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shedinjask January 25th, 2008 6:15 PM

^ Burn Orb is better on Yama since it stays in.

And screw you guys putting 252 HP on something with 144/60/60 defenses.

Hariyama @ Leftovers
EVs: 252 Def/252 SDef/4 HP
Ability: Thick Fat/Guts
Impish Nature
Counter
Whirlwind
Knock Off
Payback

Counter is an good option. Knock Off can be annoying, as can Whirlwind. Payback hits the Ghosties but most will suffer from simply losing their item. Dusknoir/Spiritomb/Missy really like their Lefties, Gengar is much less of a threat without Life Orb/Specs/Scarf/Wide Lens, Rotom loses its Tricking power, and it even one-shots Focus Sash Sheddy. I think. It works that way on Shoddy at least.

This thing would be so great with Slack Off.

PhoenixFlare January 25th, 2008 7:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shedinjask (Post 3279099)
^ Burn Orb is better on Yama since it stays in.

And screw you guys putting 252 HP on something with 144/60/60 defenses.

Hariyama @ Leftovers
EVs: 252 Def/252 SDef/4 HP
Ability: Thick Fat/Guts
Impish Nature
Counter
Taunt
Whirlwind/Knock Off/Payback
Whirlwind/Knock Off/Payback

Taunt/Counter is an good option. Knock Off can be annoying, as can Whirlwind. Payback hits the Ghosties but most will suffer from simply losing their item. Dusknoir/Spiritomb/Missy really like their Lefties, Gengar is much less of a threat without Life Orb/Specs/Scarf/Wide Lens, Rotom loses its Tricking power, and it even one-shots Focus Sash Sheddy. I think. It works that way on Shoddy at least.

This thing would be so great with Slack Off.

One problem Hariyama doesn't get Taunt.

Ooka January 25th, 2008 7:21 PM

[email protected] Orb
Adamant~252 Attack/252 HP/6 Speed
Trait:Guts
Facade
Close Combat
Bullet Punch
Fake Out

Fake out first turn as long as you aren't against a ghost, which ensures you activating your Orb, then kill stuff ._.
Bullet punch is for Sashers, or if your team has spikes support, you can use it to finish off weakened stuff. Works quite well when in the right hands IMO.

shedinjask January 25th, 2008 7:28 PM

So it doesn't get Taunt.

._.

Hariyama has better moves than Facade.

Ooka January 25th, 2008 7:43 PM

Um, Facade gets 140 power after the Move boost, plus a boost from Guts.

Faceless* January 25th, 2008 7:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ooka (Post 3279339)
Um, Facade gets 140 power after the Move boost and guts boost.

and Close Combat gets 180 Power all by itself ._.

and read the descriptions on my set Shedinjask, and distributing Defense and Special Defense will actually help.. in what way? Boost it's best stats to have a neat advantage of surviving, boosting it's worst stats will hinder especially if it's the defense/special defense. (not attack since you're running a strange Hariyama ?_?)

Ooka January 25th, 2008 7:52 PM

Actually, it gets around 210 after the boosts. Just not STAB.

70x2 for Facade boost, and 140x1.5 for Guts Boost.

Faceless* January 25th, 2008 7:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ooka (Post 3279366)
Actually, it gets around 210 after the boosts. Just not STAB.

70x2 for Facade boost, and 140x1.5 for Guts Boost.

No.. Gut's boosts your base attack stat by 1.5x, not the power

If that was true, then Close Combat would STILL be better

Ooka January 25th, 2008 7:58 PM

I never said Close Combat wasn't better ._.

Romo_Owens January 25th, 2008 8:28 PM

Bulky Sweeper

-Close Combat
-Bulk Up
-Earthquake
-Stone Edge/Rest

216 atk/146 def/146 hp
Adamant

sims796 January 25th, 2008 11:24 PM

Before I give my two cents, I thougt it was an update every Wednsday?

shedinjask January 26th, 2008 5:25 AM

You boost Yama's defenses for the same reason you boost Wobby's. Or Vappy's Def. Or Snorlax's Def. Or how if you are putting any EVs into Bliss's SAttk you should take them out of HP. Normally, you would max HP before defenses. This is not the case with high HP/low defensive stat Pokemon.

Ársa January 26th, 2008 5:26 AM

HP improves all 3 if you think about it. A higher HP, the more it can be hit. Even if you increase the defenses, they won't be increased as greatly as HP, therefore you would be taking away from Hariyama's overall ability to absorb hits.

~T_S

shedinjask January 26th, 2008 6:18 AM

High HP means little without good defenses. Why do you think standard Wobby is 252/252 Def/SDef? It has great HP and bad defenses.

If I could find that applet that was made I'd show you that.

EDIT: Stupid Smogon not having a working search function.

Anyways, a Hariyama with max HP and no SDef took a little more damage from Specs Starmie Surf, among other things, than one with just 128 SDef, meaning 252 Attk/128 Def/128 SDef Adamant is a better spread than 252 HP/252 Attk/4 ?? Adamant.

boo836 January 26th, 2008 6:45 AM

Counters:

Cressy can wall and throw a reflect and psychic at him.

Poisons can resist if yama does not have eq

Mesprit and uxie fare well agong with azelf at an extent.

Deoxes-S Does a number if it has psychic.

Dusknoir needs to be wary of guts because of thunder punch or WOW.

Spiritomb is not effected by stab'd Close combats and cross chops. And teases with stab'd sucker punches.

Any psychic sweeper with psychic is a good counter.

Gliscor resists stab CC but needs to be wary of the occasional ice punch.

Ooka January 26th, 2008 9:51 AM

How would poisons wall him? As long as he's carrying Facade that is. ;)

Gengar is a big wall for him. Dual Poison and Ghost, so Bullet Punch hardly hurts Gar, and nothing else he has effects Gengar.

boo836 January 26th, 2008 9:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ooka (Post 3280774)
How would poisons wall him? As long as he's carrying Facade that is. ;)

Gengar is a big wall for him. Dual Poison and Ghost, so Bullet Punch hardly hurts Gar, and nothing else he has effects Gengar.

Good point. What I meant were physical poison walls or poison types who stand good against the fighting attacks.

Ooka January 26th, 2008 10:27 AM

The only one that comes to my mind is Dorapion, which dies pretty easily from Close Combat after the Guts boost.

boo836 January 26th, 2008 10:29 AM

Muk too. Along with the nidos and weezing.

Ooka January 26th, 2008 10:34 AM

Well, Nidoking isn't really a wall, and Nidoqueen would die to Facade. Weezing is probably all you would have to worry about, unless the Muk had gotten in some Curses.

shedinjask January 26th, 2008 10:36 AM

No you

Nidos wall Hariyama.

He has Payback for Ghosts btw.

Facade is a really bad option on him, epscially if it's only to beat the Nidos. And it is.

Ooka January 26th, 2008 10:40 AM

Um, no, it isn't.....

I use a Hariyama, and believe me, Facade gets used against a lot of Pokemon, epecially when I want to avoid a Defense/Sp Def drop.

ABYAY January 26th, 2008 10:45 AM

Facade is there for a lot of pokemon. Maybe Specsmence could ring a bell? It resists CC, but not Facade as much. I'm not saying OHKO, but it's close. Stone Edge is there for the situation too, but Facade's still safer, and Bullet Punch to remove the last bit of HP if it remains in.

Ooka January 26th, 2008 10:52 AM

Yeah, pretty much negates FSs too.

luke January 26th, 2008 10:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sims796 (Post 3279937)
Before I give my two cents, I thought it was an update every Wednsday?

I decided to change it, seeing as a week seems like a great deal of time to wait. I'm not rushing it though. The Golem discussion was pretty much done, and I wanted to move onto a Pokemon who would incite more conversation, like the versatile Hariyama.

I like this discussion guys. Just don't let it devolve into senseless squabbling. Thanks everyone for participating in this thread.


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