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-   -   Physical and Special Walls (https://www.pokecommunity.com/showthread.php?t=122337)

Vettore January 7th, 2008 4:46 AM

Physical and Special Walls
 
I was thinking about using a Skarmory as a physical wall, and a Blissey as a special wall. Or my Lugia as both, but I don't really want to use him. :P

I was wondering, are there any decent pokemon that could act as a respective wall that you could recomend? :)

AluminumKnight January 7th, 2008 6:29 AM

There are many, many walls out there. Probably about 10 good enough for OU play for physical and 10 for special, with only a few that can do both (remember that if you use Lugia, you're going to be competing in uber play). My advice would be to go to a pokemon site that has some sort of searchable pokedex (I recommend Marriland or serebii), and use their advanced search to search for pokemon with high def. or special def. and hp. Anything that has high stats in those can wall.

Waker of Chaos January 7th, 2008 6:41 AM

Brongzong, Spiritomb, Dusknoir, Skarmory, Blissey, Weezing, Forretress, and Cresselia, just to name a few.

Ambient January 7th, 2008 7:22 AM

Well, you could always use Shuckle, since that has the (nearly, maybe even the) highest Defence and Special Defence stats (can be up to 600 each), but can't attack very well.

shanecdavis January 7th, 2008 8:23 AM

Not only can it not attack well, but its HP is the third lowest in the game. The fact that its HP is so low actually negates its high Def/SDef. Please don't waste time on Shuckle. It is a worthless piece of crap. I did a write-up a year or so ago about how easily that thing is defeated. Here are some suggestions for walls and Pokes that can imitate walls:

PHYSICAL
Skarmory
Umbreon
Cloyster
Steelix
Forretress
Suicune
Dusclops
Donphan

SPECIAL
Blissey
Snorlax
Umbreon
Claydol
Dusclops
Suicune
Milotic

Don't ask me about DP Pokes unless you want me to go off on a diatribe about how worthless that generation is.

Shiraishi January 7th, 2008 1:25 PM

Cresselia is a monster Sp. wall. I prefer it over Blissey as I need a Gyarados counter.

shedinjask January 7th, 2008 5:49 PM

Shuckle is ok if you know how to use him.

Umbreon and Snorlax aren't really viable walls anymore. In fact, Umbreon is worse than Shuckle because he can barely wall anything and has a terrible movepool. At least Shuckle can Encore/Toxic/SR. Snorlax is 2HKO'd by so many common threats now it's not even funny.

GeneralGuy January 7th, 2008 5:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shedinjask (Post 3233694)
Shuckle is ok if you know how to use him.

Umbreon and Snorlax aren't really viable walls anymore. In fact, Umbreon is worse than Shuckle because he can barely wall anything and has a terrible movepool. At least Shuckle can Encore/Toxic/SR. Snorlax is 2HKO'd by so many common threats now it's not even funny.

That is 100% bullcrap. Shuckle can't wall Magikarps, while Umbreon makes a great BPer and excellent special wall with a diverse movepool.

PhoenixFlare January 7th, 2008 5:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shedinjask (Post 3233694)
Shuckle is ok if you know how to use him.

Umbreon and Snorlax aren't really viable walls anymore. In fact, Umbreon is worse than Shuckle because he can barely wall anything and has a terrible movepool. At least Shuckle can Encore/Toxic/SR. Snorlax is 2HKO'd by so many common threats now it's not even funny.

Obviously you can't use them welk keep a ghost backup for Lax and Umbreon for fighting attacks.

Waker of Chaos January 7th, 2008 5:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shanecdavis (Post 3232078)
Don't ask me about DP Pokes unless you want me to go off on a diatribe about how worthless that generation is.

If this generation is so worthless, why do you bother to play Pokémon at all? If it weren't for Diamond and Pearl, we wouldn't have Darkrai, we wouldn't have the GTS, we wouldn't have Pokémon on the Nintendo WFC, and we most certainly wouldn't have great Pokémon like Electivire and Infernape. The attack catagorys also make much more sense this way.

As for walls, here's a good one.

Dusknoir @ Leftovers; Pressure
Careful; 252 HP, 76 Defense, 180 Special Defense
Shadow Sneak
Fire Punch
Pain Split
Will-O-Wisp

Eat your heart out, shanecdavis. :badsmile:

shedinjask January 7th, 2008 5:59 PM

Umbreon gets ruined by Taunt. Shuckle doesn't. Umbreon dies to common things such as Specsmence, Scarfchomp, and Gengar. Shuckle ruins them in return. Umbreon is fine if you're going for a Mean Look pass, but I'd use Shuckle in a Sandstorm team.

Also, Snorlax likes to stay in a lot, not run at the sight of Gengar for fear of Focus Blast. Which can predict your ghost and KO it.

PhoenixFlare January 7th, 2008 6:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shedinjask (Post 3233765)
Umbreon gets ruined by Taunt. Shuckle doesn't. Umbreon dies to common things such as Specsmence, Scarfchomp, and Gengar. Shuckle ruins them in return. Umbreon is fine if you're going for a Mean Look pass, but I'd use Shuckle in a Sandstorm team.

Also, Snorlax likes to stay in a lot, not run at the sight of Gengar for fear of Focus Blast. Which can predict your ghost and KO it.

No a Focus blast Gengar 2HKOs Lax why in your right mind would you stay in.

Umbreon is a SPECIAL WALL how can it possible be beaten by Specsmence thats a special sweeper. Gengar cannot kill Umbreon unless it hits a crit twice without missing which is pretty impossible. (Of course this means Umbreon must have Wish)

shedinjask January 7th, 2008 6:08 PM

Umbreon can't repeatedly switch into Specsmence, nor can it do anything in return. Mixmence gives it even more of a problem. Gengar will run Specs/Focus Blast, which will 2HKO Umbreon.

EDIT: I was advocating against using Lax as a special wall due to it kinda failing as one this gen. I used Gengar as an example.

Faceless* January 7th, 2008 6:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PhoenixFlare (Post 3233779)
No a Focus blast Gengar 2HKOs Lax why in your right mind would you stay in.

Umbreon is a SPECIAL WALL how can it possible be beaten by Specsmence thats a special sweeper. Gengar cannot kill Umbreon unless it hits a crit twice without missing which is pretty impossible. (Of course this means Umbreon must have Wish)

...I just HAD to cross out that comment thank you

Specsmence >>>> Umbreon, Phoenix, ever heard of Draco Meteor = 140 Power + Specs + STAB + 350 Sp. ATK???

Gengar uses Hypnosis on Umbreon and switches into a sweeper

PhoenixFlare January 7th, 2008 6:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Name (Post 3233815)
...I just HAD to cross out that comment thank you

Specsmence >>>> Umbreon, Phoenix, ever heard of Draco Meteor = 140 Power + Specs + STAB + 350 Sp. ATK???

Gengar uses Hypnosis on Umbreon and switches into a sweeper

Wait its attack is 350......... I misread sorry I saw 250.

Sorry 'bout that.

shedinjask January 7th, 2008 6:16 PM

Shuckle, on the other hand, takes 26.64% - 31.15% from max SAttk Timid Specsgar's Shadow Ball in a Sandstorm, with no SDef EVs and a neutral nature, and will Knock Off the Specs. It would be 3HKO'd by Specsmence Draco Meteor if the SAttk drops didn't happen. It beats a friggin Deoxys-FR one on one.

PhoenixFlare January 7th, 2008 6:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shedinjask (Post 3233842)
Shuckle, on the other hand, takes 26.64% - 31.15% from max SAttk Timid Specsgar's Shadow Ball in a Sandstorm, with no SDef EVs and a neutral nature, and will Knock Off the Specs.

Actually Gengar Hypnosis' anything it can without specs which is common too and how does Shuckle fight back? Toxic won't work, Wrap won't work, It,s attack is too pitiful for anything else.

Name why did you cross that out it does 2HKO him.

Life orb does
56.83% - 66.82%

Specs does
65.51% - 77.22%

shedinjask January 7th, 2008 6:30 PM

Shuckle fights back with Knock Off. Specsgar without the Specs is much less of a threat. Then it Rests off the damage, or maybe gets some Wish support, and retreats to ruin something else later.

It's a support Pokemon.

PhoenixFlare January 7th, 2008 6:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shedinjask (Post 3233897)
Shuckle fights back with Knock Off. Specsgar without the Specs is much less of a threat. Then it Rests off the damage, or maybe gets some Wish support, and retreats to ruin something else later.

It's a support Pokemon.

It can't fight back doing 5.36% - 6.13%.

Look I'm tired of arguing how about we just say we have different views on Shuckle and let it go.

shedinjask January 7th, 2008 6:54 PM

I already told you it fights back by getting rid of Specs. But ok no more fighting.

Ársa January 7th, 2008 7:08 PM

oh no... o.0;

Another Skarm-Bliss team in the making then.... :P

Because these are (so!!!!!!!11!!!1) common, I would suggest against using both Skarm and Blissey. I've found that Togekiss is a good Special Wall, and with it's Para-Flinching status, it is great for offensive play also. :)

Regards,

~M51

sims796 January 7th, 2008 7:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GeneralGuy (Post 3233722)
That is 100% bullcrap. Shuckle can't wall Magikarps, while Umbreon makes a great BPer and excellent special wall with a diverse movepool.

Wait, how does Shuckle NOT get ruined by Taunt? Knock Off? Having a poke Blissey weak is NOTHING to brag about. I mean, BLISSEY beats that thing easily, with Seismec Toss, while all Shuck can do is Knock off, doing 1% damage.

I completely agree with this statement. It makes no sense to state something so ludicros. There is a reason everyone & their grandmother uses Snorlax, & why Shuckle is highly disregarded. Plus, Umbreon may have fallen from grace, but is a hell of a lot more useable than Shuckle. All I see it for is Gya bait. One Taunt, it's over. It has no moves to fight back, other than Knock off. Wow.

Shiraishi January 7th, 2008 7:24 PM

Umbreon is ok, my friend used Umbreon/Weezing. He did ok until I bred a Medicham just for him.. Curse-payback worked nicely on beating the stuffing outta the evil Focus Blasters.

shedinjask January 9th, 2008 1:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sims796 (Post 3234078)
Wait, how does Shuckle NOT get ruined by Taunt? Knock Off? Having a poke Blissey weak is NOTHING to brag about. I mean, BLISSEY beats that thing easily, with Seismec Toss, while all Shuck can do is Knock off, doing 1% damage.

I completely agree with this statement. It makes no sense to state something so ludicros. There is a reason everyone & their grandmother uses Snorlax, & why Shuckle is highly disregarded. Plus, Umbreon may have fallen from grace, but is a hell of a lot more useable than Shuckle. All I see it for is Gya bait. One Taunt, it's over. It has no moves to fight back, other than Knock off. Wow.

Knock Off is a lot better than you give it credit for. Walls (Blisssey) cannot function as effectively without their Leftovers, especially in the Sandstorm you'll most likely be running with it. I have seen a total of one Snorlax on Shoddy. Gyara doesn't like switching into Knock Off. Bulky Gyara needs his Leftovers. Umbreon, on the other hand, can do absolutely nothing to sweepers that Shuckle can't but Charm and has a lot less defensive power. Umbreon can't Encore statups or Knock Off Life Orb. I'd use Shuckle over Umbreon any day tbh.

luke January 9th, 2008 1:34 PM

This thread is skating on THIN ICE everyone. Watch what you say or there will be infractions issued.


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