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-   -   Garchomp is broken ? (https://www.pokecommunity.com/showthread.php?t=131731)

boo836 March 30th, 2008 7:25 AM

It just hit me. Cradily! Gastro acid + hp ice= Hurt chomp!

All I need is to run calculations.

Dark Azelf March 30th, 2008 7:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by boo836 (Post 3449980)
It just hit me. Cradily! Gastro acid + hp ice= Hurt chomp!

All I need is to run calculations.

Its not just its ability, im pretty sure a Choice Band Outrage would likely 2hko, same with the Sword Dance variant, and factoring Cradilys mediocre offense, i doubt HP ice would OHKO...


Also, must everyone use Gastro Acid on their team,Just for Garchomp a stupid move which has no other use apart from that ? Over Centralization, again...

Sora_8920 March 30th, 2008 7:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dark_Azelf (Post 3449990)
Its not just its ability, im pretty sure a Choice Band Outrage would likely 2hko, same with the Sword Dance variant, and factoring Cradilys mediocre offense, i doubt HP ice would OHKO...


Also, must everyone use Gastro Acid on their team,Just for Garchomp a stupid move which has no other use apart from that ? Over Centralization, again...

Just what I was going to say. Actually, everything except Garchomp 2Hko'ing Cradily I agree with. Too lazy to run the calcs, you must have, though. :/

Like said many times, listing counters is pretty useless. Just look at me. :/ It's impossible to predict what variant it is at first. And nothing is a sure switch-in on it. Imagine if it had Nasty Plot. Lol. But nobody runs special for that reason, no Nasty Plot, and a bad special movepool. But yeah, nothing is a sure switch-in on either Sd Chomp, or Chain Chomp.

Dark Azelf March 30th, 2008 7:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Itachi 2008 (Post 3450012)
Just what I was going to say. Actually, everything except Garchomp 2Hko'ing Cradily I agree with. Too lazy to run the calcs, you must have, though. :/

Like said many times, listing counters is pretty useless. Just look at me. :/ It's impossible to predict what variant it is at first. And nothing is a sure switch-in on it. Imagine if it had Nasty Plot. Lol. But nobody runs special for that reason, no Nasty Plot, and a bad special movepool. But yeah, nothing is a sure switch-in on either Sd Chomp, or Chain Chomp.

It does infact 2hko Cradily. Nearly ohko lol

252 ATT, Neutral Garchomps, Life Orb'd Earthquake After a Swords Dance

Defender HP: 376
Damage: 372 - 438
Damage: 98.94% - 116.49%

On 252 hp / 164 def neutral cradily. Pwned



Choice Band Outrage from 252 Neutral Nature Chomp

Defender HP: 376
Damage: 258 - 303
Damage: 68.62% - 80.59%

On 252 hp / 164 def neutral cradily. still pwned




Choice Band Earthquake from 252 Neutral Nature Chomp

Defender HP: 376
Damage: 215 - 253
Damage: 57.18% - 67.29%


On 252 hp / 164 def neutral cradily.again pwned

Sora_8920 March 30th, 2008 7:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dark_Azelf (Post 3450048)
It does infact 2hko Cradily. Nearly ohko lol

252 ATT, Neutral Garchomps, Life Orb'd Earthquake

Defender HP: 376
Damage: 372 - 438
Damage: 98.94% - 116.49%

On 252 hp / 164 def neutral cradily. Pwned



Choice Band Outrage from 252 Neutral Nature Chomp

Defender HP: 376
Damage: 258 - 303
Damage: 68.62% - 80.59%

On 252 hp / 164 def neutral cradily. still pwned




Choice Band Earthquake from 252 Neutral Nature Chomp

Defender HP: 376
Damage: 215 - 253
Damage: 57.18% - 67.29%


On 252 hp / 164 def neutral cradily.again pwned

I didn't say it didn't. I didn't agree with you because I didn't know if it would or not.

Cloud_85 March 30th, 2008 7:58 AM

Another of the Bigs problems with Chomp is that you only know his moveset when it's too late, you may swich to Weavile thinking its a SD, but he maybe scarf or Band Chomp... His ability it's from another world, and his movepool it's just amazing. Really it deserve to be banned, I love it when I used on my first team, but when I tried deal with him on a stall team he was a big deal...

shedinjask March 30th, 2008 11:50 AM

Garchomp @ Salac Berry
76 Attk/252 Spd/180 SDef -- Adamant
Swords Dance
Outrage/Dragon Claw
Fire Fang
Earthquake

Swords Dance, take the hit for Salac, kill 'counter', sweep. Uber.

Dark Azelf March 30th, 2008 12:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shedinjask (Post 3450667)
Garchomp @ Salac Berry
76 Attk/252 Spd/180 SDef -- Adamant
Swords Dance
Outrage/Dragon Claw
Fire Fang
Earthquake

Swords Dance, take the hit for Salac, kill 'counter', sweep. Uber.

I think ive heard about that set, or one similar it survives ice beam doesnt it ? lol

Syaoran March 30th, 2008 12:27 PM

Yeah, the thread about it on smogon is popular now. I wouldn't use that set, because I rather have him strong enough from the start, and I intend on him taking hits anyway by switching in, so there's no point for me to use it I guess.

zenrot April 1st, 2008 7:40 AM

There will ALWAYS be someone who sets a curve. So Garchomp is powerful, there are always going to be powerful pokemon. There is no reason to make him uber.

Dark Azelf April 1st, 2008 7:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zenrot (Post 3456448)
There will ALWAYS be someone who sets a curve. So Garchomp is powerful, there are always going to be powerful pokemon. There is no reason to make him uber.


Thing is if you read ALL of the first post it explains why.

Its not just because he is "powerful", its because it literally has no counters, a stupid ability and is bulkier than swampert and it takes a ridiculous amount of att or sp.att to ohko it.

zenrot April 1st, 2008 8:47 AM

well yeah thats true. But if he is so good then use him for yourself or just be prepared. It's not like garchomp is impossible to defeat. In my opinion if you ban garchomp, than ban blissey and skarmory too.

Dark Azelf April 1st, 2008 8:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zenrot (Post 3456602)
well yeah thats true. But if he is so good then use him for yourself or just be prepared. It's not like garchomp is impossible to defeat. In my opinion if you ban garchomp, than ban blissey and skarmory too.

Please read the whole first post, this applies to everyone, i made that specific on the first post in big bold blue letters


Quote:

Blissey [insert any pokemon] are more overcentralizing than Garchomp, why arent we banning them?

Blissey isn't broken, and neither are those other pokemon. If you want to debate this, start a thread and list all the reasons why [insert any pokemon] here is broken.
Yeah

airconditioning April 1st, 2008 9:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zenrot (Post 3456602)
use him for yourself

So, I'm forced to use Garchomp or lose? Sounds broken to me.

or just be prepared

That would work- if it you could prepare for him. He has so many wildly different sets, that it's impossible to predict what he'll do until he gets off a Swords Dance or kills off your fastest sweeper.

It's not like garchomp is impossible to defeat.

True, but he's damn near.

In my opinion if you ban garchomp, than ban blissey and skarmory too.

What DA said. Besides, Skarmory and Blissey are easy to take out.

Comments in bold, etc. etc.

FourFourTwo April 1st, 2008 9:19 AM

I've never really had a problem with Chomp. Then again, I run a Hail team, so it's easy to counter.

But I can see why its broken. Almost EVERYONE I've gone up against used some form of chomp, but it cant stand a 100% accuracy blizzard from a max HP/def walrein. :)

I think it should stay in OU, honestly, you just need a bit of strategy to take it down. In my opinion, softboiled/aroma/ST bliss is much more annoying.

shedinjask April 1st, 2008 12:45 PM

Bliss may be more annoying but it has tons of counters.

Sora_8920 April 1st, 2008 12:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shedinjask (Post 3457316)
Bliss may be more annoying but it has tons of counters.

Quoted for truth.

Read that thread from PE2K.

ABYAY April 1st, 2008 1:03 PM

Garchomp is one of the few pokemon that sends a spike of fear down my spine. It's basically counterless. Also, that Sand Veil ruined my only chance to take down a Life Orb Chomp back in the past. I was up 4-1. My ape's CC missed, got quaked. My Bliss got crit and killed in one hit, and I needed to pull Aromatherapy to wake up Milo. I had Sleep Talk as backup, but obviously, I had to get Rest. Forry did get a nice hit with Gyro Ball, but that's about it. If the crit wouldn't have happened, It would've been at least a draw.

It speaks for itself; various sets make people question constantly. The only decently effective way in finding out what item it has is to use Frisk, but no OU pokemon uses Frisk. From the looks, the new main pokemon to use against Garchomp is Mamoswine due to its average defense and impressive HP and attack. That Ice Shard is a nice tool with the attack and Choice Band. i guess this is why I'm hearing more about Mamoswine these days? In the past, they were nearly obsolete from what I saw and heard.

Cloud_85 April 1st, 2008 1:47 PM

Yeah You may say that every Garchomps set have a counter, but his movepool it's SO amazing that when you know if he is Scarfed or Banded or SD or Chain it's really late... there is no safe swich, and he can always carry a Yache berry, with that only a CB Weavile doing Ice Punch with Adamant and 252 EV ATK (If both have 31 IV on Atak/Def) you can ohko him, that's the reason cause I don't use Jolly... Really weavile it's too fast for Jolly IMO. But Weavile isn't a safe switch against a Garchomp...

Sora_8920 April 1st, 2008 2:01 PM

Would it be safe to say that CB Mamoswine can counter Garchomp with Ice Shard w/o Yache Berry? LO is better for the SD Set, anyways. According to Anti-Pop, it gets strong really fast.

Cloud_85 April 1st, 2008 2:14 PM

Manoswine could be a kind of safe change, but that will cause overcentralization. That way anybody will have a Manoswine. And he will fear the Chain Chomp, Dunno if him ohko with Blast (I don't think so) and for ohko a Garchomp the Manoswine will need Adamant and several Ev on attack, and that won't be good for Mano against other sweepers...

Sora_8920 April 1st, 2008 2:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cloud_85 (Post 3457620)
Manoswine could be a kind of safe change, but that will cause overcentralization. That way anybody will have a Manoswine. And he will fear the Chain Chomp, Dunno if him ohko with Blast (I don't think so) and for ohko a Garchomp the Manoswine will need Adamant and several Ev on attack, and that won't be good for Mano against other sweepers...

Why does everybody say this? We're NOT saying you SHOULD use one, just that's It's helpful. ;)

But otherwise, I'll just have to agree with the rest.

Cloud_85 April 1st, 2008 2:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Itachi 2008 (Post 3457626)
Why does everybody say this? We're NOT saying you SHOULD use one, just that's It's helpful. ;)

But otherwise, I'll just have to agree with the rest.


XD, Well I'm not was trying to say that, but having only Mano as a REAL counter of almost all Chomp Versions (Note that Weavile can handle all except Scarf, if he don't have Ice Shard...) it's a reason for ban Chomp, right?

Syaoran April 1st, 2008 2:30 PM

How exactly is Mamoswine a counter? You can't switch him in on a CB Outrage without him dying. If you intend on using a 252 HP/DEF Mamoswine, you're not going to 1HKO Garchomp anytime soon. Hell, the only way an adamant 252 ATK Mamo will 1HKO Chomp is with Life Orb or Choice Band. Sure you can revenge kill, but that means you have to lose something first.

Cloud_85 April 1st, 2008 2:36 PM

If Manoswine is CB he can use Ice Shard, that will ohko Garchomp without a Yache Berry, and I don't think that a CB Chomp can Ohko a Mano with Outrage, but I don't make any calculations. In that situation you can always revenge kill a Outrage from Chomp.


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