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The Hero Without a Name June 13th, 2008 4:51 PM

Shoot... so that means I'll have to teach one Seismic Toss in FRLG and then transfer?

devilicious June 13th, 2008 5:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fabian the Fastman (Post 3670676)
Shoot... so that means I'll have to teach one Seismic Toss in FRLG and then transfer?

Precisely.

It's a hassle, really. Hopefully Platinum brings some move tutors back [especially the elemental punches].

The Hero Without a Name June 13th, 2008 5:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deviruchi (Post 3670742)
Precisely.

It's a hassle, really. Hopefully Platinum brings some move tutors back [especially the elemental punches].

I know, seriously! I nearly killed myself getting Ice Punch on one of my pokemon...

hothead June 13th, 2008 5:56 PM

I F i have a MAle Vensaur and a female Torterra and the vensaur has petal dance will the turtwig egg if it is a turtwig have the move peatal Dance

devilicious June 13th, 2008 6:03 PM

That would work on theory, but Petal Dance isn't one of Torterra's egg moves, so no.

hothead June 13th, 2008 6:07 PM

Thanks i just wanted to know because petal dance is a pretty good move so i jusst wanted to know

Matt-O June 14th, 2008 7:05 AM

No, Petal Dance is not a good move. Especially on Torterra. Torterra would be better off with Wood Hammar or Seed Bomb since its Att is way better than its SpA. Trust me, if you ever think to use Petal Dance on something, stop, and give that Pkmn Energy Ball instead. I have seriously beaten someone 6-0 because I got the chance to set up during a Petal Dance.

sims796 June 14th, 2008 7:39 AM

It's a reaal shame, too. Petal Dance is one of my favorite moves, wasted on a three turn move.

Xairmo June 14th, 2008 10:16 AM

How come Petal dance is considered a bad move because it sticks you in a three turn move; yet Outrage, which does essentially the same thing but is a different type move that has LESS coverage, is usually recommended? ._.

devilicious June 14th, 2008 10:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Akasuna no Sasori (Post 3672598)
How come Petal dance is considered a bad move because it sticks you in a three turn move; yet Outrage, which does essentially the same thing but is a different type move that has LESS coverage, is usually recommended? ._.

Because although Outrage has less coverage, it isn't resisted by many.
Not to mention it is only recommended to use Outrage with Garchomp and DDnite, two Pokémon who hit extremely hard.

Also, Grass has more coverage than Dragon, but seriously, almost every type resists Grass, and the Pokémon who could use it aren't as strong as Chomp and Nite- meaning you'll just be set-up fodder.

. June 14th, 2008 10:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Akasuna no Sasori (Post 3672598)
How come Petal dance is considered a bad move because it sticks you in a three turn move; yet Outrage, which does essentially the same thing but is a different type move that has LESS coverage, is usually recommended? ._.

What the hell kind of question is this? Petal Dance has a Base Power of 90 and is easily resisted by many threats. Outrage has a Base Power of 120 and even things that resist it can't take too much abuse from it.

Sorry if I came up a bit rude but there is NO comparing the two.

devilicious June 14th, 2008 10:28 AM

Oh, right. I also forgot the fact Outrage's BP is 120. :B

Just to inforce our points better, let's look at the top ten Pokémon from Shoddy's May Statistics:
# Garchomp (42139 usages)
# Gengar (35712 usages)
# Blissey (34844 usages)
# Gyarados (31594 usages)
# Tyranitar (31091 usages)
# Bronzong (29681 usages)
# Lucario (26596 usages)
# Heatran (24325 usages)
# Infernape (22927 usages)
# Salamence (22649 usages)

Now tell me, how many of them resist Grass? And Dragon? How many are weak to them?
You see now?

. June 14th, 2008 10:33 AM

Let's also remember coverage means nothing if the move itself isn't that great. Outrage is resisted by only one type of Pokemon; steel. Everything else is hit neautral, making it a MUCH stronger move.

The Hero Without a Name June 14th, 2008 11:41 AM

I know I ask hella questions but...

I got Pokerus on a lot of my Pokemon now. Now, if I stick, say, a Power Lens on one of my pokemon and beat a Gastly with it, will I gain 10 SPATK EV's or 6 SPATK EV's?

Ambient June 14th, 2008 12:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fabian the Fastman (Post 3672789)
I know I ask hella questions but...

I got Pokerus on a lot of my Pokemon now. Now, if I stick, say, a Power Lens on one of my pokemon and beat a Gastly with it, will I gain 10 SPATK EV's or 6 SPATK EV's?

The Pokerues doubling accounts after the power item, therefore you will get 10 SpAtk EVs.

The Hero Without a Name June 14th, 2008 12:10 PM

Oh... Now I get it. I was confused cause my Umbreon had some SPATK ev's even though I'd gotten 510 EV's on him before I fought anything else.

ABYAY June 14th, 2008 12:34 PM

Well hey, asking questions is a good thing. You get advice from the experts, and then you become an awesome trainer. That's a good n' simple deal right?

airconditioning June 15th, 2008 8:57 AM

How's this for an Azelf?

Azelf, Naive
x/2-3/31/30-31/x/30-31

The Attack is offputting, and the flawless Defense makes me laugh/ cry. Should I stick with it? It's the best I've gotten so far.

Also, if Serebii's calculator is correct, it has Hidden Power Fighting (BP 49). The odds of that are slim, and I can't get exact values unless I save, but it's worth noting. :/

Dark Azelf June 15th, 2008 8:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by airconditioning (Post 3674871)
How's this for an Azelf?

Azelf, Naive
x/2-3/31/30-31/x/30-31

The Attack is offputting, and the flawless Defense makes me laugh/ cry. Should I stick with it? It's the best I've gotten so far.

Also, if Serebii's calculator is correct, it has Hidden Power Fighting (BP 49). The odds of that are slim, and I can't get exact values unless I save, but it's worth noting. :/

Ouch bad attack =[

Which set are you using, the Nasty Plot set or Life Orb Mix ?

devilicious June 15th, 2008 9:08 AM

You can get exact values without saving by using Rare Candies and MetalKid's Calculator.

But, like Dark_Azelf said, it depends on the set you'd like to use.

airconditioning June 15th, 2008 9:14 AM

I haven't decided yet. Actually, I was planning on cloning this Azelf and using it for all the sets I can. Does it really need the Atk EVs, though? U-Turn is mainly used for getting the hell out of a bad situation, and Explosion will kill just about anything regardless (I think).

And yes, I could Candy it, but I really would rather keep it at level 50. I dunno why. :/

devilicious June 15th, 2008 9:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by airconditioning (Post 3674900)
I haven't decided yet. Actually, I was planning on cloning this Azelf and using it for all the sets I can. Does it really need the Atk EVs, though? U-Turn is mainly used for getting the hell out of a bad situation, and Explosion will kill just about anything regardless (I think).

And yes, I could Candy it, but I really would rather keep it at level 50. I dunno why. :/

Well, even with 3 Atk IVs, Explosion still kills Blissey 100% of the time.
But it's still important to check if those 30-31s are really 31s.

Dark Azelf June 15th, 2008 9:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by airconditioning (Post 3674900)
I haven't decided yet. Actually, I was planning on cloning this Azelf and using it for all the sets I can. Does it really need the Atk EVs, though? U-Turn is mainly used for getting the hell out of a bad situation, and Explosion will kill just about anything regardless (I think).

And yes, I could Candy it, but I really would rather keep it at level 50. I dunno why. :/

If your gonna use the Life orb mix set, i suggest the attack be a bit higher, about 20ish.

Its fine for the NP Set though.

sims796 June 15th, 2008 9:20 AM

U-Turn KO'es my Grumpig with one shot. With those IV's, I'll just Rest off the damage while you switch.

airconditioning June 15th, 2008 9:34 AM

Meh, I reset. It's better to just get a good Azelf now, so I don't have to bother with soft-resetting for another one later.

EDIT: Haha, I just got an Azelf with flawless Atk and SAtk (who Likes to thrash about, no less), but has ~21 Spe.

Actually, that's not very funny at all. D:

Gulpin June 15th, 2008 1:13 PM

I'm pretty sure that I've maxed out the EV's on my Growlithe, but the lady in the Sunnyshore Market (where you buy the PokeBall Seals) says that it needs to work a little harder? Is this becasue it is level 37, or because it is not Arcanine yet?

airconditioning June 15th, 2008 1:16 PM

You haven't maxed them out. You probably just lost count while training.

Gulpin June 15th, 2008 1:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by airconditioning (Post 3675568)
You haven't maxed them out. You probably just lost count while training.

Do I need to have it gain a level to get the game to recognise the EV's?

Haseo115 June 15th, 2008 1:36 PM

I probaly sound like a total n00b but what is IV and an does EV have something to do with evolution.

Gulpin June 15th, 2008 1:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Haseo115 (Post 3675641)
I probaly sound like a total n00b but what is IV and an does EV have something to do with evolution.

An IV is an Individual Value, and an EV makes your pokemon stronger go here for more info about IV's, and here for more info about EV's.

EDIT: I don't think that anyone saw this:
Do I need to have it gain a level to get the game to recognise the EV's?

airconditioning June 15th, 2008 1:46 PM

No. Once you have max EVs, you automatically get the ribbon. Like I said, you probably just lost count.

Azonic June 15th, 2008 4:17 PM

Another probability is that you have an EV spread with 508 EV Points. 508 is the maximum number of usable EV points, but it isn't the most you can get. Try battling a few more Pokemon to get 510.

Kirioroshi June 18th, 2008 12:50 AM

you can use 510 ev's you know..

252/68/180 spreads

anywho, for a bulkymence, what would a good item be?

life orb for more attack or leftovers for recovery.

and hypnosis or explosion for scarfed gar?

Aquilae June 18th, 2008 12:58 AM

Depends on the variant, Dragon Dance or the alternative, Draco Meteor/Flamethrower/Toxic/Roost.

For the second one it is definitely Leftovers.

If you choose to use Leftovers on the first one you would miss the KO on Heracross and Lucario without significant Attack EV investment (standard spread is 12 Attack). It is subjective although I think Life Orb is better.

I assume you are unable to obtain HP Ice? Well, Explosion wouldn't do much against Blissey and Lax (needs Life Orb to OHKO), but Hypnosis opens you up to a load threats. I would say Explosion provided you have done prior damage to Bliss/Lax.

The reason why 508 EVs are used instead of 510 is that the extra 2 EVs don't make a difference in stats, you would need 4 EVs for 1 point in that stat.

Kirioroshi June 18th, 2008 1:39 AM

i do have HP[Ice] on gengar
along with shadowball, thunderbolt, hypnosis. wondering if i should change hypnosis for explosion or not.

Aquilae June 18th, 2008 1:58 AM

Generally Focus Blast is better over Hypnosis for the better coverage. Explosion and Hypnosis are inferior options as outlined in my first post.

KantoJohto June 18th, 2008 7:16 AM

I finally learned about EV training, I still don't understand IV training though. But anyway I wanted to EV train my Mudkip from the start of the game but then I realize how can you ev train him properly when your forced to face trainers all over the Hoenn region? If Mudkip is my last resort I have to use him against Geodude or Nosepass and I only want to max his Sp.Atk, Atk, and HP

Anyone get what I mean?

BobberyJo June 18th, 2008 8:09 AM

First of all, you can only max out 2 stats.
Next, you can't EV train your Mudkip like that. Most people breed and Ev train after they've beaten the game.

KantoJohto June 18th, 2008 8:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BobberyJo (Post 3683102)
First of all, you can only max out 2 stats.
Next, you can't EV train your Mudkip like that. Most people breed and Ev train after they've beaten the game.

Oh I was afraid you would say that, reason is that I would have worked hard to get my team up in levels but they wouldn't work in competitive play because everyone else Pokemon would be properly trained.

airconditioning June 18th, 2008 8:41 AM

Eve if you could EV train your Pokemon properly doing the game, doing so would be stupid. Unless you spend months soft-resetting in front of Birch's suitcase, odds are that your Mudkip will have crappy IVs and a bad nature- no amount of EV training can fix that.

If you're dead set on EV training your starter, you can always use the EV reducing berries to reduce unwanted EVs.

Confuse June 18th, 2008 4:03 PM

This is a n00b question, but what is the best way to train for the Elite 4? And at what level is recommended to fight 'em?

Anti June 18th, 2008 8:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by seinyuuN/A (Post 3684145)
This is a n00b question, but what is the best way to train for the Elite 4? And at what level is recommended to fight 'em?

Just fight wild pokemon and level up to around level 60 and it usually isn't tough to take them out at all. In game opponents are anything but tough if you play to your opponent's weaknesses.

sims796 June 18th, 2008 8:39 PM

To be specific, the wild pokemon in the Vitory Road is best. Be sure to level to about 55 at the least. All you need to do is bring a buttload of items.

Now, as for my question, how is Tangrowth as a wall? Lack of reliable recovery hurts, but it still has Godly def & HP.

Anti June 18th, 2008 8:51 PM

Tangrowth is pretty freaking sturdy. Not only that, but it can fight back with some POWER. Its problem is that it lacks resistances outside of water/ground that are actually useful, and its recovery kinda stinks (especially with how popular Celebi is, who just blocks Leech Seed and sets up on Rest).

Generally Celebi is a better choice, but Tangrowth does get an instant sleep move, Knock Off, and a lot of other fun toys to try out. I like the thing personally, as it usually does quite well with its physical bulk. That and it's one of those 4th gen poekmon that actually looks really awesome =D

sims796 June 18th, 2008 8:54 PM

Mind if I ask you a few things via VM?

I ask this because my team covers Tangrowth's weakness pretty well. They take advantage of his weaknesses, usually for free switchins.

devilicious June 19th, 2008 3:43 PM

Then use Tangrowth. It's a very good Pokémon, in my opinion. And even more if you use something like Heatran to absorb the Fire-attacks that'll be directed at you.

I've used Sunny Day Tangrowth + Heatran, and it worked great. No one expects Tangrowth to sweep, but it has awesome attacking stats and can take a few hits- but the real trick is Sunny Day. It gives you awesome recovery with Morning Sun and invites Fire users, which Heatran just loves.

Supreme Dirt June 20th, 2008 7:27 AM

Where can I find a list of DP NU Pokemon?

Aquilae June 20th, 2008 7:32 AM

The most reliable source, Smogon, does not have an NU tier list currently as the UU metagame is still developing and there would be a lot of shifts in the metagame. Since NU is determined by usage statistics, you could base it off an arbitary cutoff point but I doubt that would work since ladder play somewhat discourages the usage of NU pokemon.

Supreme Dirt June 20th, 2008 8:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aquilae (Post 3688453)
The most reliable source, Smogon, does not have an NU tier list currently as the UU metagame is still developing and there would be a lot of shifts in the metagame. Since NU is determined by usage statistics, you could base it off an arbitary cutoff point but I doubt that would work since ladder play somewhat discourages the usage of NU pokemon.

I see. I was under the impression that NU Pokemon were in fact weaker than UU Pokemon, instead of simply being UU Pokemon that aren't used much, like BL with OU.
Alrighty, thanks.

The Hero Without a Name June 20th, 2008 10:07 AM

Okay, I'm back, with another set of questions...

1) Are Wise Glasses and Muscle Band ever used on Pokemon?
2) What do you think of Power Herb (that item that lets you skip a turn charging; i.e. solarbeam w/o Sunny Day)
3) Do people use the protection berries (i.e. Yache Berry, Occa Berry, Payapa Berry, etc.)?

sims796 June 20th, 2008 10:14 AM

1.Barely. Muscle Band I have never seen, and Wise Glasses, I believe, is outclasses by Expert Belt.
2.No. Use it once, now what? You now have no item, and every move must be charged.
3.Actually, yes. Used right, they can catch your opponent off guard. Used mainly by pokes who has an easily exploitable weakness, and can use the turn to charge up (Gyarados & Dragon Dance attracts Thunderbolt like a magnet. Garchonp & Swords Dance always has either Ice Beam, Ice Fang, Ice Shard, or Ice Punch launched at him).

The Hero Without a Name June 20th, 2008 12:09 PM

Ah, okay. I understand now. Thanks!

Chonlel48 June 20th, 2008 12:25 PM

I got a question.

Does Skarmory double as a physical wall and spiker? I feel noobish asking this, but I need to know before I begin the process of IV breeding, etc. of a pre-planned physical wall.

Thanks in advance.

Dark Azelf June 20th, 2008 12:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chonlel48 (Post 3688917)
I got a question.

Does Skarmory double as a physical wall and spiker? I feel noobish asking this, but I need to know before I begin the process of IV breeding, etc. of a pre-planned physical wall.

Thanks in advance.

Yes, it does. It is also a PHazer.

. June 20th, 2008 10:49 PM

I'm confused at how stat ups work. From what I know, there are three ways to stat up:

1) One stage uppers (DDance, etc...)
2) Two stage uppers (NP, etc...)
3) Choice Items (Scarf, etc...)

Now, say Tyranitar activates Sand Stream, it gains a 50% boost to it's Special Defense, meaning it's base 100 SpD will be raised to 150, correct? That means Choice Items increase their respected stat up by 50%, right? So, Choice Scarf on Tyranitar would bring his base 61 speed to around 92?

Then comes Dragon Dance. DDance increases his Speed and Attack by one stage...What does that count for? 1.1? 1.2?

And then comes Nasty Plot, does it increase SpA 1.5? or does it simply double it? I need some help guys.

hothead June 20th, 2008 10:59 PM

Can some one give me a good move set for a (Aipom's evolve cant spell it) and do not worry about what is on the rest of my team i am just training pokemon so give me any sort of move set

Thank you anyone who helps

ABYAY June 20th, 2008 11:03 PM

I don't compare stat uppers as raising the base stat. I simply do this. Let's say Tyranitar with 244 Speed uses Dragon Dance. This increases attack and speed stats by 1 stage. Thus, you get this.

244x1.5 (Dragon Dance increases a stat by 1.5.) 244 x 1.5 = 366. Tyranitar now has 366 speed.

Say Porygon-Z with 405 sp.atk uses Nasty Plot.

405x2 (Nasty Plot increases by 2 stages.) 405 x 2 = 810. Pory-Z now has 810 sp.atk.

Choice Items increase by 1 stage, or 1.5. Below, I give a spectrum of stat boosts and decreases.
-6 - 25% (2/8)
-5 - 28% (2/7)
-4 - 33% (2/6)
-3 - 40% (2/5)
-2 - 50% (2/4)
-1 - 66% (2/3)
0 - 100% (2/2)
1 - 150% (3/2)
2 - 200% (4/2)
3 - 250% (5/2)
4 - 300% (6/2)
5 - 350% (7/2)
6 - 400% (8/2)

The fractions you can ignore, but they give a basis on how the stats are given. Now...is that all you need to know?

And Hothead, suggest in Strategies/Movesets area please.

. June 20th, 2008 11:20 PM

So Dragon Dance essentially gives Tyranitar the same boost as CB?

devilicious June 20th, 2008 11:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by King Tyranitar (Post 3690438)
So Dragon Dance essentially gives Tyranitar the same boost as CB?

Yes. A DD is basically a Choice Scarf and Band in one move. And without the Choice.

. June 20th, 2008 11:29 PM

So why do people even use Choice Items? D:

ABYAY June 20th, 2008 11:46 PM

Good question, simple answer: Choice items give an INSTANT boost without a turn to set up. This means that you won't eat a Surf before you get hit, or in Gengar's case, won't eat a Weavile Pursuit before you Focus Blast/Hypnosis it.

Sometimes things like Weavile don't have time to get a Swords Dance in, so pop on a Choice Band and smack somethin hard.

devilicious June 20th, 2008 11:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by King Tyranitar (Post 3690458)
So why do people even use Choice Items? D:

With Dragon Dance you need one turn to setup. And that turn can be crucial or just very rare. Not to mention you lose your boosts upon switching.

With Choice items, you also get one more moveslot for coverage, which is important on some Pokémon. And not all creatures get Dragon Dance and etc.

hothead June 21st, 2008 12:26 AM

NO one answer my question so im just going to ask again any one got a good move set for aipom Evolves

Hadim Sinan Pasha June 21st, 2008 2:51 AM

Hothead, if you'd like an answer, please ask your question in Strategies/Movesets. I was wondering if a Hail Team would work better than a Sandstorm team if the Pokemon were given the correct items?

Aquilae June 21st, 2008 3:32 AM

The type of weather does not necessarily decide the "strength" of the team, especially not when Hail and Sandstorm are two completely different weathers and employ different strategies.

To be honest, any team with Tyranitar/Hippowdon is a Sandstorm team, so you should elaborate more on it.

Dark Azelf June 21st, 2008 3:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hothead (Post 3690582)
NO one answer my question so im just going to ask again any one got a good move set for aipom Evolves


[email protected] Band
252 ATT / 252 SPEED / 6 HP
Jolly nature
Trait : Technician
- Brick break / Focus Punch
- Payback
- Return / Double Hit
- U-Turn / Fake Out / Fire Punch



Quote:

Originally Posted by ~Celebi~ (Post 3690793)
Hothead, if you'd like an answer, please ask your question in Strategies/Movesets. I was wondering if a Hail Team would work better than a Sandstorm team if the Pokemon were given the correct items?


Wait....what ?


I think ya mean, "Request a Team/Individual moveset" thread ? =p

Yeah, post stuff like that there next time please.

Core-3X June 21st, 2008 4:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ~Celebi~ (Post 3690793)
Hothead, if you'd like an answer, please ask your question in Strategies/Movesets. I was wondering if a Hail Team would work better than a Sandstorm team if the Pokemon were given the correct items?

Both teams can be very annoying, but Sandstormteams are much more common then Hail teams, and that is the advantage. Also, sandstorm is resisted by may pokemon. The advantage to Sandstormteams is, that there is a large choice of pokemon you use, by a Hail team, there is a very limited choice (if you don't use 'normal' pokemon with leftovers). Personally, I like more Sandstormteams, because I have made one by myself.

deem_deem June 21st, 2008 8:12 AM

EV training fails, help
 
Is it me or does EV training not work?
I i have a shieldon lv.20 that i was trying to EV train. It has the Pokerus and i gave it one of the braces you buy at the battle tower. I put it first in my party and i was only fighting the same pokemon over and over until i gained a level. And you know what i got...only 3...what the hek is up with that? I saved before i did the training, so i restarted and used a rare candy, and i got up the exact same stat up points. My brother tried EV training to and it doesn't work..is there something we're doing wrong?

Forci Stikane June 21st, 2008 8:15 AM

It's just you.

You don't get all of the stat boost at once. The bonus points show up over time, and you do not see the full effect until the Pokemon is level 100 (or in a LV. 100 battle on Wi-Fi).

XDLugia June 21st, 2008 8:17 AM

you can't expect a pokemon to get +10 from leveling up. Ev training is something that is gradual.

Alter Ego June 21st, 2008 8:23 AM

It's like Icha says. =O Even with maximal EVs in a stat, the total bonus from those EVs is 63 points, meaning an extra point to the stat at roughly two out of three level ups. The only reason you're getting that +3 is the catch-up effect (I.e. the game pooling in the gradual increases that would have been applied for the remaining 20 levels the pokémon has under its belt); just be patient and you should see the results in due time.

deem_deem June 21st, 2008 8:28 AM

so how does it work? i really don't undertand. Using rare candies makes me gain the same points as if i were to just train normally.

On youtube some guy was explaining how it works and he got 10+ ever time he leveled up. (he leveled up 5 times) I battled like alot of geodudes plus i got the pokerus and the brace yet it makes no difference.

I need a fully explanation on how it works. i read on serebii and watched the guy do it on youtube. It just doesn't work, unless i'm interpreting it wrong

Forci Stikane June 21st, 2008 8:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by deem_deem (Post 3691521)
so how does it work? i really don't undertand. Using rare candies makes me gain the same points as if i were to just train normally.

Because using a Rare Candy makes stat increases ignore any EVs you obtained while at that level.

Quote:

Originally Posted by deem_deem (Post 3691521)
On youtube some guy was explaining how it works and he got 10+ ever time he leveled up. (he leveled up 5 times) I battled like alot of geodudes plus i got the pokerus and the brace yet it makes no difference.

I need a fully explanation on how it works. i read on serebii and watched the guy do it on youtube. It just doesn't work, unless i'm interpreting it wrong

You are almost never going to see large boosts like that when EV training. As everybody posting here has already told you, the increases from basic EV training are gradual, meaning you will only get slight boosts in most levels. The exception is when the Pokemon you are training is already at a high level, so you get a large boost to compensate for it (as I am betting happened in that video).

airconditioning June 21st, 2008 10:08 AM

How's this for an Azelf?

Azelf, Naive
HP: 4 - 5
Att: 24 - 25
Def: 30 - 31
SpA: 31
SpD: 14 - 15
Speed: 28 - 29

The Speed isn't flawless, but I could always pack a few more EVs (the standard runs 220 Spe- there's room for error). The Attack isn't perfect, but it should be good enough, given the only attacks he'll use are U-Turn or Explosion. The Def is very nice, though.

Clayton-King-of-the-Sea June 21st, 2008 10:41 AM

It depends on numerous factors how EV training goes

1 - Does your nature support the stat your trying to boost?
If it doesn't the stat won't go up much no matter what.

2 - Is it a stat the pokemon is good in?
You say it is a Shieldon which means if you aren't training it in defence and special defence EVs it won't gain much any way

3 - What form is it?
Shieldon is pre-evolved so its stats are lower than Bastiodons so thus it won't go up as much. Don't toss aside all 510EVs until it evolves.

4 - Does the band support the stat?
Each band will only support only stat. Make sure it is the one matching the stat your trying to boost.

It all depends on who you use, what stat you pick, what EVs the target support, and the item your pokemon holds. I had a Regigigas level up once and gain 37 points in attack because of EVs, the proper band, a good nature, pokerus, and spamming Bibarrels and Machokes.

It takes time to adjust things properly and even then you may not get much out of it. The base and max stat of a pokemon is a key factor to how much you'll benefit from the EVs. For Shieldon try out the Oreberg Mines and Iron Mountain.

devilicious June 21st, 2008 11:04 AM

That's pretty good Azelf, airconditioning.

I'm sure you'll get pretty far with it- for both battles and negotiation.

. June 21st, 2008 3:37 PM

What makes a better lead generally? DDTar or CBTar?

Archer June 21st, 2008 8:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by King Tyranitar (Post 3692830)
What makes a better lead generally? DDTar or CBTar?

Well, DDtar needs a turn to set up, making it better as a Late-game Sweeper. CB-Tar is a better lead.

Aquilae June 21st, 2008 8:51 PM

IMO both are quite horrible leads as you don't have an advantage on anything in particular except Azelf in the case of CBtar. Either you could use FreakTar (LO MixTar) or MixScarfTar, both which function better as leads.

. June 21st, 2008 8:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aquilae (Post 3693601)
IMO both are quite horrible leads as you don't have an advantage on anything in particular except Azelf in the case of CBtar. Either you could use FreakTar (LO MixTar) or MixScarfTar, both which function better as leads.

CBTar makes an awesome lead. Stone Edge basically massacares Salamence and especially Gyarados leaders. Bronzong who use SR get 2HKO'd by Crunch

I guess CBTar is a better lead. Thanks Archer.

devilicious June 21st, 2008 8:53 PM

If I ever used a Tyranitar [god forbid please forgive me for ever thinking of this], and wanted to lead with it, I'd certainly go with Boah.

Aquilae June 21st, 2008 8:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by King Tyranitar (Post 3693608)
CBTar makes an awesome lead. Stone Edge basically massacares Salamence and especially Gyarados leaders. Bronzong who use SR get 2HKO'd by Crunch

I guess CBTar is a better lead. Thanks Archer.

While they switch out to <insert wall here> or in Mence's case, outspeed and OHKO. Tar also gets hit by Intimidate. Bronzong leads most likely Hypnosis/Gyro Ball meaning Tyranitar would be either hurting or crippled.

. June 21st, 2008 8:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deviruchi (Post 3693609)
If I ever used a Tyranitar [god forbid please forgive me for ever thinking of this], and wanted to lead with it, I'd certainly go with Boah.

Boah is slow as a molassas, meaning too many things can outspeed and KO it.

@Aquilae

From my uses, Salamence's Intimidate doesn't stop it from being either OHKO'd or KO'd (depending on what set they use) Gyarados gets massacred no question.

devilicious June 21st, 2008 8:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by King Tyranitar (Post 3693612)
Boah is slow as a molassas, meaning too many things can outspeed and KO it.

No one leads with hard hitting stuff nowadays. And no one expects a lead Boah either, meaning you can get your Sub up (remember you're still faster than Zong). In theory, it should work okay. :3

. June 21st, 2008 8:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deviruchi (Post 3693614)
No one leads with hard hitting stuff nowadays. And no one expects a lead Boah either, meaning you can get your Sub up (remember you're still faster than Zong). In theory, it should work okay. :3

This actually makes sense...With a sub up, it's guaranteed to KO something.

Archer June 21st, 2008 9:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by King Tyranitar (Post 3693619)
This actually makes sense...With a sub up, it's guaranteed to KO something.

Thing is, Boah was designed as a wall breaker. having it weakened in the first turn and hurting a supporter/sweeper, means it will have less of a chance to do its job.

As for no-one running strong leads, What about Specs Mence?

devilicious June 21st, 2008 9:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Archer (Post 3693643)
As for no-one running strong leads, What about Specs Mence?

Does Specsence Hydro Pump OHKO Tyranitar in Sandstorm?
And not many Salamence like to take a Stone Edge or Ice Beam from Tar.

. June 21st, 2008 9:27 PM

I don't think so. Tar has base 150 SpD in SS.

Aquilae June 21st, 2008 9:46 PM

Tar doesn't have base 150 SpD in Sandstorm. Mixmence will OHKO regardless and Tyranitar is quite frankly, easily walled during the earlygame, even moreso if it is Intimidated.

SpecsMence certainly would not OHKO Tyranitar, assuming it stays in Tar is crippled for the rest of the battle. I would switch out of Tyranitar.

. June 21st, 2008 9:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aquilae (Post 3693702)
Tar doesn't have base 150 SpD in Sandstorm. Mixmence will OHKO regardless and Tyranitar is quite frankly, easily walled during the earlygame, even moreso if it is Intimidated.

SpecsMence certainly would not OHKO Tyranitar, assuming it stays in Tar is crippled for the rest of the battle. I would switch out of Tyranitar.

Tyranitar has Base 100 SpD, and in the Sandstorm, he gains a 50% boost.

kohei June 21st, 2008 9:53 PM

Sorry to butt in, but I've left (English) Pokemon battling for sometime, and finally came back.
Tyraniboah is intriguing, and I've looked up on what the build is like.

So is it safe for me to assume that it's a Sub-Punch T-Tar that has special attack moves to break walls which it usually cannot?

devilicious June 21st, 2008 9:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by King Tyranitar (Post 3693707)
Tyranitar has Base 100 SpD, and in the Sandstorm, he gains a 50% boost.

It's actually a 50% to the stat, not to the Base Stat.
So you'd have 448 Sp. Def points with a Neutral nature and 0 EVs. You can't really address it to a base stat, because the boost is variable.

Anyway, I see Tyranitar vs Salamence as a prediction match. If Mence is Specs, you win with Ice Beam. If it's Mixed, you lose.

edit;
@kohei: That's basically it.

Aquilae June 21st, 2008 9:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by King Tyranitar (Post 3693707)
Tyranitar has Base 100 SpD, and in the Sandstorm, he gains a 50% boost.

It is not the same. Base stats do not increase. Stats do.

@kohei

Boah is basically what you said. SubPunch is to remove Bliss while the other moves down walls and stuff.

I would like to know more about the Japanese metagame. I heard Lanturn is high OU there, which is surprising =.=

kohei June 21st, 2008 10:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aquilae (Post 3693723)
I would like to know more about the Japanese metagame. I heard Lanturn is high OU there, which is surprising =.=

@Deviruchi and Aquilae
Thanks, now I know!

I was surprised at Lanturn being used a lot here too. However it's a great Special Water/Ice/Electric wall.
Bliss is hated (with a passion) amongst most players here, and many people decide against using it (「自重する」).
So I guess alternative spec. walls start becoming popular.

devilicious June 21st, 2008 10:10 PM

自重するwwww

I wish we English players had that kind of hatred towards Blissey too. Even though we all hate it, most of us use it anyway. [I don't, though ♥]

Is Garchomp the over-overused Pokémon over there, too?

kohei June 21st, 2008 10:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deviruchi (Post 3693747)
自重するwwww

Also KY, "tatemae"/"honne", "wa o midasu" etc.
It's all rooted deep within our society and culture, so it may seem strange to foreign people.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deviruchi (Post 3693747)
Is Garchomp the over-overused Pokémon over there, too?

Yep.
As far as I know, it is less popular then back in 2006, but is still considered a 厨ポケ ("chuu-Poke", a degrading term used to point out "EZ-to-use Pokemanz for kidz").

Archer June 21st, 2008 10:32 PM

The Japanese Metagame sounds interesting. Guys I only brought up Specsmence in support of using High-Offense Leads.

4gotten kazama June 21st, 2008 11:08 PM

Deoxys Nature
 
Jus wondering whats the preferred nature of Deoxys? I want to kno Before I recieve mine? Can anybody help? Thanx

Horyo June 21st, 2008 11:11 PM

I don't think you can choose...

I got a careful nature Deoxys.

4gotten kazama June 21st, 2008 11:34 PM

You can choose just reset the game without saving once u have recieved it, If Its not the nature u want and try again...


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