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-   -   Blissey - Physical wall? (https://www.pokecommunity.com/showthread.php?t=121978)

GeneralGuy January 4th, 2008 6:22 PM

Blissey - Physical wall?
 
Blissey's maximum defense stat is 130. Shuckle's HP is nearly double that, and it's NEVER used simply because of it's terrible HP stat.

One time, I took out a Blissey in one hit with Cross Chop. I'm assuming it was Bold nature and had 252 Def since competitive players are the ones who usually run Blissey.

Quite honestly, I don't think Blissey was meant to withstand physical attacks, and attempts to cover up that weakness is worthless.

Dark Azelf January 4th, 2008 6:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GeneralGuy (Post 3224989)
Blissey's maximum defense stat is 130. Shuckle's HP is nearly double that, and it's NEVER used simply because of it's terrible HP stat.

One time, I took out a Blissey in one hit with Cross Chop. I'm assuming it was Bold nature and had 252 Def since competitive players are the ones who usually run Blissey.

Quite honestly, I don't think Blissey was meant to withstand physical attacks, and attempts to cover up that weakness is worthless.

If you max Blisseys Defense it allows it to take a Physical hit, it CAN survive Close Combats from MIxape and Cross Chops from vire. If you dont invest DEF evs you die to tackle. It takes physical hits well if you dont ask too much of it. IT allows it to dual wall to some extent.

Blissey needs no sp.def as it already has that sky high hp.

We know it isnt meant to withstand physical hits hence the name special wall but what happens if its your last pokemon and your up against a Garchomp. Now with max hp and def you can survive an EQ and Ice Beam it, without max def you die.


Shuckle on the other hand has more weaknesses than bliss, piss poor hp which makes his high defenses moot.

sims796 January 4th, 2008 6:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dark_Azelf (Post 3225051)
Shuckle on the other hand has more weaknesses than bliss, piss poor hp which makes his high defenses moot.

And a weakness to Seismec Toss. What kind of Pokemon has that weakness, anyway?

flamehaze94 January 4th, 2008 6:56 PM

Just to answer that question:





CBTar


Max Def Blissey is a must, no way to avoid it, it has to be done. Most pokemon try to model there attacks on max def Blissey, and without max Def Blissey is just as worthless as a physical walling Rampardos. Though Bold isn't necessary, because Calm Blissey's are indefinately always better.

And the guys who said Blissey doesn't need Calm or SpDef EVs, I'm going over the intrawebz to slap you right now.

sims796 January 4th, 2008 7:01 PM

At least Tar can fight back. What is Shuckle gonnado? Wiggle? "He's gonna wiggle me to death? Shuckle sucks.

Despite the [controversial] views on Blissey, we can all agree that she Needs the points in defence. There is no avoiding that.

ABYAY January 4th, 2008 10:10 PM

Agreed; After doing a tid bit of research, a Bold Blissey takes 40 less damage from a Cross Chop from E-vire than one with Calm nature. At first I thought a tiny 11 defense difference wouldn't mean so much... guess I was proven wrong by my own research.

Shadowthinker January 4th, 2008 11:54 PM

Well Blissey is useless all right my Staraptor could use Close Combat and OKO it i wouldn't even bother getting a Blissey.

Ársa January 5th, 2008 2:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shadowthinker (Post 3225522)
Well Blissey is useless all right my Staraptor could use Close Combat and OKO it i wouldn't even bother getting a Blissey.

Pardon.... o.0;

Min = 496.96
Max = 583.99
Avg = 540.48

714 - 584 = 130 HP

~M51

GeneralGuy January 5th, 2008 6:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shadowthinker (Post 3225522)
Well Blissey is useless all right my Staraptor could use Close Combat and OKO it i wouldn't even bother getting a Blissey.

Blissey is not useless. She is the greatest special wall in the game, so it isn't good to say that she's worthless.

Hell, she can take down Mewtwo, and that's not even in her tier.

シーツー January 5th, 2008 6:51 AM

I use Blissey and Shuckle and I would call them both as one of my best Pokes.

Blissey is absolutely cool and almost invincible as long as you don't have fight/ghost types as your opponent. Everyone who calls it useless is wrong oO

And I can't understand why so many people complain about Shuckle. Ok, it has low HP stats but if you play with a good moveset and use it in the right way, it'll be an uuber! (Ok that was too much, I guess XD)
You can own almost every Pokemon with it, that's why I think it's so powerful^^

(Hey, isn't it a Bliss thread? So why did I talk the most things about Shuckle? XD)

Kirioroshi January 5th, 2008 7:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shadowthinker (Post 3225522)
Well Blissey is useless all right my Staraptor could use Close Combat and OKO it i wouldn't even bother getting a Blissey.


Maybe a really crap Blissey with 0 Iv's in Def.
If blissey is crap then why do people use it?

El Gofre January 5th, 2008 7:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tamoto (Post 3226327)
I use Blissey and Shuckle and I would call them both as one of my best Pokes.

Blissey is absolutely cool and almost invincible as long as you don't have fight/ghost types as your opponent. Everyone who calls it useless is wrong oO
Seriously, no-one calls blissey useless. If anything its argued he's the best wall in the game.

And I can't understand why so many people complain about Shuckle. Ok, it has low HP stats
Low? Base 20 is about as low as it gets!
but if you play with a good moveset
Name me a good set. The really isnt one
and use it in the right way, it'll be an uuber! (Ok that was too much, I guess XD)

You can own almost every Pokemon with it, that's why I think it's so powerful^^
But it really isnt

(Hey, isn't it a Bliss thread? So why did I talk the most things about Shuckle? XD)

On subject, Bold+252 EVs is the way to go with blissey, simply because if you do get caught out and get hit by a physical move, Id rather have the chance of surviving and living to fight another day later on

Kirioroshi January 5th, 2008 7:18 AM

'Seriously, no-one calls blissey useless. If anything its argued She's the best wall in the game.'

Gofre Don't you mean she?

El Gofre January 5th, 2008 7:22 AM

oops yep sorry, typo :)
Fillerrr

シーツー January 5th, 2008 9:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gofre (Post 3226375)
...

Have you ever played with a Shuckle or why are you that sure that it's so horrible? (I know, you're not the only one who thinks so).
Anyway, my Shuckle knows Toxic, Rest, Protect and Stealth Rock and i swear you can beat almost every Poke with this. (Except of course Steel Pokes and Water types are bad opponents, too for it.)

ABYAY January 5th, 2008 9:55 AM

Yeah, my friend's Shuckle in a sandstorm team runs Wrap, Toxic, Protect, and used-to-be Double Team before joining here (me and him always battled for fun, and I hated it so much!) I think he's changing that last move to Stealth Rock or something.

One serious weakness though... Shuckle is insta-prey to Metagross's Meteor Mash when holding a Life Orb, and its attack IVs are horrid! (like... 5. lol gotta rebreed that thing.) However, against special sweepers like Starmie, it takes so long to wear it down with Surf.

I will admit one thing; without Double Team, Shuckle isn't the best pokemon out there for tanking. However, with Knock Off as secondary support, it can prove useful. (A side question; does Knock Off permanently render the pokemon's item useless?

sims796 January 5th, 2008 9:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tamoto (Post 3226768)
Have you ever played with a Shuckle or why are you that sure that it's so horrible? (I know, you're not the only one who thinks so).
Anyway, my Shuckle knows Toxic, Rest, Protect and Stealth Rock and i swear you can beat almost every Poke with this. (Except of course Steel Pokes and Water types are bad opponents, too for it.)

Are you kidding? That is absolutely awful. You can beat every poke? Where the hell did you get that piece of info? That is the worst claim that I have EVER heard.Shuckle is the worst. You proved that all it can do is stall for time. All we have to do is bust through his defense. Yes. It has poor HP. If you need TOXIC AS THE ONLY MEANS TO DO DAMAGE, THERE IS A PROBLEM.

We have undisputed fact as to why it is so horrible. You just proved us right.

GeneralGuy January 5th, 2008 10:17 AM

This is not a Shuckle thread.

Shuckle @ Ganlon Berry
Ability: Gluttony
Nature: Relaxed
EV Spread: 252 HP / 252 SDef
Moveset:
- Power Trick
- Earthquake
- Stone Edge
- Gyro Ball

This set works excellent in battles after Trick Room and Sandstorm are in effect. Sandstorm prevents Focus Sash from working, and Shuckle can Power Swap and proceed to kill off the entire opposing team.

sims796 January 5th, 2008 10:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GeneralGuy (Post 3226847)
This is not a Shuckle thread.

Shuckle @ Ganlon Berry
Ability: Gluttony
Nature: Relaxed
EV Spread: 252 HP / 252 SDef
Moveset:
- Power Trick
- Earthquake
- Stone Edge
- Gyro Ball

This set works excellent in battles after Trick Room and Sandstorm are in effect. Sandstorm prevents Focus Sash from working, and Shuckle can Power Swap and proceed to kill off the entire opposing team.

To talk about the best, the worst must be bought up. In this case, Blissey & Shuckle.

As for the set...not so much. The turn you use Power Swap, you will get hit right there & then. As Syoran said, it hasn't the time.

The reason everyone is speaking about Shuckle is because you started the comparison in the first post. I don't know where the sets came from.

GeneralGuy January 5th, 2008 10:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sims796 (Post 3226854)
To talk about the best, the worst must be bought up. In this case, Blissey & Shuckle.

As for the set...not so much. The turn you use Power Swap, you will get hit right there & then. As Syoran said, it hasn't the time.

Shuckle will usually survive the hit however.

sims796 January 5th, 2008 10:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GeneralGuy (Post 3226862)
Shuckle will usually survive the hit however.

Most barely. If even. With pitiful HP, & now pitiful defense, I highly doubt it. Being walled by Forry only adds to that.

GeneralGuy January 5th, 2008 10:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sims796 (Post 3226868)
Most barely. If even. With pitiful HP, & now pitiful defense, I highly doubt it. Being walled by Forry only adds to that.

Well, Shuckle could survive the hit, use Power Swap, and your other pokemon could then use Trick Room.

sims796 January 5th, 2008 10:29 AM

Therefore losing Power Swap, when you switch for that other poke to use Trick Room. You now have to switch back to Shuckle, reuse Power Swap, & get KOed the first turn you use it by Earthquake.


This is all showing why Blissey is better than Shuckle. Shuckle needs to hope & pray it can do something good. While Blissey can enjoy her throne.

GeneralGuy January 5th, 2008 10:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sims796 (Post 3226883)
Therefore losing Power Swap, when you switch for that other poke to use Trick Room. You now have to switch back to Shuckle, reuse Power Swap, & get KOed the first turn you use it by Earthquake.

I'm talking about double battles.

sims796 January 5th, 2008 10:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GeneralGuy (Post 3226888)
I'm talking about double battles.

Not many people even bother with double battles. That's not a true blue defensive arguement, & not even comparable to what Blissey can do. If Shuckle needs a partner to survive, there is a problem. Especially when both opponents will gang up on the poor fool.


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