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sims796 March 1st, 2008 1:02 PM

Review 4.0
 
Well, the system died, but my final choice was Sceptile. I've made up my mind on this.

[email protected] Orb***Geico(Switch your Car Insurance, RIGHT NAOW!)
Nature:Jolly
EV:252 ATK, 252 SPD, 6 SP.DEF/HP/Who Cares?
Leaf Blade
Earthquake
Dragon Claw
Swords Dance
Physical Sweeper. Well, I needed a hard hitter, so I thought Lucario. But I wanted a grass type, so I thought Breelom. But I wanted speed, so...Sceptile! Physical, that is. Hits just about all but Skar, Zong, Tangrowth, but those are dealt with by others.


[email protected]***Dragoon
Nature:Adamant
Waterfall/Ice Fang
Stone Edge/EQ
Dragon Dance
Taunt
EV:212 HP/16 ATK/180 DEF/100 SPD
Bulky Sweeper. Standard Tauntdos. Painful when played right, although I may give him a wii bit more ATK. Might try out Icequake.


[email protected] Sash***Sparks
Nature:Timid
T-bolt
Grass Knot
Focus Blast
Nasty Plot
EV:MAX SP.ATK/MAX SPD/6 SP.DEF
Special Sweeper. He abuses Focus Sash for powerful moves. Wish he had a bit more speed, but meh. I really hate Focus Blast, missing every two moves or so, but I have no choice.


[email protected]***Comet
Nature:Relaxed
Rest
EQ
Rapid Spin
Stealth Rock
EV:MAX HP/88 ATK/164 DEF
Physical Wall. Also my Spinner, & Trap setter. Because he is my prime wall, Explosion is not an option. Stealth Rock over Spikes for I dislike Sashers more. This is a matter of opinion, so.


[email protected]***Lumas
Nature:Calm
Psychic
Calm Mind
Rest
Magic Coat/Shadow Ball
EV:MAX HP/52 SP.ATK/200 SP.DEF
Special Wall. With Rest, & Aromatherapy, it makes it a hell of alot easier for him to wall. If I give him Shadow Ball, can he handle Cressy? Magic Coat is just fun to play. It always is. I got rid of that God awful inaccurate non-chargin Chage Beam.


[email protected] Sludge***Petals
Nature:Calm
Energy Ball
Hidden Power [ICE]
Aromatherapy
Sleep Powder
EV:244 HP/90 SP.ATK/140 SP.DEF/30 DEF
Cleric. My team favorite! He is also a limited mixed wall. I discovered this when I accidentally gave him DEF EV's while training him in SP.DEF. His typing allows him much survivability. Although he has many weaknesses, not all are seen that often. You can kiss my arse, he's in!


Spoiler:
[S]This is getting an update. Cressila always causes me grief, due to the fact that I can't hit hard enough. The commom sweepers, Garchomp, Salamence, T-tar, are not a problem, they are all easy to take out. However, it's the defensive pokes that annoy me. I lack the ability to KO hard. I won't rebreed Flygon, so no Choice Band. But Cressila really annooys me. Will Shadow Ball handle it? I mean, Grumpig can stall Cressy, but to an extent. He did a great job stalling one today, but couldn't "keep up". Maybe if it had Shadow Ball...


But I don't know what to replace. I think Grumpig is a decent Nape counter, but only if he has Reflect? I dunno. It's those walls with incredible HP that annoys me to no end. Like Blissey, but not as severe, as Gya can handle it.

I would also like to make room for Torterra, but...

Maybe I need another wall, or something.
[S]

Any glaring weaknesses, that CAN'T be revenge KOed?

darkion March 1st, 2008 10:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sims796 (Post 3384463)
[email protected]***Dragoon
Nature:Adamant
Waterfall
Stone Edge
Dragon Dance
Taunt???
EV:212 HP/16 ATK/180 DEF/100 SPD
Physical Sweeper. Standard Tauntdos. Painful when played right, although I may give him a wii bit more ATK.

Use a good earthquake . Useful for nasty electric types. Also have less evs in hp and more in attack and speed.



[email protected] Sash***Sparks
Nature:Timid
T-bolt
Grass Knot
Focus Blast
Nasty Plot
EV:MAX SP.ATK/MAX SPD/6 SP.DEF
Special Sweeper. He abuses Focus Sash for powerful moves. For instance, if Specsmence causes me grief, I can last with Sash to hit hard.

Best set for a electric type. Though you can use iron tail for those rock/ground combos.


[email protected]***Comet
Nature:Relaxed
Rest
EQ
Rapid Spin
Stealth Rock
EV:MAX HP/88 ATK/164 DEF
Physical Wall. Also my Spinner, & Trap setter. Because he is my prime wall, Explosion is not an option. Stealth Rock over Spikes for I dislike Sashers more. This is a matter of opinion, so.
Good moveset. Give more evs in def.


[email protected]***Lumas
Nature:Calm
Psychic
Charge Beam
Rest
Magic Coat
EV:MAX HP/52 SP.ATK/200 SP.DEF
Special Wall. With Rest, & Aromatherapy, it makes it a hell of alot easier for him to wall. If I give him Shadow Ball, can he handle Cressy? Magic Coat is just fun to play. It always is.
SHADOW BALL {PLEASE}


[email protected] Scarf***Yoshi
Nature:Naughty
EQ
Draco Metor
Fire Blast
U-Turn
EV:252 ATK/120 SP.ATK/136 SPD
Mixed Sweeper. This is my favorite set, my lead, and my scouter.
Remove EQ for earthquake or ice beam.

[email protected] Sludge***Petals
Nature:Calm
Energy Ball
Hidden Power [ICE]
Aromatherapy
Sleep Powder
EV:244 HP/90 SP.ATK/140 SP.DEF/30 DEF
Cleric. My team favorite! He is also a limited mixed wall. I discovered this when I accidentally gave him DEF EV's while training him in SP.DEF. His typing allows him much survivability. Although he has many weaknesses, not all are seen that often.
give him sunnybeam combo(solarbeam/sunny day)


This is getting an update. Cressila always causes me grief, due to the fact that I can't hit hard enough. The commom sweepers, Garchomp, Salamence, T-tar, are not a problem, they are all easy to take out. However, it's the defensive pokes that annoy me. I lack the ability to KO hard. I won't rebreed Flygon, so no Choice Band. But Cressila really annooys me. Will Shadow Ball handle it? I mean, Grumpig can stall Cressy, but to an extent. He did a great job stalling one today, but couldn't "keep up". Maybe if it had Shadow Ball...


But I don't know what to replace. I think Grumpig is a decent Nape counter, but only if he has Reflect? I dunno. It's those walls with incredible HP that annoys me to no end. Like Blissey, but not as severe, as Gya can handle it.

I would also like to make room for Torterra, but...

Maybe I need another wall, or something.




Just pay heed to my changes and you will be undefeatable.

sims796 March 1st, 2008 10:39 PM

No offense, but that is horrible advice.

Iron Tail is a terrible move, especially with a ATK decreasing nature. Doesn't Grass Knot handle Rock AND Ground?

Sunny Day weakens Gyarados. I won't increase vurnerability just for a quick combo.

Do you know how a Tauntdos works? Look it up, I won't waste time explaining. Second, after a Dragon Dance, Stone Edge & Waterfall handles electrics easily.

Third, EQ IS Earthquake. Ice Beam is a waste of time.

I appreciate the help, but that wasn't too good.

Anti March 1st, 2008 10:50 PM

First off Garchomp is a problem considering nothing you have can really hurt it, and what can is OHKOed. Well, Scarfchomp and Chain Chomp are beatean but SD gives you a mess of trouble.

I'm having a lot of trouble figuring out the problem with this team, I really am.

As for walls, Toxic smashes Cress without Rest. Shadow Ball will not be doing much to something with 130 base SDef and 120 base HP (I think it was). Cresselia is assassinated by anything with pursuit, so you can always go that route.

Honestly Flygon is a bit of a dead weight. And it isn't just my obvious bias that I think CB Flygon is better since that wouldn't help much either.

I know you only use favorites so I don't know what replacments you'd actually use which makes this harder. Hmm, I think some Swampert action would really help here, or even Quagsire. You need a more reliable bulky water than Gyarados (as in one that doesn't die to stone edge) and stops Cressi from using Charge Beam to boost special attack and can roar stuff. It covers Forry's weaknesses very well and will take care of that gaping gap to physical Infernape.

Actually that Flygon set reminds me of Mixpert in a way but never mind that :P

I know Scizor will hammer down Blissey and Cress (though Blissey with Thunder Wave or Flamethrower will be a big problem) and can kinda sweep.

I dunno, could you give me ALL the pokemon you would use? That way I can narrow down a solution...

EDIT: flygon can't even learn Ice Beam ._.

sims796 March 1st, 2008 11:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anti-Pop (Post 3387039)
First off Garchomp is a problem considering nothing you have can really hurt it, and what can is OHKOed. Well, Scarfchomp and Chain Chomp are beatean but SD gives you a mess of trouble.

I'm having a lot of trouble figuring out the problem with this team, I really am.
Is this a compliment? Thanks.
As for walls, Toxic smashes Cress without Rest. Shadow Ball will not be doing much to something with 130 base SDef and 120 base HP (I think it was). Cresselia is assassinated by anything with pursuit, so you can always go that route.

Honestly Flygon is a bit of a dead weight. And it isn't just my obvious bias that I think CB Flygon is better since that wouldn't help much either.
Ironically, he does the best. He is my scouting lead, my favorite kind of lead for a cautious person like me. Draco Meteor puts certain threats out of commision. And I just love that move.
I know you only use favorites so I don't know what replacments you'd actually use which makes this harder. Hmm, I think some Swampert action would really help here, or even Quagsire. You need a more reliable bulky water than Gyarados (as in one that doesn't die to stone edge) and stops Cressi from using Charge Beam to boost special attack and can roar stuff. It covers Forry's weaknesses very well and will take care of that gaping gap to physical Infernape.

Actually that Flygon set reminds me of Mixpert in a way but never mind that :P

I know Scizor will hammer down Blissey and Cress (though Blissey with Thunder Wave or Flamethrower will be a big problem) and can kinda sweep.

I dunno, could you give me ALL the pokemon you would use? That way I can narrow down a solution...

EDIT: flygon can't even learn Ice Beam ._.

I'll consider Toxic, but Shadow Ball & Toxic will still end up with me stalling to death.

Second, Chomp isn't TOO tough to wipe out. With a little prediction, he can be promptly dealt with. Not to say that I'm not weak to it, not denying that, but it's one of those weaks I dont mind.

But I won't be difficult. I was thinking of a Swords Dance Passing, Wishing Leafeon. But now that I think of it, I only have a few physical users. That is to be considerd.

Anti March 1st, 2008 11:23 PM

So you're essentially saying you're not worried about Garchomp? Eh, I'd be VERY careful about that. Then again people only run Scarfchomp now because all of a sudden speed is more important than power to everybody.

Leafeon will not be helping with Infernape much. You REALLY need a bulky water here. On second thought, Grumpig could work with Nape, but even its resistances will not be enough. Hmm.

It wasn't a compliment, insult, or anything really lol. I'm just really stumped here.

Metagross would really help in the area of beating walls but falls against about everything your team is weak to. As much as I'd like to put down Scarf flygon I'll wait until later for that...it just, i dunno. It just doesn't really do much for this team IMO. the quakeslide resist is really nice though.

I'm tempted to say Registeel at this point lol

No, I'm seriously stumped. I think I'm going to sleep on it. I don't think this requires a total overhaul but my god something needs to be done, I just can't put my finger on it >:0 Man this is frustrating, usually this stuff comes easy to me...

Swampert or Quagsire seems liek the best idea though, over flygon IMO. Rock resist stuff that can take more hits than Flygon obviously, and that will certainly help in destroying Infernpae for good and also doing okay at beating Garchomp. Suicune could also help you with this or whatever you'll use. You can also give it some Toxic action to screw Cress and force Blissey to switch.

A Toxic/EQ/Ice Beam/Roar set might work. Hey, I'm trying my best...lol

sims796 March 1st, 2008 11:36 PM

Infernape? Ha, I couldn't care less about that. Flygon takes care of that one pretty easily. And Gya can as well, at least when it isn't packing Thunderpunch. IMO, they all should, but tell that to the users.


What item does SD Chomp use? If it isn't Focus Sash, I can wipe it out with Draco Meteor. If it is Sash, I have Stealth Rock. I know it can be dangerous, but just resisting it isn't the only way to go. I've tested it out, and taken out quite a few dragons with Scarf Meteor. Unless they are also running Scarf, for some reason, I'm not worried. I know what I'm saying wen I say Chomp doesn't scare me. I also know I must be cautios.

Like it or not, Scarfgon has done wonders for me, in every way. Cept for that one Weavile, but that was my fault. I knew he was gonna use Pursuit, just didn't know it could hit through U-Turn. You're gonna need more basis than just that. Oh, yeah, and I have Stone Edge over Fire Blast, forgot to edit.

I don't see what a bulky water would do, honestly. Then again, you suggest them in almost every thread :P


Leafeon isn't meant to hit, it's meant to pass.

I just had a match with Richard. Almost won, too. But, he came out on top, due to prediction on his part & carelessness on mine. He gave me a rate, said the team was fine. Well balanced, but he did talk on Gya. But I really don't like Ice Quake.Tried it, didn't like it.


The reason why you are having such trouble is because it isn't as simple as just Chomp or Nape. with caution, I can wipe those threats out. I see a weak as well, but can't put my finger on it.

Anti March 1st, 2008 11:50 PM

Well you rely on revenge killing those with Flygon to kill them. Flygon cannoy switch in to CB Close Combat from Infernape all too well and Garchomp OHKOs it. Remember, that's the definition I'm using here.

Infernape is in general easy to killthough since CB Blissey 2HKOs it I believe with Double-Edge. Not so funny now, huh? <--lol

bulky waters just always come in handy. Swampert is probably the best with rock resistance and electric immunity, not to mention some cool moves like roar, SR, E, and Hydro Pump to mash stuff with. I think Swampert would really help this team since it would give you a safe switch into Garchomp and physical Infernape (not just revenge killing) and would help with the defensive holes in your team, big time.

I don't think this team is weak to any pokemon in particular...you know what I think I'm going to log off after I post this and try and figure it out. It's 3 in the morning on the east coast so I should probably get to sleep anyways lol

sims796 March 1st, 2008 11:53 PM

Mr. S says...

Revenge is a dish best served with a MOTHA FRACKIN' DRACO METEOR, YOU S-

Whoa, whoa, no more from Mr.S. He didn't have his coffee.

We'll sleep on it. Nighty night!

Lost_Heart March 1st, 2008 11:55 PM

Weak to Tauntrados and Sub-Punch Breloom it is it is.... :P (sims knows what I mean)

sims796 March 1st, 2008 11:59 PM

That was really due to my own stupidity, not really a weak. I keep forgetting to use Raichu.

Lost_Heart March 2nd, 2008 12:02 AM

Yeah, I was just bored is all... :P

The thread below yours is that team in its entirety if you want to have a look.

Dark Azelf March 2nd, 2008 7:41 AM

You really dont have anything to touch cressy too much, as you can see, yesterday, you saw my Swords Dance Drapion, thats for beating up cressy


Two really nice sets for grumpig to screw cressy.

[email protected]
252 HP / 200 SP.DEF / 56 SP.ATT.
Calm nature
~ Calm Mind
~ Rest
~ Psychic
~ Hidden power Bug / Shadow Ball

i could see a trick set working aswell.

Or you can just add a random dark type.


I think your weak is that you dont seem to be able to hit very hard on the physical side, you have Gyarados, but bulkydos is actually a defensive pokemon, dd is only really for late game. I know this may not make sense, but you know how every team has a swords dance Ape, Swords dance chomp, DD Tar, Swords Dance weavile, you know something to put BIG MASSIVE LOVELY dents in opponents and is fast as hell , you know something capable of 6-0ing people, Gyarados as your physical sweeper when its primarily a defensive poke and every team having a counter for it, isnt going to work much.

sims796 March 2nd, 2008 4:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dark_Azelf (Post 3388122)
You really dont have anything to touch cressy too much, as you can see, yesterday, you saw my Swords Dance Drapion, thats for beating up cressy


Two really nice sets for grumpig to screw cressy.

[email protected]
252 HP / 200 SP.DEF / 56 SP.ATT.
Calm nature
~ Calm Mind
~ Rest
~ Psychic
~ Hidden power Bug / Shadow Ball

i could see a trick set working aswell.

Or you can just add a random dark type.


I think your weak is that you dont seem to be able to hit very hard on the physical side, you have Gyarados, but bulkydos is actually a defensive pokemon, dd is only really for late game. I know this may not make sense, but you know how every team has a swords dance Ape, Swords dance chomp, DD Tar, Swords Dance weavile, you know something to put BIG MASSIVE LOVELY dents in opponents and is fast as hell , you know something capable of 6-0ing people, Gyarados as your physical sweeper when its primarily a defensive poke and every team having a counter for it, isnt going to work much.

Yes, I knew it! I was stalled to death yesterday, cursing, wishing I could just plow through. I'll look for something meant to cause pain, physically.

EDIT:I'm stuck. Can someone recommend a good UU Physical sweeper OTHER than Pinser & Nidoking?

luke March 2nd, 2008 5:10 PM

Primeape but I don't think that's what you're looking for. Hitmonchan and Hitmonlee.

Anti March 2nd, 2008 5:14 PM

Gyara actually is more on the defensive side it seems. I love when people think they can DD up in front of my face right away. It's not quite that easy hehe

I'm going to suggest some CB Blissey action here. Or if you actually want to win you can run some CB Gligar or something. Torterra which you love so much runs a nasty CB operation.

EDIT: As you can see I'm not so good at UUs this gen

luke March 2nd, 2008 5:17 PM

Scyther, Absol, Arbok, Cacturne, Dodrio, Kabutops, Swellow

Anti March 2nd, 2008 5:19 PM

Swellow is awesome. Honestly sims, you might wanna put Tauros back on your team. It's pretty dang powerful and can really hurt stuff. CB Return hurts really bad. Also it ties Gengar for speed which is awesome. Any team without a normal resist pretty much dies to it.

sims796 March 2nd, 2008 6:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anti-Pop (Post 3390353)
Swellow is awesome. Honestly sims, you might wanna put Tauros back on your team. It's pretty dang powerful and can really hurt stuff. CB Return hurts really bad. Also it ties Gengar for speed which is awesome. Any team without a normal resist pretty much dies to it.

I never had Tauros.

I'll think of it. As a matter of fact, it was you and Dark Azelf who concvinced me NOT to use Tauros. This is annoying. My only real prob;em is that I don't have any real sweeping power. I don't really get swept by anything in particular. Only if I let them sweep me, like a SD Chomp. Sweepers are no real issue at all, but walls, ironically, are.

Anti March 2nd, 2008 6:34 PM

Um I'm pretty sure you made that Tauros thread. that's what I was referring to.

You insist you have trouble with walls and Tauros can really hurt a lot of them. and I'd agree that sweepers aren't a huge problem, but SD Garchomp is. We already went over that though.

Besides Chomp there aren't too many sweepers that hurt and Tauros would really be nice since it's the physical sweeper you need. Also Cress takes a beating from CB Return.

sims796 March 2nd, 2008 6:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anti-Pop (Post 3390615)
Um I'm pretty sure you made that Tauros thread. that's what I was referring to.

You insist you have trouble with walls and Tauros can really hurt a lot of them. and I'd agree that sweepers aren't a huge problem, but SD Garchomp is. We already went over that though.

Besides Chomp there aren't too many sweepers that hurt and Tauros would really be nice since it's the physical sweeper you need. Also Cress takes a beating from CB Return.

Nope. Never did.

I just said I'll think of Tauros. Regardless, no sweeper gives me any real trouble, unless I let them. Now I gotta see if I can OHKO a Garchomp the way Flygon does.

Anti March 2nd, 2008 6:54 PM

http://pokecommunity.com/showthread.php?t=120474&highlight=tauros

:0

Um you can't switch into Garchomp silly. you can only revenge kill it. But since you aren't worried about it...

The only way you'll be beating a wall like Blissey is to directly attack it. Tauros smashes it really badly. CB Return took about 45% from my max HP/max Def Weezing on Netbattle yesterday, it's pretty tough.

You're not really giving us much to work with which is making it hard to be of any help.

EDIT: As in I have no idea what your favorites are.

sims796 March 2nd, 2008 7:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anti-Pop (Post 3390675)
http://pokecommunity.com/showthread.php?t=120474&highlight=tauros

:0

Um you can't switch into Garchomp silly. you can only revenge kill it. But since you aren't worried about it...

The only way you'll be beating a wall like Blissey is to directly attack it. Tauros smashes it really badly. CB Return took about 45% from my max HP/max Def Weezing on Netbattle yesterday, it's pretty tough.

You're not really giving us much to work with which is making it hard to be of any help.

EDIT: As in I have no idea what your favorites are.

That thread wasn't about Tauros, as you saw, the idea was dissmised on the same thread.

The ONLY way that it will possibly do such damage is if it either actually gets a Swords Dance in, or if I do an unpredicted foolish switch. As if I'm too stupid to handle a weak. I know how to deal with it other than revenge killing.

Regardless, I said give me some ideas. Blueberry gave me that. I need some ideas, not a "you should really use this". I'm thinking of...

Primape, Tauros, Miltank (No IV is under 25-max in SPD & ATK), Kangaskan, Ursarang, Rapidash, Lucario (but ignore him completly).

I'm in a snippy mood, my character was cut. Don't ask.

Anti March 2nd, 2008 7:26 PM

I didn't read through the whole thread, I was just showing you where I got the idea.

Knowing how to deal with Garchomp is not enough, you need the personnel to beat it. You do not have the personnel. You cannot switch into Garchomp. Look:

Raichu: Earthquake
Flygon: Dragon Claw / Outrage
Vileplume: Fire Fang
Grumpig: STAB Dragon Claw or a SDed Dragon Claw hurts a lot
Forretress: Fire Fang
Gyarados: Cannot take more than one Dragon Claw after it switches in and Garchomp SDes. Not to mention it can't OHKO Garchomp or anything and let's not forget how common SR is.

As in you cannot counter it. I'm not doubting your ability/smarts in doing so, I'm only saying you simply can't. You have nothing that can safely switch into Garchomp (SD) at all. Remember, Garchomp is going to switch into something that simply dies to it (like that Flygon of yours stuck on Fire Blast or Earthquake) and can beat anything you send in. Prediction will not beat SD, nor will resistances alone. You need a wall that can actually stand up to it. If you don't mind the weakness then fine, but don't deny it, which you are doing.

Also when I say "you should really use" or "you should try" I'm making a suggestion. It's not like I'm saying "Use this or else." Honestly I feel like I'm being taken out of context.

Not much can beat Garchomp AND Blissey though. Something like Ludicolo can Seed blissey, survive one SD hit from Garchomp and Ice Beam it to its grave. That's the best I can think of at the moment.

sims796 March 2nd, 2008 7:40 PM

At the same time...


Forry Fire Fang-Predicted to bring out Gya, weakening it. Predicting Stone Edge (or luckily another Swords Dance) for Flygon to KO. Or so to speak. On paper, I haven't the ability, I am not denying it at all. But it isn't as severe as you say. Everyone else agrees. It's more of a "be wary of SD Chomp".

Regardless, I'm gonna need more options, as THAT is what I'm looking for. List the viable ones, as I have trouble with UUs. Ironically.

I listed a few.

luke March 2nd, 2008 7:43 PM

Do you have access to the Elemental Punches? A Primeape / Kangaskhan with Ice Punch would be sexy.

Anti March 2nd, 2008 7:46 PM

No it really is a weakness. You can't expect to outpredict it. Barring critical hits and freezes (and all the REALLY hax-ish stuff), you have to think worst-case scenario. If Garchomp outpredicts you, you get 6-0ed, sadly.

But anyways, it's tough to make recommendations when I know you only use your favorite pokemon and I haven't the faintest clue what those are.

Um...I'll just list all the physical sweepers I can think of

Garchomp
Salamence
Metagross
Heracross
Electivire (he kinda sucks though lol)
Gallade
Tauros
Ambipom
Dragonite
Rhyinferior
Tyranitar
Poliwrath
Hitmon(whatever)

I would go UU but I don't play UU this gen so I'm useless in that category >.>

EDIT: Or what Loquacity said.

sims796 March 2nd, 2008 7:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blueberry (Post 3390796)
Do you have access to the Elemental Punches? A Primeape / Kangaskhan with Ice Punch would be sexy.

Sweet Holy Mutha frick, I REALLY wish I did. However, that Miltank I proposed has Ice Punch, Max ATK & SPD IV, and all other IV stats above 25.

EDIT:He'll have to outpredict me 6 times in a row. It'll only really hurt if I dang well let it. I've battled too many competant players to not realize how to use these pokes to hanlde that weakness. There is a reason that no other rater ever mentioned this weak. Not to say it isn't hard, but not impossible, as if I was desprate.

Anti March 2nd, 2008 7:48 PM

I think you need pokemon emerald to get the elemental punches on a lot of these things though. You have that?

luke March 2nd, 2008 7:49 PM

What about Machamp. He's bulky, can have the Elemental Punches bred onto him, and he's powerful.

If I had Wi-Fi, I'd breed a Pokemon on Emerald for you and get it the right punch.

Anti March 2nd, 2008 7:51 PM

Machamp is awesome. CB beats everything.

If you wanna use Machamp you should use CB because 130 base Atk + adamant + CB + STAB + 120 power close Combat + 252 Atk EVs = DEATH! AHHH!!!!!

No really it's awesome. It could probably survive one Garchomp hit (if you EV it right) and could OHKO with Ice Punch. Hooray!

sims796 March 2nd, 2008 7:58 PM

Not Champ, but your trying. He once gave me a nightmare when I was younger :'(.

Regardless, I'm thinking of Tauros or Miltank. I wish it had some sort of elemental move on Tauros. Of course, I already have an EV trained Miltank, with Ice Punch. Gave Richard a run for his money. Until he realized it was Banded, that was my fault. I'd replaace the item.

EDIT: With Flygon gone, I do need a reliable way to remove Chomp. Flygon could either revenge kill, or come in with proper prediction. With im in the box, I'll need someone else. As said, I know Chomp can be a problem, but I do know how to deal with it. Too many great players used it, and I toppled most of them. Granted, some still won, but I know enough about it to wipe it out without much problems.

But with Gon gone, Chomp is more threatening.

luke March 2nd, 2008 8:32 PM

Get over your fears woman! >:O Machamp would fit pretty nicely in this team.

sims796 March 2nd, 2008 8:58 PM

Ow. Right in the coin purse...

I'll think of it, but I'm thinking of the possibilities of Tauros more. How would he fare? I mean, Anti gave some great points, I was already breeding on (a long while ago) and I only have enough time to breed for one poke per visit to Brooklyn.

Machamp is going in another team I was planning, a Trick Room team. Be ready, I'm gonna post it up tommorra.

Lost_Heart March 3rd, 2008 3:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sims796 (Post 3390599)
I never had Tauros.

I'll think of it. As a matter of fact, it was you and Dark Azelf who concvinced me NOT to use Tauros. This is annoying. My only real prob;em is that I don't have any real sweeping power. I don't really get swept by anything in particular. Only if I let them sweep me, like a SD Chomp. Sweepers are no real issue at all, but walls, ironically, are.


OMG! I love Rock Head CBRelicanth.

[email protected] Band
Adamant
252 Atk, 228 Spd, 28 Def
Rock Head

Head Smash
Double-Edge
Waterfall
Earthquake

It is slow, but I think mine topped out at 171 Speed, although I believe I ran less speed. I just loved using it on Ooka, and it has run through plenty of teams.

Others are:

Scyther, Pinsir, Nidoking, Primeape, Kabutops, Cacturne, Dodrio, Swellow, Absol (:P) etc.

But yeah, loving some CBRelicanth action. ;)

~L_H

Dark Azelf March 3rd, 2008 5:03 AM

Sims, D0 J00 li3k Ch01c3 B4nd Mudkipz ?

No honestly, Few people will expect Swampert to hit this hard, and with a potential Attack stat of 525 with Choice Band. It beats up Garchomp pretty good aswell.

[email protected] band
252 HP / 252 ATT / 6 Def
Adamant Nature
~ Earthquake
~ Ice Punch
~ Stone Edge / hammer Arm /.Focus Punch
~ Waterfall / hammer Arm / Focus Punch

This may help with your Garchomp Problems.

Im also thinking this

[email protected] Band
252 ATT / 252 SPEED / 6 HP
Jolly Nature
- Flare Blitz
- Close Combat
- U-Turn / Thunderpunch
- Stone Edge / Thunderpunch

Dunno, but theres alot of break your face moves.




Although SD Lucario would help your problems with Cressy and stall, it gets Crunch =),

Also Mamoswine would help aswell with your Chomp problem.


@Lost heart, Relicanth is frikkin Uber, i lol'd so hard when my opponent switched his Skarmory in on a Choice Band Head Smash and then his Suicune met the same demise =p

sims796 March 3rd, 2008 10:37 AM

I don't wanna get into too much detail, but let's just say that I can't use Swampert & Infernape--especially Infernape, to my dissapointment. SD Lucario seems like it has possibilities. So far, my options are:

Lucario
Tauros
CB Blissey
Primape
Relicanth
Wigglytuff--the strongest option thus far.
Miltank w/Ice Punch
Kangaskan


Now, hypothetically, who would have to go for Torterra to rejoin? Hypothetically, of course.

Which one of these can better Attack, and which one would have a better chance at taking out prime sweepers such as Mence & Chomp? Miltank seems nice. It can come in on predicted Fire moves, and it has Max Speed IV's. I should really thank Samson for that. It shouldn't have much trouble against any other sweepers. I'm really thinking Mooey.

EDIT:Oh, and what would bew a good item for Chu to have OTHER than Focus Sash? Life Orb? It'll be great if he was faster for Life Orb. I don't want Scarf, he hasn't the power, & depends on Nasty Plot. Sash is great, but useless on Sandy teams. And Ghost types makes him harder to play.


Spoiler:
Quote:

Originally Posted by Anti-Pop (Post 3390806)
No it really is a weakness. You can't expect to outpredict it. Barring critical hits and freezes (and all the REALLY hax-ish stuff), you have to think worst-case scenario. If Garchomp outpredicts you, you get 6-0ed, sadly.

The more I look at this part, the less sense it makes. Unless I make some truly stupid choices, worst case senario is a revenge kill. It is very easy to outpredict when you know what it has. Especially since Gon has both a Scarf & Draco Meteor, which is more or less an OHKO it. He has a great possibility to come in on predicted Earthquakes, for a KO of his own. This is just a cheap example. He is not this team's most crippling weakness, as your making it seem. Buuuut...without Flygon, he's much harder to take out. I understand I must be wary of Chomp, but it's nothing I can't handle. I also know that one wrong move=game over.

sims796 March 19th, 2008 10:36 AM

Quote:

Well, the system died, but my final choice was Sceptile. I've made up my mind on this.

[email protected] Orb***Geico(Switch your Car Insurance, RIGHT NAOW!)
Nature:Jolly
EV:252 ATK, 252 SPD, 6 SP.DEF/HP/Who Cares?
Leaf Blade
Earthquake
Dragon Claw
Swords Dance
Physical Sweeper. Well, I needed a hard hitter, so I thought Lucario. But I wanted a grass type, so I thought Breelom. But I wanted speed, so...Sceptile! Physical, that is. Hits just about all but Skar, Zong, Tangrowth, but those are dealt with by others.


[email protected]***Dragoon
Nature:Adamant
Waterfall/Ice Fang
Stone Edge/EQ
Dragon Dance
Taunt
EV:212 HP/16 ATK/180 DEF/100 SPD
Bulky Sweeper. Standard Tauntdos. Painful when played right, although I may give him a wii bit more ATK. Might try out Icequake.


[email protected] Sash***Sparks
Nature:Timid
T-bolt
Grass Knot
Focus Blast
Nasty Plot
EV:MAX SP.ATK/MAX SPD/6 SP.DEF
Special Sweeper. He abuses Focus Sash for powerful moves. Wish he had a bit more speed, but meh. I really hate Focus Blast, missing every two moves or so, but I have no choice.


[email protected]***Comet
Nature:Relaxed
Rest
EQ
Rapid Spin
Stealth Rock
EV:MAX HP/88 ATK/164 DEF
Physical Wall. Also my Spinner, & Trap setter. Because he is my prime wall, Explosion is not an option. Stealth Rock over Spikes for I dislike Sashers more. This is a matter of opinion, so.


[email protected]***Lumas
Nature:Calm
Psychic
Calm Mind
Rest
Magic Coat/Shadow Ball
EV:MAX HP/52 SP.ATK/200 SP.DEF
Special Wall. With Rest, & Aromatherapy, it makes it a hell of alot easier for him to wall. If I give him Shadow Ball, can he handle Cressy? Magic Coat is just fun to play. It always is. I got rid of that God awful inaccurate non-chargin Chage Beam.


[email protected] Sludge***Petals
Nature:Calm
Energy Ball
Hidden Power [ICE]
Aromatherapy
Sleep Powder
EV:244 HP/90 SP.ATK/140 SP.DEF/30 DEF
Cleric. My team favorite! He is also a limited mixed wall. I discovered this when I accidentally gave him DEF EV's while training him in SP.DEF. His typing allows him much survivability. Although he has many weaknesses, not all are seen that often. You can kiss my arse, he's in!


Spoiler:
[S]This is getting an update. Cressila always causes me grief, due to the fact that I can't hit hard enough. The commom sweepers, Garchomp, Salamence, T-tar, are not a problem, they are all easy to take out. However, it's the defensive pokes that annoy me. I lack the ability to KO hard. I won't rebreed Flygon, so no Choice Band. But Cressila really annooys me. Will Shadow Ball handle it? I mean, Grumpig can stall Cressy, but to an extent. He did a great job stalling one today, but couldn't "keep up". Maybe if it had Shadow Ball...


But I don't know what to replace. I think Grumpig is a decent Nape counter, but only if he has Reflect? I dunno. It's those walls with incredible HP that annoys me to no end. Like Blissey, but not as severe, as Gya can handle it.

I would also like to make room for Torterra, but...

Maybe I need another wall, or something.
[S]

Any glaring weaknesses, that CAN'T be revenge KOed?
EDIT: Sorry to bump this up, when this seems done, but do I have a Gya weakness? I cannot take it down if it outspeeds Sceptile after a dance or so. Even if Sceptile goes first (after he has gotten in one Dance), I haven't the power to take it down without getting in one SD, and even then I can't SD AND survive his next boosted hit. Forry can wall, but can only sit there while he charges up. And Raichu may be able to revenge kill, but then he's gone, since he must abouse Sash. Remember, this is if he already has a Dance in.

So what can I do? My own Gya might be able to handle it (especially if they use Waterfall/Ice Fang), but of course, players are starting to carry Stone Edge. So Sceptile can't beat it. If Tile had Thunderpunch, I'd use it on the spot. But I can't get to it.

Dark Azelf March 19th, 2008 10:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sims796 (Post 3413262)
EDIT: Sorry to bump this up, when this seems done, but do I have a Gya weakness? I cannot take it down if it outspeeds Sceptile after a dance or so. Even if Sceptile goes first (after he has gotten in one Dance), I haven't the power to take it down without getting in one SD, and even then I can't SD AND survive his next boosted hit. Forry can wall, but can only sit there while he charges up. And Raichu may be able to revenge kill, but then he's gone, since he must abouse Sash. Remember, this is if he already has a Dance in.

So what can I do? My own Gya might be able to handle it (especially if they use Waterfall/Ice Fang), but of course, players are starting to carry Stone Edge. So Sceptile can't beat it. If Tile had Thunderpunch, I'd use it on the spot. But I can't get to it.

Pssttt..... get a starmie.


or you can put Zap Cannon on Forry, its hilarious, ive been using it as of late, not too accurate, but it will hit before it beats you.

sims796 March 19th, 2008 10:53 AM

Now, I've been thinking of Starmie. What would be a good set? The Spinner? Then I could use Bronzong. I don't know.

I hate lucky, high risk moves. Absolutely hate em. However, I would use it on Forry, simply because it has the defenses to use it. So I'll consider it. I wish I could give Raichu another move other than Focus Blast, because it misses at the worst parts.

Dark Azelf March 19th, 2008 11:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sims796 (Post 3413282)
Now, I've been thinking of Starmie. What would be a good set? The Spinner? Then I could use Bronzong. I don't know.

I hate lucky, high risk moves. Absolutely hate em. However, I would use it on Forry, simply because it has the defenses to use it. So I'll consider it. I wish I could give Raichu another move other than Focus Blast, because it misses at the worst parts.

There are a few lovely sets for you.

[email protected]
172 HP / 120 SP.ATT / 216 SPEED
Timid Nature
Trait : Natural Cure
- Thunderbolt
- Surf
- Recover
- Rapid Spin

Thats the spinner.


[email protected]
40 HP / 252 SP.ATT / 216 SPEED
Timid Nature
Trait : Natural Cure
- Thunderbolt
- Surf
- Recover
- ice Beam

Counter star.


Both the above sets needs 31 Speed ivs so you can outrun gengar with only 216 speed evs <<Dont worry, ill breed you one from my own starmie, if this is a problem, mine has 31 in speed by all chances =)


[email protected] Specs
6 HP / 252 SP.ATT / 252 SPEED
Modest Nature
Trait : Natural Cure
- ice Beam
- Thunderbolt
- hydro pump / Surf
- Grass Knot / Psychic.

Modest specs hydro pump is capable of doing like 35% to blissey and snorlax fears it =o

[email protected] Scarf
90 HP / 252 SP.ATT / 168 SPEED
Modest Nature
Trait : Natural Cure
- ice Beam
- Thunderbolt
- hydro pump / Surf
- Hidden power Fighting / Grass Knot / Psychic

Revenge kill, smash that Scarf garchomp locked into outrage, lol at that weavile who thinks its faster with HP Fighting. Grass Knot and Psychic are fillers.


Think you could Focus Punch/Substitute/ grass Knot or Encore/Thunderbolt Raichu <<Something along those [email protected] Nature ?

sims796 March 19th, 2008 11:16 AM

That would be a great help if you could breed Starmie.

The problem is, I am unable to breed Raichu at the moment. So I am stuck with Timid, with a crappy Hidden Power. At least until I get to Brooklyn for the weekend. Plus, with a fickle Base 100 Speed, wouldn't Hasty be better?

I was thinking about Slowking. How would that fare?

EDIT: Not that I will, but if I WAS to replace Gya, what would be a good Swampert set?

[email protected]
Nature:Relaxed
EV:
Hydro Pump
Ice Beam
EQ
Roar

Dark Azelf March 19th, 2008 11:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sims796 (Post 3413324)
That would be a great help if you could breed Starmie.

The problem is, I am unable to breed Raichu at the moment. So I am stuck with Timid, with a crappy Hidden Power. At least until I get to Brooklyn for the weekend. Plus, with a fickle Base 100 Speed, wouldn't Hasty be better?

I was thinking about Slowking. How would that fare?

EDIT: Not that I will, but if I WAS to replace Gya, what would be a good Swampert set?

[email protected]
Nature:Relaxed
EV: 240 HP / 212 DEF / 56 SP.ATT
Hydro Pump
Ice Beam
EQ
Roar.

Filled in the blank evs lol, but yeah, that movesets fine, mixpert ftw ! No honestly it really is win, mine survived a Draco meteor from a specs mence, although it wrecked it, it still survived, which i find amazing, with no sp.def evs and a Relaxed Nature =0


Slowking ?, what does that accomplish.

Also, yeah, Hasty is fine i suppose on Raichu, but theres not really alot between 299 speed with mild and 328 with Hasty/Naive speed thats particularly threatening, however if you wish to outrun base 90 and 95 speed pokemon hasty is viable.


Starmie ill try and get done, quickly, itll give me something to do, besides that damn HAX battle tower lawl. Ill try and get you an Encore/Sub/Thunderbolt/Focus Punch Raichu aswell, either from smogon or ill breed it myself, i need one myself anyways so ill clone it xp setting a sub up and encoring no-damage moves it fun, you can delete Encore for grass knot if you wish but itll be there for if ya want it.. Oh, yeah, i owe you a Vulpix aswell dont i ?



Which set are you interested for for starmie btw, so i know the details and stuff for breeding? What do ya want on raichu , Mild, Hasty, naive, or Rash ?

sims796 March 19th, 2008 12:00 PM

Rather, instead of Raichu, could you instead breed a Mudkip? I can do Raichu in my spare time (and I want my original ID on Chu), but I have no acess to Mudkip at the time, and I don't have time for Starmie at all. I can do Raichu, since I already have one with flawless speed & great SP.Atk (& Flawless HP :laugh:). This would be a great help.

Swampert should answer my Gya problems. Since it can survive anything Gya has, I can then counter with Roar (& Raichu can take it from there). Unless it Taunts me and it probably won't.

EDIT:Oh, whichever starmie you feel is best. Well, anything except Scarf. I have Sceptile handling Speed. And I was thinking King as a SP.Wall, but not so much now. Yeah, the speed for Chu is important for me, it allows me to hanlde Mence, and lazy Garchomp trainers.

Dark Azelf March 19th, 2008 12:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sims796 (Post 3413457)
Rather, instead of Raichu, could you instead breed a Mudkip? I can do Raichu in my spare time (and I want my original ID on Chu), but I have no acess to Mudkip at the time, and I don't have time for Starmie at all. I can do Raichu, since I already have one with flawless speed & great SP.Atk (& Flawless HP :laugh:). This would be a great help.

Swampert should answer my Gya problems. Since it can survive anything Gya has, I can then counter with Roar (& Raichu can take it from there). Unless it Taunts me and it probably won't.

EDIT:Oh, whichever starmie you feel is best. Well, anything except Scarf. I have Sceptile handling Speed. And I was thinking King as a SP.Wall, but not so much now. Yeah, the speed for Chu is important for me, it allows me to hanlde Mence, and lazy Garchomp trainers.

Sure, i have a great swampy, so i can do that no probs. DO J00 LIEK MUDKIPZ ?? <lol


Ill breed you an awesome Timid Starmie, and you can use whichever set you want for it.


In all honesty Gyara kinda counters swampy =X, unless you run HP Electric or Stone Edge......

sims796 March 19th, 2008 12:17 PM

All I need for it is to have Roar. I'll be set then. I'm not scared of "Gya", but if it Dances, at least twice, I'm in trouble. I need something able to switch in & scare it away with a mighty Roar. After that, Raichu can take it out, or Sceptilce will have a chance.

EDIT:YESH, I JOO LEIK MUKIPZ!!1!!!!

Dark Azelf March 19th, 2008 12:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sims796 (Post 3413502)
All I need for it is to have Roar. I'll be set then. I'm not scared of "Gya", but if it Dances, at least twice, I'm in trouble. I need something able to switch in & scare it away with a mighty Roar. After that, Raichu can take it out, or Sceptilce will have a chance.

EDIT:YESH, I JOO LEIK MUKIPZ!!1!!!!

Gyarados uses Taunt !!

Swampert cant use Roar after the Taunt =X


Hopefully starmie can handle that though.

sims796 March 19th, 2008 1:09 PM

Quote:

Well, the system died, but my final choice was Sceptile. I've made up my mind on this.

[email protected] Orb***Geico(Switch your Car Insurance, RIGHT NAOW!)
Nature:Jolly
EV:252 ATK, 252 SPD, 6 SP.DEF/HP/Who Cares?
Leaf Blade
Earthquake
Dragon Claw
Swords Dance
Physical Sweeper. Well, I needed a hard hitter, so I thought Lucario. But I wanted a grass type, so I thought Breelom. But I wanted speed, so...Sceptile! Physical, that is. Hits just about all but Skar, Zong, Tangrowth, but those are dealt with by others.


[email protected]***Dragoon
Nature:Adamant
Waterfall/Ice Fang
Stone Edge/EQ
Dragon Dance
Taunt
EV:212 HP/16 ATK/180 DEF/100 SPD
Bulky Sweeper. Standard Tauntdos. Painful when played right, although I may give him a wii bit more ATK. Might try out Icequake.


[email protected]***Cypress/Slough/Bayou-which sounds better?
Nature:Relaxed
EV:EV: 240 HP / 212 DEF / 56 SP.ATT
Hydro Pump
Ice Beam
Earthquake
Roar
Bulky Water. Really, not a point in ATK? How good will it be physically, then? This is great, now I can feel safe using Lefties on Forry over Shed Shell. I can afford to lose Forry, with a bulky water as backup.. Not as my main wall, but as back up.


[email protected] Sash***Sparks
Nature:Timid
T-bolt
Grass Knot
Focus Blast
Nasty Plot
EV:MAX SP.ATK/MAX SPD/6 SP.DEF
Special Sweeper. He abuses Focus Sash for powerful moves. Wish he had a bit more speed, but meh. I really hate Focus Blast, missing every two moves or so, but I have no choice.


[email protected]***Comet
Nature:Relaxed
Rest
EQ
Rapid Spin
Stealth Rock
EV:MAX HP/88 ATK/164 DEF
Physical Wall. Also my Spinner, & Trap setter. Because he is my prime wall, Explosion is not an option. Stealth Rock over Spikes for I dislike Sashers more. This is a matter of opinion, so.


[email protected]***Lumas
Nature:Calm
Psychic
Calm Mind
Rest
Magic Coat/Shadow Ball
EV:MAX HP/52 SP.ATK/200 SP.DEF
Special Wall. With Rest, & Aromatherapy, it makes it a hell of alot easier for him to wall. If I give him Shadow Ball, can he handle Cressy? Magic Coat is just fun to play. It always is. I got rid of that God awful inaccurate non-chargin Chage Beam.


[email protected] Sludge***Petals
Nature:Calm
Energy Ball
Hidden Power [ICE]
Aromatherapy
Sleep Powder
EV:244 HP/90 SP.ATK/140 SP.DEF/30 DEF
Cleric. My team favorite! He is also a limited mixed wall. I discovered this when I accidentally gave him DEF EV's while training him in SP.DEF. His typing allows him much survivability. Although he has many weaknesses, not all are seen that often. You can kiss my arse, he's in!
So, how does it look now?

Without a point in attack, how good is it?

Dark Azelf March 19th, 2008 1:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sims796 (Post 3413660)
So, how does it look now?

Without a point in attack, how good is it?

Ok, but Wheres your Gyarados counter ?


Seriously, you cant do anything to it... Its gonna taunt the hell out of swampy.


And by removing Gyarados, CB Hera says hi !

sims796 March 19th, 2008 1:29 PM

Maybe I should give Swampy Stone Edge?

Ah, so I can't lose Gya for Swamp. Maybe I can give Zap Cannon to Forry. This is difficult. I mean, Raichu can handle Gya, but I lose Raichu in the process. Man, this is hard.

Dark Azelf March 19th, 2008 1:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sims796 (Post 3413727)
Maybe I should give Swampy Stone Edge?

Ah, so I can't lose Gya for Swamp. Maybe I can give Zap Cannon to Forry. This is difficult. I mean, Raichu can handle Gya, but I lose Raichu in the process. Man, this is hard.

I know, countering stuff this gen and in this metagame is really hard, im often made angry because i miss certain threat, and then when i remember them im like disfndnfdjngfdg XD


Starmie w/Recover/ice Beam/Thunderbolt/Surf
Sceptile / Raichu < CB Raichu ??
Vileplume
Gyarados.
Forry
Grumpig

How bout that ? It covers weaknesses Very well.

sims796 March 19th, 2008 2:34 PM

Damn damn damn damn.

I don't wanna choose between Sceptile & CB Raichu. They both are so great.

Well, if you could breed Staryu Mudkip, it'll be easier to decide.

Ah, if you could name Staryu "Twinkle", Mudkip "Marsh", & Vulpix "Foxy", that'll be nice.

This is difficult because I'm not trying to just make a team, I'm trying to make a team that I can say "This is my signature team. When you think sims796, you'll think this team.". Know what I mean? This is tough, because I don't wanna simply settle on anything.

I might borrow my friend's Emerald just to get t-Punch on Sceptile.

Dark Azelf March 19th, 2008 2:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sims796 (Post 3413973)
Damn damn damn damn.

I don't wanna choose between Sceptile & CB Raichu. They both are so great.

Well, if you could breed Staryu Mudkip, it'll be easier to decide.

Ah, if you could name Staryu "Twinkle", Mudkip "Marsh", & Vulpix "Foxy", that'll be nice.

This is difficult because I'm not trying to just make a team, I'm trying to make a team that I can say "This is my signature team. When you think sims796, you'll think this team.". Know what I mean? This is tough, because I don't wanna simply settle on anything.

I might borrow my friend's Emerald just to get t-Punch on Sceptile.

Yeah, i know what you mean, Its kinda hard to use favorites and cover up weaknesses....

Ill nickname the pokes for ya though....

sims796 March 19th, 2008 5:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sims796 (Post 3384463)

Originally Posted by sims796
[email protected] Orb***Geico(Switch your Car Insurance, RIGHT NAOW!)
Nature:Jolly
EV:252 ATK, 252 SPD, 6 SP.DEF/HP/Who Cares?
Leaf Blade
Thunderpunch
Dragon Claw
Swords Dance
Physical Sweeper. Well, I needed a hard hitter, so I thought Lucario. But I wanted a grass type, so I thought Breelom. But I wanted speed, so...Sceptile! Physical, that is. Hits just about all but Skar, Zong, Tangrowth, but those are dealt with by others. With T-Punch, I can now cause much havok to Gya who will otherwise cause me much greif. If it gets in one Dragon Dance, I


[email protected]***Dragoon
Nature:Adamant
Waterfall/Ice Fang
Stone Edge/EQ
Dragon Dance
Taunt
EV:212 HP/16 ATK/180 DEF/100 SPD
Bulky Sweeper. Standard Tauntdos. Painful when played right, although I may give him a wii bit more ATK. Might try out Icequake.


[email protected] Sash***Sparks
Nature:Timid/Hasty
T-bolt
Grass Knot
Focus Blast/Focus Punch
Nasty Plot
EV:MAX SP.ATK/MAX SPD/6 SP.DEF
Special Sweeper. He abuses Focus Sash for powerful moves. Wish he had a bit more speed, but meh. I really hate Focus Blast, missing every two moves or so, but I have no choice. Currently breeding a Hasty Chu, that has Focus Punch. For surprise lissey hits. With proper prediction, I can 2HKO Bliss.


[email protected]***Comet
Nature:Relaxed
Rest
EQ
Rapid Spin
Stealth Rock
EV:MAX HP/88 ATK/164 DEF
Physical Wall. Also my Spinner, & Trap setter. Because he is my prime wall, Explosion is not an option. Stealth Rock over Spikes for I dislike Sashers more. This is a matter of opinion, so.


[email protected]***Lumas
Nature:Calm
Psychic
Calm Mind
Rest
Magic Coat/Shadow Ball
EV:MAX HP/52 SP.ATK/200 SP.DEF
Special Wall. With Rest, & Aromatherapy, it makes it a hell of alot easier for him to wall. If I give him Shadow Ball, can he handle Cressy? Magic Coat is just fun to play. It always is. I got rid of that God awful inaccurate non-chargin Chage Beam.


[email protected] Sludge***Petals
Nature:Calm
Energy Ball
Hidden Power [ICE]
Aromatherapy
Sleep Powder
EV:244 HP/90 SP.ATK/140 SP.DEF/30 DEF
Cleric. My team favorite! He is also a limited mixed wall. I discovered this when I accidentally gave him DEF EV's while training him in SP.DEF. His typing allows him much survivability. Although he has many weaknesses, not all are seen that often. You can kiss my arse, he's in!


Any glaring weaknesses, that CAN'T be revenge KOed?

Well, I've fixed up my weaknesses. Or at least most. Gya is not as scary of a threat anymore with T-Punch. Dragon Dance T-tar can cause some issues, so Sceptile must be kept alive. Chomp can't handle too many Dragon Claws from Scep either. Getting in at least one Swords Dance won't be too hard at all.

Ársa March 19th, 2008 6:06 PM

I'm going to say that ScarfTran with HP ELECTRIC can cause you some issues. Everytime it comes in, it is able to KO something at the least. (Other than Grumpig, but I don't know what it can do in return...)

~T_S

sims796 March 19th, 2008 7:13 PM

Grumpig stops Heatran cold. Dead cold. With a resistance to fire, it can proceed to Calm Mind up, and figt back with Psycic. not very effective, but painful with CM.

On top of that, Scarf makes it easier to take out.

Ársa March 19th, 2008 7:17 PM

Some actually run Dark Pulse. Another note is that once it has done what it likes, say hi to explosion. Just a thought though. I cannot really see much else. x_X

~T_S

sims796 March 19th, 2008 7:20 PM

Meh, nothing too serious, if it must resort to Explosion. It is the only way to really hurt me. I'll just have to finish him fast, before he does too much damage.

Ársa March 19th, 2008 7:24 PM

To true. Other than that, I cannot really see anything.

The current battle I am in is making me realize how scary good Jirachi is.... (4-1, and now 2-1. Jirachi is paralyzed and tearing through him. ;))

~T_S

sims796 March 19th, 2008 7:30 PM

I frackin hate hax. Thats why I have Magic Coat.

Samson March 19th, 2008 11:20 PM

ah so you stuck with magic coat. that oughta be fun ^.^ it's just a toughie because grumpig is ideal with reflect + twave. but no! i won't bother you with such thoughts.

anywho, it looks ok. let's hope sceptile doesn't immediately die =(

sims796 March 20th, 2008 2:31 AM

Thank you, thank you!

Yeah, I know T-Wave is most effective, but Magic Coat is so damn fun. It's a shame it's wifi, I'd love to see te look on their faces when their Toxic/T-Wave/Hyponosis/Metal Sound is relflected.

I'm thinking or a Sceptile Starter.

Nightofshadow March 21st, 2008 2:08 AM

Yay a team that isnt covered in OU! I love Sims's teams! *Reserves space to give advice later on*

sims796 March 21st, 2008 2:18 AM

Meh, I play with what interests me. If every poke I like was OU, I'd use nothing but OU. If every poke I like was BL/UU, tose will be on my team. I draw the line at uber, but I'm not going to use something because it's popular, and I'm not going to NOT use it because it's popular.

I liked Blissey before I got into the metagame.

Anti March 21st, 2008 10:00 AM

About Heatran, the ones that carry Dark Pulse are a joke, and only about 1% of them actually do. Grumpig can just stall it out of PP for any Fire move if it is foolish enough to stay. Even MS Heatran is eaten up. Also if Heatran blows up to kill itself you did counter it :P

The team is looking pretty good, I'm blowing out my hearing right now with the end of Behind Blue Eyes with the volume at full blast, I'll get back to this later lol

sims796 March 28th, 2008 8:42 AM

Sorry to bump this back up, but I need to know this. T-tar has been causing me much grief. Specifically the ones that carry Stone Edge & Fire Blast (which are less than I thougt). I need to know, since Forry won't be able to counter it, would Gya be able to counter it? I understand if Gya comes in on Fire Blast, then yeah, but he can't safely switch in on Stone Edge & hope to counter. Swampert would be a surefire counter, but there is no one that I want to replace.

The ones I wouldn't mind replacing are Forretress & Gya. Gya is my answer to Hera, so maybe Forretress? Can I? Obviously, Vileplume would be the best one to lose, but you can go to hell. He stays. Do I open up any major weaknesses by replacing Forry for Swampert? Other than a loss of a spinner, of course. Or maybe Donphan would work better? With this set:

[email protected]/Choice Scarf/Choice Specs(CS is teh best)
Nature:Impish/Adamant/Modest(IMO, the best nature)
EV:252 HP, ???
Rapid Spin
EQ
Ice Shard
Stealth Rock/Roar/Rest

I think he is just what I need.

In reality, it's those Life Orb'ed Mixed sets that causes me the most grief. Dark Azelf showed me that if it gets a speed boost, I can't do anything but try to play it with Forry & Gya. I'd like Roar, but Rest seems more practical. If I can catch it on the Baton Pass, I can counter right-especially with Roar.

Dark Azelf March 28th, 2008 9:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sims796 (Post 3442300)
Sorry to bump this back up, but I need to know this. T-tar has been causing me much grief. Specifically the ones that carry Stone Edge & Fire Blast (which are less than I thougt). I need to know, since Forry won't be able to counter it, would Gya be able to counter it? I understand if Gya comes in on Fire Blast, then yeah, but he can't safely switch in on Stone Edge & hope to counter. Swampert would be a surefire counter, but there is no one that I want to replace.

The ones I wouldn't mind replacing are Forretress & Gya. Gya is my answer to Hera, so maybe Forretress? Can I? Obviously, Vileplume would be the best one to lose, but you can go to hell. He stays. Do I open up any major weaknesses by replacing Forry for Swampert? Other than a loss of a spinner, of course. Or maybe Donphan would work better? With this set:

[email protected]/Choice Scarf/Choice Specs(CS is teh best)
Nature:Impish/Adamant/Modest(IMO, the best nature)
EV:252 HP, ???
Rapid Spin
EQ
Ice Shard
Stealth Rock/Roar/Rest

I think he is just what I need.

In reality, it's those Life Orb'ed Mixed sets that causes me the most grief. Dark Azelf showed me that if it gets a speed boost, I can't do anything but try to play it with Forry & Gya. I'd like Roar, but Rest seems more practical. If I can catch it on the Baton Pass, I can counter right-especially with Roar.



T-tars Ice Beam kind dominates donphan =X.

Even more so, the poke i use to pass speed with actually has HP ice or Grass << I forgot, heck i dont even know, i replaced it with Sub though, so ill let you off XP

I dunno, bulky waters seem to work the best, that swampert that i traded you seems ideal NOT Gyarados though lol, sometimes they pack stone edge.

The t-tar covers Flying, Ground, Steel, Psychic, Ghost, Bug, Grass, Dragon, Fire and Ice. plus Electric and Rock if you use Earthquake.

Something not weak to those. I have the perfect poke for you, i didnt want to give it you, due to you using it on me >=[, but this dude was commonly used in advance to counter Tyraniboah, so it counters my Life Orb t-tar aswell.


Anyways, This is my own Anti Spin-Block Hitmontop

[email protected]
252 HP / 100 ATT / 100 DEF / 56 SP.DEF
Impish nature
Trait : Technician
- Pursuit
- Toxic
- Close Combat
- Rapid Spin

Feel free to use intimidate, but i love hitting Gengar with a Technician Pursuit, besides, it has great coverage with Close Combat. Toxic wears down bulky waters and Dusknoir and Spiritomb =).Very cool t-tar counter also, due to its bulk.

Spoiler:

[email protected] Orb
216 Atk / 96 Sp.A / 196 Speed
Naughty nature
~ Crunch
~ Earthquake / Stone Edge
~ Fire Blast
~ Ice Beam

Lawlz XD


sims796 March 28th, 2008 9:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dark_Azelf (Post 3442390)
T-tars Ice Beam kind dominates donphan =X.

Even more so, the poke i use to pass speed with actually has HP ice or Grass << I forgot, heck i dont even know, i replaced it with Sub though, so ill let you off XP

I dunno, bulky waters seem to work the best, that swampert that i traded you seems ideal NOT Gyarados though lol, sometimes they pack stone edge.

The t-tar covers Flying, Ground, Steel, Psychic, Ghost, Bug, Grass, Dragon, Fire and Ice. plus Electric and Rock if you use Earthquake.

Something not weak to those. I have the perfect poke for you, i didnt want to give it you, due to you using it on me >=[, but this dude was commonly used in advance to counter Tyraniboah, so it counters my Life Orb t-tar aswell.


Anyways, This is my own Anti Spin-Block Hitmontop

[email protected]
252 HP / 100 ATT / 100 DEF / 56 SP.DEF
Impish nature
Trait : Technician
- Pursuit
- Toxic
- Close Combat
- Rapid Spin

Feel free to use intimidate, but i love hitting Gengar with a Technician Pursuit, besides, it has great coverage with Close Combat. Toxic wears down bulky waters and Dusknoir and Spiritomb =).Very cool t-tar counter also, due to its bulk.

Spoiler:

[email protected] Orb
216 Atk / 96 Sp.A / 196 Speed
Naughty nature
~ Crunch
~ Earthquake / Stone Edge
~ Fire Blast
~ Ice Beam

But wouldn't I need a new wall? That's why I thought Swampert wouldn't be such a huge loss. I would love to use Hitmontop, but remember, Forry goes for it to stay in. So would I lose a huge deal if I use it over Hitmontop?

Dark Azelf March 28th, 2008 9:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sims796 (Post 3442416)
But wouldn't I need a new wall? That's why I thought Swampert wouldn't be such a huge loss. I would love to use Hitmontop, but remember, Forry goes for it to stay in. So would I lose a huge deal if I use it over Hitmontop?

Well Donphan kinda sucks as a spinner imo, as soon as they send out a Ghost your screwed, spinners must be able to cope with spin blockers, Starmie can, Tenta can, Forry can somewhat, but its screwed against sturdy ghosts and Rotom. Donphan cant do anything, again why i love Toxic on both the dudes.


Try Gliscor as a wall, covers hera.


Gliscor
Hitmontop

Grumpig
VilePlume
Sceptile
Raichu


ftw !!! That actually covers weaknesses well. Hitmons got weavile, so you dont need to worry.

sims796 March 28th, 2008 9:37 AM

I really didn't wanna replace both...

Isn't there anything else that can deal with Hera while walling? Or am I doomed to use Gliscor? I mean, I don't mind, but, any other options?

Dark Azelf March 28th, 2008 9:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sims796 (Post 3442454)
I really didn't wanna replace both...

Isn't there anything else that can deal with Hera while walling? Or am I doomed to use Gliscor? I mean, I don't mind, but, any other options?




Tbh, Gyarados is fine and dandy Hera counter, i dunno if youve ever faced a Choice band one, yeah, it dominates DOs. Ask King Dragun, last time i battled him my CB Heracross's megahorn 2hko'd his Salamence, even though its resisted. It really starts to wear down on gyara with repeated switch ins, especially if it predicts and uses stone edge.

Gliscor and Weezing, Aerial Ace nidoqueen, Fire Punch Dusknoir are probably the best counters around.

Anti March 28th, 2008 9:47 AM

Heracross is walled by most poison types (the ones that don't roll over to Stone Edge that is). Muk is actually quite viable though CB Stone Edge hurts really, really bad. Nidoqueen and even Nidoking work fine, resisting its STAB moves. Weezing of course is awesome for it, and Dusknoir works as well (it doesn't mind Pursuit if you don't switch)...so yeah.

Also Donphan is one of the best at killing Spin Blockers IMO. It is one of the only spinners Dusknoir really takes a beating from and spirirtomb does not like STAB Earthquakes coming from 300 attack at all. Gengar is trouble, but that's the easiest thing to beat with a bit of prediction. Forretress rolls over to all ghosts that stand in its path. Starmie is gone the minute Weavile shows up and isn't quite as bulky as other spinners.

EDIT: Beat to it. Gyarados rolls over to Stone Edge though, and I mean an easy 2HKO.

sims796 March 28th, 2008 9:58 AM

I forgot about Dusknoir. How is he as a wall? And, if I DO use Hitmontop, I miss a wall. So it isn't as much as needing a Hera counter as much as needing a true-blue wall.

Unless I keep Donphan (or Forry, whatever), and get Hitmontop, Dusknoir, Wigglytuff, or whatever beats MixedTar over Gya. Remeber, I now gotta get a T-tar counter, as well as a Hera counter. Is there any poke that can do that? Or is it only Gliscor/Weezing (who is the last on my thoughts, since I keep coughing up the nasty remainders of this cold.

Anti March 28th, 2008 10:01 AM

Dusknoir is an awesome wall, I use it all the time. Fun fighting immunity and resistance to Megahorn make Heracross go "lol wut"

One problem is its weakness to Pursuit which Grumpig already has, so it's quite risky (though you absolutely laugh at Weavile).

Dark Azelf March 28th, 2008 10:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sims796 (Post 3442507)
I forgot about Dusknoir. How is he as a wall? And, if I DO use Hitmontop, I miss a wall. So it isn't as much as needing a Hera counter as much as needing a true-blue wall.

Unless I keep Donphan (or Forry, whatever), and get Hitmontop, Dusknoir, Wigglytuff, or whatever beats MixedTar over Gya. Remeber, I now gotta get a T-tar counter, as well as a Hera counter. Is there any poke that can do that? Or is it only Gliscor/Weezing (who is the last on my thoughts, since I keep coughing up the nasty remainders of this cold.

Quote:

<Insert Duknoir/Gliscor/Weezing here>
Hitmontop

Grumpig
VilePlume
Sceptile
Raichu
See, your not lacking a wall. Duknoir/Gliscor/Weezing all beat hera


Hitmontop takes ALL versions of T-Tar =)


Slots together nicely IMO.

sims796 March 28th, 2008 10:14 AM

So how does this look

Sceptile
Raichu
Grumpig
Vileplume
Dusknoir w/Fire Punch
Hitmontop/Gya

In reality, I wanted to use a Stealth Rock setter-upper, along with a ghost type. Here is my proposed set for this:

[email protected]
Nature:Impish
EV:???
Fire Punch
Pain Split
WoW
Shadow Sneak/Ice Punch

Really, I was jus tlooking for a reason to use Ice Punch :P But seriously how would this do? Could it even stand up to Ttar? I might not need to get so overly defensive with this onn my team, so can I afford to use something else that can set up Stealth Rock? With this here, can I afford to keep Gya?

EDIT:Azelf beat me to te punch.

Dark Azelf March 28th, 2008 10:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sims796 (Post 3442554)
So how does this look

Sceptile
Raichu
Grumpig
Vileplume
Dusknoir w/Fire Punch
Hitmontop/Gya

In reality, I wanted to use a Stealth Rock setter-upper, along with a ghost type. Here is my proposed set for this:

[email protected]
Nature:Impish
EV:???
Fire Punch
Pain Split
WoW
Shadow Sneak/Ice Punch

Really, I was jus tlooking for a reason to use Ice Punch :P But seriously how would this do? Could it even stand up to Ttar? I might not need to get so overly defensive with this onn my team, so can I afford to use something else that can set up Stealth Rock? With this here, can I afford to keep Gya?

EDIT:Azelf beat me to te punch.

That looks much better, answer, is yes to bold and underlined.

As for evs, seeing as this is your phys wall, try 252 HP / 180 DEF / 76 SP.DEF @IMpish nature ;)

sims796 March 28th, 2008 10:35 AM

Yay! So now I must take the painful task of training a Dusknoir...

Which is better, Ice Punch, for additional coverage, or Shadow Sneak, for priority? And since i have both bulk AND WoW, I can battle Ttar much better. Meaning, who could I use in that last spot? It seems that all bases are covered, so does that mean I can afford to go creative on my spot? Is my team secure enough (with just these five here)?

Dark Azelf March 28th, 2008 10:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sims796 (Post 3442614)
Yay! So now I must take the painful task of training a Dusknoir...

Which is better, Ice Punch, for additional coverage, or Shadow Sneak, for priority? And since i have both bulk AND WoW, I can battle Ttar much better. Meaning, who could I use in that last spot? It seems that all bases are covered, so does that mean I can afford to go creative on my spot? Is my team secure enough (with just these five here)?

1. Sceptile
2. Raichu
3. Grumpig
4. Vileplume
5. Dusknoir w/Fire Punch
6. Hitmontop

You dont have 5 slots o_0

sims796 March 28th, 2008 10:38 AM

No, ignore Hitmontop for now. Him excluded, how does my team fare?

Dark Azelf March 28th, 2008 10:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sims796 (Post 3442621)
No, ignore Hitmontop for now. Him excluded, how does my team fare?

Without hitmontop, your still t-tar weak Crunch dominates Noir =X



Oh and


[email protected] / Life Orb / Black Glasses
Jolly Nature
252 ATT / 252 SPEED / 6 HP
- Taunt
- Crunch
- Earthquake
- Dragon Dance


Shuts you down even worse, so Hitmon it pretty much a given and fits perfectly into this team, being that it can spin aswell.

sims796 March 28th, 2008 10:43 AM

Ah. Hitmontop it is :P

It'll be a pain to get, though. Both ATK & DEF would have to be the same, right?

Dark Azelf March 28th, 2008 10:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sims796 (Post 3442630)
Ah. Hitmontop it is :P

It'll be a pain to get, though. Both ATK & DEF would have to be the same, right?

Ill get you one, lol......


I have one with the previously mentioned moveset, i can change it to what ever, once ive cloned it.



Pm me when joo would like it.

Anti March 28th, 2008 10:57 AM

Nobody brings out DDtar in the early game though. Not denying the weakness, just saying that's how it's used.

But yeah, Hitmontop is cool.

sims796 March 28th, 2008 11:05 AM

Sure, I'll use it for breeding, after you've cloned it. You're pokes always has suprising
IVs.

It's a shame, though. Only one poke of mine can use Falcon...PAAAWWWNNNCCHH. And that's Dusknoir.

Could I use Triple Kick over Close Combat, for Sub breaking?

Loto March 28th, 2008 11:26 AM

Also one more thing, please use Shadow Sneak on Dusknoir, finishing off weakened threats with a stab priority move is good for him and also works on the likes of Gengar and such. ^_~

go with CC imo.

Triple kick can hit 1-3 times your not always gonna get 2-3 and a base 10 attack power move just isn't gonna cut it for your main stab option, also I realize it gets stronger each time but still I would go with CC. It might not even kill TTar =/

First Hit
Damage: 52 - 61
Damage: 15.25% - 17.89%

2nd Hit
Damage: 94 - 111
Damage: 27.57% - 32.55%

Damage: 136 - 160
Damage: 39.88% - 46.92%

Now this is considering Tyranitar has NO HP Ev's.....there are many sets where it runs HP Ev's and such and even if it runs none at all you won't be killing it most of the time.

Actually even if you hit max on all 3 hits it'll live, lolz
97.36 %

sims796 March 28th, 2008 11:31 AM

With all three kicks, it's a grand total of 135 base power. But I didn't notice the accuracy.

Loto March 28th, 2008 11:33 AM

Each kick can also miss.

Attacks up to 3 times in one turn. Has 10 power for the first kick, 20 power for the second, and 30 power for the third and final kick. Each kick has its own accuracy check, and the move ends as soon as one of the kicks misses. As it is technically 3 attacks in a single turn, rather than a single attack with up to 3 hits

Dark Azelf March 28th, 2008 11:34 AM

Technician ftw lol

1st kick = 10 BP + Technician(5)(Which gives you 15 BP) + STAB (7.5) = 20.5
2nd Kick = 20 BP + Technician(10)(Which gives you 30 BP) + STAB(15) = 45
3rd kick = 30 BP + Technician (15)(Which gives you 45 BP) + STAB(22.5) = 67.5

67.5 + 45 + 20.5 = 133 BP.



If you dont want to defense drop of CC, CC is better in most cases though =)

Loto March 28th, 2008 11:37 AM

I thought Intimidate was being run for some reason. My bad, lol.

It's usable then but I would still go with CC, ^_~

Dark Azelf March 28th, 2008 11:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Loto (Post 3442795)
I thought Intimidate was being run for some reason. My bad, lol.

It's usable then but I would still go with CC, ^_~

Usually it would be, but i use Pursuit/Rapid SPin/Close Combat/Toxic W/Technician, it deals with ghosts better, just one of my quirky sets XP

sims796 March 28th, 2008 11:44 AM

Whichever pops out the egg.

Richard Lynch March 29th, 2008 9:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dark_Azelf (Post 3442534)
See, your not lacking a wall. Duknoir/Gliscor/Weezing all beat hera


Hitmontop takes ALL versions of T-Tar =)


Slots together nicely IMO.

Yeah, but good luck bringing him in on a T-Tar. That thing can't take a Tackle without loosing about abazillion HP. It's the same with Dugtrio... he can massacre T-Tar, if played well, but he can't switch into anything. I've noticed Claydol does fairly well against him (used to bve the ultimate counter in Emerald), immune to Earthquake and resists Stone Edge. But Crunch and/or Dark Pulse puts a dent in him now.

In essence, the only way to beat T-Tar is to predict well, and know what variant it is. I would have to say, though, that the best counter for him these days is a Bronzong. Same as Claydol, but the Zong takes trivial damage from Crunch/Dark Pulse. Gyro Ball is risky against T-Tar, since he's amazingly slow as hell. But Earthquake is good, or if you can get one with HP[Fighting], it's even better. Although, you have to wonder if HP[Fighting] is worth going for ONLY to take on a T-Tar. Other walls that I've seen tend well against T-Tar are Donphan and Swampert. Basically, anything really bulky with a STAB Earthquake makes T-Tar break a sweat.

EDIT: Just for reference, this is with more of a stall team mentality. If you want an attacker, by all means use a Heracross or something. But make sure you can play it well, since T-Tar is nothing to fool around with.

sims796 March 29th, 2008 9:33 AM

Oh my, I thought with his defenses, It'll be easier to counter Tar. Doesn't he resist both STAB moves, and have te SP.Defenses to take any, um, special moves he can throw? But I forget about his HP.

Ah, I guess all I can do is outprdict his movements, by at least knowing which version it is.

Anti March 29th, 2008 9:38 AM

Honestly I think Hitmontop counters it fine, especially with Intimidate. It resists both STAB moves as you mentioned and has its own STAB fighting move to send tar to its grave. If you're unsure, there's always Machamp lol jk

Dark Azelf March 29th, 2008 9:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Richard Lynch (Post 3446399)
Yeah, but good luck bringing him in on a T-Tar. That thing can't take a Tackle without loosing about abazillion HP. It's the same with Dugtrio... he can massacre T-Tar, if played well, but he can't switch into anything. I've noticed Claydol does fairly well against him (used to bve the ultimate counter in Emerald), immune to Earthquake and resists Stone Edge. But Crunch and/or Dark Pulse puts a dent in him now.

In essence, the only way to beat T-Tar is to predict well, and know what variant it is. I would have to say, though, that the best counter for him these days is a Bronzong. Same as Claydol, but the Zong takes trivial damage from Crunch/Dark Pulse. Gyro Ball is risky against T-Tar, since he's amazingly slow as hell. But Earthquake is good, or if you can get one with HP[Fighting], it's even better. Although, you have to wonder if HP[Fighting] is worth going for ONLY to take on a T-Tar. Other walls that I've seen tend well against T-Tar are Donphan and Swampert. Basically, anything really bulky with a STAB Earthquake makes T-Tar break a sweat.

EDIT: Just for reference, this is with more of a stall team mentality. If you want an attacker, by all means use a Heracross or something. But make sure you can play it well, since T-Tar is nothing to fool around with.


ERM, hitmontop is actually VERY bulky 50/95/110 defenses, it resists both of t-tars stab moves survives EQ's and can dominate it back with CC.

Heracross also fails to 2hko it with a Choice Scarf Close Combat.

Quote:

Originally Posted by sims796 (Post 3446413)
Oh my, I thought with his defenses, It'll be easier to counter Tar. Doesn't he resist both STAB moves, and have te SP.Defenses to take any, um, special moves he can throw? But I forget about his HP.

Ah, I guess all I can do is outprdict his movements, by at least knowing which version it is.

Like i said before it beats all versions of t-tar

Hp isnt much of an issue, max it gives you 304, which gives max lefties recovery, and impish, it takes hits like a pro, everyone underestimates it.

Its hp is better than noirs

MegaDitto March 29th, 2008 9:45 AM

[email protected]/Lum Berry
Nature:Adamant
-Waterfall
-Ice Fang
-Dragon Dance
-Taunt

You have 2 Earthquake using pokemon already. Possibly good idea to make Gyarados a bit different..

sims796 March 29th, 2008 8:28 PM

Nah, I'm using Top over Gya, but thanks, Bleach & Richard.

[email protected] Orb***Geico(Switch your Car Insurance, RIGHT NAOW!)
Nature:Jolly
EV:252 ATK, 252 SPD, 6 SP.DEF/HP/Who Cares?
Leaf Blade
Thunderpunch
Dragon Claw
Swords Dance
Physical Sweeper.


[email protected] Sash***Sparks
Nature:Timid
EV:MAX SP.ATK, MAX SPD, 6 SP.DEF
T-bolt
Grass Knot
Focus Blast
Nasty Plot
Special Sweeper. He abuses Focus Sash for powerful moves. Wish he had a bit more speed, but meh. I really hate Focus Blast, missing every two moves or so, but I have no choice.


[email protected]***Lumas
Nature:Calm
EV: MAX HP, 52 SP.ATK, 200 SP.DEF
Psychic
Calm Mind
Rest
Magic Coat/Shadow Ball
Special Wall.


[email protected]
Nature:Impish
EV: 252 HP, 180 DEF, 76 SP.DEF
Fire Punch
Pain Split
WoW
Shadow Sneak
Physical Wall. A bit dual.


[email protected]
Impish nature
Trait: Technician
EV: 252 HP, 100 ATK, 100 DEF, 56 SP.DEF
Pursuit
Toxic
Close Combat
Rapid Spin


[email protected] Sludge***Petals
EV:244 HP, 90 SP.ATK, 140 SP.DEF, 30 DEF
Nature:Calm
Energy Ball
Hidden Power [ICE]
Aromatherapy
Sleep Powder
Cleric.

I'm looking over this. Are there any weaknesses that I would have trouble countering?

Anti March 29th, 2008 8:57 PM

Really watch out for pursuit users, especially Weavile and Tyranitar. Mach Punch would be better for Hitmontop IMO, that way Weavile doesn't get ya.

sims796 March 29th, 2008 9:05 PM

Oh yeah, Pursuit ruins both my walls. I might lose Rapid spin, seeing as how I don't need to spin as badly. I am no longer Stealth Rock weak, and I might be able to prevent Spikes.

My other rant:

Why the hell do people use Toxic Spikes on me! Right after Vileplume (or at the time, Forry) shows up, they want to set up the Toxic Spikes, just for it to dissapear. My team is awfully resistant to Status. And when I put Magic Coat back on Grumig (just for kicks), I'll be nearly invincible.


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