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Isaac Gravity March 6th, 2005 1:47 AM

I really don't get it... Just forget the stupid score and do what you gotta do... Fanfic writing is suppose to be about havin' fun while writing intelligently... Nothing turned out wasted... Why are you kickin' yourself around so much?

Frostweaver March 6th, 2005 1:48 AM

Writing style is a strange thing...

I never understand how did Shakespear get away with all those grammar mistakes, yet our english teachers slaughter us if we dare to screw around with the english grammar... So that I don't know how it works myself.

I'm pretty sure that 95% of the people here disagree with me on that post, saying how "well that's certainly not what I have in my mind when I'm trying to write." Well just because that's what you think, that isn't really what is truly going on. It happens just naturally, because the concept of Communication and expression of ideas are so dwelled in human natures since the Creation that we can do some of these stuff by heart without realizing that is what we are doing.

If you must insist on leaving, that's fine with me... but we will always look forward to you changing your mind, or coming back in the close/distant future to take on the world of writing again.

Final word of wisdom: best to learn to adapt to unexpected successes and failures quickly... in the online world you can always escape your admittance to defeat by logging off, yet should your future employer give you a crushing defeat in your career in real life, there is no shutdown button... Success isn't about what we can do or accomplish, but how we handle the daily matters and the daily changes in every day life, with defeat being a necessary step to success.

Yamato-san March 6th, 2005 2:07 AM

Frostweaver's right. I write PMC because I enjoy the story I planned, and I wish for others to view it. I admit, I can be a bit of a braggart whenever it seems successfull, but that's because I'm happy so many are reading.

BTW, my fic is free for analysis. It's most likely greatly suited for demonstration on how scripts should be written.

Strawberry Delcatty March 6th, 2005 2:11 AM

Well, I get happy whenever someone reads my fic as well, and I try to make it appealing to everyone.

Frostweaver March 6th, 2005 2:13 AM

Yes I know it's perfect material for scriptfic as well... but then I actually need to read further to decide on making it a demonstration though ^^; actually, mostly hoping to see a long Pokemon battle scene first or just something that's action packed (aka something that's *very* difficult to demonstrate in a dialogue-dominated style of writing). I considered between either PMC or ToR, and I chose ToR just because

a) May is in it =D

b) more writers write in this format more than script, so generally more will benefit

c) May is in it *biased*

d) though both fanfics have done this very well, ToR shows tone more clearly though. ToR just got more characters than PMC, so the difference in tone between every character is more clearly shown... not a fault of PMC, but just that ToR got more characters.

e) May is in it like, oh my goodness!

f) ... I think i said it already, didn't I?

Of course ToR will be *even* better if Haruka replaces May... I mean, obviously Haruka can play a better role than May!


EDIT: of course you should be happy that someone is reading your fanfic... but just where is this on your priority list that matters

And a bit more about "acceptance" of writing style...

"To be or not to be, that is a grammatically incorrect question."

Yamato-san March 6th, 2005 3:15 AM

Trials of Reluctance (that is what ToR stands for, right?) is not a true script, though, so it'd be pointless to analyze it as one. And what is with you and the bias..... wait, is this about May, or the fact that my story uses Japanese names and you don't want to alienate anyone?

Geometric-sama March 6th, 2005 3:23 AM

I write purely because I want other people to read... that's why I ask for reviews so I know what people think....

Dragonfree March 6th, 2005 6:16 AM

Oh geeze...

I write because I want to write. I post my work because I want reviews. I want reviews because I want to write better. When I get a review, I rewrite what I have. I try to polish it to perfection. Why can't you just do that? Rewrite a bit?

Really... you should see Farla at FanFiction.Net. Just look at her reviews! She would pick on every sentence, every line, every plot point. And do you know why I asked her to review my fic? After seeing the way she reviews?

Because she can seriously tell you what to improve. Even if she says a lot of things rather nastily, she says them, and that's what is important. She's like the finest filter to put a story through to achieve as much perfection as possible. Her reviews hurt, but they're worth it if you only have the guts to read them, see her points and improve upon them. Look, my fic is highly praised. Farla says it has "one of the most poorly thought-out plots she has ever seen". And am I just going to curl up in a corner and delete my fic? No way! I'll ask her what she means exactly, and try to improve it.

You want your fic to be good? Accept your reviews, learn from them, and have some determination to do better. You'll never succeed at anything this way.

Yamato-san March 6th, 2005 11:50 AM

hey, earlier it was brought up that I'm not really good at word-usage in certain situations, so..... would someone like to volunteer as my beta or whatever you call them?

Please remember, though, my descriptions are quick and simple to read, I intend to keep them that way, so no lengthy metaphors and all that crap. Also, I don't go through the trouble of describing the appearance of existing Pokemon or characters. I figure since the readers are fans of the franchise anyway, they'd know what they look like, or at least know how to look them up and search for a picture of them.

Strawberry Delcatty March 6th, 2005 11:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by frostweaver
of course you should be happy that someone is reading your fanfic... but just where is this on your priority list that matters

I'll admit that it's the second thing on the list (first is trying to get the chapter done as quickly as possible)

I'll also admit that I don't take kinda to some criticism (especially if it's harsh).

The thing is that I'm so used to being praised to death. When I have something I'm proud of, I just expect the same reaction from everyone. So, that's pretty much the top reason I put HMW here. I do have a tendancy to brag about everything that goes well and get ticked off at those who don't support me.

When I read Frosty's reviews, I thought that if he didn't like HMW, then everyone else would steer clear from it since he's the most popular reviewer around. The 71 I coped with a bit better (although there was some things that I don't understand about it). The 65, however, was totally unacceptable. To me, the score said "Get that stupid fic out of here. No one wants to read a fic with a score this bad". And yet, when I take a peek into the thread, everyone seems to like it (although most of them were just "I like it" comments, which are the comments that I'm used to getting).

I do write just to write, but at the same time, I thought that a little recognition wouldn't hurt. Unfortunately, as time went by, the recognition desire overshadowed the other.

Basically, the reason I write now is to become this famous writer that always gets high scores and lots of praise. Sure, it feels good when it does happen, but when constructive criticism comes by, I can't handle it well.

Now, after rereading those comments a few times, I realized that I was wrong. I'm very sorry if I had offended anyone by my comments.

Breezy March 6th, 2005 12:06 PM

Actually, if you do have a low score, most readers usually will flock over to fics that have "low score" to see if it deserves it or not, unlike high scores where you know that there isn't much need to look if it's good or not. People like reading bad over good sadly (which must be the reason why everyone reads my crappy stories ^_^).

I know how it feels to be praised and then get a construtive review lol. I think my first one was from . . . Farla. She told me I rushed at the end and the dialogue ruined the tone, plus oodles more! ~.^

LaTeR dAyZ!

"People ask for criticism, but they only want praise." - W. Somerset Maugham

Frostweaver March 6th, 2005 12:35 PM

I choose to analyze ToR not because I want to review a scriptfic, but rather for...

-study of tone
-study of characterization
-study of support characters/minor characters' contribution to the story
-study of coherence in multiple plotlines
-study of theme/s

I think that ToR shows these 5 points very well... both what to do (ex: development of May) and what not to do (ex: development of Steven). It has both pros and cons to disguss, which is also another thing to look for... not just what is good, but where are the areas to improve on.

As for the May thing, it's just that I like May *a lot* ^o^ I like Haruka even more though ^_________^

Welcome back to writing then, Neko =p

Oh Farla... she's an insane reviewer... a simple "meh... not bad" from her is better than 10000 "Oh I can't wait for the next chapter" kind of stuff... lol. The cruelest part is that this isn't sarcasm or exaggeration. lol Breezy... I guess that Farla must have reviewed one of your stories right? Well that's not surprising that she will want to take a look at the author who has gone famous in fanfiction.net for the astonishing series of stories revolving Brendan/May (also being one of the first writers to write about the Ruby/Sapphire characters)

Aiya Quackform March 6th, 2005 12:47 PM

You're acting like a stuck up child throwing a tantrum, in my opinion. You've had lots of people ask you to stay, explain why you should stay, tell you that you should work on improving your skills, and not give up because you're not perfect! I really don't get what the deal is with you. Are you going back to PE2K because they don't help you improve? PE2K can have you.

(If someone deems this too harsh, either delete it or tell me to edit it. This is acceptable on another forum I'm on, I'm not sure about PC.)

Strawberry Delcatty March 6th, 2005 2:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aiya Quackform
You're acting like a stuck up child throwing a tantrum, in my opinion. You've had lots of people ask you to stay, explain why you should stay, tell you that you should work on improving your skills, and not give up because you're not perfect!

I know...
Like I said, I'm sorry for acting that way.

Aiya Quackform March 6th, 2005 2:20 PM

Oh, man, now you're making me feel guilty...

Thanks for being so civil, Nekomajo Asunya, after all of this.

Strawberry Delcatty March 6th, 2005 3:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aiya Quackform
Oh, man, now you're making me feel guilty...

Oh... sorry about that.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aiya Quackform
Thanks for being so civil, Nekomajo Asunya, after all of this.

No problem.
Of course, I'm still upset about no Meowth and Skitty being in tOD, but that's mainly because I'm a cat maniac. Meow.

Breezy March 6th, 2005 3:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by frostweaver
Oh Farla... she's an insane reviewer... a simple "meh... not bad" from her is better than 10000 "Oh I can't wait for the next chapter" kind of stuff... lol. The cruelest part is that this isn't sarcasm or exaggeration. lol Breezy... I guess that Farla must have reviewed one of your stories right? Well that's not surprising that she will want to take a look at the author who has gone famous in fanfiction.net for the astonishing series of stories revolving Brendan/May (also being one of the first writers to write about the Ruby/Sapphire characters)

Yep she did. ^_^ Though, I think she reviewed me because I reviewed one of her stories (it was a parody on something I believe) and not because I was "famous" (though it could of been) seeing as she did review one of my one-shots the next day. Surprisingly, it wasn't that bad. I believe it was before she got harsher if that's possible.
Quote:

Originally Posted by Farla from ff.net
I thought this looked like a good story, until the dialogue started. You were doing so well - establishing Wally's character reasonably, not rushing directly into the story, and then...
I don't like or hate Brendan, but the bashing here just feels random and poorly justified. Not an insightful interpretation of his character but rather a "I like Wally so I'll just make Brendan a jerk for no reason" sort of thing.
And then the dialogue starts. Ugh. I can't put my finger on what exactly is so horribly wrong, but it...well, sounds wrong, like I just said. As if you're just using it as an excuse to preach to us, not because that's what the characters would actually say. May sounds especially weird - why can't she use contractions? - but Wally doesn't sound realistic either. So basically, this seems written less because you like Wally/May and more because you wanted a chance to bash Brendan. Which is weird, because if you like the pairing, surely you must have a better reason than 'because she shouldn't be paired with Brendan (because he's a jerk)'.
Also, 'your' is possessive (your story) and 'you're' is a contraction of 'you are' (you're the writer).

o.0 See? That's like one million times nicer from what I've seen from her lately.

Aiya Quackform March 6th, 2005 7:17 PM

Yes, I've had the curse/blessing thing of getting Farla's reviews on TOD at FFnet. A lot of her points are very valid, but it bugs the heck out of me when she acts like she knows my characters better than I do... (She DOESN'T, and I've pointed that out to her on a couple occasions.) ... (Yes, you've found a peeve of mine.)

Note: I just posted my new .hack one-shot, "Mind's Eye" for anyone who's interested.

Breezy March 6th, 2005 7:23 PM

Yeah, same here. That one-shot was mainly to retaliate back to those who were bashing Wally by semi-bashing Brendan instead and having Wally and May together, not just to bash period. They wouldn't listen to Breezy ranting about stop bashing Wally so Breezy decided to write a story about it. ~^

Of course she's going to point out of the canon characters are just a tad OOC. But your characters were original right?

Nevertheless though, she still one heck of a great reviewer though I would have much more respect for her if she didn't have that livejournal of hers.

Aiya Quackform March 6th, 2005 7:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Breezy
Of course she's going to point out of the canon characters are just a tad OOC. But your characters were original right?

(I'll assume this is directed at me.) Yes, my characters are original. She was all, "I don't think Castform would do that," etc, etc. But I knew what I was doing. I was showing that my characters have different sides and are getting comfortable with one another. She bugged me with that. [/rant]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Breezy
Nevertheless though, she still one heck of a great reviewer

True enough. She keeps me on my toes like a ballerina.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Breezy
though I would have much more respect for her if she didn't have that livejournal of hers.

Livejournal?

Breezy March 6th, 2005 8:07 PM

Yeah, some of her reviews go in her livejournal without the author's knowledge or consent. That's when she's really wicked. o.0

I'm sorry, I keep talking about Farla heh. ^^; I'll shut up now.

Frostweaver March 6th, 2005 9:03 PM

@ Destiny of Understanding (ch. 1)

-it's no doubt that ch. 1 is the introduction and the start of the story >>; story titles should reflect something about the content of that chapter, not about where it is in the story timeline

Quote:

There was a great calmness in the air though it was not the calm before a storm but the calm that was only felt just before dawn.
Much of it is redundancy... Though I understand how you're actually saying the reverse, right now it's not saying anything... If you want to say the reverse, then all of the following scenes gotta have a similiar syntax in order to convey the idea to the reader that something is unusual. Have to try to be concise and clear, with the proper usage of diction as well.

Quote:

There was a little light coming from the horizon but it was still too early for there to be enough to illuminate the few clouds that were in the sky, only visible because of some of the few remaining stars were being blocked by them.
-err... this one I'm just totally stumped...

Quote:

The calmness promised that the coming day would be filled with beautiful sunshine, and that the sunrise would turn the clouds around the horizon a wonderful shade of pink for a few minutes, though it’s promise that was not needed as almost all mornings were like this…
-same problem with the whole beginning... it's a terribly confusing way to convey your idea right now...

-another consistent problem with your sentence structures... just because a sentence is technically grammatically correct, that doesn't mean a huge sentence with like 50 words in it is a good sentence. In fact, most of the time if the sentence has more than 3 clauses, it's a sure note that you should use 2 sentences instead.

-what is "too light" o.o; i think you want to use "bright" there instead...

Quote:

If the creature that was going to make the day different wanted any of them it would have already of gotten one and left, no it was after something a bit bigger, something that wasn’t covered in fur quite unlike itself.
-Again I get what you mean, but this is *terribly* confusing... partly because what should have been in multiple sentences are forced into one huge one... partly because it got such a strange syntax of wrongness to it...

-watch out for its and it's

-... I'll just ignore all the future strange syntax that's making this fanfic very difficult to read from this review now... but definitely, you must rework these unclear sentences!

-so many continous usage of "but in fact..." "however..." "in reality..." "though..." "then again..." "but..." x_x; It makes your sentence very boring actually if all of them have the same structure... that is why we should vary the length of our sentences, and play around with voices and clauses in order to make our sentences interesting.

-Ninetales say such an unusually lot with possibly important things about the plot... it can get a bit boring? There is no rush to spill out all the plot immediately... afterall, we must conserve part of it in order to keep the readers interested with the mysteries... as well, revealing somethings that are only relevant in the distant future too early will result in readers possibly even forgetting some of the stuff...

-and i didn't even realize that the "All-Weathers" are humans until there O.o; even though they're introduced to the story a long while ago... hmm >>;

-Lilac is also a bit OOC... or should I say, out-of-logic? Even though she's some unnoticed girl that seeks attention yet cannot find it, it's still unreasonable to be so calm and firm at the same time in front of Kitsune at the end of ch.1...

-as a last bit of advice, watch out for a highly redoned plot... what ch. 1 tells me is that the overall plot is very alike to *many* other plots out there. This will mean that if you want your story to stand out from the rest, then your plot details will have to be *very* detailed and spectacular...

Focuses to Improve On
-syntax to help clarity
-clarity in plot
-sentence structure to help clarity

Grammar Basics: 7/10
Characterization: 10/20
Coherence/Readability: 7/10
Tone/Structure: 6/20
Diction: 10/20
Effort/Originality: 15/20
Lit. Device bonus: +0


Total: 55

Now I'll look so much like a bad guy after 2 consecutives of marks in this general region... not that I care about being the antagonist of today, but I do want to remind everyone that I give a mark as I see fit in comparison to a truly enjoyable fanfic, regardless of age or anything.

Aiya Quackform March 6th, 2005 10:30 PM

My fic is next... *is nervous* Hey, what are the odds of three bad scores in a row, right? *nervous laugh* ... *crosses fingers for a 70+*

Flatulus March 6th, 2005 10:30 PM

Frost you know you have just made the mods look bad, my fic was last weeks fic of the week and you just put it down as only deserving a low score... The fact I might get in trouble for it is still a possibility, but it's more likely you'll suffer instead.

On all the sites I put the fic this was the first bad review, I don't see how the plot is unorigional but I haven't read many fics to compair it with so I can't say for sure that your wrong.
Yes, my spelling and grammer is shocking, it comes from failing english two years in a row but that's not really important.
I understand that you probably don't like my fic, it's understandable that you can't like every kind of fic, and this fic is not for younger pokemon fans.

On a lighter note: How close did I get to the worst fic you've reviewed?

Yamato-san March 6th, 2005 11:07 PM

Flatulus, the mods may find it good personally, but Frostweaver reviews in a rather thorough and, I can assume, unbiased and fair manner. That aside, there also have been tons of occasions where the "Fanfic of the Week" was just the best they could come up with to showcase for that particular week (in other words, it's not crap, but it's certainly not gold nor any kind of precious metal/stone/pearl/jet/amber/other organic materials for that matter. And when the only other things available for that week is crap, you know what they'd pick).

Frostweaver March 6th, 2005 11:34 PM

What Lily thinks is one thing. What I think is another. We maybe pairups and are good friends, that doesn't mean I cannot disagree with her or even prove her to be wrong. In the same manner, she can also refute me. I've stated this very clearly before in one of our PMs. Don't tell me what to do or what not to do in the name of someone else here, be it using Lily's name, or the higher staff's name...

or even, the old Kairi herself.

I've always made the mod look bad and poking fun of them anyway. I wasn't a likable fellow staff when I was a mod (and thank goodness that I got out of Mod Lounge so soon)

No. Neither of us will get in trouble, nor will anyone for that matter. Does a teacher get a deployment letter from giving a student a "low" mark? If that is what is happening, then there is no need for teachers in the world

I've explained about the chapter thing already. I read as far as I go, and come to a stop when I see that I've made enough suggestions for you to work on. If I find that there's a lot to do in one chapter, then I only review one chapter. However, if your story is flawless, then I'll be forced to read all those 10 chapters of it.

There are *tons* of stories with ninetales playing "mysterious" roles (in fact, Vulpix/Ninetale itself is a very overused Pokemon character, next to Eevee and the Eeveelutions, tie with the legendaries)... and there are plenty others with manipulative Pokemon trying to take on the human world. Fanfiction.net has tons, and even a few months back PC got one itself of mysterious Ninetales running around with all those mysterious tone (but didn't manipulate any human being)

Also, I'll side with Farla on another point about the plot- whenever Pokemon and Humans are able to understand each other, it's almost bound to have chaos that appear, unless the situation is that the fanfic takes place in an alternate universe. It's almost always that authors allow the Pokemon and the protagonist to be able to chat with each other without ever giving a reasonable explanation! In here, we have "well this Ninetales is SPECIAL." (but at least it's better than those "how did that happen? Oh well *shrug*") Well, like, ok... what about it?

True that in stories, the author can almost bend anything to his or her will if s/he chooses so. But this is only true if the author makes it conceivable, convincing and realistic.

How is grammar "not very important?" Grammar is a set of rules set for words and other writing components to form sentences, therefore making it possible for everyone else to understand what is being said/written. If you failed english 2 times, that is "fine." If you're writing a fanfic with english not being your first language, that is also "fine" (meh english isn't my first language either.) But to just shrug it off and ignore the problem... that is not "fine." If you have problems with grammar, ask for assistance and let others help you with it. Reading more fanfics or published books can always help with grammar.

Only one man in this world can escape from the restriction of grammar, and I doubt that your name is William Shakespeare who's probably kind of a bit too old to write by now.

As a small sidenote, spelling errors should not exist at all, because a spellchecker is too wonderful nowadays to let spelling errors slip like that.

"Younger pokemon fans?" Well that's probably true as I maybe younger than you by a few months... that I don't know. Perhaps I am just an ignorant little boy who haven't seen what are the true "evils" out there... guess Pokemon MASTER are just fairy tales. Perhaps our definition of "younger pokemon fan" is completely different, and we aren't sharing any common ground here...

One night ago, this forum has already proven itself that a fanfic's success in another website/forum do not gurantee anything whatsoever... do not use the same argument again for it's refuted already.

As for the lighter note, the worst fanfic that I've ever seen is on ffnet where Ash and Misty just pretty much smack together and kissed for no reason in Charicific Valley, while Brock and Liza went to a date somehow for again, no reason... that 100 word fanfic is truly a waste of pixels on my monitor screen.



If you (or any other writers here) doubt my inability to remain focused and unbiased when rating a story, that would be fine by me. True that I can say nothing to defend myself on this one, except to ask those who want a review to have trust and faith in me...

There is an efficient method to truly put your fanfic to the test if you think that this review from me is highly inaccurate and misleading. The method is to somehow find a way for Farla to read over it. Perhaps if you're in luck, she will drop a comment or two about it. Surely though, it won't be as nice as mine...

Iveechan March 7th, 2005 3:42 AM

The worst Pokemon fic I ever read was about James abusing Jessie, who was his wife and then she kills him in the end. There were no Pokemon and they were totally out of character. It was a Lifetime movie, not a Pokemon fic.

Oh wait, scratch that, the WORST fic I ever read was at... some other... forum recently. All the author did was brag about how wonderful her character was, how she was talented at everything and was friends with Lizzie MaGuire and other stupid crap. Omg, I should make a fic where I'm friends with Danny Elfman and I own 400 Pokemon.

Aiya Quackform March 7th, 2005 11:56 AM

Worst fan fic I've ever read? Well, I generally don't read fics that start with a misspelled word, so I can avoid most... Although it would have to be a fic where Ash and ALL of the gang (I mean everyone ever mentioned in the series) got invited to this island crammed with legendaries and shinies and everyone caught ten shiny legendaries. Yuck.

I must, now, mention my absolute favorite fic of all time. It was called "Belzakath the Shadow Blaze: Legend of the Black Mew". That sounds like a long n00b fic, I know, but the girl who wrote it had a true gift. It started out as a well-written trainer fic, but she infused more & more into it. She and her Houndoom could communicate telepathically, and she found that she wasn't the only one who could communicate with a single Pokemon. She could communicate with this guy in her dreams, and she and her Houndour shared their dreams... Now that I type all this out it sounds like total n00b fic, but it really wasn't. Even the best of the one-shots I've read here simply don't compare to that series. Unfortunately, she wanted to re-write the beginning, had her fic deleted with the intention of re-posting it later, and got banned for bad conduct shortly afterwards...

Oh, Frost, I was wondering where I can find this "Pokemon MASTER" fic.

Dragonfree March 7th, 2005 12:02 PM

The score of worst Pokémon fic I've ever read is tied between two. One is about the daughter of Ash and Professor Ivy (who is the author's favorite character) and how perfect she is in every aspect (except grammar). The first chapter contains a HUGE list of all the Pokémon she will catch in the fic - admittedly she then gets starter Pokémon, and after that she battles somebody and turns out to already have two of the Pokémon from the list. The list also includes Groudon, who is her "big teddybear", and Treecko, Torchic and Mudkip that Max gave her as a birthday present because he fell in love with her. (And, um, if she's Ash's daughter, how old is Max?) Biggest Sue EVER.

The other worst fic is called "Ash Becoming a Love Machine", which won an award at The Pokémon Tower. Thankfully I've been told that the author cheated on the awards, but that doesn't make the fic any better. It's badly written, the grammar is bad, the characters are OOC (no, scratch that, they had no personality at all except "OMG CONDOMS!!!11LOLOL!"), it has the most ridiculous sex scenes I've ever seen, it jumps back and forth in time, it changes to IM-style script format randomly in the middle, Ash and Misty get married TWICE during the story (I'm not joking, part two ends with him proposing and her marrying him, and part three, which is supposed to happen before that, also ends with him proposing and her saying yes), the only thing that really happens in parts one and two is that Ash buys "crates" of condoms, the only real plot in it (which is in part three) is an extremely typical Misty-falls-in-love-with-this-guy-and-Ash-becomes-jealous-and-they-battle-and-Misty-realizes-how-much-better-Ash-is-and-cheers-for-him-and-he-wins, and the chapters have absolutely nothing to do with each other. When I'm feeling cruel, I like to go and snicker at it.

Chibi Pika March 7th, 2005 12:58 PM

I must admit, I'm starting to not want to ask Frosty to review my fic. Not because I'd get a low score, but that he'd probably point out some major error in plot that I couldn't explain x.x; The score I wouldn't care about, I know I suck =P

Holy crap, I remember reading the first one Dragonfree mentioned. The worst I ever read was the infamous "new girl in town." Pretty much everyone in the SPPf fic forum saw it; counting all three threads, it got about six full pages of reviews, but it was about a girl who got all the legendaries from her grandma, then got all starters and eeveelutions from Prof. Oak...ect...

~Chibi~

Iveechan March 7th, 2005 1:16 PM

I think that both Dragonfree and Chibi Pika are talking about the same author I was speaking of. Wow. The poor dear is famous for all the wrong reasons.

Funny thing is, once I was getting constructive criticsm (this is before Frosty's reviews), my drive to write went down. No, not because I was throwing tizzy fits, but because I was so worried about making each chapter flawless. Right now I'm extremely stumped on Guilty and I'm worried that some future events I have planned will seem, er, stupid.

Aiya Quackform March 7th, 2005 1:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Iveechan
Funny thing is, once I was getting constructive criticsm (this is before Frosty's reviews), my drive to write went down. No, not because I was throwing tizzy fits, but because I was so worried about making each chapter flawless. Right now I'm extremely stumped on Guilty and I'm worried that some future events I have planned will seem, er, stupid.

Yeah, I know what you're talking about. I used to always be worried that my writing wasn't perfect. But, not too long ago, I came to the conclusion that of course it's not perfect. I'll get reviews that tell me my flaws, it's part of the learning process. It's important to remember why you write. I write because I love it, it's an extension of myself. I have to keep that in mind at all times or I get completely self-conscious of my writing.

Breezy March 7th, 2005 6:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dragonfree
The score of worst Pokémon fic I've ever read is tied between two. One is about the daughter of Ash and Professor Ivy (who is the author's favorite character) and how perfect she is in every aspect (except grammar). The first chapter contains a HUGE list of all the Pokémon she will catch in the fic - admittedly she then gets starter Pokémon, and after that she battles somebody and turns out to already have two of the Pokémon from the list. The list also includes Groudon, who is her "big teddybear", and Treecko, Torchic and Mudkip that Max gave her as a birthday present because he fell in love with her. (And, um, if she's Ash's daughter, how old is Max?) Biggest Sue EVER.

Oh, I know that fic. --; Poor girl wouldn't really listen to the advice we gave her either.

Another fanfic I read that was horrendous (besides mine of course) would be that one fic with the OT catching all the legendaries in less than three chapters and having May fall in love with him. Another would be that one that went to the unknown dungeon yesterday. ;) Rockets blowing up? No way!

Aren't we all worried about constructive criticism? We only want to hear what is good about our fics despite how much we argue that we only want to improve. ;)

Flatulus March 7th, 2005 7:06 PM

Frost, I was just joking, I knew I'd get a bad review from the start (Well I knew I deserved it, most reviewers aren't as honest as you) but I was never writing the story to build up a fan base, I just felt like it would be a good way to use my spare time... of course the fans I do have make it more than worth my while continuing it, though it would be nice if everyone who read it commented on it.

I do intend to improve on the things you pointed out in the future chapters if possible but many mistakes were once off, many others are plot related and it is too late to fix those. Yes, my spelling and grammar is bad, and that improves slightly with the later chapter though it is still far for perfect and it will continue to improve as more chapters are done... Yes, I thought about fixing the mistakes I knew of before you reviewed it but for some reason that felt a little dishonest and I ended up skipping doing that.

To be honest I didn't realise how overuse Ninetales was, and you do have a good point about how that little detail lowers the quality of the whole fic, though on fanfiction.net someone has pointed out how I successfully develop my character's personalities, keeping them quite realistic as well as commenting on how the whole plot seems interesting and different... of course that was just one person and is hardly enough evidence to accuse you of being a bad reviewer, but is was fun to try.

One point you seem to of missed, though that’s understandable since you’ve only read the first chapter, the human is not the protagonist, it is the Ninetales that is… I agree that it wasn’t explained well enough as to how the human began to understand the Ninetales but I intended it to be nothing more than simply adding pokemon language into the poor girl’s head, it is not the ability to do that which makes the Ninetales special (That’s just a minor extension certain capabilities a Ninetales had in the aname series), it is the nerve to actually mess around with someone’s mind without thinking of the consequences for doing so and the fact the Ninetales has a few problems breathing fire.

... Still you should try to get a feel of the whole plot before calling it unoriginal, the Ninetales (Named Kitsune) is trying to take over the world but the difference is how she's doing it a very different way that'll take DECADES (Thus there is no chance of her achieving it in the 50 odd chapters planned) to finish, which is also a way that's more likely to work and she is not doing it for personal gain as she merely thinks humans are doing too much damage and must be stopped.

The story is more about the journey itself than the reason for the journey, focusing on how challenging it is for the Ninetales to stay in control (Being dominant) when the whole world is rigged against that, it is about how the girl fears what could happen if she isn’t careful…

Please note: I am not giving you a link to the site where Lily keeps her none pokemon fics after such a bad review, though I wouldn’t be surprised if you have already either found it for yourself or Lily has just handed it over to you.

Frostweaver March 8th, 2005 1:42 AM

lol... so much for all those PMs that was promising me a beautiful and near-flawless fanfic =p It's dramatic irony looking at those PM and compare them with the message in the fanfic lounge...

It's not dishonest or being unfair about editing your own work! Afterall, that's what reviews are all about in the first place... to encourage editing, and to point out what needs to be edited and improved on.

Err... whoever said that the characters are realistic certainly missed that dialogue belonging to Miss All-Weather that I pointed out earlier XD; It is quite a terribly flawed line... didn't fit the situation overly well. A girl who just realized that a nightmare came true... is certainly not going to say something like that, especially with the calmness in her voice.

The protagonist thing is debatable... I've learned 2 different things about what a protagonist is from 2 different teachers. One says that there can only be one protagonist in a story (ex: Only Tai near the end of Digimon season 1 is the protagonist), while the other teacher says that it can be a group depending on the situation (ex: Tai, Matt, TK and Kari are all protagonists, not just Tai). I personally believe that it can be a group, which to the point of the end of ch.1 points that both Kitsune and Miss All-Weather *will* be protagonists... however, I understand if your english teacher is like my current one, where there can only be ONE protagonist. But notice how you're in a way contradicting yourself by claiming that Kitsune is the protagonist, yet in your 2nd last paragraph you cast Lilac to be the one in the spotlight? ;p

Giving Miss All-Weather the ability to understand Pokemon speech is hardly an act of mind torment... it's not on a severe level enough to be considered a harsh risk of great consequences.

Too bad that his account is defeated and his story will be forever extinct (there goes my true *favorite* Pokemon author ;o; ), but an older writer by the name of Brian on fanfiction.net wrote a brilliant mind torment story of Ash and May... I was reading it at 2 AM and that was terribly unpleasant O_o; scared me half death... I don't remember the name of that particular story now, but it is a terror fanfic that actually consist of no Pokemon, no names mention (you are never told directly the fact that it is Ash and May in the story), and minimum movements (almost scriptfic...) The content and style used to convey the idea of true mind torments... a masterpiece *sniff sniff*

The absense of danger from understanding Pokemon speech (at most it's going to be fright, not so much danger) doesn't support it as an act of mind torment/control.

The idea of a world dominating scheme that last through a year and the idea of a world dominating scheme that last through decades in a fanfic do not differ from each other at all besides the spelling of "year" compare to "decade." Time is infinite and can fly at any pace we want in a fanfic anyway. What difference does that make?

Actually, you just spoke of the common plot... Pokemon fanfics that feature Pokemon as the protagonist ALMOST ALWAYS include Pokemon trying to rebel against human beings in order to save the planet.

-Dragonfree in PC wrote one featuring Absol running away from humans who have betrayed nature.

-Trials of Reluctance featured Archie's *partial* plan with the identical goal. He tried to wipe out the world of humanity along with their "dirty machines" (and you'll notice that a motif featured only by Team Aqua is machines... a very good job done there as it's clear to notice this motif whenever Team Aqua is in play) by plunging it into the sea.

-Pokemon Special manga featured the Elite 4 trying to recreate the world so it is an utopia for Pokemon, by wiping out all the other humans in the world.

-The Pokemon League in Pokemon MASTER also had a similar scheme to destroy humanity to stop their corruption of the land.

-Iveechan's story did not focus on this as the main idea, but partially suggested a similiar theme by portraiting the man whose name should have been Anthony as a pretty much, a drunken brute.

These are only the famous ones on top of my head... certainly there are a ton more of them in other forums and other parts of ffnet.

Actually, an original plot that features Pokemon as the main character actually not acting against humanity, by for humanity against the Pokemon who do want to overthrow humanity's reign... I haven't seen anything like that yet, unless you count Pikachu's role in Mewtwo Strikes Back...

Why read about the process if we are lacking the reason... o.o; Explanations really have to be given early on in the story. It is inadequate to ever say "well it's explained in chapter 987 you know, so read on." Actually, this is one of the only flaws the infamous Pokemon MASTER committed... it never explained what is a Pokemon Master until ch. 8 which is way too late... don't ever rely on the thing about "well it's explained later." It really doesn't work... I tried doing that before in my earlier times of writing ^^; The world really doesn't appreciate that...




As for the note:
- I really can't appreciate those fanfics since I don't know anything about the original anyway... I don't know much about anime/cartoon other than Pokemon. Without knowing the original, how can I ever appreciate the fanfics then?

-If Lily truly wants me to read her other fics, then she'll link me to it herself... I did go to bug her about it and all those kind of stuff that day on MSN, but to just being curious about it is different than being desperate to the point of being rude about it...

And now I forsee someone saying how I really can't take jokes and that everything was just "kidding..." Of course, if there's a secret tone of someone being equally serious and upset too in the posts... shouldn't I be serious about it too, especially if my dearest Lily's name is continously hurled at me as if it's used for ransom of some sort...?

Heh... let's drop it while you're ahead and that I haven't raised my voice yet... though now you did tempt me to do so...

Iveechan March 8th, 2005 1:55 AM

I wrote a fic that was all Pokemon that had nothing to do with rebeling against humans, but it's waaay too inappropriate to post here. And Anthony/Rick is not a drunk. He's just a big jerk.

Dragonfree March 8th, 2005 9:25 AM

Technically, Last Defense, while being about one Pokémon who happened to be abused, emphasizes that this is not how a trainer is supposed to be...

Yamato-san March 8th, 2005 11:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by frostweaver
Why read about the process if we are lacking the reason... o.o; Explanations really have to be given early on in the story. It is inadequate to ever say "well it's explained in chapter 987 you know, so read on." Actually, this is one of the only flaws the infamous Pokemon MASTER committed... it never explained what is a Pokemon Master until ch. 8 which is way too late... don't ever rely on the thing about "well it's explained later." It really doesn't work... I tried doing that before in my earlier times of writing ^^; The world really doesn't appreciate that...

I think there're a couple of flaws in this. For one thing, it's great to keep the readers in suspence, wondering what the reasoning for something is until it's finally explained. For instance, if you have a cool, shadey, mysterious character give us his life story the second he appears, he won't seem so cool and shadey and mysterious, now will he? Also, there're some things that the readers need to find out along with the characters, it can't just be given away in the narration or something because the characters don't know it (ex. Eievui's sudden interest in Hiro).

But if you were just talking about stuff like what the hell this and that is, common things in the fictional world that pretty much need explaining no matter what, then nevermind, I can see your point.

Frostweaver March 8th, 2005 3:08 PM

Fanfics still have its own way to "explain" something that is "unexplained." You'll detect that the tone trails off, or leave hints along the way about something being strange... However, in this case, there are no such hints nor are there tones that suggest such a thing.

Authors have to "tell" the readers that "it'll be explained later" secretly through the usage of tone, syntax and other devices. Authors can't just remain motionless and expects the reader to find out themselves... Authors have to direct their readers. Readers aren't suppose to do any work when readers are reading. The author do them all.

EDIT:

@ Iveechan: Well didn't I say "pretty much" for Anthony? XD;;;

@ Dragonfree: As for Last Defense, the idea of feeling bitter against humans is still suggested (and clearly too.) It is definite that if Absol is given the chance to strike back at humans, she will *consider* it. However, it'll depend on if Absol's bitterness will overpower her moral... still, idea remains the same that humans were the bad guys there.

Strawberry Delcatty March 8th, 2005 4:21 PM

Just wondering out of curiousity... I'm redoing HMW in a narrative format, and I'm wondering whether to post it here or wait until I'm finished with my HMW site (the project seems dead at this point, however). I really want to do it here so I can get some reviews, but if you think I should wait, I will.

Hitoshizuku March 8th, 2005 4:34 PM

Quote:

Too bad that his account is defeated and his story will be forever extinct (there goes my true *favorite* Pokemon author ;o; ), but an older writer by the name of Brian on fanfiction.net wrote a brilliant mind torment story of Ash and May... I was reading it at 2 AM and that was terribly unpleasant O_o; scared me half death... I don't remember the name of that particular story now, but it is a terror fanfic that actually consist of no Pokemon, no names mention (you are never told directly the fact that it is Ash and May in the story), and minimum movements (almost scriptfic...) The content and style used to convey the idea of true mind torments... a masterpiece *sniff sniff*
This Brian?

http://www.fanfiction.net/u/173759/

Hehe, I remember when he was one of the only people on FanFiction.Net who had May in his fics. Gah, I'm old.

Frostweaver March 8th, 2005 4:50 PM

......

......

*immediate rep up* ;________________________________;

Oh my goodness it's Brian again! *rushes there to read*
How come I couldn't find him through author search in ffnet by myself... ;___;

Iveechan March 8th, 2005 5:35 PM

I'm going to refuse to read Pokemon Master out of spite and it seems to be more about humans than Pokemon. Mwahaha.

Flatulus March 8th, 2005 7:00 PM

frostweaver: Now your starting to go into more detail about what makes my fic unoriginal, which is a little more helpful though it's just too bad that the plot can't be changed (Saying that there will be a major plot twist would just ruin the surprise).

It’s nice to see that you picked up on the fact Lilac was acting a little unrealistically in the first chapter, it’s something that the first person to read it should of picked up though you were the first person to really notice. Reading through it again confirmed what you said, though the way you said it caused me some confusion at first since Lilac was not completely calm unlike you implied, also it was not a nightmare coming true, the Ninetales just tricked her into thinking that though that is point where deliberately making it unclear was the best thing to do.
As for her seeming a bit firm: She was a bit nervous and just said how she would prefer things to go, hoping that it would help…

It would be nice for you to read all of my fic and see how I’m improving, but since you’re a reviewer you haven’t got the time and you must of read at least 30 (Probably closer to 200) fics better than it… If you ever start to run out of fics to review I would appreciate it if you reviewed some of the newer chapters, however I would prefer if you just fitted me into the que again but I would suggest you talk to Lily first to see if that’s a good idea.


... Well of course you can't take a joke, those people who can take them well tend to be unable to read through a 2000-word chapter and point out errors better than a fully trained English teacher (Yes, my teacher could pick up a single mistake in it and she’s meant to be the Head of English for my school), that sort of thing demands total seriousness. Now I wouldn’t hold that flaw against you for three reasons: It would be too mean; I also suffer from being unable to take a joke; and Lily would kill me if she found me harassing you.

Rebecca M. Renfield March 9th, 2005 12:37 AM

Chapters One through Five of The Kuraitenshi are currently up.

And thanks again for giving me the fic of the week. :20:

Obsidian Blade March 9th, 2005 10:31 AM

Quote:

How come I couldn't find him through author search in ffnet by myself... ;___;
I call it Annoying Random Number Syndrome. Fanfiction.net did that whole "we cannot have two authors with the same Pen Name" thing a while back so they stuck random numbers onto names... As a result, I've found that sometimes the search fails if you miss out the stooopid number. ><

Quote:

I'm going to refuse to read Pokemon Master out of spite and it seems to be more about humans than Pokemon. Mwahaha.
And here is a comment that will earn me some scowls: I really disliked that fiction. >< Ace is a good writer, better than me by so far that the horizon is in the way, but to call that a Pokemon fiction... He may as well have changed a few names, altered a few Pokemon appearances (not that there are many to alter, eh) and called it original. Blech.

Pidgeot500 March 9th, 2005 2:17 PM

I'd have liked it better if he hadn't used characters from the anime.
...I should work on my fanfic sometime... I'm partway done, and I like it okay so far. Yeah, I'll do that soon. :)

Orange_Flaaffy March 10th, 2005 7:58 AM

I too do not care for a fic if it is all about humans. Unless it has some great factor of pokemon in it, such as, at the very least, the powers of the pokemon themselfs, I find myself skipping over fics: Where you could just as well have the characters have a different name and fit them into any fandom, and fics where romance is the only plot. I love romance novels as much as the next gal who has a collection of them:), but they have to have something beyond the romance to work well...

Iveechan March 10th, 2005 3:49 PM

The only human fics I like are ones by Ilex the Elder on ff.net. "Bound by Silence" almost made me cry. But I just like er because her primary focus are the adult characters, Professor Oak and Delia.

Strawberry Delcatty March 10th, 2005 4:17 PM

Well, I've got the first two chapters of my revision of HMW. Please read and review. Thank you-nya! *purrs*

IceKing March 10th, 2005 4:57 PM

Hi I just joined these forums for the fanfiction board. Im going to try and review as many fics as I can. If you dont have many reviewers please feel free to PM and I will review your fic. I know that it sucks to post into thin air.

Many of these fics seem to be good. I heard somewhere that you guys get mad when trainer fics dont follow unoriginality, but I don't believe it. I saw some posts about worst fanfic ever. Im going to agree with Chibi Pika on New girl in town *shudders* and also "story" about a guy who isntantly catches rayqauza, then beats ash withotu even trying, then catches about 24 pokemon by simply throwing his pokeballs at him, and then he gives May a celebi and they fall in love. Wow

Anyway, I posted my first fic here. Its called Whirl Island Adventures and I have it on Serebii too. It starts out looking all normal, boring trainer fic, but as the chapters progress you realize that it is very twisted (in terms of humor) Join Brian the badge collector (similar to oragne islands) Julie the soul searcher and Greg the big idiot who everyone loves who wants to be in the Whirl Cup so he can meet the girl of his dreams, Misty

Breezy March 10th, 2005 7:54 PM

Well, um, I updated an lettter off compaint!!! ^_^ It's a parody on n00b fics AND their reviewers mind you. :P

Frostweaver March 10th, 2005 9:19 PM

Personally, I consider Pokemon MASTER to be *very* "Pokemon." Afterall, why is it not Pokemon? Pokemon is in it unlike some other well known romance "Pokemon" fanfic. The world of Pokemon is used unlike all the alternate universe Pokemon fanfic. Characters are from the Pokemon series as well unlike many other fanfics. Characters (or shall I say, all but 2 actually) are very intact with their original, younger self in the anime as well. With such strong supporting evidence, how can anyone say that it's not Pokemon enough? Is it just because it doesn't feature some young teenagers going off on a journey to become the Pokemon Champion? =o?

Either the characters, or the Pokemon+Pokemon world have to be in the fiction to be considered a "Pokemon fanfic." As long as either of these requirements are fulfilled, then it's a Pokemon fanfic.


Should be able to get a few fanfics done on Saturday. Tonight i have to study Macbeth and tomorrow I have church + chinese school studying ^^; Sorry~!

Orange_Flaaffy March 11th, 2005 6:48 PM

Oh don't worry, I myself was not putting down Pokemon Master in any way. As I have never read it, and do not care for dark fics as a rule, that would be silly of me. I was however speaking in a more overall way. In any fandom, if you do not put enough of the world of what you are a fan of (in this case, Pokemon) into your story you might just as well be writing a totally self made work and trying to sell it to a publisher. Which is not a bad thing, it just does not in my opition make for good fanfic if you could change the names Ash and Misty to something like Bill and Holly, cut out all the pokemon elements, and have no one be the wiser for it...But then, that is a keeping characters in character rant for another day...

rubyrulez March 11th, 2005 8:37 PM

Well, I put up chapter 13 of Lento Legends! Please, please don't be shy! Leave me a review. Good or Bad, it's cool! :)

Strawberry Delcatty March 12th, 2005 1:45 AM

More of the revised HMW is up. (Chapter 3)
I'll be checking out more of Whirl Island Adventures ASAP.

Geometric-sama March 12th, 2005 4:34 AM

@ IceKing: If you want fics to review feel free to review mine, links in sig XD

Frostweaver March 12th, 2005 2:21 PM

@ Into the Mud

-well yes Machoke was the instrument of the "evil trainer" (antagonist) so of course Machoke appears to be evil too... but then again, it's only reasonable to send out a fighting type against a dark type

-not much to say, except this one thing about sentence structure. The most important ideas *always* come at the very end, so always try to arrange your sentence so that the keyword or at least the main idea is introduced last in a sentence. Not too much of a problem though...

-another minor problem is that I really don't see much significance in "mud" which didn't even appear frequent enough to be motif, nor is it important enough to be the title... titles should really be reflective on the major ideas in the fanfic, or named after an important character in the story...

Quote:

I remember, I dream
-quite debatable just what is this suggestive quote suggesting... is it talking about the idea of memory/dreams, or hallucinations? No idea... a bit vague and possibly confuses your readers at the moment...

-another problem is possibly originality... besides the dramatic rescue that makes it plausible for the possibility of a sequel, this idea has been done many times... Obsidian Blade in fact has a *very* similar story, with the only difference being a human girl that's running away instead of a Pokemon. Of course, there's always Dragonfree's that talk of Pokemon trying to run away from human trainer's captures...

-the only thing that is preventing this fanfic from getting into the Standards of Excellence is the absence of well planned story structure or the usage of various devices in order to strengthen the story's main ideas (themes) and coherence. Though the story is absolutely flawless (to me at least) in terms of grammar and all but one line is very easy to understand, this can only atmost make this fanfic a good fanfic, yet not enough to be an "excellent" one... But only writing experiences, continous reading and endless repetition of practices can help you understand what else is needed in order to break through the line of a "good" fanfic into an "excellent" one...

Good Points
-flawless grammar
-very readible, easy to understand
-well constructed story, a strong basis of fluent writing skills is shown

Focuses to Improve on
-a more suitable title
-placing the most important ideas last
-further work on the development on main idea(s)

Grammar Basics: 10/10
Characterization: 18/20
Coherence/Readability: 10/10
Tone/Structure: 16/20
Diction: 17/20
Effort/Originality: 16/20
Lit. Device bonus: +0


Total: 87

<><><>

As well, the first chapter analysis for "Trials of Reluctance" is complete! I'll try to pull off hopefully one chapter analysis every 2 to 3 days... some chapters can have so much to comment about, which suggests just how resourceful and how much every writer can learn from this brilliant fanfic ^__^

Check the "Example of a good fanfic- Complete Analysis" sticky thread now!

Aiya Quackform March 12th, 2005 7:33 PM

OMGAWD AN 87!?!?!?! *is walking on air* Thanks for the review, Frost. I have had comments from another excellent reviewer that there wasn't much of an actual conflict & resolution, as you pointed out. I have been working on that in my more recent stories.

While I do understand your point on my title, allow me to explain it. When I say "Into The Mud", I don't mean physically; I mean emotionally. He is cast from emotional sunlight into emotional mud, which is reflected in what happens physically.

Anyway, I thank you very much for your fair, and TOTALLY EXCELLENT review. (Maybe I'll do a rewrite someday and go for 'Standard of Excellence'. ^_~)

Oh, hey, here's a question for the great all-grammar-knowing Frostweaver: When a sentence ends with a title in quotation marks, is the period inside or outside the marks? I'm not talking about dialogue. You know, "Into The Mud." or "Into The Mud". I think it's the second one, but just asking.

Frostweaver March 12th, 2005 8:02 PM

You want "Into the Mud." Punctuations within the quotation marks, please. Same thing applies to the brackets.

Well I never mentioned that this story is lacking conflict/resolution, as that'll be marking the plot which a reviewer should never do. There is a conflict which is Poochyena against the human world, and not every story needs a resolution (but if you must define one, then Ninetales's rescue can be the resolution, i suppose.) The problem is that it's just lacking overall support of your main theme, and strengthening the fanfic through more coherent support in various parts of the story.

As for the "mud," well mud is not something we address the state of mind with. Rain is the usual element to address a depressed mind. Though it's always nice to try to be creative in our metaphorical language, but then the culture of English always have some invisible set of rules in terms of how far originality can go. Sometimes you read something, and grammatically it is correct, yet deep within the sentence just sounds "wrong." These kind of things are usually improper usage of a word in context, which is probably the case with "mud" here. I kind of understand what you're saying, regarding why you decide to use "mud" to symbolize Poochyena's state of mind. But, how do we get mud? Mixing water with soil... which comes from the rain... so I'll guess that's how you got "mud" but then rain is just the better choice even though it's a lot more common and unoriginal...

Certainly there must be other metaphors we can use to describe a depressed mind filled with angst... Personally, i'll aim for "filthy air" rather than mud... personally, I think that it's quite an easy symbol to work around with, and it should work in place of mud rather nicely... so that'll be my suggestion.

I'm glad that you liked the review, even though I didn't say much and Flatulus just told me awhile ago that I wasn't close to being specific enough in my reviews ^^;

Aiya Quackform March 12th, 2005 8:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by frostweaver
You want "Into the Mud." Punctuations within the quotation marks, please. Same thing applies to the brackets.
Thank you, almighty Frostweaver.

Well I never mentioned that this story is lacking conflict/resolution, as that'll be marking the plot which a reviewer should never do. There is a conflict which is Poochyena against the human world, and not every story needs a resolution (but if you must define one, then Ninetales's rescue can be the resolution, i suppose.) The problem is that it's just lacking overall support of your main theme, and strengthening the fanfic through more coherent support in various parts of the story.
Thanks for that clarification. The reviewer I mentioned before said conflict/resolution, but I think that what you just said is what he meant.

As for the "mud," well mud is not something we address the state of mind with. Rain is the usual element to address a depressed mind. Though it's always nice to try to be creative in our metaphorical language, but then the culture of English always have some invisible set of rules in terms of how far originality can go. Sometimes you read something, and grammatically it is correct, yet deep within the sentence just sounds "wrong." These kind of things are usually improper usage of a word in context, which is probably the case with "mud" here. I kind of understand what you're saying, regarding why you decide to use "mud" to symbolize Poochyena's state of mind. But, how do we get mud? Mixing water with soil... which comes from the rain... so I'll guess that's how you got "mud" but then rain is just the better choice even though it's a lot more common and unoriginal...

Certainly there must be other metaphors we can use to describe a depressed mind filled with angst... Personally, i'll aim for "filthy air" rather than mud... personally, I think that it's quite an easy symbol to work around with, and it should work in place of mud rather nicely... so that'll be my suggestion.
Okay, that makes more sense, too. Perhaps the rewrite can have a rewritten title, as well... *will get to that rewrite as soon as redemption-themed fic is done, and is caught up on writing "Drop"*

I'm glad that you liked the review, even though I didn't say much and Flatulus just told me awhile ago that I wasn't close to being specific enough in my reviews ^^;
Well, you're a busy person. It's understandable.

Well, now that I have your attention, could you tell me where I can find a copy of this "Pokemon MASTER?"

Dragonfree March 12th, 2005 8:44 PM

Actually, the period would go inside the quotations in America, but not in England... according to one website, at least.

Breezy March 12th, 2005 10:36 PM

Really? Punctuation goes INSIDE things like parenthesis and brackets for proper American English? Then I've been doing punctuation wrong my entire life. I thought that was the only thing I had nailed down (obviously not anymore) ... I suppose it is true that England doesn't put periods inside parenthesis and brackets since I learned most of my punctuation from Harry Potter. o0

That also explains why some writers put their periods outside quotations marks ... Of course it was dialouge when I pointed it out though.

Chibi Pika March 12th, 2005 11:18 PM

Quote:

Actually, the period would go inside the quotations in America, but not in England... according to one website, at least.
Oh crap...I beta for this one guy who lives in England and I changed all of the periods to inside the quotes because that's what I had learned. I'm sure he probably was wondering why on earth I did that, while at the same time I wondered why he had all the quotes/periods "wrong." XP

~Chibi~

Aiya Quackform March 12th, 2005 11:30 PM

No wonder English readers have such a problem with American writers. :/ From now on I'll have to take that into consideration when beta reading/reviewing.

Frostweaver March 12th, 2005 11:47 PM

Well besides for a few key words like "gael" and "jail," I think that English readers and American readers can understand each other... cause really, although the punctuation is in the "wrong side" of the bracket/quotation marks, I believe that we can still understand what the other is trying to say ^^;

Geometric-sama March 13th, 2005 4:06 AM

Cool, I'm finally up on the waiting list~ *loves Frosty's reviews* XD

Dragonfree March 13th, 2005 6:25 AM

Of course, the punctuation for dialogue always goes inside the quotation marks... I believe the rule in England is that if you start the sentence inside quotation marks/parenthesis, you put the punctuation inside, too. So:

England/America:
"I heard you wrote fanfiction," somebody asks.

England:
I think my best fic is "Sunset Beach".
America:
I think my best fic is "Sunset Beach."

England:
It's probably my best work (especially considering when I wrote it).
America:
It's probably my best work (especially considering when I wrote it.)

England/America:
You might want to read it. (If you don't like depressing stories, though, you probably shouldn't.)

Ph33r the punctuation-ness (free shameless plugging for my fic isn't bad, either ;)). I think the English way makes more sense, personally, so that's how I do it.

Mr Cat Dog March 13th, 2005 7:00 AM

Yeah, I've always done it the English way (cause I'm from England XD), and to me, it makes more sense than the US way. Anyways, to all those reading: REVIEW MY NEW FIC!!! It's called The Unown Ones, and should still be on the first page... so go on. Read please ^_^

IceKing March 13th, 2005 1:11 PM

I have a question. How do you make a poll for your thread if you already posted in it?

Mr Cat Dog March 13th, 2005 1:20 PM

Go to Thread Tools, then Add a Poll to this thread. ^_^

Geometric-sama March 13th, 2005 3:11 PM

In Australia we seem to have a combination then -_- I think. But we didn't do too much grammar after about grade 4 at school. I got more English grammar in German than in English~

Whisper in the Wind March 14th, 2005 6:29 AM

Well, I've chanegd my name from Onimusha to Whisper in the Wind and I updated" The Power Within" as Onimusha with my 3rd chap (and probs last).

I'm feeling uninspired etc, anyway, this post is mainly to keep you guys on the up n up that I've changed my name

yoshi1001 March 14th, 2005 9:26 AM

My fanfiction, How Pokemon Really Works is now on the forum. It's both thought provoking and considered one of the funniest fictions ever. I've also included an annotated version that includes references.

Casual Billy March 14th, 2005 1:26 PM

Hey, I'm new here too and my fic is called Worlds Away. I'd appreciate anyone who'd take the time to read it. I think you all will enjoy the plot especially as it progresses in later chapters. Don't be fooled by the first chapter though, the fic gets pretty exciting as the story progresses and maintains a level of action throughout.

Frostweaver March 14th, 2005 2:08 PM

Just feel like doing something general that should help any writers to get more reviews and comments... really it's a bit of a shame is good writers aren't getting as much reviews as s/he deserves just because they're lacking experience in the proper methods of advertisements.

Basic Rule of Fanfic Advertisements:

1) Catchy, hopefully original title
-in PC, the only thing readers will see about your fanfic without clicking it is the title and the author's name... Title is the only form of advertisement without reading through the ads in the fanfic lounge here

2) Do not say "The story will be better later"
-sadly, this is such a commonly used ads but is actually a no-brainer line... no offense that I'm blunt of course. I use to do that but then I realize "hey wait a second..." XD; If the story *will* be better later, then how come the story can't be at its very best *now?* Either something is wrong with the story, or something is wrong with the advertisement

3) State your achievements!
-If the fanfic has won any kind of an award, do brag about that! People will come to see what's so good about it. Just don't expect that it is a gurantee the fanfic will be popular anywhere else if you've won something in one forum.

4) Ask for Reviewers' help directly
-Instead of just saying "please review my story" in some general areas, do go on the active approach and contact reviewers to review your fanfic with PMs or emails. There's plenty of reviewers in PC. Lily, Icekind and I do reviews, and there's possibly other people that I missed. Just keep an eye out for these reviewers by looking at their sigs or profiles, and actively contact them to give you a review (and don't ever be too shy to ask more than 1 reviewers at a time! In fact, more the better)

5) Review other's work
-establish a reputation in any forum/ffnet by frequently reading others so people will get to know you, and eventually they'll come to read your fanfics as well. The more well known you are, the easier readers pay attention to a fanfic made by you, because they know you.

Natsuki March 14th, 2005 4:46 PM

Fanfiction Lounge
 
All right everyone, I have gotten some pretty good feedback from a few people in the thread I posted in CQ&F as well as a few through a PM. ^^ So now I'm gonna take a shot at this and we'll see how things turn out. ^_____^

All right, this is the Other Writing Fan Fiction Lounge. ^^ This lounge is quite similar to the one in Pokemon Fan Fiction. Here you can do various Other Writing-related things (But ONLY Other Writing-related things.). These include:

-A place to chat about current fan fictions/poetry in OW.
-Can discuss current chapters and/or up-coming chapters.
-Can ask for advice from members for fan fics/poems.
-Can sit back and relax and chat about favorite fan fics/poetry etc. in OW.

All right, sound good? Good. XD BUT! (Dun dun duuuuuuun...) There are rules that must be applied! O.O

Rules and Stuff

-Please keep all un-Other Writing related topics away from here! XD
So basically, don't come in here and say things like "Ooooh, how was everyone's day? I went outside and...". This isn't the DCC. XD

-No SPAM.
Duh. XD But keep to the topic at hand, and DO NOT post here saying "Ooooh, good idea Kelsey!!11oneone" I know it was a good idea, you don't have to tell me about it. XD Any posts like these seen in the Lounge shall be deleted, so fear my wrath. >=D

-Fweeeee, have fun! ^^
Well guys, this is always my favorite rule. ^___^ This Lounge is for all aspiring authors to come and learn about how to become better writers, but to also hang out and chat about their owns works etc. etc. ^^ So have fun! =D

(NOTE: This Lounge may not become super active for a while, but it shall remain open for all eternity! Muahahahahaa! o.O)

~Kelsey

MegaDitto March 14th, 2005 4:48 PM

I see great things for this thread.Lets begin.

Anacortes March 14th, 2005 4:51 PM

Okay, which fan-fic do you think is best? Meh, I can't think of no topic. Help me. o.0

Natsuki March 14th, 2005 4:52 PM

All right, I'll start us off. ^____^ Well, as most of you know, I have a fan fiction titles Kaliagrah's Curse. ^^ It is currently into chapter seven. ^^ I'm working on the next chapter so it shall be posted soon! =D

~Kelsey


EDIT: Well, my favorite fan fic? I have to say I've loved all the ones I've read so far. ^___^ I'm really starting to favor She-Wolf by Wolf_Goddess, it's coming along quite nicely. ^^

MegaDitto March 14th, 2005 4:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anacortes
Okay, which fan-fic do you think is best? Meh, I can't think of no topic. Help me. o.0

How about a roamce story about two people like Romeo and Juliet.

Anacortes March 14th, 2005 4:58 PM

That's nice, but nobody has made one so far, have they? Maybe you can do that, MegaDitto!

As for my favourite, is "Revelations from the grave", by Shadow of Ash.

MegaDitto March 14th, 2005 5:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anacortes
That's nice, but nobody has made one so far, have they? Maybe you can do that, MegaDitto!

As for my favourite, is "Revelations from the grave", by Shadow of Ash.

I suck at stories.But I would stay to help.SOA made a horror story so make one like about a curse or something like the Ring.

Anacortes March 14th, 2005 5:05 PM

I think I'll do just great with one at a time. Give a try, I'm sure your results will turn out better than you expected!

Natsuki March 14th, 2005 5:07 PM

You know what I want to see? I want Claire to make a fan fic. XD She's always raving on how awsome everyone else's are when I'm sure she'd be perfectly capable of writing a great fic. ^^

Well, Metto, I think you can make a fine fan fic if you really work at it. ^^ Remember, I'm always here for help and advice if ya need it. ^.~ That's mainly why I was modded here in the first place. XD

~Kelsey

MegaDitto March 14th, 2005 5:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mori Seirei
You know what I want to see? I want Claire to make a fan fic. XD She's always raving on how awsome everyone else's are when I'm sure she'd be perfectly capable of writing a great fic. ^^

Well, Metto, I think you can make a fine fan fic if you really work at it. ^^ Remember, I'm always here for help and advice if ya need it. ^.~ That's mainly why I was modded here in the first place. XD

~Kelsey

Its not that.I like potery better ^__^.I hope the story goes great Sissi.I am lookinf forward to it.

Anacortes March 14th, 2005 5:11 PM

What story? If ya ask me, I beat Mori Seirei in making the seventh chapter. Of course if I was that slow the thread'd probably die. o.0
Claire make a fan-fic? That'd be cool, but not possible.

oni flygon March 14th, 2005 5:13 PM

...now you guys have a Fanfiction Lounge... O__o;;

I wonder who will be the Frostweaver of this fanfiction lounge... >X3

MegaDitto March 14th, 2005 5:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oni flygon
...now you guys have a Fanfiction Lounge... O__o;;

I wonder who will be the Frostweaver of this fanfiction lounge... >X3

Oh Oh.I can take that job.But who is he.

oni flygon March 14th, 2005 5:14 PM

Oh just check out the fanfiction lounge there...
"His critics are basically an icy stab towards any amateur writer's chest..."
I don't think anyone could be like him... talented in criticizing... =D

Anacortes March 14th, 2005 5:15 PM

He was an ex-mod I think..
Okay, you're hired. Wait a minute..*goes to call Mori Seirei*

oni flygon March 14th, 2005 5:16 PM

Hiring critics? I though everyone has the freedom to be a critic here... XD
Besides, critics have to be good writers... and when I mean good, I mean good writers... *points at a bunch of writers that had their names in the Fanfiction of the Week*

Anacortes March 14th, 2005 5:18 PM

I'd do bad being one, that's for sure. You'd do great.
Yeah, nice idea. Whoever thinks they're good enough just step up and take over.

Natsuki March 14th, 2005 5:18 PM

What's all this jazz about frosty? No one's gonna be the major critic in here. XD We all help each other with writings. ^____^ Teamwork is much better than listening to the opinions of one writer's thoughts. XD That, my friends, will get you no where. ^.~

~Kelsey

oni flygon March 14th, 2005 5:19 PM

I'm a mediocre writer... I'm really not good with English anyways... =.=

Natsuki March 14th, 2005 5:20 PM

Now now, Niko! I've seen your poetry and you know how much I adore it. <3<3 Besides, when's your next great piece coming out? I crave more! ^o^

~Kelsey

oni flygon March 14th, 2005 5:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mori Seirei
Now now, Niko! I've seen your poetry and you know how much I adore it. <3<3 Besides, when's your next great piece coming out? I crave more! ^o^

~Kelsey

I'm kinda working on it... >.>;;
I'm just taking a break from this horrid English essay...

Lily March 14th, 2005 5:44 PM

We love you, Niko.

[/random] 8) squee

This sounds like a splendid idea~ if it worked for the Pokemon ff, it'll work here in OW. XD

Morkula March 14th, 2005 5:54 PM

Well, I've started working on my LOTR fic again, so I'm going to be posting it up here. I put up the first three chapters yesterday, and I might work on Chapter 4 tonight if I have the chance.
My problem's description- no matter how hard I try, I just can't seem to put enough into my writing. Pretty much anyone who's ever read my writing has said that. =/

Frostweaver March 14th, 2005 6:14 PM

@ Ties of Water and Fire

-err... the lady just gave birth and the man is twirling her around O.o; I feel so sorry for her... (minor thing... just against common sense)

-porcelaineous is the adjective, and porcelain is only the noun... be careful to use the right form of your words

Quote:

he cried in a voice filled with anguish, in a voice of a man that had everything and lost it.
-semicolon should be used in place of the comma here

-the poetic prophecy is really stretched right now in terms of its rhythm... poems do not necessarily have to rhyme, but they (almost always unless you're famous enough to start breaking rules) must have a certain rhythm... at least try to have roughly the same amount of syllables in certain rhythm scheme

-parts of the prophecy is contradicting each other... bringing the end of the age as well as "turning out right" so that needs a little tweaking...

-"sweetheart" isn't the most appropriate tone and diction used for married couples. Sweetheart got a "younger" connotation to it.

-Kyogre not Kyorge... though really Kyogre is not an ogre at all (bad translation on 4Kids part)

-seems like ch.2 is a bit rushed... we hardly know anything, and 1 of our 2 protagonists is already presented with the major conflict already... certainly can't we use some time to develop a bit more character traits first? The earlier part about how the other Aqua members are insulting Yoshiko is an excellent opportunity to be expanded in order to include a bit of background to Yoshiko and her character

-don't suddenly use 2nd person words... use "one" in order to stay 3rd person view

-Yoshiko's thoughts should switch to 1st person because it's her thoughts... if her thoughts include thinking about herself, then it should use 1st person

-the girls are twins, but one is sixteen and the other is seventeen...? Err...

-details are definitely missing with just how Maxie is going to train Yoshie... what is happening? That can certainly be expanded...

-how did the girls suddenly understand how to control the orb, or how to use the orb at all? Not once did the story talked about this fact, nor did the 2 characters ever questioned about it, which is exceedingly strange...

-currently, Maxie and Archie are trait-less characters, which really need to be changed... hopefully we'll know more about them as soon as possible.

Good Points
-usage of poetry
-prequel successfully draws readers' attention

Focuses to Improve On
-character development
-further expansion of events and details
-story structure: focus more on the how and why

Grammar Basics: 9/10
Characterization: 12/20
Coherence/Readability: 10/10
Tone/Structure: 12/20
Diction: 13/20
Effort/Originality: 16/20
Lit. Device bonus: +1 (poetry)


Total: 73


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