchkrow @ Leftovers/Lum Berry
Adamant Nature Ability: Insomnia 252 ATK/252 HP/4 DEF -Drill Peck -Sucker Punch -Taunt -Substitute basic idea. it's walled by any basic physical wall, but behind a sub, no one is going to like being Taunted. so really, anything that walls it is not going to like being tuanted, so it's an effective set. the only things that ACTUALLY wall it is faster Taunters like Gyara and even he doesn't like getting a Drill Peck right in the pooper. Honchkrow @ Leftovers Bold/Modest Nature [252 HP/140 DEF/116 SP ATK] or [180 SPD/124 HP/204 SP ATK] -Dark Pulse -HP Electric/Nasty Plot/Calm Mind -Substitute/Roost/Nasty Plot -Thunder Wave/Icy Wind/Calm Mind/Nasty Plot dark pulse is always a must, and thunderwave is pretty important too. the other moves are all about options. dark pulse + hp electric covers just about everything except cacturne. this set could easily be transformed into a mixed set, but i like CM and some people are extremely fond of Nasty Plot. |
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