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Tauros (♂) @ Choice Band
Ability: Intimidate EVs: 6 HP/252 Atk/252 Spd Jolly nature (+Spd, -SAtk) - Return - Stone Edge - Earthquake - Pursuit --- Dusknoir (♂) @ Leftovers Ability: Pressure EVs: 252 HP/78 Def/180 SDef Careful nature (+SDef, -SAtk) - Shadow Sneak - Thunderpunch - Will-o-wisp - Pain Split --- Moltres @ Life Orb Ability: Pressure EVs: 124 HP/204 Spd/182 SAtk Modest nature (+SAtk, -Atk) - Fire Blast - Air Slash - Substitute - Roost --- Jirachi @ Leftovers Ability: Serene Grace EVs: 240 HP/76 Def/56 SAtk/136 SDef Bold nature (+Def, -Atk) - Psychic - Grass Knot - U-turn - Wish --- Donphan (♀) @ Leftovers Ability: Sturdy EVs: 252 HP/42 Atk/216 Def Impish nature (+Def, -SAtk) - Earthquake - Ice Shard - Stealth Rock - Rapid Spin --- Vaporeon (♀) @ Leftovers Ability: Water Absorb EVs: 188 HP/252 Def/36 SAtk/34 SDef Bold nature (+Def, -Atk) - Surf - Ice Beam - Substitute - Baton Pass --- |
Sorry, I'm not too experienced with most of those pokes there.
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I'm not to good with Rating teams, but here it goes:
i think its a good team ^^ |
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Anyways it looks good, although Maybe a mixed sweeper i see you getting walled.. Also when passing those huge Vaporeon subs, you may want something that can stat up behind them such as Nasty Plot, Dragon Dance up etc. |
Becos you and I both are too awesome to have our teams rated, even my RMTs are ignored D=
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Yeah, looking good. Although 2 legends in one team intimidates me. |
Roost and Life Orb are on the same set to quickly heal any recoil damage when I have the chance. But I will consider Expert Belt. If I can find a Moltres with HP Ice without breaking my DS, I'll throw it in there over Safeguard.
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Ah, I thought you were still using that Shoddy Program :o
Never mind HP Ice then. |
well i have a problem with moltres. it's really your only special attacker and doesn't have enough coverage nor speed to deem itself a sweeper. you surely don't need me to point out its bad typing, but that is a hindrance nonetheless. vaporeon hits decently with its attacks, but here you have a dilemma where your special sweepers are walled by bulky waters. something as simple as a swampert would really take its toll on this team.
so yeah, i'd really consider that. either you give moltres more support to be the sweeper that it wish it could be, or you drop it for something that requires less support. |
I've really wanted to use Moltres though. So who do you suggest I take out for a Pokemon to support Moltres?
I just noticed how physical my team is. I usually have a problem with a team that's too special-based. |
i do understand what you mean. special attackers get walled a whole lot easier than physical ones.you could make Moltres work, but you really need to give it another purpose than expecting it to outspeed certain pokemon, do enough damage to outlive damage and try to roost the damage off. it just won't happen.
i suggest you go Modest nature, give it substitute over Safeguard, WoW over roost or air slash and Fire Blast over flamethrower. give it wide lens, although it's not necessary. i just prefer it for power and accuracy. give it some more HP, but feel free to give it speed to outrun speed variants of Tyranitar, Gyarados and other threats who will almost always switch into moltres. 180-204 should be enough to do this. the basic idea is that it comes in threatening pokes with its STAB attacks, sets a sub on the switch, and burns anything that doesn't like it or attacks anything that won't like being hit with STAB Fire Blast. if you give roost instead of air slash, this gives it the ability to stall while your opponent's HP continues to lower due to burn. if you give it air slash, you get a free hit on pokes like starmie who have a easy time or infernape who thinks fighting fire with fire is a good idea. |
Duh. Why didn't I think of going with Substitute. Durdurdur.
Moltres @ Leftovers / Wide Lens Nature: Modest Trait: Pressure EV Spread: 108 HP / 234 SPATK / 96 SPD Fire Blast Air Slash / Roost Will o Wisp Substitute That Speed will outrun Pokemon with 204 Speed and lower, even if Moltres has 0 IV in Speed. Unless you meant invest 180-204 EVs in Speed. If it has a 31 IV in Speed, it will run up to 240. O.O Those HP EVs bring it up to 335 (0 IV) to 366 (31 IV). And those Special Attack EVs will bring it to 344 (0 IVs) to 378 (31 IV). And how about a CMing Jirachi that could receive Substitutes from Vaporeon: Jirachi @ Leftovers Ability: Serene Grace EVs: 162 HP/200 Def/148 SAtk Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk) Psychic Thunder Wish Calm Mind |
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Electivire @ Expert Belt Lonely/Mild | 180 Atk / 252 Spd / 76 SAtk ~HP Grass ~TBolt ~Ice Punch ~EQ/CrossChop. |
Ugh. Hidden Power breeding. How dreadful. Isn't there another version of Mixedvire?
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I assume it's for Swampert killing. I don't believe Flamethrower offers any additional coverage, cept to Forretress & Bronzong, of course.
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Electivire @ Life Orb Trait: Motor Drive EVs: 80Atk / 176Spd / 252SpAtk Mild nature(+SpAtk, -Def) - Thunderbolt - HP [Grass] - Ice Punch / Flamethower - Cross Chop Much better. On Moltres, why Sub? Vappy's already passing Subs, and Roost is almost better in almost all situations. Wide Lens is horrible, on anything for that matter. If you insist on WoW, fine, but I'd recommend HP [Grass]. Jirachi wants Light Screen and ~76SpDef EVs and Sassy nature (note: Sassy is better than Calm on a Wish/U-Turner) to effectively counter SpecsMence. Impish @ 252HP / 180Def / 76SpDef are best for Dusknoir. There is nothing that stops MixPert from rampaging through this entire team. 0HKOs~2HKOs everything, and Toxics Vaporeon. The game's then gg. |
A couple of things I'll say, and I don't feel like MultiQuoting.
Regarding Moltres, you probably wouldn't want to run Substitute on it, seeing as Stealth Rock screws it already. Worst thing that could happen is that you could Sub, something else could come in and pull a Stealth Rock (Prime Example: Hippowdon), then later on, Moltres gets hurt extremely and you lose privileges of it. But since I can't think of any better ideas, I guess we'll stick with that. And to the best of my knowledge, Swampert is never ran with Toxic, lol. As far as countering Swampert, how about giving Jir Grass Knot? Just an odd thought of mine. |
I've always had more success with Careful rather than Impish on Dusknoir. And Dusknoir can burn Mixpert and stall it. I'm lost on Jirachi. I don't know if I want to use the Wishpasser or use it as a back up for Moltres.
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oops, when i said 180-204, i meant spd evs. those were only necessary if you wanted to outrun threats like gyara who gets a kick out getting a free DD. moltres can always burn, but the risk of WoW missing and gyara using taunt is still there. so yeah, the speed isn't all that necessary, at least in my opinion.
and yes, sub isn't the best thing to be doing to something with a ridiculous SR weak, but that's the point. sub allows it to stay in battle and do worthwhile damage while it IS in battle rather having it surrender and be forced to take a hit for death because of that SR weakness. that's why i find sub sets on fire type pokemon to be really good this gen. subpunch charizard is very nice. and it is true, your team does have trouble with swampert. maybe you should try a -atk or -spd nature to go along with grass knot/charge beam/u-turn/wish. losing power on u-turn stinks, but i suppose the importance of u-turn was always for wish. charge beam is just a minimal addition for the sp atk boost. tbolt/tbolt/psychic/zen hbutt easily make room. |
Tauros (♂) @ Choice Band
Ability: Intimidate EVs: 6 HP/252 Atk/252 Spd Jolly nature (+Spd, -SAtk) - Return - Stone Edge - Earthquake - Pursuit --- Dusknoir (♂) @ Leftovers Ability: Pressure EVs: 252 HP/78 Def/180 SDef Careful nature (+SDef, -SAtk) - Shadow Sneak - Thunderpunch - Will-o-wisp - Pain Split --- Moltres @ Life Orb Ability: Pressure EVs: 124 HP/204 Spd/182 SAtk Modest nature (+SAtk, -Atk) - Fire Blast - Air Slash - Substitute - Roost --- Jirachi @ Leftovers Ability: Serene Grace EVs: 240 HP/76 Def/56 SAtk/136 SDef Bold nature (+Def, -Atk) - Psychic - Grass Knot - U-turn - Wish --- Donphan (♀) @ Leftovers Ability: Sturdy EVs: 252 HP/42 Atk/216 Def Impish nature (+Def, -SAtk) - Earthquake - Ice Shard - Stealth Rock - Rapid Spin --- Vaporeon (♀) @ Leftovers Ability: Water Absorb EVs: 188 HP/252 Def/68 SAtk Bold nature (+Def, -Atk) - Surf - Ice Beam - Substitute - Baton Pass --- Moltres 3HKOs 252 HP / 0 SPDEF Blissey with Life Orb Fire Blast, usually protected behind a Substitute. Tauros manages to 2KHO Blissey. Pokemon I've struggled against the most are Azelf and Houndoom. I'm thinking of replacing Jirachi with a different set or maybe a different Pokemon. It's doing fine, but I need something with more oomph. Everyone else, especially Tauros, Moltres, and Vaporeon are kicking butt. Actually, I'm throwing Thunderpunch on Dusknoir and Ice Beam on Vaporeon. |
In all honesty, we all seen this title a mile away. As such, I shall focus my rage on Samson.
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it may 3HKO blissey, but how in the world would that occur? blissey just boils off the damage. regardless, the set looks good. i only wish you could fit in more sp atk evs for even harder hits. one thing i recently discovered about sub on moltres is that it attracts heatrans and normally, only 1/4 of heatrans moves do more than normal damage, so you'll be able to figure out if it has a Hidden Power typing as well as a choice item.
and i agree, jirachi really doesn't have much threatening power. i'd look into some alternatives, but i have to get going. i'll comment later tonight. |
Life Orb with Sub? crazy
Moltres has 4x SR weak, LO, and Sub, that thing will die like no other |
Actually it hasn't died that often from residual damage. Maybe once in the about thirty battles I've had so far. I'm pretty careful with my switches and such.
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~T_S |
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Dude, seriously. What you just said doesn't really make sense. Life Orb boosts both Special Attacks and Attacks. So before you post again, please learn the basics of the game. Because I'll be nice to you, but others won't. So take the time to learn the game.
I'm also still looking for alternatives to Jirachi. |
I know it has been said before, but I just can't trust Life Orb & Substitute. Especially on a poke that fragile.
But I suppose you can use another sp.wall. How bout Grumpig over Jirachi? With T-Wave. I like mine with Magic Coat, but that's me. Wait a minute-two WoW? Doesn't that seem a bit...risky? |
My Dusknoir:
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You know what I forgot to do. Update the first post. Naughty me.
Trust me sims, with all of the Wish Support, Roosts behind Substitutes, never switching in Moltres with Stealth Rock in play as much as possible, and basically not making stupid choices, Moltres or Tauros will usually clean up the battle at the end. I was thinking Grumpig, but I need something that will hit Azelf, Houndoom, and company harder. Thanks for the suggestion SU. ;-) |
Not Azelf, but Piggly Wiggly does get Grass Knot...
ok, I'm going to say it. Don't hurt me... Vileplume? Ok, ok, sorry. There's Togekiss, but you already have to be careful switching with Moltres. There's Heatran, if you care for that. He can take a hit & dish out some serious blows. Plus, you can bait an EQ, to allow a free switch to Moltres. |
well whatever you replace jirachi for, you must make sure that it can take out some bulky waters with its arsenal of attacks. that's where your team is having difficulties with at the moment.
bronzong has grass knot. i once got a majority of my team sweeped by a gyro ball/grass knot/explosion bronzong. it was so ridiculous. you can probably even make him have that Heatproof ability so that you can bring in moltres a lot easier and not be so scared of houndoom/azelf. earthquake can fit in over explosion for houndoom/heatran and the bunch. tyranitar is an option. subpunch tar would be a nice addition to the team. weaknesses are covered, but sandstream hinders your team =( drapion is a bulky thing who only has ground attacks as his weakness and would probably be a decent spinoff with moltres. whether it could take bulky waters out, thunderfang won't do much damage =( i like the heatproof bronzong idea. it may probably work out a whole lot better than you expect. |
Well, Bronzong could work actually. Jirachi and Moltres pair well together as they resist many of each other's weaknesses. And since Bronzong has the same typing as Jirachi, that may work. And I have been itching to try a mixed Bronzong. Lemme test it out on Shoddy.
If not, I might try Vileplume. lol |
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And I do know the basics, even the EV things. BTW, I personally just think if you have a Special Sweeper, you should have something that boosts SP Atk, and doesn't hurt.Considering the possibilities of a Electivire's Thunderpunch/Stone Edge, I just think that you should consider Moltres's defences. |
First off, Life Orb increases SP.ATK. It doesn't mind the constant drop in HP.
Why would he leave it aganst Vire, anyway? Who cares if it has sucky defenses, it's not meant to take hits. Hence what a sweeper does. With Weavile, one hit will wipe him out. But he is still widely used. As said, you need more knowledge before rating. |
Okay... that doesn't make sense, so I'm going to ignore it. You all should just ignore that post and focus on the team.
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To follow up on Heatproof Zong, Name had a brilliant idea. Since he was lazy, & didn't feel like breeding for Levitate, he instead took advantage of the fact that most people expect Levitate, & went with Heatproof. He then gave it EQ, & Imprison. He wore my only offense--Torterra--with Gya's Intimidate. It took me three Intimidates (with constant switching back & forth with Gya & Zong) until I realized that Zong had Heatproof. It was too late, & then he continued to wall me with Imprison.
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Still...do you guys agree that Zen Headbutt outclasses Return? Sure, Return is okay, but I find other type moveds to be more effective.
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What? NO. Psychic has bad coverage, and Return gets a STAB-making it 154 base power. Zen Headbutt has no place in front of a painful STAB.
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While I appreciate your attempts, they aren't helping. |
Isn't that against the rules, anyway?
Regardless, like the Imprison Zong? |
I never got to test it. I found my DS so I've been breeding and soft resetting for good Moltres.
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Is that harder than breeding, right?
I've been planning on Soft-resetting for a Heatran. Sounds unbelievably hard. Well, if you are planning on mixing Zong, the Imprison idea is sound. It definately has a surprise factor. Shame it doesn't get my favorite move, Cosmic Power. Dual wall to the max. |
i'm not a fan of imprison, especially on something too slow to reap the benefits from it immediately. besides, although Flameproof cuts fire damage in half, it's still SE, and a flamethrower/fire blast from a STAB opponent will still do considerable damage. a fire blast from a heatran would do at least half damage to Bronzong even with Flameproof, and that's barring that it has plenty of sp atk evs with a beneficial/nuetral nature, but not including flash fire/choice specs. bronzong is better off taking hits from pokes who think they can wall it/KO it and revenge killing them. it just can't waste its time when it's limited to OHKOing fire types, but has to do a lot more work if its trying to take out bulky waters and grounds with grass knot.
i would just go with reflect or something like that for the last moveslot. charge beam is always an option. |
Hmm... I need full layout; EVs, Nature, and the like.
Gyro Ball Grass Knot Explosion / Earthquake Reflect |
NO Explosion. If you do that, you'll lose your Pokemon, and the opponent will probably survive. EQ without Question. It needs Fire type defenses.
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Excuse me? Now I am really reporting, cause you just don't learn.
What the hell do you mean "Fire type defense"? Did you even know what Explosion was for BEFORE you posted? Or did you just blather anything that came to mind? Explosion is for last minute kills when his HP is very low, & he is going to die anyway. & maybe 250 base ATK means nothing? You must become more educated to even hope to rate teams, as that was a VERY ametuerish thing to say. |
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It may be to take out certain threats, for example, Snorlax, Blissey and other sp.walls etc, as Loquacitys set might struggle against those, Gyro Ball and/or EQ do squat to Snorlax and Blissey, Grass Knot is there for Bulky Ground types and bulky waters who wall Zong pretty badly. Explosion is worth it always, no matter what the pokemon your using it on is, your almost guaranteed to take a pokemon down with you.. Earthquake is still a great option aswell, but dont shrug such a powerful move like Explosion like its nothing. Also with Bronzong needing fire protection, the word "switch" comes to mind. |
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I'm just saying that suicidal attempts just seem desperate, not stealthy. The true way to battle for me is to keep fighting until you're knocked out...which is very rare for me. |
If you read all of the previous posts, you would note that this Bronzong isn't using Levitate. It's using Heatproof. I'm giving you a warning for now because you're breaking one of the S&M rules: Do not give advice if you lack the knowledge needed to give a proper rate.
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Fire TYPES is not his weakness, Fire MOVES are. What about Salamence? Garchomp? The rare HP Fire Magnezone? Plus, you can SWITCH when a threat comes. You need to learn alot more before you rate. You have been told that multiple times, but you don't listen. When Zong is falling, what is he going to fight back with? The smarter, strategic way to do things is to take the opponent with you. Needlessly getting KOed to show that you can't really fight back is pointless, when you can actually cause some real damage. You aren't really helping much at all. Oh, Loquacity came already. |
I'm no expert, by no means, but I don't think Moltres is reliable part of the team. Stone Edge is a common move nowadays; That 4x Weakness can't be ignored.
Rest of the team looks alright though. |
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I also dont get whats up with people, as soon as they see a 4X weakness, its like "OMFG 1t H4s 4 4x w34kn3ss !!!!!31twentytwo!". It doesnt matter as long as you have something to cover its 4x weakness. For example i use Heatran, it has a 4x weakness to ground, so what ? I pack Salamence and Skarmory aswell, these 3 cover each others weakness, therefore work and i dont have to worry about oncoming Earthquakes at all. Same apply's here in Loquacitys case and team, he doesnt care about stone edge as he has Jirachi and Donphan to cover this. |
So far I've gotten two parts of my team:
Modest Moltres: 20 / 0 / 29 / 31 / 16 / 25 Jolly Tauros: 4 / 31 / 21 / 5 / 24 / 30 Kinda of wish Tauros' HP was better. Lucked out with Moltres I guess because it's Shiny. Soft-Resetting for the win. I am now breeding Bold Eevees. I also still need a complete move set for Bronzong. I might regret losing Wish support, so Jirachi might stay. |
Um, JB, Explosion is so powerful that a CB metagross with explosion does a whopping 85% to SKAMRORY! (You know, the pokemon that resists explosion and has 140 base defense.) That alone should show you the destructive force behind that move.
And to be honest, I'd go for wish support...IMO. I don't really have any facts behind that, it's just a personal preference deal lol No glaring weaks at the time I can see, let me read through it a little more... EDIT: On second thought, I'd just strap wish to Vappy if you want wish support over surf or IB. You'll want to use Bronzong, Choice Band Mence hurts a bit...then again, nobody uses it :0 |
About what range do you all suggest I have Vaporeon's Defense IVs? Like, what's the lowest Vaporeon's Defense IV should go?
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Since Vappy has pretty lol defense (really bad), you'll want it to be 25 or higher probably, as physical attackers gobble it up :(
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I was frustrated earlier, but I just caught a Bold Female Eevee with 26 IV in Defense. So time for some breeding with my Male Eevee with superior IVs in HP and Special Attack.
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