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Just because we've seen it fall, doesn't mean it belongs in OU. As said, it has no counters.Even Swampert gets 2HKO'ed, so it's not even a reliable switch in. Someting must lose in order to revenge kill. I feel the metagame is just getting used to Chomp, and we will soon see it rise to more unreasonable standards.
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20% Evassios does not gauarntee an ice shard to miss. I think moving Garchomp up to uber is ridicilous. We are saying after it SD's it is a god. On it's on it's not that special. Ice Beam Frosslass wipes it out. I don't think it should be moved up. No way.
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EDIT:You guys really aren't thinking of why we are all saying why he should be uber. You are giving half made counter arguments. Furthermore, you are ignoring the reasons of why he belongs there. Read the first post. Quote:
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Listen, No matter how you toss the dice. No matter what numbers, stats, or movesets you throw at it...Every pokemon has a flaw.
From the UU class to the Ubers class, Every pokemon has weaknesses. Sure, you can spend all of your time debating that garchomp is broken. But in reality what pokemon isnt 'broken' in some way. In my opinion people use the Uber class to trash what actually works. In other words...THE WHOLE GOSH DARN TIER SYSTEM IS FLAWED! Seriously. I laugh at the tier system. It's why I got out of the batting scene. It ruins the whole point of a battle. Why draw a battle out by hobbling yourself? Anyhow back ontopic. Sending garchomp to the ubers pile essentially tells everyone that the average trainer cant handle it. If that's the case then there is a sad sad future for pokemon battling indeed. |
I think that there should be a tier for pokemon that are too good for OU, but can't be used in ubers... like Wobby, that thing is single handedly changing the OU environment simply because it can't handle a Specs Mewtwo Shadow Ball etc.
Blissey was under consideration for ubers btw, it's just Nasty Plot and Choice Specs and not to mention Focus Blast and Close Combat kinda changed that. Blissey isn't THE special wall for nothing. (Not trying to change this to moving Blissey to ubers btw) |
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However, Garchomp doesn't really have a proper counter, so that really dents its chances staying in OU. |
it shouldn't be banned from ou and be classified as Uber as it isn't. it's still weak to Ice-type moves. what if you had a poke with an ice type move and scarf. also, yes, DA, i've heard of the Yache berry but still, x2 damage isn't that bad. defense wise, yes Chomp is broken but not broken enough.
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"ZOMG! FEAR Rattata is broken because it is guaranteed a KO!" But seriously, the reason Garchomp is being considered is because of a few reasons. Yes, Garchomp has counters, just as all pokemon do. The problem is, because of it's ability, it is able to get around those counters. This means that at no point in time is there ever a guaranteed (100%) chance of a KO. All of Garchomp's "Counters" are still 2-3HKO'd at best. A counter (by definition) is something able to switch in and take minimal damage, with the potential to KO. This pokemon is switching into a STAB'd Choice Band 120 Base attack coming from a base 130 attack stat. You cannot afford to miss in this situation. You may say "But Skarmory/Forretress/Bronzong can easily counter Garchomp", but these pokemon cannot do anything back to Garchomp. If you switch into Outrage, only for it to end, your strategy goes out the window. None of these pokemon have access to a healing move other than rest, so you either lose them, or give your opponent time to set up while you sleep. The reasoning is, Garchomp has the ability to 6-0 any team. Even its counters need be wary. Revenge Killers such as Weavile and Mamoswine cannot switch into an Outrage, meaning to kill Garchomp you need to sacrifice another pokemon to do so. If Garchomp evades the Ice Shard, you're screwed. Again though, if the Outrage finishes, the Ice Shard option sticks out like...well, you know. Having to sacrifice a pokemon everytime Garchomp comes in is what makes it so hard to counter. ~T_S |
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HEZ WEEK 2 EYC TEYPS!", really sounding like idiots. I bet everyone saying Garchomp isn't uber didn't even look at Tortured wonderful post above me. It's not about the average trainer not being able to handle it, get off that hippie BS. It's about him literally being a cut above everything else, which is not fair. And for Colum, if there is no tier system, tell me, what are you going to do about this: [email protected] Nature:Impish Double Team Cosmic Power Toxic/Recover Substitute Now, explain how you can beat this. Really, I'd like to know. What, bash through it? Nope. After Calm Mind, thenwith Substitute taking the slack, and don't forget, you will hardly ever hit it with Double Team. It's invincible, and can just stall you out of PP. "But a good trainer can handle it!" Enough with the hippie BS and actually tell me how. |
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Zangoose Taunt SwordsDance Shadow claw ( + good crit chance) Crush Claw/Return |
Rebember, Double Team has most likely been used, and whenever you're (puny) hits connect, it won't do much, and he can Recover off the damages. And you know more than I that it's never one on one. This is the ultimate haxed staller, only beaten by Taunt, and if it already have Substitute up, it's over.
This set is for anyone bawing over tier list, and not realizing what Chomp is made of. |
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Seriously people, listen. sims, Dark_Azelf, Anti-Pop and Syaoran are experienced in these matters. All they are asking is that you read the front post. Please do this before you post some crap that will most likely get you flamed... On another note sims, I have found one major flaw. If you don't have Stealth Rock/Spikes/T-Spikes support up, there is one very easy way to deal with it. KEEP SWITCHING OUT You cannot PP stall your opponent if they don't attack. It makes the match impossible, but eventually your opponent will need to switch, unless they want to be there for hours. The Deoxys will eventually stall itself out... btw, you still have "Lost" in your friend list. I've given that account the nudge, this one is my main one, as it is the "known" one. :P (If you want to change it. ;)) ~T_S |
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Remember, this is one of many pokes that is on a team. Don't tell me you guys stopped thinking as well. There are 5 more pokes to deal with, this being one of many. You can swap Cosmic Power for Reflect, even. |
I'm just saying that it isn't invincible if it is made to switch out, cancelling the sub and Cosmic Powers. (If the opponent is stupid enough to let you set up...)
But yes, that is a very apt example of why the tier system is in place. It also helps to get away from the 'Giants' like Tyranitar and Garchomp, and head to a more 'subtle' tier in UU. ~T_S |
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The only pokes with reliable recovery that can phaze Garchomp are Hippowdon and Skarmory. Unfortunately Skarmory takes a big chuck of damage from Fire Fang / Fire Blast, while Hippowdon actually helps Garchomp by activating his Sand Veil, making Roar 80%.
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I think the most horrible thing to come out of the past few weeks is that what does have a shot at Garchomp can now be held by Wobbuffet. Counter/Mirror Coat to the death and then sweep with Garchomp. Wobby must go up, and Garchomp has good reason to also head that way.
~T_S |
But it'll be a shame for Chomp to move up. We shouldn't rush to boost it right away.
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I simply mean that by the current argument, there is for more support 'for' than 'against'. I am still in the wings though. I don't want to go messing too much with this sort of stuff. I'll check Smogon shortly to see where they've gotten on the matter.
~T_S |
I'm not saying anything against Garchomp going for uber. But the fact is, we have all beat it time and time again. Unfortunately, the game is evolving, and Garchomp's stregnth's are starting to surface.
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