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-   -   SkarmBliss... TOISE??? Im spreading the Word!! (https://www.pokecommunity.com/showthread.php?t=123701)

Eos Aduro January 19th, 2008 9:38 PM

SkarmBliss... TOISE??? Im spreading the Word!!
 
Ok, now this may seem a little bizarre, but I;ve been using a Blastoise on my team as a rapid spinner, aswell as SarmBliss, and truthfully, its been working GREAT! I think he desrevs more credit than people give him, so Im sharing the combo with the world!

---
Blastoise (♂) @ Leftovers
Ability: Torrent
EVs: 252 HP/120 Def/136 SDef
Bold nature (+Def, -Atk)
- Rapid Spin
- Rest
- Surf/Waterfall/Aqua Tail
- Toxic/Ice Beam/Protect/Haze
---
Blissey (♀) @ Leftovers
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 252 HP/252 Def/4 SDef
Bold nature (+Def, -Atk)
- Aromatherapy
- Seismic Toss
- Softboiled
- Ice Beam
---
Skarmory (♂) @ Leftovers
Ability: Keen Eye
EVs: 252 HP/44 Atk/212 Def
Impish nature (+Def, -SAtk)
- Brave Bird
- Roost
- Spikes
- Whirlwind
---


So Blastoise is a rapid spinner, but what people underestimate about him is how well he soaks up attacks. I love switching this guy into Heatran and Surfing. And SkarmBliss is just, well, yeah amazing. So any obvious changes?

Ársa January 19th, 2008 11:27 PM

Only problem is if your opponent switches in a pokemon with Water Absorb. Vaporeon with HP Electric will breeze through Blastoise and Skarmory, and then STAB Surf with the Water Absorb will do some serious Damage to Blissey, and if Vappy hides behind a sub against bliss, bliss won't be able to defeat it without Thunderbolt, and even then, 2 of your walls are gone.

~T_S

Samson January 20th, 2008 12:08 AM

umm tortured has a point, but tortured, don't overdo it ._. surf does very little to blissey even if it does have STAB.

regardless, subpass vaporeon isn't common. but we can keep saying that this trio has a serious issue with other bulky waters, namely MixPert.

i'd give blastoise counter instead of toxic. mixed variants of pokes like garchomp/ttar/salamence, etc do some real hurt to this trio, especially in the SkarmBliss department and blastoise is the standing hope in taking them out. but honestly, i wouldn't go with blastoise to cover skarm's weaknesses. CBHera 2HKO/OHKOs all of them with Close Combat. i'd go for a fighting resist for the last slot, and something that can handle infernape a lot better.

tenta is an option, but it can't take physical hits all that well.

Ársa January 20th, 2008 12:36 AM

What I meant was, Bliss cannot do much to Vaporeon when it is running Substitute and Bliss doesn't have Thunderbolt which is a big if, but I personally use a Sub-Pass Vappy. It could simply Surf while Bliss Seismic Toss', then Sub, then Surf, then Surf, then Sub etc. No doubt a crit will come in eventually, and he will still only have Bliss left as a wall, unless it's a stall team.

~T_S

Archer January 20th, 2008 2:52 AM

It may have problems with Mixvire.
Skarmory - Tbolt
Blissey - Cross Chop
Blastoise - Tbolt/Punch

Otherwise, its pretty damn nice. Toxic or Ice Beam for the last choice. Unless you need a Hazer.

Samson January 20th, 2008 11:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tortured_Soul (Post 3262787)
What I meant was, Bliss cannot do much to Vaporeon when it is running Substitute and Bliss doesn't have Thunderbolt which is a big if, but I personally use a Sub-Pass Vappy. It could simply Surf while Bliss Seismic Toss', then Sub, then Surf, then Surf, then Sub etc. No doubt a crit will come in eventually, and he will still only have Bliss left as a wall, unless it's a stall team.

~T_S

you'd have to crit 3-4 times in a row to stop a blissey from outstalling vaporeon.

that's just not gonna happen.

ABYAY January 20th, 2008 11:59 AM

Lonely Electivire anyone? Archer just pretty much described it. Hopefully you have something that can counter E-Vire, or else this trio is going to crash apart.

Anti January 20th, 2008 12:00 PM

With my new super-mega-haxotron-ultra-mega-machine it will Samson >:0

Blastoise is good and all, but I can't help but notice that a strong thunderbolt blows through it and skarm. I guess Blissey takes it, but still.

Real problem is that Heracross can mow all 3 down if it's a CB variant.

But yeah, pretty cool trio.

Shiraishi January 20th, 2008 1:51 PM

Blastoise does not wall Infernape too well, it's gonna get 2 shotted by Grass knot.

Electivire lols.

Skarm/Bliss/Tentacruel or Skarm/Bliss/Vaporeon can cover Infernape..

Donphan/Dusknoir/ScarfChomp can counter Electivire.

Eos Aduro January 20th, 2008 3:12 PM

Well sweepers on my team include ScarfCross, CBMence, and Specs-Z. Electivire falls to Heracross's Close Comabt or MEgahorn, plus Specs-Z usuaully draws them out by being a bolt-beamer then Tri Attacks it too death, OHKO every time. Heracross gets stopped by Skarm, but what I really need is a spinner, and a mixed wall, and so far thats done to Claydol and Blastoise, and Claydol didn't work. And for some reason the Infernape I face never use Grass Knot, on Shoddy its less common, and Blastoise can take Flamethrowers and Close Combats easily. The real problem on my team is the electric problem, I know Im electric weak. I dont want to replace Blastoise, I was hoping more for help with the last slot, its been Toxic so far, but its not working as well. Want I might do is replace CBMence for something that can take electric hits, and maybe a mixed sweeper, but Im not sure.

(BTW Archer it doesnt have to be MixVire to be a problem, I say if an Electivire has Thunderbolt and is all physical, its a physical electivire with Thunderbolt, not a MixVire)

flamehaze94 January 20th, 2008 3:51 PM

._____.

I don't see the synergy here, except that all three gets raped by 60% of the entire metagame.

I'll just share what I use for the hell of it:
Jir/Glis/Bliss/Tran. Bulky Tran, mind you.

Eos Aduro January 20th, 2008 3:57 PM

Well im trying out a Mixed Electivire to take away the electric weak, and I've only had one battle, so far no dice. But how can SDkarm Bliss get raped by 60% of the Metagame, its pretty much the best walling combo there is, it only gets raped by SakrmBliss killers, which dont make up 60% of the metagame.

flamehaze94 January 20th, 2008 4:12 PM

I'm sorry:

Aerodactyl
Ambipom
Azelf - LO Explosion versions
Blissey
Breloom
Bronzong
Celebi
Cresselia
Deoxys-E (Speed)
Donphan
Dragonite
Dusknoir
Electivire
Forretress
Garchomp
Gengar
Gliscor
Gyarados
Heatran - LO/Specs versions
Heracross
Hippowdon
Infernape
Jirachi
Lucario
Machamp
Magnezone - LO versions
Mamoswine
Metagross
Porygon-Z - NP/Mixed versions
Raikou
Salamence
Scizor
Skarmory
Slowbro
Spiritomb
Starmie
Suicune
Swampert - Mixed versions
Tangrowth
Togekiss - Blissey is set up fodder
Tyranitar
Weavile
Weezing
Yanmega
Zapdos - Metal Sound/Toxic versions are very common

20/45 of the OU teir. That means it losses to 44% of the entire OU metagame.

Eos Aduro January 20th, 2008 4:20 PM

You seem to be considering them as seperate pokes, togther, say Breloom can take down Blissey, but Skarm gets it, its of the list. They work togther, most of the pokes on your list can only take down one of them. Also many of those are obscure versions, that aren;t used often. SkarmBliss even if say a Azelf that explodes comes there way, if you know its goingmto explode, you switch in Skarm to take the hit, most of these dont work.

flamehaze94 January 20th, 2008 4:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Midnight Winged (Post 3264752)
You seem to be considering them as seperate pokes, togther, say Breloom can take down Blissey, but Skarm gets it, its of the list. They work togther, most of the pokes on your list can only take down one of them. Also many of those are obscure versions, that aren;t used often. SkarmBliss even if say a Azelf that explodes comes there way, if you know its goingmto explode, you switch in Skarm to take the hit, most of these dont work.

Sooooo, you're saying Skarm who gets 2HKOed by Focus Punch, stalled by Leech Seed, slept by Spore, a Breloom counter?!?!

The opponent can also use prediction too. Ohhh..betcha didn't know that huh? He can anticipate something resistant going in on Explosion hand hammer with Flamethower.

Eos Aduro January 20th, 2008 4:34 PM

You;re overanalysing this, Breloom isnt a SkarmBliss killer, its too dangerous to keep a Breloom in against a Skarmory anyway, it can roost away damage, and Whirlwind if you dont have a sub up, and has a super effective hit against you. Why would you keep it in, especially since Blissey is also an Aromatherapist and can heal away sleep. And I think you need to calm down a bit, this is a discussion, not an argument.

flamehaze94 January 20th, 2008 5:15 PM

Umm..no.
Breloom isn't switching into Skarm. Skarm is switching into Breloom. It cannot take sleep at all, and Blissey won't be switching into Breloom any time soon so it cannot heal the sleep. Blastoise gets raped by Seed Bomb, Blissey and Skarmory by Focus Punch. You can't (P)haze it away that easily either.

Breloom is tightening its focus.
You switch into Skarmory.
Breloom uses Focus Punch!
Breloom is tightening its focus.
Breloom uses Focus Punch!
*failed attempt of (P)hazing inserted here*

Whirlwind always goes last so it can Focus Punch it before you can (P)haze it away. If you try to Drill Peck, it has a Sub to protect it so you still lose. Roost is really the only way to go but most Looms carry Leech Seed, and can outstall youy with a combo of Sub/Punch/Seed, simple eh?
It isn't a SkarmBliss killer, but it has the capabilities to do so if played correctly. If you let something take sleep though, sleep clause will break through Loom, so Skarm can have at least a decent chance of countering it.

Now enough about this.


On a further note:
Blastoise isn't helping out with the combo at all. The common stuff that can kill SkarmBliss is still at roam out there. Blastoise is just Blastoise. :/

Anti January 20th, 2008 5:20 PM

About Metal Sound Zappy, I actually use that on my newest (and best) team, and I battled Midnight w/ this walling thing going on. IT actually was promptly stopped with Vire...though it took 83% from HP Ice before going down (metal sound FTW).

The real probelm with Skarmbliss is how stallable they are (like Articuno does to 'em). So is SkarmBlissDol, which is what I never really liked about it. On my SkarmBliss ADV team, I use Swampert to fight back against crap that likes to stall. You'll want something liek that here.

For example, I found your team stallable in general, especially these three. While walls are stallable, these 3 are definitely 3 of the easiest, as none can really fight back...geez, I'm not making sense...

I basically mean that stuff like Suicune or Articuno is going to stall your life away. You can't really fight back well with any of these three at all, Skarm and Blastoise to some extent, but still very weak, whereas walls like Gliscor have STAB EQs to work off of.

CBtar is what I really see screwing this over. It'll obliterate Skarmory with Stone edge, and Toise and bliss aren't far behind.

Then again, you could say all of this about the Skarmbliss combo in general. Eh, I'm really tired, this post probably has a lot of mistakes >.>

EDIT: If sleep clause is in effect, Skarm has a decent shot. I agree on the Blastoise notwe, it just seems to spin...

Eos Aduro January 20th, 2008 6:16 PM

It swept a FEAR team, but a Bidoof can do that. The whole point of Blastiose was actually a filler till I found a new way to spn for the team, and so far he's done pretty good. But I am having problems if my sweepers fall, I dont have someone like a tank that deals in both receiving and attacking, so Im thinking of something over Skarm and Donphan goes in over Blastoise to do some spinning.

Anti January 20th, 2008 7:24 PM

I always loved using SkarmClops in ADV (with Blissey of Course), and Clops got a bit of an upgrade to take advantage of :P Noir absorbs fighting crap that Skarm fears. Powerful Stonje Edges from CBtar can be a problem though, so you might find Donphan over Skarm (for the rock resist) more suitable. Actually, I run that, except with Articuno...works well :P

When using Skarm, you'll want to cover up that fighting "weak" it has (eh, it doesn't resist it, which is enough of a weak for Medicham and CBcross). CBcross is easily countered by two pokemon...like Skarm can take megahorn and a Cressi can take Close Combat...or any other example like that.

However, due to the monstrous threat that is Choice Band Tyranitar, you might wanna take the weakness to rock more seriously (which is where Claydol comes in for skarmblissdol).

When making my walling trios, I find using SkarmBlissDol as a model to help, as they do resist every single attack there is, except maybe seismic toss lol. though stuff like fire isn't really included since Bliss walls that stuff just fine.

Yeah, I'd honestly take out either Skarm or blastoise for a rock resist...and preferable something that can take electric and fightinig blows if you can. Claydol fits that, but that's too generic lol

Eos Aduro January 20th, 2008 8:11 PM

Im thinking Donphan replaces Blastoise, and Skarm I don;t really like right now, he just isn't working, so Im thinking maybe I go Donphan and as a mixed wall, I use Dusknoir, and CBMence replaces Electivire.

ABYAY January 21st, 2008 10:22 AM

If you wanna keep a Water type, why not Tentacruel? It can get Rapid Spin too, and if you wanna be a lil more secure, run Barrier over Toxic Spikes; Surf, and Ice Beam ran respectively. I heard it works wonders, and I'm going to try it out sometime.

Shiraishi January 21st, 2008 10:25 AM

Donphan gets r4pz0r3d by Infernape :/ try Bliss/Donphan/Vaporeon. Vaporeon stops MixApe in it's tracks ^^

Anti January 21st, 2008 10:41 AM

Donphan gets hammered by Naoe, but a mixed wall in there helps. Mixape never likes a Cressi in its path...power to da mixed walls!


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