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luke January 17th, 2008 8:45 AM

Dude, seriously. What you just said doesn't really make sense. Life Orb boosts both Special Attacks and Attacks. So before you post again, please learn the basics of the game. Because I'll be nice to you, but others won't. So take the time to learn the game.


I'm also still looking for alternatives to Jirachi.

sims796 January 17th, 2008 8:58 AM

I know it has been said before, but I just can't trust Life Orb & Substitute. Especially on a poke that fragile.

But I suppose you can use another sp.wall. How bout Grumpig over Jirachi? With T-Wave. I like mine with Magic Coat, but that's me.

Wait a minute-two WoW? Doesn't that seem a bit...risky?

Shiny Umbreon January 17th, 2008 9:27 AM

My Dusknoir:
Quote:

[email protected] Berry
Careful (+Sp Def, -Sp Atk)
EV: 252 Def / 252 Sp. Def / 4 Atk
Pressure
Shadow Sneak
Fire Punch
Will-o-Wisp
Pain Split
Don't worry about Lum Berry. I'm crazy. =P You can use leftovers, too, but Dusknoir has poor HP and 252 EVs in HP won't really help it. If you want Pain Split to be at max power, increase only its defenses. EV spread may look weird, but it works pretty well. And you can replace Fire Punch with Thunder Punch, but it may help to burn sometimes.

luke January 17th, 2008 9:33 AM

You know what I forgot to do. Update the first post. Naughty me.

Trust me sims, with all of the Wish Support, Roosts behind Substitutes, never switching in Moltres with Stealth Rock in play as much as possible, and basically not making stupid choices, Moltres or Tauros will usually clean up the battle at the end. I was thinking Grumpig, but I need something that will hit Azelf, Houndoom, and company harder.

Thanks for the suggestion SU. ;-)

sims796 January 17th, 2008 9:39 AM

Not Azelf, but Piggly Wiggly does get Grass Knot...

ok, I'm going to say it. Don't hurt me...

Vileplume?


Ok, ok, sorry.

There's Togekiss, but you already have to be careful switching with Moltres.

There's Heatran, if you care for that. He can take a hit & dish out some serious blows. Plus, you can bait an EQ, to allow a free switch to Moltres.

Samson January 17th, 2008 10:44 AM

well whatever you replace jirachi for, you must make sure that it can take out some bulky waters with its arsenal of attacks. that's where your team is having difficulties with at the moment.

bronzong has grass knot. i once got a majority of my team sweeped by a gyro ball/grass knot/explosion bronzong. it was so ridiculous. you can probably even make him have that Heatproof ability so that you can bring in moltres a lot easier and not be so scared of houndoom/azelf. earthquake can fit in over explosion for houndoom/heatran and the bunch.

tyranitar is an option. subpunch tar would be a nice addition to the team. weaknesses are covered, but sandstream hinders your team =(

drapion is a bulky thing who only has ground attacks as his weakness and would probably be a decent spinoff with moltres. whether it could take bulky waters out, thunderfang won't do much damage =(

i like the heatproof bronzong idea. it may probably work out a whole lot better than you expect.

luke January 17th, 2008 10:53 AM

Well, Bronzong could work actually. Jirachi and Moltres pair well together as they resist many of each other's weaknesses. And since Bronzong has the same typing as Jirachi, that may work. And I have been itching to try a mixed Bronzong. Lemme test it out on Shoddy.

If not, I might try Vileplume. lol

jb0000612 January 17th, 2008 11:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Loquacity (Post 3255305)
Dude, seriously. What you just said doesn't really make sense. Life Orb boosts both Special Attacks and Attacks. So before you post again, please learn the basics of the game. Because I'll be nice to you, but others won't. So take the time to learn the game.


I'm also still looking for alternatives to Jirachi.

I know that. I just wonder, if you're going to use Life Orb, why not get rid of Substitute/Air Slash and replace it with something more powerful?

And I do know the basics, even the EV things. BTW, I personally just think if you have a Special Sweeper, you should have something that boosts SP Atk, and doesn't hurt.Considering the possibilities of a Electivire's Thunderpunch/Stone Edge, I just think that you should consider Moltres's defences.

sims796 January 17th, 2008 12:39 PM

First off, Life Orb increases SP.ATK. It doesn't mind the constant drop in HP.

Why would he leave it aganst Vire, anyway? Who cares if it has sucky defenses, it's not meant to take hits. Hence what a sweeper does. With Weavile, one hit will wipe him out. But he is still widely used.

As said, you need more knowledge before rating.

luke January 17th, 2008 1:08 PM

Okay... that doesn't make sense, so I'm going to ignore it. You all should just ignore that post and focus on the team.

sims796 January 17th, 2008 2:21 PM

To follow up on Heatproof Zong, Name had a brilliant idea. Since he was lazy, & didn't feel like breeding for Levitate, he instead took advantage of the fact that most people expect Levitate, & went with Heatproof. He then gave it EQ, & Imprison. He wore my only offense--Torterra--with Gya's Intimidate. It took me three Intimidates (with constant switching back & forth with Gya & Zong) until I realized that Zong had Heatproof. It was too late, & then he continued to wall me with Imprison.

jb0000612 January 17th, 2008 7:21 PM

Still...do you guys agree that Zen Headbutt outclasses Return? Sure, Return is okay, but I find other type moveds to be more effective.

sims796 January 17th, 2008 7:28 PM

What? NO. Psychic has bad coverage, and Return gets a STAB-making it 154 base power. Zen Headbutt has no place in front of a painful STAB.

luke January 17th, 2008 11:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jb0000612 (Post 3256734)
Still...do you guys agree that Zen Headbutt outclasses Return? Sure, Return is okay, but I find other type moveds to be more effective.

I'd like to ask you to please stop posting in my thread. Your advice is uneducated and possesses little merit. So please stop trying to give advice when you are obviously the one who needs to learn a few things.

While I appreciate your attempts, they aren't helping.

sims796 January 17th, 2008 11:23 PM

Isn't that against the rules, anyway?

Regardless, like the Imprison Zong?

luke January 17th, 2008 11:24 PM

I never got to test it. I found my DS so I've been breeding and soft resetting for good Moltres.

sims796 January 17th, 2008 11:27 PM

Is that harder than breeding, right?

I've been planning on Soft-resetting for a Heatran. Sounds unbelievably hard.

Well, if you are planning on mixing Zong, the Imprison idea is sound. It definately has a surprise factor.

Shame it doesn't get my favorite move, Cosmic Power. Dual wall to the max.

Samson January 18th, 2008 1:08 AM

i'm not a fan of imprison, especially on something too slow to reap the benefits from it immediately. besides, although Flameproof cuts fire damage in half, it's still SE, and a flamethrower/fire blast from a STAB opponent will still do considerable damage. a fire blast from a heatran would do at least half damage to Bronzong even with Flameproof, and that's barring that it has plenty of sp atk evs with a beneficial/nuetral nature, but not including flash fire/choice specs. bronzong is better off taking hits from pokes who think they can wall it/KO it and revenge killing them. it just can't waste its time when it's limited to OHKOing fire types, but has to do a lot more work if its trying to take out bulky waters and grounds with grass knot.

i would just go with reflect or something like that for the last moveslot. charge beam is always an option.

luke January 18th, 2008 8:48 AM

Hmm... I need full layout; EVs, Nature, and the like.

Gyro Ball
Grass Knot
Explosion / Earthquake
Reflect

jb0000612 January 18th, 2008 11:42 AM

NO Explosion. If you do that, you'll lose your Pokemon, and the opponent will probably survive. EQ without Question. It needs Fire type defenses.

sims796 January 18th, 2008 11:51 AM

Excuse me? Now I am really reporting, cause you just don't learn.

What the hell do you mean "Fire type defense"?

Did you even know what Explosion was for BEFORE you posted? Or did you just blather anything that came to mind? Explosion is for last minute kills when his HP is very low, & he is going to die anyway. & maybe 250 base ATK means nothing?

You must become more educated to even hope to rate teams, as that was a VERY ametuerish thing to say.

Dark Azelf January 18th, 2008 11:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jb0000612 (Post 3257873)
NO Explosion. If you do that, you'll lose your Pokemon, and the opponent will probably survive. EQ without Question. It needs Fire type defenses.

Explosion is a base 250 power move, very few things can survive it, unless your an extremely defensive pokemon, resist it or are a ghost.

It may be to take out certain threats, for example, Snorlax, Blissey and other sp.walls etc, as Loquacitys set might struggle against those, Gyro Ball and/or EQ do squat to Snorlax and Blissey, Grass Knot is there for Bulky Ground types and bulky waters who wall Zong pretty badly. Explosion is worth it always, no matter what the pokemon your using it on is, your almost guaranteed to take a pokemon down with you..

Earthquake is still a great option aswell, but dont shrug such a powerful move like Explosion like its nothing.

Also with Bronzong needing fire protection, the word "switch" comes to mind.

jb0000612 January 18th, 2008 12:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sims796 (Post 3257885)
Excuse me? Now I am really reporting, cause you just don't learn.

What the hell do you mean "Fire type defense"?

Did you even know what Explosion was for BEFORE you posted? Or did you just blather anything that came to mind? Explosion is for last minute kills when his HP is very low, & he is going to die anyway. & maybe 250 base ATK means nothing?

You must become more educated to even hope to rate teams, as that was a VERY ametuerish thing to say.

If your Bronzong has Levitate, you need something that can keep Fire types, which are Bronzong's only weaknesses in the graveyard, thereby making Bronzong undestructible.

I'm just saying that suicidal attempts just seem desperate, not stealthy. The true way to battle for me is to keep fighting until you're knocked out...which is very rare for me.

luke January 18th, 2008 12:08 PM

If you read all of the previous posts, you would note that this Bronzong isn't using Levitate. It's using Heatproof. I'm giving you a warning for now because you're breaking one of the S&M rules: Do not give advice if you lack the knowledge needed to give a proper rate.

sims796 January 18th, 2008 12:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jb0000612 (Post 3257905)
If your Bronzong has Levitate, you need something that can keep Fire types, which are Bronzong's only weaknesses in the graveyard, thereby making Bronzong undestructible.

I'm just saying that suicidal attempts just seem desperate, not stealthy. The true way to battle for me is to keep fighting until you're knocked out...which is very rare for me.

You just plum don't understand, don't you?

Fire TYPES is not his weakness, Fire MOVES are. What about Salamence? Garchomp? The rare HP Fire Magnezone? Plus, you can SWITCH when a threat comes.

You need to learn alot more before you rate. You have been told that multiple times, but you don't listen.

When Zong is falling, what is he going to fight back with? The smarter, strategic way to do things is to take the opponent with you. Needlessly getting KOed to show that you can't really fight back is pointless, when you can actually cause some real damage. You aren't really helping much at all.


Oh, Loquacity came already.


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