![]() |
Well, I don't see you on wi-fi, and I'm waiting.
|
Quote:
I believe in testing things to prove something, or actually doing something. But when that method cannot determine one side of an argument correct or incorrect, you have to go to facts. IMO EDIT: Don't expect a consistant outcome since both pokemon are so varied all the time...or, weavile at least :P |
Well, I just took his Ice Punch, it almost 3HKOd me, and I 1HKOd his Weavile.
|
Hippowdon certainly walls a Jolly Weavile. It took it down in one EQ, after receiving about 1/3 damage from an Ice Punch. EQ leaves Weavile with 1 HP, Sand Stream finishes it off.
|
Quote:
Basically he means you'd believe theory (the calculations) over practical (actual happenings). And right there you contridicted yourself by saying you believe in practical. Which is saying Hippowdon can be a counter. (EDIT: as just proved by two posts above) ~desu Saba~ |
I figured I'd do that :P I really don't understand the meanings of those wrods since my vocab is bad, so maybe I should take a breather...lol
|
And finally, the point is proven.
|
Anybody have a purely attacking-based Weavile to pit against Hippowdon? Following the whole "different scenario" thing.
EDIT: Scratch that. |
Quote:
|
Finally, I think it's over. Ok, can we get back to coming up with more counters. I think we've spent a whole page on discussing this Hippowdon issue. (or more) I mean we still need to test it out on other Weavile's but until we find someone willing to face Ooka's Hippo, then we let this sleeping dog lie.
EDIT: And we're off again.... Ok, Anti, get the CB Weavile and Ooka battle countering. Outcome will be posted. Sorry I sound so demanding, I just want this over. ~desu Saba~ |
Well, we all know that Hippowdon can survive an Ice Punch with Flying colors and Tank by 1HKOing the Weavile no matter what set.
|
After flicking through Serebii, I'd say that Torkoal could also be a pretty decent Weavile counter.
EDIT: In light of what Kazaam has just said, can we not just leave this? |
Have you tried the CB one? Because that was wonderful for me in beating hippos.
|
Really? Give us a set to see...although the first response from some people will be "Torkoal is not a counter for Weavile" We need to give ideas a chance though.
Anti: Bad hippos. xD ~desu Saba~ |
Bad hippos? Man, I'm slow today O_o
Torkoal seems like it would work though. |
I have no idea. But most standard sets would not be able to put much of a dent in 140 base Def, and its typing makes one of its moves obselete. I'm guessing you'd have Gyro Ball on a Torkoal, to do some major damage (Base 20 Speed = win).
|
Anti, your picture of Skarm looks like it has a key attached to It's eye. Seriously. x.x Back on-topic: I would agree with Anti.
|
Gryo Ball Torkoal huh? Nice, I could try for a set in a sec. *sighs of relief* (finally back to no arguments)
Bad hippos = Bad Hippowdons. (well I can't necessarily say they were bad cuz I never fought one outside of Ooka's) ~desu Saba~ |
I think it's safe to say that a Gyro Ball Shuckle would smash a Weavile.
|
I've been told Shuckle's Defenses don't really matter because of it's not so great Health. So I don't think Shuckle would work too well. But maybe.
Torkoal@??? Relaxed~252 Defense/Attack Gyro Ball Earthquake Flamethrower Stealth Rock/Iron Defense EDIT: *thread gets shot* *thread dies* Wow, I guess argument is what kept this place alive. xD ~desu Saba~ |
Quote:
|
Quote:
|
Good point. I forgot to add Attack into the calculation. >_< Steelix and Forry would be better, then.
|
Quote:
Quote:
[email protected] 252 hp / 252 def / 6 sp.att Relaxed Nature - Will-o-wisp - Lava Plume / Overheat - Stealth Rock / Toxic / Yawn - Rapid Spin / Rest Will-o-wisp and Lava Plume/Overheat cripple weavile. Stealth Rock Prevent weavile from coming back in again. Yawn prevents any heatran switch ins. Toxic wears down bulky waters who will often come in on this. Rapid Spin helps its walling ability as it gets 25% of its health chipped off by stealth rock. Rest is also good if used in conjunction with a cleric. |
Should I add Torkoal to the list?
I got's an idea. How bout we see if a Butterfree could work. Bug>Dark! xD What Item should be given to the Torkoal though? ~desu Saba~ |
Quote:
|
Quote:
Butterfree was a joke. thus the XD *deletes previous post to stop double post* ~desu Saba~ |
Quote:
Leftovers on Torkoal. Always EDIT: I meant why would you pass up on Lava Plume for Gyro Ball ?? |
Butterfree=NO. Leftovers, me thinks.
|
Rhyperior counters Weaville easily.
|
Quote:
Give a set Guy. Should I add my set or Dark Azelf's for the Counter? ~desu saba~ |
[email protected]
Ability: Solid Rock Nature: Relaxed EV Spread: 252 HP/252 Def Moveset: -Swords Dance -Earthquake -Stone Edge -Megahorn With this set, he can so many hits from a max attack Weaville, it's amazing. |
Wow, I can't believe how annoyed this topic gets me. Hippowdon is NOT a Weavile counter.
If you're saying the calculations are a different thing then the game itself, then it only proves me that you have no idea what you're talking about. The calculations provide the most solid facts - the worst and best scenerio (minimum and maximum damage). AGAIN I'll repeat: * Damage calcs from jolly 252 Atk Weavile Ice Punch on impish Hippowdon 252 HP/Def: Life Orb: 47% - 55% Choice Band: 54% - 64% (guaranteed 2HKO) Swords Dance + Life Orb: 94% - 111% * Hippowdon can 1HKO Weavile if you invest Atk EV's in it. But then it means you lack Def or HP EV's, so it's a lot easier for Weavile to 2HKO it. * Testing starters Weavile VS Hippowdon does not apply to COUNTERING, since you're not switching Hippowdon on Weavile. Yeah, Hippowdon can stand a chance against Weavile if no switching in has occurred (especially if it's an offensive Hippo), and the calculations show this. But surviving with so little HP on Hippowdon won't get you anywhere, and is not considered countering. * Don't start arguing "but we're just looking for pokemon who stand a chance against Weavile", because relying on luck (IE minimal damage) shows how unprofessional you are. Not to mention the thread title is "Weavile Counter". * Hippowdon should NEVER switch on Weavile, not matter which set he runs (defensive or offensive). The same thing applies to Weavile, as it shouldn't switch on Hippowdon. |
Quote:
Quote:
Scenerio: Weavile user chooses Ice Punch Hippo user switches Hippo in Weavile hits Ice Punch -1/3 Hippo health Hippo chooses EQ Weavile chooses Ice Punch Weavile goes first -1/3 Hippo health Hippo hits EQ, OHKO. There a hippo is a counter. Quote:
Quote:
~desu Saba~ |
Quote:
You keep ignoring the calcs and choose to rely on someone's story. I provided calcs to remove all doubt, it's not my problem if you believe it or not, and I don't plan on beating a dead horse here. I will gladly take this to Shoddy and see if his Hippowdon wins against my Expert Belt / Life Orb / Choice Band Weavile, AFTER a switch in. |
I'll agree with Syaoran, not all Weavile's are sashed. some run Choice Band. IMO.
|
I'm not speaking sash...I actually don't really care about items that much...I sound like a stupid person I know, but I don't. Therefore I'm not assuming. So what exaclty does a CB do? And the Life Orb? (I know sorta, but not completely)
P.S. Should I make "The Official Counter Thread" right now? ~desu Saba~ |
Quote:
|
I know it's not a small ammount, depending on the base attack. So it's like an extra STAB?
Let me try some calculations. xD Although I won't be able to get defenses in there. Ice Punch: 75 * 1.5 = 112.5 * 1.5 = 168.75 * 2 = 337.5 So that's it's base attack not counting in Attack Stat and Defense Stat. How do you get solid lines in between things on posts? ~desu Saba~ |
Weavile is far too fragile to run CB'd in most cases. I'm guessing the ratio of FS Weavile to CB Weavile is 70% to 30%. (From my experience that is. Let's just put it this way, I've killed LOTS of Weavile.)
I'm not saying CB Weavile is bad, 'cause it isn't. It's just a bit risky. |
Why would you see so many Focus Sash Weavile now that almost everyone is running a sandstorm team? That ratio is questionable. CB Weavile is basically used for Ice Shard (killing dragons regardless of Choice Scarf or Dragon Dance) and Pursuit revenge killer (Gengar, Starmie, Azelf, Alakazam, Espeon and other weakened opponents).
Weavile lacks higher base power STAB moves, which is why it's not going to 1HKO many things, so that's why I don't think Focus Sash is so good on him. Many people will claim Focus Sash works great with Swords Dance, but Weavile is so predictable that it won't matter when they switch something to counter it. Gengar, unlike Weavile, is unpredictable and has 130 base Sp.Atk, learns Hypnosis, covers many types, has levitate to come in easily with the popular Earthquake - which is why I think he is a better candidate for Focus Sash. Weavile needs Life Orb / Expert Belt to deal the killing blows. |
Quote:
|
For the Shuckle you could just get in a trick room, use Power Swap, Hold on with a Focus Sash, then sweep.
|
Ok, before we go any further we need to fill out the rest of the ??? marks for the other pokemon and decide if Infernape is worth of being called a counter or not. (this is for the official thread)
~desu Saba~ |
Close Combat.. Infernape has 108.. And Weavile has 125. Well, WEavile has nothing that hurt Infernape, so yeah.. It's a Counter, but it has to switch in safely. So, no.
|
Wait, so it can't switch in safely? How come if Weavile has nothing to hurt it? If you could explain he's off the list.
~desu Saba~ |
Quote:
|
Infernape with Mach Punch is definitely a counter. It isn't dying anytime soon from Aerial Ace, and Aerial Ace isn't that common anyway. It's a safe switch in if Weavile doesn't have a Swords Dance under his belt and you don't suspect him using Aerial Ace on the switch. Mach Punch on any offensive set (special or physical) will kill Weavile.
|
So Counter or No Counter? I'm so confused because no one agrees on anything. XD
And by SD, do you mean like it's alreayd used it or will? If it has to use SD while Inferape is in, I don't think it'd matter cuz Mach Punch would KO it before it gets an actual attack in. Maybe if you use it differently...Impish and 252 EVs in defense? sounds like a waste, but Defense boosts like that can change survival plans. Believe me, it helps my Noctowl like crazy (not even 252 in defense) ~desu Saba~ |
Impish? Lol. It really can't wall for It's life. Not with 76 HP and bad Defenses. (71 in both).
|
Quote:
|
Never try to make a sweeper bulky. I lol'd at this guy who put Def EVs into his Electivire and it had lower def than my Salamence :/ Steelix is a very nice Weavile counter, if no one mentioned it.
|
I'm talking about Weavile killing, not walling. xD If it's defenses are higher than it might be able to switch in more safely. But then again it's kind of an impratical way to train an Infernape...so counter or not?
Bronzong. Could that work as a Gyro Baller counter? Or what? ~desu Saba~ |
Hmm. for Syaoran's reasoning, it kinda is. x.x
|
Ok, so what should the final moves be? Close Combat and....Bulk Up?
Oh and I suck with Items so fill all of those in. xD ~desu Saba~ |
Didn't Syaoran prove that Hippodon and Aerodactyl weren't counters to Weavile? Take them off.
Also, Infernape and Yanmega can't be counters either, take them off. |
The best Moveset for Inernape is this:
Infernape @ Focus Sash Trait: Blaze Hasty / Naive Nature - Close Combat - Flamethrower / Fire Blast - Stone Edge - Grass Knot / Thunderpunch. The moves in bold pose a threat to Weavile. |
Another Weavile Counter I have used is Magnezone. The strongest Attack Weavile can use on him, Brick Break, will not land a KO(barring critical hits). 'Zone can then launch a Luster Cannon. Assuming Weavile doesn't have a Focus Sash to protect him, this can work.
I've used Snorlax in the save manner, as Weavile cannot OHKO him. But again, it's pointless if he has the sash, as Snorlax can definitely be 2HKO'ed by a Weavile's Brick Break. I only use these two if Yanmega is not available, heh. |
Quote:
Yanmega has a scenario so yeah...wait...nevermind. I'll take it off. Hippowdon has not been proven to no be a counter. I just took us off the subject a bit so I could cool down. I'm sick of this subject being talked about and I sorta want to leave it alone for a bit, until we've finished the rest of the list. Infernape has been proven by Syaoran. He's on with Itachi's moveset. ~desu Saba~ |
Quote:
Quote:
* Snorlax, despite his high HP, doesn't take Brick Breaks very well, and again would be a risky switch in if Weavile Swords Danced or used Brick Break on the switch. |
ooops, didn't read Itachi's moveset very carefully. What should Mach replace? CC? And I agree that Magnezone wouldn't do to swell, along with Snorlax.
Plus we need an EV spread for Infernape. I'll put Leftovers as the default for item. ~desu Saba~ |
I don't want to bring it up again, but I thought we had agreed that Hippowdon was a counter? I've even done a battle, and won easilly...
|
What about Rhyperior? He owns Weaville.
|
alright, time to settle it.
Hippowdon - If the Weavile isn't SD'd, then Hippowdon is one of the quickest switches picked. Rhyperior - Solid Rock + Impish/Relaxed nature extremely effective; even SD'd Ice Punch might not be enough for 2HKO. Hitmontop - Intimidate cuts attack + Mach Punch. Infernape - Risky switch in, but I've seen an Infernape live through a Brick Break after Swords Danced. Mach Punch vital for counter. Forretress - Don't need to explain Skarmory - I've faced so many of these things I hate em... lol stops my Weavile in tracks until another Swords Dance poses too much threat, but Steel Wing'd or Roar'd by that time. To put it all down on the line, there are many counters to Weavile. There are counters to counters. Sometimes a strange switch in is enough to falter a strategy or leave the foe just in a daze. It takes a price to down a Weavile sometimes, but in other cases, it's just so dang easy. |
Quote:
|
Quote:
Quote:
Anyways, inferanpe really counters it. It can take both of its STAB attack like candy (despiter its poor defenses) and fight back with flamethrower and the likes...mach punch too :P Weavile never runs AA, ever. I just never see it. |
lol Kazaam, I forgot what I was thinking. I'll edit that to fix it.
|
| All times are GMT -8. The time now is 6:10 AM. |
![]()
© 2002 - 2018 The PokéCommunity™, pokecommunity.com.
Pokémon characters and images belong to The Pokémon Company International and Nintendo. This website is in no way affiliated with or endorsed by Nintendo, Creatures, GAMEFREAK, The Pokémon Company or The Pokémon Company International. We just love Pokémon.
All forum styles, their images (unless noted otherwise) and site designs are © 2002 - 2016 The PokéCommunity / PokéCommunity.com.
PokéCommunity™ is a trademark of The PokéCommunity. All rights reserved. Sponsor advertisements do not imply our endorsement of that product or service. User generated content remains the property of its creator.
Acknowledgements
Use of PokéCommunity Assets
vB Optimise by DragonByte Technologies Ltd © 2023.