The PokéCommunity Forums

The PokéCommunity Forums (https://www.pokecommunity.com/index.php)
-   Pokémon Strategies & Movesets (archive) (https://www.pokecommunity.com/forumdisplay.php?f=12)
-   -   Review 4.0 (Feliz Navidad) (https://www.pokecommunity.com/showthread.php?t=120647)

sims796 December 25th, 2007 8:39 AM

Review 4.0 (Feliz Navidad)
 
[email protected]
Nature:Adamant
Stone Edge
Waterfall
Dragon Dance
Taunt
EV:BULKYDOS. Yes, I'm Lazy.

[email protected] Sash***Sparks
Nature:Timid
T-bolt
Grass Knot
Focus Blast
Nasty Plot
EV:MAX SP.ATK/MAX SPD/6 SP.DEF
Special Sweeper. He abuses Focus Sash for powerful moves. For instance, if Specsmence causes me grief, I can last with Sash to hit hard.

[email protected]***Comet
Nature:Relaxed
Gyro Ball
EQ
Rapid Spin
Spikes/Stealth Rock
EV:MAX HP/88 ATK/164 DEF
Physical Wall. Also my Spinner, & Trap setter. Because he is my prime wall, Explosion is not an option.

[email protected]***Lumas
Nature:Calm
Psychic
Energy Ball
Reflect
T-wave/Magic Coat
EV:MAX HP/52 SP.ATK/200 SP.DEF
Special Wall. This was a tough trade-off from Noctowl. As much as I love Noctowl, it didn't help my bolt-beam weakness. Hell, she made it worse. Grumpig, however, has higher Sp.Defence, higher Sp.Attack, a more diverse movepool, & Thick Fat, which damn well helps me out. Unfortunately, he lacks what Noctowl has-a reliable healing move. Still, pro outweighs the con.

[email protected] Scarf***Yoshi
Nature:Naughty
EQ
Draco Meteor
Fire Blast
U-Turn
EV:252 ATK/120 SP.ATK/136 SPD
Mixed Sweeper (Scarf). This has been working wonders for me. It does my main job right here-dragon killing. I can finally stop playing that game of "Guess that Mence". I always guess Specs. I'm always wrong.

[email protected] Sludge***Petals
Nature:Calm
Energy Ball
Hidden Power [ICE]
Aromatherapy
Sleep Powder
EV:244 HP/90 SP.ATK/140 SP.DEF/30 DEF
Cleric. My team favorite! He is also a limited mixed wall. I discovered this when I accidentally gave him DEF EV's while training him in SP.DEF. His typing allows him much survivability. Although he has many weaknesses, not all are seen that often.


CHANGES
Added Tauros for Gya
Kept Gya
Made a Choice Scarf Flygon


So, with this change, how do I fare?


Merry Christmas, everyone!

Dark Azelf December 25th, 2007 9:22 AM

Swords Dance Chomp causes you problems, as does Gyarados, Heracross (As you have no recovery move on Forretress and it can only take a few Close Combats, and gets 2hko'd by Choice band variants), Scarf Heatran, DD Mence, Specs mence (Grumpig gets 2hko'd by Draco meteor), DD Nite, Mix Tyranitar w/Fire Blast/Crunch/EQ/Ice Beam. Id name one hell of alot more but i think you get it now lol

Gyarados takes most of those no problem, so i dont know why you dropped him. Its meant to be used defensively, hence the name "Bulky Dos" its purpose is to switch into most of those threats i named above Taunt or attack them directly, Dragon Dance is for late game sweeps and is almost an afterthought for early game. You really need it imo and tauros adds to your weakness.

I also dont get how Flygon counters Skarm Bliss.

252 ATT EV Earthquake from Naughty flygon

Defender HP: 714
Damage: 273 - 321
Damage: 38.24% - 44.96%

On 252 HP / 252 DEF Bold Blissey.

It does squat to it.


Ice Beam from 0 SP.ATT BOLD BLISSEY

Defender HP: 364
Damage: 294 - 345
Damage: 80.77% - 94.78%

On 0 HP / 0 SP.DEF Naughty Flygon.


Itll beat you before you beat it.


The only thing you beat with flygon is a 2hko on Skarm and Fire Blast, Flygon cant take bliss out at all.

You Might want to get something that takes BOTH out.

sims796 December 25th, 2007 10:14 AM

But I just can't hit hard enough, fast enough. Should I drop Flygon?

Dark Azelf December 25th, 2007 10:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sims796 (Post 3195963)
But I just can't hit hard enough, fast enough. Should I drop Flygon?

Well its up to you.

i ran some damage calcs in my previous post and Flygons Earthquake doesnt do much to Bliss at all, you said its a skarm bliss killer. Maybe Gyarados in that spot since that kinda stops SkarmBliss with Taunt.

Put rest on Forry aswell, it will work great with Aromatherapy and helps its walling-ness.

sims796 December 25th, 2007 11:01 AM

That goes without saying. Resting Forry of course.

Really? It has max ATK & STAB EQ. Not that much damage? Unbelievable.

Dark Azelf December 25th, 2007 11:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sims796 (Post 3196015)
That goes without saying. Resting Forry of course.

Really? It has max ATK & STAB EQ. Not that much damage? Unbelievable.

Damage: 38.24% - 44.96% from Flygons EQ, you can only 2hko it with Life Orb unfortunately and even that has a chance to fail to 2hko it =/

252 HP /252 DEF BOLD BLISSEY

Defender HP: 714
Damage: 355 - 417
Damage: 49.72% - 58.40%

From 252 Att ev Naughty Nature Flygons Life Orb'd EQ.




Rest on Forretress will help the thing alot IMo.

Kilala12 December 25th, 2007 11:15 AM

hey u guys, i'm trying to get all pokemon in the world and i'm only missing darkray and arcius do u know where can they be found?

sims796 December 25th, 2007 11:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kilala12 (Post 3196035)
hey u guys, i'm trying to get all pokemon in the world and i'm only missing darkray and arcius do u know where can they be found?

This is not the place to ask that. Go look for the right place.

Iceman3k December 25th, 2007 11:23 AM

You're making a lot of progress, I see.
Quote:

Originally Posted by sims796 (Post 3195885)
[email protected] Orb/Choice Band***(Random Energy Drink Name here)
Nature:Jolly
Stone Edge
Earthquake
Return(No, Anti, he can't learn Double Edge)
Pursuit
EV:MAX ATK/MAX SPD/6 HP
I decided to swap Gya for Tauros, as I need a heavy hitter. Gya needs to charge up to sweep. That takes time. I need someone to hit hard & fast. You can't get more diverse than Tauros.
Yeah, I know that's right
And even if Tauros can get Double-Edge (FRLG and E Tutors only), it's horrible on him because of Life Orb and harsh recoil rates.
This moveset is fine. Although, if you were to Life Orb, I'd personally run Zen Headbutt to bring anger to Heracross.


[email protected] Sash***Sparks
Nature:Timid
T-bolt
Grass Knot
Focus Blast
Nasty Plot
EV:MAX SP.ATK/MAX SPD/6 SP.DEF
Special Sweeper. He abuses Focus Sash for powerful moves. For instance, if Specsmence causes me grief, I can last with Sash to hit hard.
Okay.

[email protected]***Comet
Nature:Relaxed
Gyro Ball
Earthquake
Rapid Spin
Spikes
EV:MAX HP/88 ATK/164 DEF
Physical Wall. Also my Spinner, & Trap setter. Because he is my prime wall, Explosion is not an option.
Stick with Spikes.

[email protected]***Lumas
Nature:Calm
Psychic
Energy Ball
Reflect
T-wave/Magic Coat
EV:MAX HP/52 SP.ATK/200 SP.DEF
Special Wall. This was a tough trade-off from Noctowl. As much as I love Noctowl, it didn't help my bolt-beam weakness. Hell, she made it worse. Grumpig, however, has higher Sp.Defence, higher Sp.Attack, a more diverse movepool, & Thick Fat, which damn well helps me out. Unfortunately, he lacks what Noctowl has-a reliable healing move. Still, pro outweighs the con.
All righty.

[email protected] Plate***Yoshi
Nature:Naughty
Earthquake
Dragon Claw
Fire Blast
Substitute/U-Turn
EV:252 ATK/120 SP.ATK/136 SPD
Mixed Sweeper (Orb). What is the proper EV spread for this? I want it to be a SkarmBliss killer. But I lose the Speed my team craves with this set.
Draco Plate? o.O

[email protected] Sludge***Petals
Nature:Calm
Energy Ball
Hidden Power [ICE]
Aromatherapy
Sleep Powder
EV:244 HP/90 SP.ATK/140 SP.DEF/30 DEF
Cleric. My team favorite! He is also a limited mixed wall. I discovered this when I accidentally gave him DEF EV's while training him in SP.DEF. His typing allows him much survivability. Although he has many weaknesses, not all are seen that often.
Armored Power Flower.

CHANGES
Added Tauros for Gya
Switched Flygon's Item


So, with this change, how do I fare?


Merry Christmas, everyone!

AND A HOLLY JOLLY HORNSCHRISTMAS TO YE AS WELL =D

Just make sure Raichu stays firm on Mamoswine patrol. CurseLax can be a problem, though.

sims796 December 25th, 2007 11:27 AM

If what dark Azelf says is true,I lack a physical sweeper. So I thought Tauros. Then without Gya, I'm left wide open to those weaknesses. What to do?

Ah, draco Plate was because I couldn't think of anything better, what with Life Orb's recoil limiting my Substitute.

Anti December 25th, 2007 11:30 AM

For the record, Tauros gets double-edge as a tutor move in FR/LG :P And what is draco plate doing on flygon? :(

Also consider macho brace on grumpig and give it trick. Seriously, it WILL cripple sweepers who switch in. the best part is that they often have something like a choice item where trick can come in handy again :P

Samson December 25th, 2007 12:39 PM

yeah, w/o CB, Flygon doesn't hit hard enough VS standard blissey. life orb gives it a bit of an edge, but like mentioned, if it has ice beam, it's going to be doing some significant damage to it. if it's behind a sub, it'll be able to 2HKO Blissey, but that's regarding whether it's already in battle. not much people would switch blissey into a flygon anyway, mostly in fear that it has CB. so flygon could still work, but it'd be doing some severe damage to itself, and could only come in on earthquakes, which probably isn't going to happen when raichu stays in for the sash activation + NP.

also, Specsmence does not 2HKO Grumpig if it has leftovers. the max Draco Meteor can do is 67%, and that's before leftovers recovery. the second blow would max at 34%. if mence stays in for the second blow, it gets paralyzed and raeped later on anyway. sure, it almost KOs your special wall, but it will have not defeated it. maybe you should give grumpig rest so it can immediately restore its HP in that kind of a situation and benefit from aromatherapy. also, give it MAX HP, MAX SP DEF.

i have a prob with forretress. i wouldn't give it spikes since it doesn't last long enough to set enough and you don't have anyone to whirlwind/roar anyway. the only reason why you would use either spikes/stealth rock on this team is to prevent sashers from wreaking havoc and to punish choice item users. so without noctowl, spikes is useless, and stealth rock prevents your team from getting sweeped. gyro ball, i'm not a fan of it. it just personally never has come in handy for me. i'd suggest considering Light Screen so it survives non-STAB fire blasts + team support. or as someone mentioned, rest -- vileplume does have aromatherapy.

so yeah, if you're going to keep aromatherapy on vileplume, at least give your walls the ability to restore their hp, switch out and replenish their abilities.

Dark Azelf December 25th, 2007 12:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Samson (Post 3196136)
yeah, w/o CB, Flygon doesn't hit hard enough VS standard blissey. life orb gives it a bit of an edge, but like mentioned, if it has ice beam, it's going to be doing some significant damage to it. if it's behind a sub, it'll be able to 2HKO Blissey, but that's regarding whether it's already in battle. not much people would switch blissey into a flygon anyway, mostly in fear that it has CB. so flygon could still work, but it'd be doing some severe damage to itself, and could only come in on earthquakes, which probably isn't going to happen when raichu stays in for the sash activation + NP.

also, Specsmence does not 2HKO Grumpig if it has leftovers. the max Draco Meteor can do is 67%, and that's before leftovers recovery. the second blow would max at 34%. if mence stays in for the second blow, it gets paralyzed and raeped later on anyway. sure, it almost KOs your special wall, but it will have not defeated it. maybe you should give grumpig rest so it can immediately restore its HP in that kind of a situation and benefit from aromatherapy.

i have a prob with forretress. i wouldn't give it spikes since it doesn't last long enough to set enough and you don't have anyone to whirlwind/roar anyway. the only reason why you would use either spikes/stealth rock on this team is to prevent sashers from wreaking havoc and to punish choice item users. so without noctowl, spikes is useless, and stealth rock prevents your team from getting sweeped. gyro ball, i'm not a fan of it. it just personally never has come in handy for me. i'd suggest considering Light Screen so it survives non-STAB fire blasts + team support. or as someone mentioned, rest -- vileplume does have aromatherapy.

so yeah, if you're going to keep aromatherapy on vileplume, at least give your walls the ability to restore their hp, switch out and replenish their abilities.



What damage calculator did you use ? it might differ from one to the next.

I got from metal kids calc.

252 SP.ATT CHoice specs modest salamence

Defender HP: 364
Damage: 238 - 280
Damage: 65.38% - 76.92%

On 252 HP / 200 SP.DEF Calm Grumpig

Max with lefties is 70.92 % and


Defender HP: 364
Damage: 121 - 142
Damage: 33.24% - 39.01%

After a - 2 stage sp.att Drop Draco meteor

max = 33.01% with lefties


together = 103.93

Thats a 2hko.

The variable damage might differ as it will do less some times and more others, but its cutting it incredible close.

But yeah you need a recovery move on walls.

Samson December 25th, 2007 12:54 PM

i used metal kids as well, but i used Timid Nature. since when did Salamence run Modest? o.O

sims796 December 25th, 2007 1:01 PM

Well, Grumpig still has Magic Coat (Never used T-Wave yet) so should I give it Rest instead? Why do SO many people try to status Grumpig? They burn him, & Paralyze him. He doesn't suffer from an ATK drop, & he ain't outspeeding pokes.

As for Forry, what move can I lose for Rest? I'd like to keep Stealth Rock, as I hate Focus Sashers.

Flygon's been pretty effective on opposing Garchomp, seeing as how Dragon Claw puts it down pretty good. It also OHKO's Skarmory. But Blissey is my main problem.

Dark Azelf December 25th, 2007 1:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Samson (Post 3196149)
i used metal kids as well, but i used Timid Nature. since when did Salamence run Modest? o.O


Always, Most people like modest for the extra power, kinda the same why people like running adamant on the choice band variants as you dont need to outrun much really.Unless you want it to outrun max speed , + speed nature Staraptor, Regigigas, Jirachi, Electivire, Drapion, Gliscor (OU wise). All of which arnt particularly threatening to specs mence apart from vire and it looses alot of power with timid as we saw from those damage calcs.


Edit: Sims, id say loose EQ on Forry and give it a shed shell, EQ's main purpose is for Magnezone and fire types, Grumpig lols at fire moves and so does flygon.Shed Shell will allow you to escape from Zone and probopass.

sims796 December 27th, 2007 12:52 PM

Hey, I thought of something. What if I replace Forry with Donphan? It can be a spinner, & has more ATK than Forry-which is what I crave. Here's my idea:

[email protected]***
Nature:Impish
Ice Shard
EQ
Rapid Spin
Roar/Rest
EV:???

Iceman3k December 27th, 2007 12:56 PM

Which then means you'd have to keep Grumpig on heavy Ice Patrol.
As far as the EVs, 252 HP / 40 Atk / 216 Def is how I would run it. Or if you want, you can take 20 more from Def and add it to Attack for a little boost.

sims796 December 27th, 2007 12:59 PM

Oh, yeah. forgot the Ice. But it's nothing I can't handle. After all, Gya eats up physical Ice [Shard], & Grumpig takes out SP.Ice [Beam].

evilcheese December 27th, 2007 1:16 PM

ttar so kills raichu. i learned that the hard way with ddnite.

sims796 December 29th, 2007 4:23 PM

This Rest on Forry is working wonders! I love it over SR, although I still might get Donphan, as I like priority kills with Ice Shard, & Roaring seems great to me.


EDIT:Alright, that's it! I'm getting a Donphan. I REALLY want Roar back on my tream, what with these bastarn Pokemon setting up all the time.

But which is better on him? Roar or Rest? I love reusing my wall with Rest, but the chance of giving up one of my favorite things to do with Noctowl-which was Hazing- is too painful.

Samson December 29th, 2007 7:33 PM

go with roar then. besides, rest isn't the best for donphan. it's more of a defensive missionary than a recovering wall.

sims796 December 29th, 2007 7:38 PM

Ah, thanks.

I spoke with Aragornbird. He recommended this set that I am interested in.

[email protected] Scarf***Yoshi
Nature:Naughty
EV:252 ATK, 120 SP.ATK, 136 SPD
EQ
Draco Meteor
Fire Blast
U-Turn

I really like the way this set looks. Is it sound?

& Will switching Forry for Donny hurt my team? I mean, it doesn't lose much Defensive-wise. & My Grumpig & Gyarados can handle almost any Ice attack thrown, so I don't see a major downside in using Donphan.

Samson December 29th, 2007 7:47 PM

well it does make it easier for vile and vire (esp vile) to go for a sweep. explosion resist is always a benefit as well. and forretress isn't as afraid of ghosts as donphan.

but on the other side of it, ice shard is kewl =D give him a try and see how it works for ya. you should probably keep safe with the evs tho. max hp and def, that is.

and yah, the flygon set looks good. i run a very similar set, but it's not scarfed.

sims796 January 1st, 2008 3:59 PM

I made some edit's to my team. I think I did very good here, & I finally found a working Flygon set. I decided to keep Forry, however, I might run Dark Azelf's set, involving Shed Shell & Stealth Rock over EQ.

Why?

Well, I ran into a trainer who uses Magnezone. he had almost trapped Forry twice, & I escaped from close calls. The first time, I was switching Forry out at the same time he was switching Zone in. It was a lucky break on my part. The second time, I predicted that he would switch his Gyarados for Zone, so I used EQ.

But I can't rely on luck alone. If I lose EQ, I will have a harder time stopping Electrivire with just Gyro Ball alone, but losing Gyro Ball means a lose of Aerodactyl stopping. But I may lose EQ anyway.

Is Shed Shell a one-time use item?


All times are GMT -8. The time now is 6:04 AM.


Like our Facebook Page Follow us on Twitter © 2002 - 2018 The PokéCommunity™, pokecommunity.com.
Pokémon characters and images belong to The Pokémon Company International and Nintendo. This website is in no way affiliated with or endorsed by Nintendo, Creatures, GAMEFREAK, The Pokémon Company or The Pokémon Company International. We just love Pokémon.
All forum styles, their images (unless noted otherwise) and site designs are © 2002 - 2016 The PokéCommunity / PokéCommunity.com.
PokéCommunity™ is a trademark of The PokéCommunity. All rights reserved. Sponsor advertisements do not imply our endorsement of that product or service. User generated content remains the property of its creator.

Acknowledgements
Use of PokéCommunity Assets
vB Optimise by DragonByte Technologies Ltd © 2023.