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-   -   I miiiiiiiiight require some assistance;RMT (https://www.pokecommunity.com/showthread.php?t=117571)

ShadowAzelf November 27th, 2007 6:40 PM

I miiiiiiiiight require some assistance;RMT
 
Sceptile/LanceSmash @Leftovers
Timid Nature
EVs:252spd/196hp/60spattk

Leaf Storm
HP Ice
Leech Seed
Substitute

STATUS:Unbreeded

My subseeder with a little zing, it can attack Waters and Dragons aswell as subseed things with a lower speed.

Slowbro/Roshi @Leftovers
Bold Nature
EVs:252hp/232def/24spattk
Ability:Own Tempo

HP Electric
Ice Beam
Slack Off
Calm Mind

STATUS:Nowhere near breeded...

My Dos counter, this one can survive multiple hits and beef itself up with CM, Slack Off is an option for healing.

Heatran/Boom... @Choice Scarf
Modest Nature
EVs:252spattk/252spd/4hp

Heat Wave
Earth Power
HP Electric
Dragon Pulse

STATUS: SRing as we speak.

My spSweeper over Azelf and it pwns lots of things. The nickname is a lie to fool the players who always see ExplodingTrans. I won't use Explosion, it's a waste of a good sweeper.

Marowak/Kenpachi @Thick Club
Impish Nature
EVs:252attk/200hp/56def

Earthquake
Fire Punch
Thunder Punch
Substitute

STATUS:Unbreeded

My phys Tank, it mows through things, sub for when someone tries to screw me over with burns.

Bronzong/Ichimaru @Lum Berry
Sassy Nature
EVs:252hp/196spdef/60spattk

Gyro Ball
Psychic
Hypnosis
Block

STATUS:Nowhere near breeded.

My SpWall, it switches in on Vile and Gengar and kills them happily. Once a Nite/Chomp gets trapped in an Outrage, I can use Block and rape them to death...

Medicham/Medicharm @Expert Belt
Adamant Nature
EVs:252attk/252spd/4hp

Thunder Punch
Fire Punch
Bullet Punch
Ice Punch

STATUS: Breeded and EV'd;31/31/19/x/26/31

My phys sweeper, I'm not using a Scarf seeing as how Bullet Punch works fine on her. This set shouuuuuld benefit from the Expert Belt a lot.

luke November 27th, 2007 6:51 PM

Psycho Shift really only works with Cresselia in my experience. X.x; But it looks... interesting. Too tired to rate whole team however. Just wanted to give you a head's up.

Waffle-San November 27th, 2007 6:59 PM

It's not worth passing up a STABed Leaf Blade for Focus Blast/Dragon Pulse. Also Subseeding Sceptile is actually very effective with Detect. With great prediction it's a great Staller.

Not sure about your Marowak and Medicham, think you need a legitimate physical force. Plus, I may be the only one, but Medicham makes one awsome BPer.

ShadowAzelf November 27th, 2007 7:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Waffle-San (Post 3123085)
It's not worth passing up a STABed Leaf Blade for Focus Blast/Dragon Pulse. Also Subseeding Sceptile is actually very effective with Detect. With great prediction it's a great Staller.

Not sure about your Marowak and Medicham, think you need a legitimate physical force. Plus, I may be the only one, but Medicham makes one awsome BPer.

If I give Sceppy Leaf Blade over FB, a Skarmory or any steel type will come to wall it, over DPulse and Mence, Nite wall me. Detect won't fit in anywhere, Substitute works well with, SubSeed.

EDIT: Sceppy is Timid X_X.

What do you mean "legitimate" Phys Force?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Loquacity (Post 3123056)
Psycho Shift really only works with Cresselia in my experience. X.x; But it looks... interesting. Too tired to rate whole team however. Just wanted to give you a head's up.


I did some researching before I made this on possible Psycho Shifters, the best ones were-

1.Cresselia
2.Honchkrow
3.Togekiss

I find it near impossible to get a good, Bold/Calm/Relaxed/Sassy Natured Cress and Togekiss gets killed by anything that can outspeed it seeing as it has a burn and can only FlinchHax with T-Wave.

Anti November 27th, 2007 7:11 PM

Um, Marowak and Medicham are the two most bvruising physcial attackers in the game. I'd call that legitamate physical force.

Waffle-San November 27th, 2007 7:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ShadowAzelf (Post 3123110)
If I give Sceppy Leaf Blade over FB, a Skarmory or any steel type will come to wall it, over DPulse and Mence, Nite wall me. Detect won't fit in anywhere, Substitute works well with, SubSeed.

EDIT: Sceppy is Timid X_X.

What do you mean "legitimate" Phys Force?




I did some researching before I made this on possible Psycho Shifters, the best ones were-

1.Cresselia
2.Honchkrow
3.Togekiss

I find it near impossible to get a good, Bold/Calm/Relaxed/Sassy Natured Cress and Togekiss gets killed by anything that can outspeed it seeing as it has a burn and can only FlinchHax with T-Wave.

Togekiss gets killed by anything that outspeeds it? Make it bold, EV it correctly and that won't be an issue.

Medicham and Marowak will bruise, true but your team has no real physical attacker to lean on, pokes like Gyara, Metagross, Togekiss..etc, with defensif capabilities will eat you up.
I only suggest dropping one of them or Honchkrow. All very respectable but i think all three on one team is pushing it.
And why Flame Orb on Honchkrow anyways? Burn lowers attack...
I do like Expert Belt on Medicham though.

As for Sceptile, it wouldn't be a subseeder without substitute,s O i'm not sure why you brought that up, but if you send out Sceptile against Skarm and Focus Blast misses (which it is known to do) it's going to do some serious damage with Drill Peck.

Its pretty hard to make a poke cover everything with two moves, and without Leaf Blade, Water pokes with Ice Beam are going to have some fun. Swampert esspecially isn't going to feel to threatened.

ShadowAzelf November 27th, 2007 7:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Waffle-San (Post 3123160)
Togekiss gets killed by anything that outspeeds it? Make it bold, EV it correctly and that won't be an issue.

Medicham and Marowak will bruise, true but your team has no real physical attacker to lean on, pokes like Gyara, Metagross, Togekiss..etc, with defensif capabilities will eat you up.

Real attackers? They work practically the same...
*Ahem* I don't use pokes like that, Metagross gets killed by Skarmory, Togekiss is killed by anything that's immune to paralysis and Dos isn't my strong point when using.


I only suggest dropping one of them or Honchkrow. All very respectable but i think all three on one team is pushing it.
And why Flame Orb on Honchkrow anyways? Burn lowers attack...

Psycho Shift removes the burn and gives it to my opponent

I do like Expert Belt on Medicham though.

As for Sceptile, it wouldn't be a subseeder without substitute,s O i'm not sure why you brought that up, but if you send out Sceptile against Skarm and Focus Blast misses (which it is known to do) it's going to do some serious damage with Drill Peck.

Most Skarms setup, THEN attack, plus, I can subseed it x.x...

Its pretty hard to make a poke cover everything with two moves, and without Leaf Blade, Water pokes with Ice Beam are going to have some fun. Swampert esspecially isn't going to feel to threatened.

Leaf Storm and HP Ice'll go over DP and FB then

Read the bolded responses

Waffle-San November 27th, 2007 7:45 PM

Missed the Pshyco Shift thought it said Cut, and anyone that doesn't switch out there Skarm is going to attack a Sceptile. ANd you lsited Skarm as something that you'd use Focus Blast on right away.

Glad you reconsidered though.

I didn't suggest Gyrados, Metagross and Togekiss for you, I said pokes with higher defenses and atk/ Sp. Def and Sp. Atk are going to take down your Cham and Wak as they can also take a hit and in some cases they outspeed you, or have DD or stat raising Capabilities.

Think to yourself, I've got a hockey game to watch.

Samson November 27th, 2007 8:12 PM

shadow... you need some major strategical help.

why give honchkrow physical attacks + flame orb? you do know that cuts its attack in half, right? you'd be doing more damage with Dark Pulse even to a blissey. why give it whirlwind if it can't recover hp and burn is killing it anyway? you do know that flame orb will burn you AGAIN after you get rid of burn, right? if you want it to be able to take status and pass it on, then don't inflict status. cus then you'll just be switching burn for something else somewhere down the line. so do this -- get rid of flame orb, give it leftovers or maybe something like wacan/yache berry if you want it to contend against faster sweepers w/ SE hits. next, replace whirlwind for roost.

this way, you transform honchkrow into a status absorbing beast who can recover and attack all at the same time. you may want to consider suckerpunch over night slash. when it doesn't have thunderwave, it's at a complete loss for speed. plus, it'll be put in situations where it is too slow to perform that little final hit. besides, gengar is not afraid of honchkrow even if it can't be put to sleep. it'll just tbolt it.

also, because honchkrow will be status undertaker, forget Lum Berry on Bronzong. secondly, block is very BAD when anything that would switch out of him would do exactly that -- switch out. you'd be using block on what switches in. and if you're discussing moves like outrage -- using block on them is quite unnecessary. just come in, take the hit, and give them a few Gyro Balls in the pooper. replace block with reflect. you should really consider giving him wide lens and replacing psychic for charge beam. depending on honchkrow to take a ice fang/stone edge is silly. so yeah, put those sp atk evs into attack to give gyroball extra power. steel + electric has ok coverage (not as good as psychic + electric), but everything that walls gyro ball + charge beam are not going to like being put to sleep/reflected.

i wouldn't bother giving sceptile that many attacks. as someone mentioned, detect/protect would be a decent option while keeping leaf storm or energy ball for harder hits on bulky waters/grounds.

medicham... expert belt huh? =O i like it. i use a Bulk Up Medicham myself and i prefer much more than the obvious scarf set. although, i'd seriously replace bullet punch for something like substitute. it'll protect it from incoming damage/status. you may also want to consider ice punch so that pokes like hippow and donphan don't completely wall you. fighting+electric+ice covers everything, and with sub, focus punch might be an option =D

n3croart November 27th, 2007 8:41 PM

Why Heatran? Ground would own it.. badly. Okay, sceptile:

sceptile @ lum berry/leftovers
modest
- dragon claw
- thunderpunch
- leaf blade
- seismic toss

you might want to fit in leech seed if you want to as well.

Arsibiyez November 28th, 2007 7:55 AM

Lugialord, you've got to update yourself on the 4th gen game mechanics before you begin to rate 4th gen sets. You suggested Modest nature on a Sceptile with all Physical moves. Thunderpunch, Dragon Claw, and Leaf Blade were all made Physical in 4th Gen. You want the opposite nature (Adamant) if you're going to run a Sceptile with those attacks. Seismic Toss is lol on Sceptile, btw. It's unnecessary and gives Sceppy less function. SubSeeder is the way to go with him.

"Why Heatran" you say? Heatran gladly absorbs all incoming (predicted) Fire attacks on the switch, and it'll lol at the attacker when Flash Fire activates. Any incoming Ground Pokemon that attempt to counter it get downed by Hidden Power [Ice/Grass]. That's "why Heatran". =]

Dark Azelf November 28th, 2007 8:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Satsusen (Post 3123936)
"Why Heatran" you say? Heatran gladly absorbs all incoming (predicted) Fire attacks on the switch, and it'll lol at the attacker when Flash Fire activates. Any incoming Ground Pokemon that attempt to counter it get downed by Hidden Power [Ice/Grass]. That's "why Heatran". =]

Heatran ownz lol. Seriously if that thing gets a Flash Fire Boost it can 2hko Gyarados and Blissey with Fire Blast...which is scary to say the least.

In fact run Fire Blast for pure power, Flamethrower for accuracy or Lave Plume for burn hax, 30% chance is decent when things with EQ switch into it. Heat wave is unreliable to say the least 10 % burn chance and 90 % accuracy ??


Also how in the blue hell is that honchcrow a Gyarados counter ???

With impish nature on honchcrow and no speed evs you have 178 speed and Bulkydos has 223 speed as standard (so it can outrun Garchomp after a single dragon dance) so theres no way you'll be outspeeding it, Taunt wrecks psycho shift and you wont do much with Night Slash and Drill Peck, also are you aware that Gyarados more often than not now packs Stone Edge ? If anything run Bold and Hidden power Electric, however thats not gonna save you from Stone Edge.

Spice Curry November 28th, 2007 12:07 PM

Quote:

Marowak/Kenpachi =D @Thick Club
Jolly/Adamant Nature
EVs:6 HP/ 252 Atk/ 252 Spd
Ability: Rock Head

Earthquake
Fire Punch
Double Edge
Stone Edge
Loving the Bleach references in the names by the way =]
But why are you giving Marowak defense when its main (perhaps sole) purpose is to attack and kill? You need to focus EV investment more on attack and speed especially...so he may properly sweep. Which is why I'd go for Jolly Nature over Adamant (but its up to your preference in the end).
Stone Edge and Double Edge provide better coverage...I'm liking the Fire Punch too =]
(Even better, Marowak won't get any recoil from Double Edge because of the Rock Head ability, which rocks- no pun intended).

Anti November 28th, 2007 12:10 PM

Marowak is far too slow to be given speed EVs unless you plan on passing it speed. Otherwise run adamant with 252 Atk EVs, and the rest in Def and HP.

Sora_8920 November 28th, 2007 12:13 PM

Yes. Anti is right. And Jolly Nature is.. Lol..

Glisctillery November 28th, 2007 12:17 PM

you should attach choice scarf on your medicham, works better that way

take out bullet punch on it for a good stab move ( o wait.. it doesn't have close combat! )

ShadowAzelf November 28th, 2007 12:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Glisctillery (Post 3124244)
you should attach choice scarf on your medicham, works better that way

take out bullet punch on it for a good stab move ( o wait.. it doesn't have close combat! )

ScarfVile would kill Cham w/o Bullet Punch, those types should cover enough to where only Dark, Poison, Psychic, and Fire pokes are the only things the Expert Belt should benefit from.

Thunder Punch hits Dos and water pokes. Marowak isn't fast =.=... plus, Impish works since it'll have a 508 attack and a 320+ defense with my EV spread.

EDIT: Added a Slowbro.

Dark Azelf November 28th, 2007 1:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ShadowAzelf (Post 3124297)
ScarfVile would kill Cham w/o Bullet Punch, those types should cover enough to where only Dark, Poison, Psychic, and Fire pokes are the only things the Expert Belt should benefit from.

Thunder Punch hits Dos and water pokes. Marowak isn't fast =.=... plus, Impish works since it'll have a 508 attack and a 320+ defense with my EV spread.

EDIT: Added a Slowbro.

People never put a Scarf on Weavile, ever =/ its fast enough and has ice shard which wont ohko Medicham...... If its ever a Choice item on Weavile its a Choice Band.

I highly suggest you actually put a scarf on medicham and take out Bullet Punch and put in either Brick Break or Hi Jump Kick. Steel has terrible coverage and should only ever be used with STAB or on guts abusers like Hariyama........

Azonic November 28th, 2007 2:41 PM

Bronzong just can't have Psychic. You're filling it with moves that have horrible coverage. Psychic and Steel fall in 2nd and 3rd place in the list of bad attack types (after Poison moves). Gyro Ball is fine because it has decent power with a low speed, but Psychic makes me want to throw a mango at you. Stealth Rock is a fantastic alternative for it.

Samson November 28th, 2007 2:44 PM

this place is really losing its touch ._.

Anti November 28th, 2007 2:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Azonic (Post 3124483)
Bronzong just can't have Psychic. You're filling it with moves that have horrible coverage. Psychic and Steel fall in 2nd and 3rd place in the list of bad attack types (after Poison moves). Gyro Ball is fine because it has decent power with a low speed, but Psychic makes me want to throw a mango at you. Stealth Rock is a fantastic alternative for it.

Most Walls' priority isn't necessarily to have good coverage. It's to wall things so they have to switch. Bronzong is just fine without coverage. for example, curselax often is walled by steels, but that doesn't necessarily make me want to throw mangos ;)

EDIT:
Quote:

Originally Posted by Samson (Post 3124492)
this place is really losing its touch ._.

Sad but true :(

Sora_8920 November 28th, 2007 2:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Samson (Post 3124492)
this place is really losing its touch ._.

This Post is seriously, and most notably, epic win.

ShadowAzelf November 28th, 2007 3:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Itachi 2007 (Post 3124500)
This Post is seriously, and most notably, epic win.

X_X I greatly agree that quote X)...

Sora_8920 November 28th, 2007 3:37 PM

I do as well, that's why I said it was epic win.

Azonic November 28th, 2007 4:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anti-Pop Culture Warrior 13 (Post 3124497)
Most Walls' priority isn't necessarily to have good coverage. It's to wall things so they have to switch. Bronzong is just fine without coverage. for example, curselax often is walled by steels, but that doesn't necessarily make me want to throw mangos ;)

Thats true, but good coverage never hurts - it probably is the better way to go if the possibility is open.

And guys, lets try to stay on topic ._.;

Anti November 28th, 2007 4:12 PM

If the possiblity is open yes, but often times the best option is just to go for power and say "w/e" to coverage on walls. Even lots of tanks do without good coverage, though they usually need decent coverage, so yeah.

luke November 28th, 2007 4:14 PM

As Azonic said, please don't stray off-topic. Take it to PM or something.


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